AFAIR, North promised to keep the same front wing connections "until 2025". So maybe an integrated fuse is in the works.
Select to expand quotetintifax said..
i would wish for one an two size smaller and skinnier rears for my HA 950 and HA 750
Agree. Think I'll chop the stab.
Select to expand quotetintifax said..
I completely agree with you that integrated versions can be built even more streamlined and stiff - thus better performance.
Regarding comparison of drag of the two frontwings you did not mention the sizes of used rears on each.
Never i would have believed the dramatic differences in drag due to the use of different rears if not experienced myself.
I had Axis ARTs before and was lucky to try lot rears from a buddy. I ended up using even my big Ha foil with a rear that is comparable to the smallest and "fastest" north rear (S178 - which i use also for the HA1450). And thats my only complaint about north: i am not a pro rider and not even a lightweight but i would wish for one an two size smaller and skinnier rears for my HA 950 and HA 750
The only North tail I used now is S208 order S178 long time ago at my local shop but the shop or North mess up my order. For Code I have 150AR. So the drag may partially come from the bigger tail.
But I suspect the majority of drag comes form the mast. I have aluminium mast and carbon mast Alu mast is thicker and you can feel the drag when riding back to back. Even 95cm carbon mast is less draggy than the 85cm alu mast.
One thing that you should keep in mind when pairing tail with front wing. If you use too big front wing for your weight, you will end up riding that foil at low or negative angle of attack (The net lift must be equal to the total weight) So you ride at higher AoA for the tail so more downforce and more drag from the tail. You can shim the tail to compensate this.
Select to expand quoteTaeyeony said..tintifax said..
I completely agree with you that integrated versions can be built even more streamlined and stiff - thus better performance.
Regarding comparison of drag of the two frontwings you did not mention the sizes of used rears on each.
Never i would have believed the dramatic differences in drag due to the use of different rears if not experienced myself.
I had Axis ARTs before and was lucky to try lot rears from a buddy. I ended up using even my big Ha foil with a rear that is comparable to the smallest and "fastest" north rear (S178 - which i use also for the HA1450). And thats my only complaint about north: i am not a pro rider and not even a lightweight but i would wish for one an two size smaller and skinnier rears for my HA 950 and HA 750
The only North tail I used now is S208 order S178 long time ago at my local shop but the shop or North mess up my order. For Code I have 150AR. So the drag may partially come from the bigger tail.
But I suspect the majority of drag comes form the mast. I have aluminium mast and carbon mast Alu mast is thicker and you can feel the drag when riding back to back. Even 95cm carbon mast is less draggy than the 85cm alu mast.
One thing that you should keep in mind when pairing tail with front wing. If you use too big front wing for your weight, you will end up riding that foil at low or negative angle of attack (The net lift must be equal to the total weight) So you ride at higher AoA for the tail so more downforce and more drag from the tail. You can shim the tail to compensate this.
I should have mentioned, that i have also the S208 and compared it to the S178 and tested a lot. Less drag with every foil i have (HA 750, HA 950, HA1150, HA1450) plus better in turns. Only with the HA1450 i have to be a little more patient on the low end and make one pump more with the wing before engaging the foil. Also played a lot with shimming but neutral works just best for me.
There are brands out there with a similar HA size range and their biggest rear is like the S178 and they are at least offering two smaller sizes.
Select to expand quotetintifax said..
I should have mentioned, that i have also the S208 and compared it to the S178 and tested a lot. Less drag with every foil i have (HA 750, HA 950, HA1150, HA1450) plus better in turns. Only with the HA1450 i have to be a little more patient on the low end and make one pump more with the wing before engaging the foil. Also played a lot with shimming but neutral works just best for me.
There are brands out there with a similar HA size range and their biggest rear is like the S178 and they are at least offering two smaller sizes.
Yes, a smaller tail will always reduce drag. My point is don't use too large a front wing as it will slow you down considerably and if you want to go fast on that oversized foil the tail will be draggier than usual (because of the increased AoA of the tail)
I understand they aren't released yet but wondering if anyone has had the chance to ride either the MA700 or SF680 yet?
Will the MA700 be faster and turn quicker but the SF680 will have more glide?
Details:
MA700 - Span 720, AR 7.4
SF680 - Span 790, AR 9.2
Select to expand quotelive2play said..
I understand they aren't released yet but wondering if anyone has had the chance to ride either the MA700 or SF680 yet?
Will the MA700 be faster and turn quicker but the SF680 will have more glide?
