BTW, there was word of Armstrong losing market share recently but since this thread has almost 60000 views seems like interest in the brand is still pretty damn high. Unless it's the same dozen of us that refresh it multiple times a day! 
Select to expand quoteaahi said..
BTW, there was word of Armstrong losing market share recently but since this thread has almost 60000 views seems like interest in the brand is still pretty damn high. Unless it's the same dozen of us that refresh it multiple times a day!
It very rare i see armstrong in europe. Over here most people ride european brands like F-one, Fanatic, Sab, RRD etc. I see Axxis more and more though. I think they price them self out of the market over here. 500 euro more for a Armstrong compared to a full carbon any of the other EU brands. And you cant say they are any better either in terms of performance or quality either.
Select to expand quoteBioniSurf said..aahi said..
BTW, there was word of Armstrong losing market share recently but since this thread has almost 60000 views seems like interest in the brand is still pretty damn high. Unless it's the same dozen of us that refresh it multiple times a day!
It very rare i see armstrong in europe. Over here most people ride european brands like F-one, Fanatic, Sab, RRD etc. I see Axxis more and more though. I think they price them self out of the market over here. 500 euro more for a Armstrong compared to a full carbon any of the other EU brands. And you cant say they are any better either in terms of performance or quality either.
So they cant lose market share in a market they didnt have any share in the first place. Your post makes no sense.
I've just bought the MA1225 and it behaves as expected, I don't think my HS1550 V2 will get much use anymore and it's more user friendly than the HA925. All three foils are almost exactly the same length. It's the easiest to tack of the three.
I also bought a HA195 tail to replace a HS232 so changed two things at once. It's more pitch sensitive, which is not a bad thing when pumping. It does feel a bit draggy/gurgly going downwind and sometimes I can feel vibration. Is that normal? I've tried 1 red shim and none, I think I prefer none. I'm wondering if it is due to flow interaction with the bottom of the lake, I am playing around on lake swells breaking on a sandbar that is about 1.2 metres deep.
Select to expand quotesimonp said..
I've just bought the MA1225 and it behaves as expected, I don't think my HS1550 V2 will get much use anymore and it's more user friendly than the HA925. All three foils are almost exactly the same length. It's the easiest to tack of the three.
I also bought a HA195 tail to replace a HS232 so changed two things at once. It's more pitch sensitive, which is not a bad thing when pumping. It does feel a bit draggy/gurgly going downwind and sometimes I can feel vibration. Is that normal? I've tried 1 red shim and none, I think I prefer none. I'm wondering if it is due to flow interaction with the bottom of the lake, I am playing around on lake swells breaking on a sandbar that is about 1.2 metres deep.
Thats a significant/ massive change putting the 195 on as well before getting used to that tail. It couldnt be more different than the 232. Got your 232 still?
Had a stellar session yesterday in waist to chest high waves with MA1225 with 232,60 fuse no shim on FG88 at 6. Winds 17-20 knots, riding a 4.5. Popped up easy and pitch stability was good, better than 195. Can't wait to get my hands on the 235 tail.
You can feel it is slower than 925 going down wave faces but it is controlled so you don't feel like imminent yard sale. Carving is great, so easy to change direction quickly.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..BioniSurf said..aahi said..
BTW, there was word of Armstrong losing market share recently but since this thread has almost 60000 views seems like interest in the brand is still pretty damn high. Unless it's the same dozen of us that refresh it multiple times a day!
It very rare i see armstrong in europe. Over here most people ride european brands like F-one, Fanatic, Sab, RRD etc. I see Axxis more and more though. I think they price them self out of the market over here. 500 euro more for a Armstrong compared to a full carbon any of the other EU brands. And you cant say they are any better either in terms of performance or quality either.
So they cant lose market share in a market they didnt have any share in the first place. Your post makes no sense.
