Bit of an incident last Sunday at Shearwater, with someone being dragged about 500m by a kite in a death loop. Being involved (my kite!) I'm venting to get this out of my system, and hopefully make a few locals think.
I first started/tried the sport less than a month ago, and have been out with the kite 4 times prior in total. Still very much a beginner - I'm at the stage where I can usually get up on the board, but will only last for up to 15 seconds before coming off, sometimes with the kite ending in the water. I always end up downwind - had already done the walk of shame up the beach about 5 times that day. I am very familiar with the safety systems of my kite/bar, when they should be used, and had practised them several times.
Anyway, I'm up on the board for a little but end up getting too much speed. I bail from the board and get dragged a bit before ending up with myself, my kite and my lines in the drink. Yep, I did say I was a beginner.... Not far behind me and a little downwind a gal realises she is about to cross where my lines must be, so bails also. Ends up in the water in front of me. I can't see my lines which are still in the choppy water, but after a few seconds it is clear they are tangled in some way so I pull my safety release. A nearby bloke boards past calling out to pull our saftey release. I already had, but my bar hadn't moved out far like expected - already tangled.
The gal was trying to release herself. My kite was starting to get some more air in it, so at the urging of the nearby bloke I completely disconnected. She continued to get pulled downwind, while I swam to shore. My kite starts doing loops just out of the water. She gets dragged through the water at high speed. All 4 of the lines to her kite snap, even though its mine doing most of the dragging. I'm on the beach by now with other people trying to see her in the distance - the canals stop us following more closely. Down near some boats we finally spot her swimming to shore.
I'm completely shaken/shocked myself at what is going on (I know what its like to get dragged just a short distance), but take the car to see what I can find. Can't find anyone or anything, but then my wife calls to tell me someone else had pickup her and the two kites and was back there.
My first thing when back is to check with the gal, and thankfully she is unhurt. Very shocked/shaken, having thought she was going to drown. Then turned to the gear which was an absolute tangled mess. The gals partner is furious (his gear) and just wants to throw it all in the bin. So my father and I spend 20-30 minutes untangling it all ourselves - their stuff and mine. Their 4 lines are snapped. My bar is damaged in several ways, and plastic tubing wrecked.
He says it's all my fault and wants me to replace his lines and bar. Tells me the lines can't be replace by themselves - its all one thing, which I know is garbage. I'm not sure that I am responsible for what happened, but I feel bad for the girl and offer to replace his lines only. That's not good enough for him though. There are thinly veiled threats of physical violence against me (I'm very pissed, really really angry that you did this - you are lucky your family is here etc).
A couple of guys come over, one a local instructor (surf fx?), and whilst polite they tell me the etiquette is that I replace his lines. Which I had already agreed to do early on.... He seems to accept their advice, and settles a little, so we exchange phone numbers.
I still didn't really understand why I had to pay for their repairs (and my damage as well) given she didn't pull her safety release (or it failed), but felt bad about what she went through so Monday (next day) I end up giving my credit card details to a reputable shop to cover almost a few hundred bucks worth of equipment. Afterwards the shop guys asks what happened, and I explained, to which he responded that beginners have right of way over experienced riders (she'd been kiting for 2-3 years)!
I was considering if I'd even continue participating in a sport where usual beginner mistakes can end with you 'owing' heaps to others. It has been a relief to know that I was not at fault, and I don't know why this was not mentioned by anyone else. It would have been plain obvious to everyone watching that I was a beginner.
I've learnt that kite lines are bloody expensive, and that I should listen to my instinct more and stand up for myself. Hopefully the girl has lean't more about her safety systems. So I will be returning there (it is the closest/best spot for me to learn) and whilst I will take all reasonable care (don't want another incident), you might want to keep well clear of me as I certainly won't be replacing anyones equipment if things go pear shaped again. Most of the locals there are friendly people - they have helped a couple of times with pointing where my board is when I'm recovering it, and even recovering it for me once - however the clear and unambiguous message directed at me was simply incorrect. Hopefully they can learn something out of this too.
