Hi.
My first post on this Forum and I was hoping I could get some advice on buying a cruising yacht.
My wife and I are looking at an early semi-retirement which will give us time to spend on looking after and enjoying yacht ownership. I have some experience bareboating around the Whitsundays (yes, credit card skipper I think it's called!). Now my wife and I are keen to take it to the next level and buy our own yacht and we hope to eventually cruise the top end of Qld, NT and the Kimberleys. However, I won't be attempting a lifestyle trip like this unless I feel confident in not only my ability, but my wifes' as well. So we won't be charging off into the wide blue yonder until that stage, but we want to buy a yacht soon that will be capable of doing that when the time comes.
I'm thinking of a monohull, around 36'- 42' with a limit maximum of $200k. Cats appeal to me but the price doesn't.
Fiberglass, steel, aluminium?
Bolted on keel or encapsulated, the Cheeky Rafiqui disaster is fresh in my mind.
Annual maintenance costs: what is required?
Insurance?
Some of the things I am looking for:
Gotta get a good nights sleep, so a cabin in the rear with a decent bed!
Water capacity - generous and maybe a water maker.
I'm looking at a cruiser, but at the same time I don't want to buy a slug, it needs to get a move on in a good breeze!
As mentioned above, I like the idea of a cat, more stable and can be beached (Kimberleys etc), but I think the purchase price will be too high for me. Are cats slower than mono's? Pointing ability suffers??
There's heaps more to talk about, so if anyone want's to get involved with this thread, please join in!!
Marty Loader.
If I had that sort of money ear marked Id buy a Hans Christian but thats me just love the old design
www.google.com.au/search?q=Hans+Christian+yacht&client=ubuntu&hs=iY5&sa=X&channel=fs&biw=2560&bih=913&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=c0XMVM-CFoaC8QXr9IC4CQ&ved=0CBwQsAQ
I think most people reading this forum would have trouble spending that sort of money. There are heaps of Beneteau Oceanis and Sun Odyssey's for sale but for something up in Broome an Ovni might suit http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/alubat-ovni-345-cruising-yacht/163427 One of the twin keel versions would do but you might have to go to Noumea to find it.
Personally I would go for a throw away boat for that sort of trip. www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/laguna-quays/sail-boats/bounty-35-peter-cole-designed/1062394979
Or a fixer upper www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/edmonton/sail-boats/salvaged-bounty-35-peter-coles-production-yacht/1069313121
dont rule out a Seawind 1000 ,a good one can be had for less
than $200000 ,they are worth a look
To have a budget like that while boats are so cheap. I'd look at an S&S39 and spend the change making it the ideal short handed boat. A Hans Christian would also be up there. You might even get a Hallberg Rassey or Island Packet with some real hard bargaining. Bluewater 400, Peterson 42. The list is endless.
Love that add from Ramona for the fixer up er. The boat looks like it has been sunk for about a year, sails are stuffed, rig looks like a mess interior stripped out and stuffed, anything useful inside stuffed or removed. Only comment is that it needs a new engine. What about the rest!
Nowandzen, welcome to the forum. It looks like early days for you in looking for a boat, enjoy the process. You are looking at largish boats, I would have a long think about buying at the bigger end for you and your wife to learn sailing, unless you will have others to assist with the early experiences. We sail a 37 footer often with two crew. The boat is manageable for two, but at times it can be challenging. We are early 50s, average fitness, bought the keel boat after many years sailing smaller boats. Always be wary of scaring the crew, there are lots of blokes sailing alone because they scared the crew in the early experiences.
When looking I would also have a good think about the amount of maintenance work you are willing and able to do, yes you can buy bigger and older but older boats are lots of work. If you are not up for the maintenance work then you may be better in a newer, smaller boat.
You asked about maintenance costs. For us the cost of ownership, maintenance, insurance, marina, occasional project etc is around 15% of the value of the boat. no doubt some spend less, others more.
Please consider your knowledge of managing, sailing, maintaining the yacht.