How does it not make sense? Im talking about my obervation at this point of time. Maybe they had a bigger marked in europe before the other brands were catching up and releasing foils? Or maybe it's just that more people at your side of the world choose to ride other brands cause of the greater variety of good foils?
Select to expand quoteFoilnut said..
Had a stellar session yesterday in waist to chest high waves with MA1225 with 232,60 fuse no shim on FG88 at 6. Winds 17-20 knots, riding a 4.5. Popped up easy and pitch stability was good, better than 195. Can't wait to get my hands on the 235 tail.
You can feel it is slower than 925 going down wave faces but it is controlled so you don't feel like imminent yard sale. Carving is great, so easy to change direction quickly.
Yeh you will love it. My mate jist swapped out his 232
for the flow 235 on the 1225. He is massively stoked.
Select to expand quoteFoilnut said..
Had a stellar session yesterday in waist to chest high waves with MA1225 with 232,60 fuse no shim on FG88 at 6. Winds 17-20 knots, riding a 4.5. Popped up easy and pitch stability was good, better than 195. Can't wait to get my hands on the 235 tail.
You can feel it is slower than 925 going down wave faces but it is controlled so you don't feel like imminent yard sale. Carving is great, so easy to change direction quickly.
50 fuse feels amazing on the 1225 with chopped 232 and performance mast. Haven't ridden the 60 on it yet. Agree that the 1225 feels slower down wave faces than the HA foils but it is surprisingly fast and stable under wing power. You can really feel the foil slowing down going from full wing power to drifting down wind, but the foil seems pretty eager to turn in a predictable way without outpacing the swell. I find I can relax so much more at higher speeds on waves while turning compared to the HAs (as much as I love the HAs!). Very different feel but really enjoy both styles of foil. Being able to tune for the feel you are after is really something I've been enjoying on the Armstrong system, especially with the new masts and MAs.
After probably 10-15 sessions with MA800 and then experimenting with 525/205 and 725/205 with and without .5 shim and in CRAZY Kailua conditions (25-35 knots and 2-4 meter ocean swell and breaking waves) I've come to a decision...
I'm sticking with the 725/205 combo and selling the MA800. Let me be clear, the MA800 is a fantastic foil, but the 725 just suits my conditions better. With the 205 tail, the 725 is very surfy and more pitch stable, similar case for the 525/205 combo.
I'm keeping the MA1000 for the super light wind days where there is also surf.
I'm keen to hear more about your thoughts and logic OWW (and others) - i am riding HA925/195 primarily, 725 when its bigger and 1125 when there is not much happening. Where does the MA fit in to the quiver and is it worth changing over from an HA?
how does the 205 compare with the 195 on the 725 and 925? (Weird sentence anywhere else!) and is it substantially different to chopping a 232?
This foiling **** is getting too complicated.
Select to expand quoteCH3MTR4IL5 said..
I'm keen to hear more about your thoughts and logic OWW (and others) - i am riding HA925/195 primarily, 725 when its bigger and 1125 when there is not much happening. Where does the MA fit in to the quiver and is it worth changing over from an HA?
how does the 205 compare with the 195 on the 725 and 925? (Weird sentence anywhere else!) and is it substantially different to chopping a 232?
This foiling **** is getting too complicated.
Quick answer on tails. 205 is a little slower but adds pitch stability, lift (can get on foil easier), and definitely makes rail to rail turns faster and tighter. Great tail with the smaller HA foils. Totally different animal than the chopped 232 which has a much thicker profile and none of the camber.
On front wings I found the 925 too wide in wing span for my liking and didn't get that much more benefit for low wind performance over the 725. The MA1000 has the same span as the 725 and can get on foil in really light wind. It will be my "big foil" for days with really light wind (8-12 knots) when there is surf that can still really carve.
Im 75kg riding 69l board with biggest wind being 5.2. If you like the 725 and 925 I'd start with a 205 tail on those foils and see what you think.