Details:
MA700 - Span 720, AR 7.4
SF680 - Span 790, AR 9.2
Pretty interested in this as well, particularly the SF680.
I'm hearing new front wings will be launched more suited to DW. Anyone with more info?
Has anyone compared the MA1350 to the MA1200V2 or MA1500V2?
I would like to know, how the V2s come on foil and if they are as fast.
I have the MA1350 and the MA1850V2. The 1850 comes on foil very easy, has an incredible low stallspeed, but is not so fast....
Select to expand quoteMProject04 said..
I'm hearing new front wings will be launched more suited to DW. Anyone with more info?
They're saying Mar/Apr for the new DW foils. I'm still waiting on SF680 to be available Stateside.
Hey all!
Whats the difference between a SF1080+s208 vs SF1080+s215 setup?
I have the s208 for the SF1080, which works well. It's loose, fast, but I wonder what characteristics the s215 would bring to the SF1080?
How different is the camber of the s215 stab from the other stabilisers in the range below? Is the profile thicker? Draggier? More curvature? The cart below doesn't give the full picture..
It's more draggier. Higher stall speed and a bit slower. Turns a bit better. It's made for the surf series foils.
Select to expand quotelenzilot said..
Has anyone compared the MA1350 to the MA1200V2 or MA1500V2?
I would like to know, how the V2s come on foil and if they are as fast.
I have the MA1350 and the MA1850V2. The 1850 comes on foil very easy, has an incredible low stallspeed, but is not so fast....
I don't have the 1200 or 1500 but got the MA1050V2 (and also the MA850V2). Even the new MA1050V2 comes easier on foil than the old MA1350 and has better glide, pump, speed and about the same stall speed. Fun carving and easier to ride than the HAs (better pitch stability and turning). Would also recommend it to beginners up to 90kg after their first beginner foil as a one foil solution which later becomes your light wind foil you will never grow out.
That the MA850V2 is also a very nice foil, as already discussed. For me (90kg) the MA850V2 and MA1050 would cover all conditions.
But i will sell them (if anybody is interested - message me) as my chopped HAs are still better for my style of riding (less turny and less pitch stable but even more glide and less drag)
For those interested in chopping HAs and as requested some time ago, i finally got a picture of my chopped HA (5cm on each side (HA1150 and 950, 3cm on the HA750)). Couldn't fell any loss in glide, speed and no ventilation issues (even with almost half foil out) - but turns much better and less fear of the tips 
Select to expand quotetintifax said..
For those interested in chopping HAs and as requested some time ago, i finally got a picture of my chopped HA (5cm on each side (HA1150 and 950, 3cm on the HA750)). Couldn't fell any loss in glide, speed and no ventilation issues (even with almost half foil out) - but turns much better and less fear of the tips
Thanks for the picture. Did you hit the foam core on the 950 when you took 5cm off?
If so, what did you use to seal it again?
Select to expand quoteMProject04 said..
Hey all!
Whats the difference between a SF1080+s208 vs SF1080+s215 setup?
I have the s208 for the SF1080, which works well. It's loose, fast, but I wonder what characteristics the s215 would bring to the SF1080?
How different is the camber of the s215 stab from the other stabilisers in the range below? Is the profile thicker? Draggier? More curvature? The cart below doesn't give the full picture..
I posted awhile back on this. I ride the 208 most of the time on the 1080SF now. The 215 rides about a knot and a half slower, however.it can get you up on most of the North foils sooner, pitch stability increases and you can pump more aggressively and sloppy and it won't wash out on a bad pump stroke. In light air down-winding I use the 215 on the 1450HA to pump out of holes in between swell trains.
Select to expand quoteShlogger said..MProject04 said..
Hey all!
Whats the difference between a SF1080+s208 vs SF1080+s215 setup?
I have the s208 for the SF1080, which works well. It's loose, fast, but I wonder what characteristics the s215 would bring to the SF1080?
How different is the camber of the s215 stab from the other stabilisers in the range below? Is the profile thicker? Draggier? More curvature? The cart below doesn't give the full picture..
I posted awhile back on this. I ride the 208 most of the time on the 1080SF now. The 215 rides about a knot and a half slower, however.it can get you up on most of the North foils sooner, pitch stability increases and you can pump more aggressively and sloppy and it won't wash out on a bad pump stroke. In light air down-winding I use the 215 on the 1450HA to pump out of holes in between swell trains.
Thanks Shlogger! So I can expect a better low end and lower stall speed?
Lars: did you mean lower stall speed?