Read, read, ask questions, read more and when your eyes are tired, ask more questions. First broaden your horizon unless you are a knowledgeable one already.
You heard of the "BOAT" question? What it stands for?
Well in our case (yeah, most of us on this forum, anyway) it is Bring Out Another Thousand. In yours, the last letter means Tenthousand!
Management: where to keep it? Marina? Check costs! It is a lot. Insurance you must have. Cost? etc.etc.
Sailing: You better have Cat 3 level of equipment on board for that kind of trip, might come with the yacht, but it usually does not and needs constant updating.
Sails of course, in abundance for all eventualities, anchoring up there needs serious thought. Coral, rocks, sand, mud! etc.
Please consider your knowledge of managing, sailing, maintaining a yacht.
Read, read, ask questions, read more and when your eyes are tired, ask more questions. First broaden your horizon unless you are a knowledgeable one already.
You heard of the "BOAT" question? What it stands for?
Well in our case (yeah, most of us on this forum, anyway) it is Bring Out Another Thousand. In yours, the last letter means Tenthousand!
Management: where to keep it? Marina? Check costs! It is a lot. Insurance you must have. Cost? etc.etc.
Sailing: One better have Cat. 3 level of equipment on board for that kind of trip, might come with the yacht, but it usually does not and needs constant updating.
Sails of course, in abundance for all eventualities, anchoring up there needs serious thought too. Coral, rocks, sand, mud! etc. etc.
Maintenance: Now this is a tough one. If you ring and wait for the guy at the Marina, before you open your mouth to say g'day, you are poorer by a hundred. Minimum. If you can do it, fine but it needs love dedication, guts, wits, and a lots of elbow grease and of course money. Just to keep your hull clean is a hassle. etc.etc.
The happiest day in your life is going be the day when you buy your new toy. The next one could be the day you sell the bloody thing.
So please consider. Wish you the best of luck. 
At the boat show I saw a couple of new offers from Europe.
One is Salona from Croatia, sold here for a not too unreasonable price.
The other one is Sunbeam. This one is Austrian built, I liked this one better. It was built for sailing not as a Marina bound party platform like many yachts are this days.
I never sailed any of them thou I've seen a Salona moored at RPAYC recently.
The other one is imported by a firm on the Pittwater.
Thanks people, some excellent advice I think!
I suppose I should tell you a bit about myself and experience in yachting - which is limited.
As a youngster I sailed Mirrors, Flying Ants and 470's for a while. When I was serving in the Royal Australian Navy, I was lucky enough to sail on Gordon Ingates' "Gretel 2" for a day on Sydney Harbour against Ragamuffin and Siska. They passed us like we were standing still!! What a great experience that was and I feel very lucky to have had the opportunity.
On two separate occasions in the last 2 years, I've spent a total of 3 weeks on-board (and skippering) a Catalina 350 around the Whitsundays bareboating. After a day exploring around the islands, mooring / anchoring at the end of the day with a nice coldie in my mit, I thought to myself, why haven't I pursued my interest in yachting?
Which brings me to where I am now. I'm in my early 50's, been a shift worker for most of my working life, the house is up for sale, and best of all, my wife is almost as keen as me to head off in this new adventure / lifestyle! I know of people who have worked their butt off, postponing what they feel passionate about until they feel they have enough money to live to 120, only to finally quit work at 65 and pop their clogs 2 years later - no thanks. My Dad died before he got to do that deep sea fishing trip off Exmouth he so dreamed about, painful life lesson learnt there by me.
Morningbird, I've only really just started looking at yachts, are they cheap at the moment? I guess people want to get most of their money back and hold on waiting for a price they won't get? I understand that when the time come to sell, no-one recovers the cost of having owned a yacht.
Ramona, what did you mean by saying that I should buy a throw away boat for that sort of trip? Are you suggesting buy a cheap boat, do the trip and sell it after without spending any money on it? That Peter Cole salvaged boat looks like it has already been thrown away!!! 
Also you mentioned that, "most people on this forum would have trouble spending that sort of money". Do you mean that most people wouldn't blow that sort of money on a yacht? The $200k was the absolute top dollar I would pay. Sorry, I'm just trying to understand what it's all about!