CH3M, I too ride the HA925 mostly, followed by the 725 on fast swell days or light/flat 5m days, and then a chopped 1125 on really light days. The HA925 initially set my skills back a month last year but that foil taught me a lot after 100+ sessions. At 185lbs/84kg I can turn it fine and I use the 195 tail.
Where does the MA belong? In my van most of the time! I have the MA1000 and can't get past the reduction of glide and prefer to ride waves/swell on the 925 since it has the same or better low end for me. If it is really light, the chopped 1125 has more low end than the MA1000. I think I ride better switching between HAs because they ride similar.
I'm saving the HA1000 to test it out in really chaotic Gorge water when the period is super close and steep. I have found it is hard to ride a HA flat long enough to start in rare conditions like that. I'll probably get the 205 tail at some point to balance it out. I'm sure I just need more time to learn what the MA foils have to offer but the HAs are just so good.
Oahuwaterwalker, can you go faster on huge swell with the 205 vs the 195 tail? Does the extra stability overcome the extra drag? All of your feedback here is spot on Mahalo!
Select to expand quoteBZRider said..
Oahuwaterwalker, can you go faster on huge swell with the 205 vs the 195 tail? Does the extra stability overcome the extra drag? All of your feedback here is spot on Mahalo!
I think you can go plenty fast on 205. Especially with some shim. My peak speeds are lower but still good. I think the key is that the acceleration of the 725 stays intact. That seems to matter more than peak speed when the bottom starts to drop out.
Thanks BZ and OWW, thats exactly the info I need and sounds like a similar setup, I am 75kg riding 70L board and usually on a 4m wing. I love the 725 but if the wind is sketchy i find it easier to keep the 925 going. Sounds like the lift from the 205 might help resolve that (and cheaper than changing foils!)
Well i am a little different in that im loving the MA1000 Over the 925, coupled with a 195 rather than the 205. Each to their own - gotta Try to know. it just feels right. The stabililty and flow of that 1000 with a dash of 195 excitability in the tail. Just right!!!
I would like to try though a 725 with a 205 tail on the new mast. That might be something indeed. 
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Well i am a little different in that im loving the MA1000 Over the 925, coupled with a 195 rather than the 205. Each to their own - gotta Try to know. it just feels right. The stabililty and flow of that 1000 with a dash of 195 excitability in the tail. Just right!!!
I would like to try though a 725 with a 205 tail on the new mast. That might be something indeed.
I agree with you on that MA1000 it was a lot of fun with the 195 tail.
Select to expand quoteOahuwaterwalker said..eppo said..
Well i am a little different in that im loving the MA1000 Over the 925, coupled with a 195 rather than the 205. Each to their own - gotta Try to know. it just feels right. The stabililty and flow of that 1000 with a dash of 195 excitability in the tail. Just right!!!
I would like to try though a 725 with a 205 tail on the new mast. That might be something indeed.
I agree with you on that MA1000 it was a lot of fun with the 195 tail.
It's fun with the fv200 too!
Just got off water - mate and i both on 1000 - him with the new 205 me the 195. But thats by the by.
what we both agreed on was: pumping the 1225 is so plug and play. No brainer. The 1000 however is still quite a technical little beast to pump and link. Gotta really keep high on the mast - high cadence - almost HA level pump style.
its weird how much more technical it is than the 1225 and only a size smaller designed from the same line. I assume the 800 is another level of difficulty.
but once you get in the groove she flies. Awesome. Turns so well.
Help please! I was going to buy the MA1225 but after following this thread I'm confused!I'm low intermediate winging only, 86kg using Naish 95l, with Armie HS1850, 60 fuse, HS232 stab and 85 A+ mast..In flat water the setup is manageable but as soon as I turn onto any unbroken swell I can't control the lift so I'm looking for a smaller front foil. Initially I thought about the new MA but there's absolutely no money for the performance mast and that looks like it might be an issue?So is the CF1200v2 or even the HS1250 a better option that the MA1225 or am I overthinking this?
Select to expand quotespikefoil said..