Yes S215 with SF1080 is nice, but S208 is the most versatile stab in my opinion, it's a perfect fit for SF1080, SF930, MA1050v2 and it also works with MA850v2 if you don't have S178. Plus, it's the recommended stab for most of the HA (cannot say much on that, had only some short sessions with HA).
Regarding the S215: in my opinion, the drag is absolutely acceptable together with the SF1080. It doesn't feel like a brake. You won't be chasing speed records with the SF1080 anyway, although the achievable speed is surprisingly high for a surf foil with such a low stall speed.
Select to expand quoterandomfoiler said..tintifax said..
For those interested in chopping HAs and as requested some time ago, i finally got a picture of my chopped HA (5cm on each side (HA1150 and 950, 3cm on the HA750)). Couldn't fell any loss in glide, speed and no ventilation issues (even with almost half foil out) - but turns much better and less fear of the tips
Thanks for the picture. Did you hit the foam core on the 950 when you took 5cm off?
If so, what did you use to seal it again?
Yes, with 5 cm i just hit the start of the foam core ( no foam core with 3 cm chop). Sealed it with uv cure - epoxy ding repair.
Select to expand quoteMProject04 said..Shlogger said..MProject04 said..
Hey all!
Whats the difference between a SF1080+s208 vs SF1080+s215 setup?
I have the s208 for the SF1080, which works well. It's loose, fast, but I wonder what characteristics the s215 would bring to the SF1080?
How different is the camber of the s215 stab from the other stabilisers in the range below? Is the profile thicker? Draggier? More curvature? The cart below doesn't give the full picture..
I posted awhile back on this. I ride the 208 most of the time on the 1080SF now. The 215 rides about a knot and a half slower, however.it can get you up on most of the North foils sooner, pitch stability increases and you can pump more aggressively and sloppy and it won't wash out on a bad pump stroke. In light air down-winding I use the 215 on the 1450HA to pump out of holes in between swell trains.
Thanks Shlogger! So I can expect a better low end and lower stall speed?
Lars: did you mean lower stall speed?
Indeed.
Is anyone doing wing foil racing here? I'm looking for advice which HA quiver to choose for low/mid/ high winds? My all equipment is North and now I'm using ma850v2 and SF1080 with 178/208 stab. Wings Mode Pro 5.5 and Loft pro 7
For speed, the smallest HA you can ride for the condition is the best bet.
But I feel North foil gears may not be the best foil for racing.
Select to expand quoteNikOnFoil said..
First 2 test rides with the MA1050v2 on 700 fuselage and S208 stab. [.] I found the top speed OK but would have hoped for more. But you can ride it extremely slowly. The speed range is therefore wide with a small weakness at top speed. At around 35 kmh it stops to accelerate.
I have to correct myself. I have no idea what I did wrong on the first test rides. I have now ridden the MA1050v2 much faster and have not yet reached the end of what is possible for me. Sorry for that.
So the speed range of the MA1050v2 is really phenomenal and I can't wait to have wind for some more test rides with the MA850v2. My only problem now: which wing has to go. I have too many North Foils (MA v2 and SF) and they are all great 
Select to expand quoteNikOnFoil said..NikOnFoil said..
First 2 test rides with the MA1050v2 on 700 fuselage and S208 stab. [.] I found the top speed OK but would have hoped for more. But you can ride it extremely slowly. The speed range is therefore wide with a small weakness at top speed. At around 35 kmh it stops to accelerate.
I have to correct myself. I have no idea what I did wrong on the first test rides. I have now ridden the MA1050v2 much faster and have not yet reached the end of what is possible for me. Sorry for that.
So the speed range of the MA1050v2 is really phenomenal and I can't wait to have wind for some more test rides with the MA850v2. My only problem now: which wing has to go. I have too many North Foils (MA v2 and SF) and they are all great
Wow! Keeps getting harder to choose
Feels like I found the best light wind front wing for me ?? I'm 82 kilo dry, on 7ft gong hipe crusader 85cm mast/s208 stab/70cm fuse/2023 HA1250/North Loft pro 7m. This was the first 3 hours session in ocean with minor chop. During this 3 hours couple of local kiters was speaking to me with almost the same sentence "How?! There is almost to no wind!". I started my journey with with old MA1200, then I switched to SF1080. Main issue with SF1080 was glide to sustain the movement of the swells. Finally with HA1250 i can effortlessly accelerate and stay in the pocket. Amazing low end but you need to get used to the pumping technique. HA1250 in comparison to SF1080 is more pitch stable with quicker acceleration and low drag. Roll feels to me good and overall feeling like on rails and locked in. Trying to sell my 7m Loft Pro and replace it with 6m new Nova pro. I think I don't need so much grunt and pumping could be more efficient with smaller wing.
for now I decide to keep in my quiver only 2 foils
HA1250 and MA850v2.