Southace, thanks for the link, I have been keeping an eye on the Adams for a while now. My wife and I are fairly tall and as I mentioned in the first post, we prefer an aft cabin (such as this Adams has in the link) to a v-berth. A couple of things I would like to do to it if I bought it (here comes the money!!). Is it possible to fit larger water tanks or a water maker to boats like this? If so, who do you employ to do it - I'm assuming it would be a challenging task. I would like a self furling headsail also. What might it cost to do these things?
Perhaps some of you can suggest a book that that might help me out with some of these silly questions!! I have The Sailing Bible, but it's not really geared towards buying a yacht and pitfalls to look out for.
I'm guessing steel boats are stronger than GRP but heavier and therefore slower?? But handle better in rough seas?? Are steel boats higher maintenance, I'm referring to hull maintenance I guess.
Cheers!!
www.rainmandesal.com/
I would say you would have enough room on board to just add water tanks even soft ones
such as these I would recommend using some thing between the hull and the water bag ( carpet as an example ) and grab some fitting from Bunnings .
That way if some thing goes wrong you can fix it
www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?cat=133&item=85037&intAbsolutePage=1 =50 liter but they make them up to 200 liters
As an example South Ace just bought another yacht for his fleet and some one fitted a elbow to a sea cock 8 years ago and it was dissimilar metal to the rest of the sea cock she nearly sank . So the more you know about the boat you buy the better . Unfortunately for South Ace he had limited time to buy sort out a few things and fly back to work in another state .Other wise he would have found and fixed it before it happened.
The above was my scariest moment this was under the engine sump the previous owner or some one wanted to reduce the hose size from one Inch to 3/4
Didnt even know there was a join there till I removed the hose to replace it after motoring the boat for 7 hours could have been on the bottom of port Philip.
It pays to look your self especially around sea cocks and related parts
Good luck with finding your Boat 
This is the Adams I was actualy looking for but found the 40 in WA , this 42 is steel and has been on the market for nearly 12 months I would say they would take 100k for her. http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/adams-42-yacht/138440
I dont believe there there is such a thing as a cheap boat.....your already talking water makers.....etc all the additions add up to be a expensive boat in the long run.
Adding water makers is one expense but this will require extra power so your next expense will be extra solar,wind,gensets.
Basicly if you can find a good sound hull, main engine and rig for around the 80 to 100 k any extras are a bonus the rest you will need to add your self at extra costs.
Davits, BBQ , covers , binimi covers , electronics , tender & outboard ,washing machine, aircon, solar panels , windgens , battery chargers , inverters, upgrading anchors , replacing sails, sheet ropes, morning lines, extra tankage, antifouling and maintance, repairs, flat screen TVs, insurance, rego, did I miss anything? That's a easy 60 k !
Nice boat Southace, it's on my "Faves list".
I like the look of it and I think it's the sort of thing I am after, just need to sell the house first so I'm not wasting peoples' time.
The workbench in the stern looks pretty good too!
With regards to all the extras you listed, I guess you spend up to $200k on a yacht with everything already on it or $100k and add the extras to it. If I plan to cruise up north, I'm expecting to have to survive on what water the boat can carry, so given that water may not be readily available for some time, the larger capacity the better!
Even if it's stored in a dozen jerry cans.
Select to expand quoteNowandZen said..
Nice boat Southace, it's on my "Faves list".
I like the look of it and I think it's the sort of thing I am after, just need to sell the house first so I'm not wasting peoples' time.
The workbench in the stern looks pretty good too!
With regards to all the extras you listed, I guess you spend up to $200k on a yacht with everything already on it or $100k and add the extras to it. If I plan to cruise up north, I'm expecting to have to survive on what water the boat can carry, so given that water may not be readily available for some time, the larger capacity the better!
Even if it's stored in a dozen jerry cans.
Most newish 42 foot production boats around the $170 to 200k Mark will still need stuff added like davits and solar..etc sometimes you can get lucky with previous owners adding the works and then selling Up .