Help please! I was going to buy the MA1225 but after following this thread I'm confused!I'm low intermediate winging only, 86kg using Naish 95l, with Armie HS1850, 60 fuse, HS232 stab and 85 A+ mast..In flat water the setup is manageable but as soon as I turn onto any unbroken swell I can't control the lift so I'm looking for a smaller front foil. Initially I thought about the new MA but there's absolutely no money for the performance mast and that looks like it might be an issue?So is the CF1200v2 or even the HS1250 a better option that the MA1225 or am I overthinking this?
go for HS1250 . great wing and half the price
Select to expand quotemarco said..spikefoil said..
Help please! I was going to buy the MA1225 but after following this thread I'm confused!I'm low intermediate winging only, 86kg using Naish 95l, with Armie HS1850, 60 fuse, HS232 stab and 85 A+ mast..In flat water the setup is manageable but as soon as I turn onto any unbroken swell I can't control the lift so I'm looking for a smaller front foil. Initially I thought about the new MA but there's absolutely no money for the performance mast and that looks like it might be an issue?So is the CF1200v2 or even the HS1250 a better option that the MA1225 or am I overthinking this?
go for HS1250 . great wing and half the price
Yeah 1250 is a good option. It is also kinda good that if it breaches it loses lift and you go down. The MAs are not really going to drop on a breach, which could bring in some awkward wipeouts from up high, if your skill isn't ready yet.
I've got one available in the states for cheap if interested.
Select to expand quotemarco said..spikefoil said..
Help please! I was going to buy the MA1225 but after following this thread I'm confused!I'm low intermediate winging only, 86kg using Naish 95l, with Armie HS1850, 60 fuse, HS232 stab and 85 A+ mast..In flat water the setup is manageable but as soon as I turn onto any unbroken swell I can't control the lift so I'm looking for a smaller front foil. Initially I thought about the new MA but there's absolutely no money for the performance mast and that looks like it might be an issue?So is the CF1200v2 or even the HS1250 a better option that the MA1225 or am I overthinking this?
go for HS1250 . great wing and half the price
Yeah 1250 is a good option. It is also kinda good that if it breaches it loses lift and you go down. The MAs are not really going to drop on a breach, which could bring in some awkward wipeouts from up high, if your skill isn't ready yet.
I've got one available in the states for cheap if interested.
Select to expand quotemarco said..spikefoil said..
Help please! I was going to buy the MA1225 but after following this thread I'm confused!I'm low intermediate winging only, 86kg using Naish 95l, with Armie HS1850, 60 fuse, HS232 stab and 85 A+ mast..In flat water the setup is manageable but as soon as I turn onto any unbroken swell I can't control the lift so I'm looking for a smaller front foil. Initially I thought about the new MA but there's absolutely no money for the performance mast and that looks like it might be an issue?So is the CF1200v2 or even the HS1250 a better option that the MA1225 or am I overthinking this?
go for HS1250 . great wing and half the price
Thanks Marco. Interestingly the HS is only about 15% cheaper here in the UK.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Just got off water - mate and i both on 1000 - him with the new 205 me the 195. But thats by the by.
what we both agreed on was: pumping the 1225 is so plug and play. No brainer. The 1000 however is still quite a technical little beast to pump and link. Gotta really keep high on the mast - high cadence - almost HA level pump style.
its weird how much more technical it is than the 1225 and only a size smaller designed from the same line. I assume the 800 is another level of difficulty.
but once you get in the groove she flies. Awesome. Turns so well.
eppo interesting on the difference between the 1225 and 1000. I have only run the 1000 once and agreed its a significant technical bump up. I have been running the 1225 with 232, 3 sessions. Stability is great as long as keeping front foot pressure. The turning is fantastic. Going down waves no yard sales. Have you tried the 1000 with 232?
Still waiting for MA tails in Canada, LOL
Winging, FG88 @6 with 93PM, 60 fuse, no shim, 232 tail
Select to expand quoteFoilnut said..eppo said..