You've been had. If you were already down and the girl kited into your lines then it's her fault. Boyfriend sounds like a bully and a wanker. Plenty of those in the sport.
Too late now unfortunately. Live and learn mate.
I feel from what I have read... the blame is on her.. If someone drops a kite in my path, I will just tack back or go downwind of kite.
You are very generous, I would have paid nothing to the guy.
Cheers for you.
Yea. By what you are saying it was def her fault ......beginners are easy to see and are to be given a wide birth. Now if she was in the water and you rode into her lines , well thats a different story...
It's hard for anyone to make any definite statements based on your description, not knowing the area and the conditions on the day, but if she was aware of her surroundings she should have avoided bailing right on top of your lines. eg:
not following too closely in the first place - anyone
recognising you're a beginner - keeping extra distance
watching someone upwind & ahead of you closely & take appropriate action (tack immediately at first sign of trouble etc)
not panicking when she finally noticed: continuing to ride across your lines, or jumping clear, or quickly tacking. Anything but stopping on top of them.
Once she managed to get tangled in your lines, doesn't pull safety.
What happened suggests she's also a beginner or acts like one despite the 2-3 years kiting..
What and absolute mess cluste**** that's the reason why I learn from day dot to kite of the beach instead of overcrowded flat water spots.
If your kite was down. She should have either tacked back the other way, or kited downwind of you.
It's like driving into a parked car, and saying it's the parked cars fault!
Distance between kiters has played a big part of this total shamozzle.
People should stay away from learners as they are unpredictable and will drop a kite without warning. Especially when they hit Mach 3 flatboarding in a straight line and don't know how to stop by edging.
Next time stand up for yourself and grow a set.. Don't be intimidated.. If he punches you, report it to the police after taking his rego down.
Alternatively back yourself and get in early with a straight jab if you think he's looking for action. Or another option if things are going pear shaped is to pick up your board and shove the end of it in his face and scream 'BANZAI' at the top of your lungs. This will show him who's boss and snap him out of his attitude.
Hope you learned a lesson from this and don't let it put you off kiting.
Shame that your polite and accomodating approach was ignored. The civilised approach among intelligent people would have been to settle halfway i.e. to perhaps share costs which in this case would mean everyone pays for their own damage. If anything. With regards to who's fault it was the others have already answered it pretty well. Any experienced kiter will be able to identify a beginner and stay away or avoid them last minute. Plus if a collision happens pulling the safety is common sense. Best is probably to coordinate this i.e. communicate to the other person that you are going to pull the safety so the other one can do the same pretty much at the same time. If only one releases the risk for the other tangled person can be higher. But after 2-3 years she should have known that ejecting is a good idea in this situation.
Select to expand quoteRPM said..
Distance between kiters has played a big part of this total shamozzle.
People should stay away from learners as they are unpredictable and will drop a kite without warning. Especially when they hit Mach 3 flatboarding in a straight line and don't know how to stop by edging.
Next time stand up for yourself and grow a set.. Don't be intimidated.. If he punches you, report it to the police after taking his rego down.
Alternatively back yourself and get in early with a straight jab if you think he's looking for action. Or another option if things are going pear shaped is to pick up your board and shove the end of it in his face and scream 'BANZAI' at the top of your lungs. This will show him who's boss and snap him out of his attitude.
Hope you learned a lesson from this and don't let it put you off kiting.
a true diamond in the rough off rpms posts lol
Next time before u aknowlage anything, ask the bully WHY should u repair his equipment. I still can't see why u should pay. Make him give u a reason. Since he even wasn't there possibly, nor in the accident, he should have been silent. It's between u and her.
Dave said its hard to judge like this with practically no info and i agree, but! If your statement is accurate, i see no reason for u to repair his lines. She should actually cover your loss. Even if conditions were bad and both u and her couldn't do nothing (and i ain't saying they were), it's an accident and both of u should cover your own expenses.