Is anyone already tried new downwind foils ? When they will release them? Seems like they changed colors a bit on upcoming downwind board "Horizon". Looks promising ??
Select to expand quoteganeshka said..
Feels like I found the best light wind front wing for me ?? I'm 82 kilo dry, on 7ft gong hipe crusader 85cm mast/s208 stab/70cm fuse/2023 HA1250/North Loft pro 7m. This was the first 3 hours session in ocean with minor chop. During this 3 hours couple of local kiters was speaking to me with almost the same sentence "How?! There is almost to no wind!". I started my journey with with old MA1200, then I switched to SF1080. Main issue with SF1080 was glide to sustain the movement of the swells. Finally with HA1250 i can effortlessly accelerate and stay in the pocket. Amazing low end but you need to get used to the pumping technique. HA1250 in comparison to SF1080 is more pitch stable with quicker acceleration and low drag. Roll feels to me good and overall feeling like on rails and locked in. Trying to sell my 7m Loft Pro and replace it with 6m new Nova pro. I think I don't need so much grunt and pumping could be more efficient with smaller wing.
for now I decide to keep in my quiver only 2 foils
HA1250 and MA850v2.
Is anyone already tried new downwind foils ? When they will release them? Seems like they changed colors a bit on upcoming downwind board "Horizon". Looks promising ??
Do you have the s270 (comes with the north sonar set) ? If so I wonder if you could squeeze a little bit more low end paired with the HA1250 (vs the s208)
Select to expand quoteMProject04 said..ganeshka said..
Feels like I found the best light wind front wing for me ?? I'm 82 kilo dry, on 7ft gong hipe crusader 85cm mast/s208 stab/70cm fuse/2023 HA1250/North Loft pro 7m. This was the first 3 hours session in ocean with minor chop. During this 3 hours couple of local kiters was speaking to me with almost the same sentence "How?! There is almost to no wind!". I started my journey with with old MA1200, then I switched to SF1080. Main issue with SF1080 was glide to sustain the movement of the swells. Finally with HA1250 i can effortlessly accelerate and stay in the pocket. Amazing low end but you need to get used to the pumping technique. HA1250 in comparison to SF1080 is more pitch stable with quicker acceleration and low drag. Roll feels to me good and overall feeling like on rails and locked in. Trying to sell my 7m Loft Pro and replace it with 6m new Nova pro. I think I don't need so much grunt and pumping could be more efficient with smaller wing.
for now I decide to keep in my quiver only 2 foils
HA1250 and MA850v2.
Is anyone already tried new downwind foils ? When they will release them? Seems like they changed colors a bit on upcoming downwind board "Horizon". Looks promising ??
Do you have the s270 (comes with the north sonar set) ? If so I wonder if you could squeeze a little bit more low end paired with the HA1250 (vs the s208)
Just sold it with SF1080. I believe new s238 can increase low end without too much drag. I think s238 was made to for new MA1200-1500 v2 and bigger HA. Let's see what they release as dedicated downwind-pump foils. I heard about this from couple of interviews and release date around March / April
For sure rigid downwind board can help with low end. My 124l 7feet hipe crusader probably is too much for my 82 kilo. Maybe something around 95-105l will be ideal in the length 6.3-7feet and this can be only 1 board quiver.
It took me a while to figure out why the cost of the MA2400 V2 was much lower than the other V2 MA sizes. Turns out it uses pre-preg e-glass rather than pre-preg carbon. I read up on the benefits and drawbacks of both materials. I'm very curious to see how stiff the e-glass is, so I ordered the MA2400 V2. North indicates that they are planning to introduce the cheaper e-glass in some of the other larger MA sizes in the future.
Starboard used glass in their beginner wings for a short time. I see this on their website now, "We found G10 wings and glass fibre wings to flex too much, no matter what we tried. Flex reduces control and stability. Since thicker wings would reduce performance, we chose to make all Starboard Wings in 100% pre-preg Toray carbon. Like for the mast, stiffer wings equal controlled and stable flight."
I have the MA850v2 and the old MA1050. My last session I tried the MA1050 with the S208. But it felt very unstable! So I switched back to the S210 for the MA1050. The MA850v2 works much better with the S208. Maybe the stabiliser is too fast for the ma1050, I don't know but it didn't feel good. Up down up down up down, no stability.