Just got off water - mate and i both on 1000 - him with the new 205 me the 195. But thats by the by.
what we both agreed on was: pumping the 1225 is so plug and play. No brainer. The 1000 however is still quite a technical little beast to pump and link. Gotta really keep high on the mast - high cadence - almost HA level pump style.
its weird how much more technical it is than the 1225 and only a size smaller designed from the same line. I assume the 800 is another level of difficulty.
but once you get in the groove she flies. Awesome. Turns so well.
eppo interesting on the difference between the 1225 and 1000. I have only run the 1000 once and agreed its a significant technical bump up. I have been running the 1225 with 232, 3 sessions. Stability is great as long as keeping front foot pressure. The turning is fantastic. Going down waves no yard sales. Have you tried the 1000 with 232?
Still waiting for MA tails in Canada, LOL
Winging, FG88 @6 with 93PM, 60 fuse, no shim, 232 tail
Im talking about proning mind you. Winging the 1000 is plug and play. No way i would slow the 1000 down with a 232.
Select to expand quotespikefoil said..
Help please! I was going to buy the MA1225 but after following this thread I'm confused!I'm low intermediate winging only, 86kg using Naish 95l, with Armie HS1850, 60 fuse, HS232 stab and 85 A+ mast..In flat water the setup is manageable but as soon as I turn onto any unbroken swell I can't control the lift so I'm looking for a smaller front foil. Initially I thought about the new MA but there's absolutely no money for the performance mast and that looks like it might be an issue?So is the CF1200v2 or even the HS1250 a better option that the MA1225 or am I overthinking this?
disagree with comments above ..
the 1225 with your 232 will be just fine on the A plus mast - if youve already used armstrong gear. The 1250 will just be a smaller 1850, youve got water time under your belt id now go the 1225. 1250 is a great foil but slow and old.
Add also the new 235 flow tail you will have a sweet setup on your A plus mast. Thats my mates daily driver setup now. Big smile on the dial every session
he also has the 1850 as his light wind session saver..
Select to expand quotespikefoil said..
Help please! I was going to buy the MA1225 but after following this thread I'm confused!I'm low intermediate winging only, 86kg using Naish 95l, with Armie HS1850, 60 fuse, HS232 stab and 85 A+ mast..In flat water the setup is manageable but as soon as I turn onto any unbroken swell I can't control the lift so I'm looking for a smaller front foil. Initially I thought about the new MA but there's absolutely no money for the performance mast and that looks like it might be an issue?So is the CF1200v2 or even the HS1250 a better option that the MA1225 or am I overthinking this?
I would go for the MA1225... I'm winging the MA1000 and 235 flow as an intermediate and find it is only slightly more challenging than the HS range. Glide is better, speed range is better, turning is better, but the stall is quite abrupt compared to the HS range. Keeping a bit more speed is key. As has been mentioned many times before, the takeoff requires a slightly higher speed, but it's not a huge change. The 235 tail made quite a difference to the setup - it's far more pitch stable and has much less drag than the 232.
It's also worth noting that the MA foils have more lift than the CF and HA ranges for a given size.
To get the Performance mast angles using your A+ mast consider this: ppcfoiling.com/product/ppc-board-shim/
Select to expand quoteBioniSurf said..aahi said..
BTW, there was word of Armstrong losing market share recently but since this thread has almost 60000 views seems like interest in the brand is still pretty damn high. Unless it's the same dozen of us that refresh it multiple times a day!
It very rare i see armstrong in europe. Over here most people ride european brands like F-one, Fanatic, Sab, RRD etc. I see Axxis more and more though. I think they price them self out of the market over here. 500 euro more for a Armstrong compared to a full carbon any of the other EU brands. And you cant say they are any better either in terms of performance or quality either.
In UK Armstrong is about 10% premium. Brexit probably increased prices of EU brands and no difference to non-EU.