I see this as me aligning the lines on the beach before takeoff, and some dude sees what am i doing and just walks/skates (gust or intentionally) over the lines, leaving them tangled/cut off, and then asking me to fix his slipper back on the foot/buy him a new fin.
Her starting fault was not keeping the distance. I bet she will never again surf close to another noob or pro kiter.
Don't get fooled next time, and if u get scared again like that, call the police. Don't even hesitate.
If you dropped your kite and the woman crashed into them instantly. Then ok I'd suggest replacing the lines is a good thing to do.
However if 5-10 seconds passed and she crashes into your kite. I suggest it is here fault.
Good point - if you tomahawked your kite right in front of her while she was going full speed not giving her time to stop/tack, then yes, it is your fault. However if your kite was in the water well before she crossed your path/lines she should've stopped/tacked.
Select to expand quotekiteboy dave said..
.......
What happened suggests she's also a beginner or acts like one despite the 2-3 years kiting..
I think kiteboy dave has it spot on. She didn't have much time to take avoidance action - probably only a skilled/experienced rider would have avoided me (as opposed to an intermediate). About 10m behind me (probably about 2 seconds?) from my kite being in the water is my estimate. Too close to start with. I would not have expected anything from her, but also should have not been bullied into coughing up dough myself. As kkiter said at the start, live and learn.
markus86, I'm very curious as to how you did that. I presume you mean out past the breaks. I love the surf and my end goal is to kite in it, but it doesn't seem like an appropriate learning place. The breaks around the gold coast are usually significant - how do you get out past them to start with, when still learning board skills? Would also want someone keeping an eye on me when that far out. Whilst the flat water spots have major disadvantages, as highlighted amply by this incident, there are also some safety benefits in being around other kiters.
Since she didn't have time to get out of the way i think you did the right thing by replacing the lines.
I suggest you find a less busy spot. As suggested your better getting washed in by a few waves in a quiet spot than dancing bewteen people. Get to the ocean and give it a go. The waves i've seen when i've been on the gold coast are pissant. Get amongst it.
You can always body drag out past them on a cross on day.
you nearly killed someone by completely releaseing your kite and your crying about paying a few hundred bucks for lines and are threatening everyone that next time you nearly kill someone you wont be compensating there damages.
get some more lessons before you end up in jail
To me that sounds scary as ****.
Definitely believe there’s two sides to the story, but you did the right thing st11 by remaining calm and offering to help. Doesn’t sound to me at all like you should be paying for anything though. It’s always good to give people lots of room and to avoid riding under or in the path of people’s kites.
What worries me in this situation is the very real risk of lines getting wrapped around body parts…! If I was her I’d have the hook knife ready to slice your lines!!
I’d be thinking in this situation you probably shouldn’t have released your second safety so quickly. If your kite is down and you release your first safety, it’s normal for the bar not to quickly move away from you – this only happens when there’s some air/power in the kite. Best bet is to push your first safety, ensure you’re only connected by your leash and gently swim back a little bit (being careful of all your other lines). Eventually the kite will drift forward far enough, and the bar will start to move away from you, leaving you only connected by your leash.
This could have helped, as the only line in tension would have been the safety line, so although the other girl may have been tangled, your kite shouldn’t power up (although I’d definitely be keeping my hand on the second safety). By releasing your kite completely you took all tension off the safety line, and it sounds like she was caught somehow on one of your backlines, which caused the kite to loop – very nasty situation.
Sounds like a scary event.
Firstly, I just love the attitude from some - "Its everyone else's fault" - and unfortunately it's in everyday society.
Determining who is at fault depends on when your kite hit the water and how long they had to bail. HOWEVER, we can all spot a beginner, and who follows a beginner so close that there is no time to short tack when he falls off??!! You know he's going to fall off, or stop without looking - so why was she right on his wake? (if she was indeed close enough that she couldn't stop)
On the road, if you run into the back of someone you are at fault, if the car in front does something stupid and comes to an extreme abrupt stop, and you hit it - it is your fault, you must leave enough room for the unexpected - why is this any different? By the time I'd been kiting for 2 years, I could stop on a dime.
If it was me, I would have calmly explained that in the leisure-time pursuit that we take part in, accidents are unfortunately possible and I will pay for the damage to my gear, glad to see you're ok miss, no hard feelings, good day. If the bully boyfriend (who is just trying to alpha male) carried on with it I would have told him to file it in court, will see you there.
I've never had damaged gear caused by someone else's actions, but I have had to avoid unexpected actions on many occasions, and I just give a wave and nod on the next pass - no hard feelings - move on with life. I have always had the opinion that if someone does something that causes damage to my gear, I suck it up - maybe I just don't blame everyone else....
st11 - I really have no idea why beginners go to Shearwater - go for a drive, there are far more forgiving spots to learn in SEQ. AND I think you've been ripped for a set of lines - my local charges $160RRP for a set of 23m lines - regulars like me, I paid 130 fitted late last year.
Select to expand quoteKozzie said..
you nearly killed someone by completely releaseing your kite and your crying about paying a few hundred bucks for lines and are threatening everyone that next time you nearly kill someone you wont be compensating there damages.
get some more lessons before you end up in jail
Ah, you must be the boyfriend who made them pay for their lines. Grow up, and if you are the boyfriend, maybe you should understand who is at fault next time.
Most people are taught to release their kite in a tangle, it's a risk to be attached to two kites, thats why their introduced quick releases based on the death of an individual called Silke Gorldt in 2002 who had another individuals kite tangle with her. Instructors teach people to release kites if they get in trouble so for a beginner to release their kite would be more than acceptable behaviour. If someone was tangle in the lines, there is very little you can do by being attached to them, so the simple solution is for the person tangle in the lines to cut them loose with a Hook knife. My guess is no one will be going into jail, particularly not for having someone ride into their lines and then releasing their kite afterwards because court is based on the reasonable person and in this case, the reasonable person would have done the same thing.
2 seconds isn't much time, but enough to avoid what happened. I don't really think anyone is at fault, you both messed up. But These things happen and lucky no one got hurt.
Just curious tho, how the hell did all 4 of her lines snap? I find that strange.
Select to expand quotest11 said..
kiteboy dave said..
.......
What happened suggests she's also a beginner or acts like one despite the 2-3 years kiting..
I think kiteboy dave has it spot on. She didn't have much time to take avoidance action - probably only a skilled/experienced rider would have avoided me (as opposed to an intermediate). About 10m behind me (probably about 2 seconds?) from my kite being in the water is my estimate. Too close to start with. I would not have expected anything from her, but also should have not been bullied into coughing up dough myself. As kkiter said at the start, live and learn.
markus86, I'm very curious as to how you did that. I presume you mean out past the breaks. I love the surf and my end goal is to kite in it, but it doesn't seem like an appropriate learning place. The breaks around the gold coast are usually significant - how do you get out past them to start with, when still learning board skills? Would also want someone keeping an eye on me when that far out. Whilst the flat water spots have major disadvantages, as highlighted amply by this incident, there are also some safety benefits in being around other kiters.
Any day on the coast when the waves are mellow 0-3ft range and the wind is up, have a drive around and get a feel for the coast line/wind/tidal conditions/sweeps and you will find the secluded spots which at low tide a gutter forms where there isn't to much moving water and only a small shore break body drag out past it 5m or sometimes its so small its not any trouble.
Yeah shearwater is flat-water but take another look , no beach, trees, power lines, boats, kooks, rippers, all packed in VS a an open beach, heaps of space, potentially zero people and a small shore break if you choose a good day..
get out there yew!
PS I think being around other kiters was you problem as per the above said incident...
Its unfortunate what has happened, your not the first and you won't be the last.
While rigging up the first thing I'm looking for is beginners , trainees under intruction and other obstacles, once sighted i will keep my distance and immediately travel upwind and stay their.
This so called 3 year veteran must never travel so close as to not have an escape plan - route to avoid such instances (crucial error on her part )
As for the aggressive confronting nature on the bfs part, I've scene this type of behaviour before. When something doesn't go their way, instead of communicating and agreeing to some type of resolution They become irate and abrupt me me me. Simple solution is to call the police and wait it out too they arrive.
Shear water is a great spot for beginners especially with the correct wind/tide combination
IMO i would avoid any beach kiting until your confident staying upwind and transitions are rock solid otherwise it will only end in with similar results and a lost board.
From what I can read you shouldn't have had to pay for their repairs. Hopefully you can put this behind you and keep at it.
You can head to Phillip Park opposite SeaWorld and kite downwind of the flags. You will have hundreds of metres to play in before the next set of flags. The waves add an extra challenge but if you're a surfer it will help a lot in reading them and knowing what to expect. There is no need to go too far out just tack out past the breakers and back in. Once you are confident enough on the board and feel you can head right out and around the flagged areas try and find someone to do some downwinders with you between Main Beach and the Spit as there is a lot of open space in that 5km stretch. This is what I did when learning as Sheary was far too busy and ended in accidents similar to the one you described.
Cant comment on whos fault this was or wasnt as i was not there but i think i have seen you kiting at kfc once before. ( pointed your board out a few times when you were looking for it) im always try and stear clear of beginners as they are very unpredictable. Having seen you kite im not surprised this happened the day i saw you your kite was going all over the place and you never really had control of it. It was pretty crazy and was surprised you didnt tangle with anybody that day.
We all started out at some point and i was defenetly as out of control as you but i stayed away from crowds untill i had a bit more skill. if you go to a crowded kite spot so out of controll of your kite then something is defenetly gonna go wrong.
If you are ready to release the kite to save your own ass, you mite also consider what damage its going to do and who gets hurt. Sad story realy sorry for the kite comunity that will have to put up with your attitude in the future.
Select to expand quotest11 said..
Anyway, I'm up on the board for a little but end up getting too much speed. I bail from the board and get dragged a bit before ending up with myself, my kite and my lines in the drink. Yep, I did say I was a beginner.... Not far behind me and a little downwind a gal realises she is about to cross where my lines must be, so bails also. Ends up in the water in front of me. I can't see my lines which are still in the choppy water, but after a few seconds it is clear they are tangled in some way so I pull my safety release. A nearby bloke boards past calling out to pull our saftey release. I already had, but my bar hadn't moved out far like expected - already tangled.
The gal was trying to release herself. My kite was starting to get some more air in it, so at the urging of the nearby bloke I completely disconnected. She continued to get pulled downwind, while I swam to shore. My kite starts doing loops just out of the water. She gets dragged through the water at high speed. All 4 of the lines to her kite snap, even though its mine doing most of the dragging. I'm on the beach by now with other people trying to see her in the distance - the canals stop us following more closely. Down near some boats we finally spot her swimming to shore.
so to me it seems like your at fault here , you say she was downwind of you ? If so then that means that you should have been aware that she was there as you were both on the same tack and she has right of way . Maybe it would be a good idea to get some lessons on what to do in an emergency . If your safety didn't release properly as you stated then you should have quickly pulled on a centreline and pulled in metres of line to take any power out of the kite . Double punch out was probably the worst thing to do in this situation .
Personally i would put the blame 100% on you in this situation from your account. Having said that the boyfriend sounds like a dick .
Select to expand quotejharrisc said...
To clear one thing up. She is also a beginner!
Yeh. Where did you get the idea she has been kiting for 3 years? Maybe 3 months tops.