Older cheap boats with the works usually means the works are old and out dated or will possibly fail in the future.
My Adams 42 holds 800ltrs of fresh water and can last approx 3 weeks before refilling showering every day and doing 4 or 5 loads of washing in the machine.
My old boat held 250 litres and lasted me about 1 week just showering or about 5 days with two people onboard.
NOwancZen, I have been considering selling my Hunter 36. 2008 model. Would be perfect for what you have described.
PM me if you wish
Cruising and yacht owning in general is one of those areas where it's not a good idea to invest all your money. By throw away yacht I mean if it all turns to crap you can just walk away from the boat. Think of it like your buying shares, be prepared to lose the lot. You may have full insurance and the company may pay up but don't count on it. You are the insurance.
I never like to see people sell up houses and buy yachts and think that the wife will get used to it. The whole Eastern seaboard, particularly Northern Queensland is full of lonely old men trying to sell their dreams after the wife decided to go home.
There are several ex navy people on this forum, as long as you were not a paybob or stores basher you should be fine. Just take your time. If you buy the wrong yacht on the expensive side you may have it for a long time!
Yachts are about half the price they were 10 years ago. An outstanding cruising yacht in the 36-40 ft range can be had for $100,000. You might have to spend $20-30,000 getting it how you want it. Northshore 38s can be bought for $65,000. S&S39s for $80,000. More modern boats for a bit more.
When it comes time to sell it you might get your $100,000 back if you are prepared to wait as long as the owner who sold the boat to you.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
There are several ex navy people on this forum, as long as you were not a paybob or stores basher you should be fine. Just take your time. If you buy the wrong yacht on the expensive side you may have it for a long time!
You forgot to mention birdies, bubbleis and bandies.
If you are seriously considering voyaging beyond Cairns to Thursday Island, across the Gulf of Carpentaria and Arnhemland and thence to the Kimberlies and cruising in those areas, you need to be thinking water, stores, refrigeration and fuel capacity.
It is a long way between drinks up in that country and not a lot of Volunteer Marine Rescue Stations.
You also need to be thinking horsepower. There are some pretty wild tidal streams up that way too.
Ask FreeRadical about it. He has just done the trip from east coast to Perth over the top on a 42 footer but that was a delivery, not a cruise.
The above criteria dictate a medium to heavy displacement and therefore not fast unless you can afford physically and financially a 50 to 60 footer. It has been done on lesser yachts but with hardier crew than most of us here. nswsailor is planning on doing a circumnavigation soon with a Top Hat 25 but I think he has been sailing for a fair while and has a good handle on it.
The best advice I have for you is hold onto the real estate and only buy a yacht for a price that represents 10% or less of your nett worth. That is the "Throw away yacht " concept.
If you get halfway along on the adventure and suffer a disaster, but you want to keep going, you can still afford another yacht. If it frightens the hell out of you, you can dump the yacht and you still have the real estate to come back to or if it only scares the hell out of your wife (a very distinct possibility), she can go back to the real estate and you can keep going.
Nothing wrong with hedging your bets.
Andrew Simpson got a good book for novices I could recommend. "Second hand boats" at 'books-for-sale.com'
It is an E-book, you can download it for a few bucks. That would be your first expense and the best dollars spent, ever.
Electronic books as the Dashew's "Mariners weather handbook" and "Surviving the storm" as well as "Thoughts, tips, technics, tactics for single handed sailing" by Andrew Evans are on board regular readings of mine.
Also, there is a plethora of books at Whitworths including the Alan Lucas pilot books but the real good stuff is at "Boat books" in Crows Nest.
I agree with the comment to hold on to your real estate and buy a cheaper boat.
Being in WA the choice is limited. There was a bargain Walker H28 up at Dampier, and that is a good cruising boat. You could probably get it for $10k and it would cost you probably another $8k to get it to Perth.
Start small, cruise local, and then splash out if you are still keen on the long haul.
Select to expand quoteYara said..
I agree with the comment to hold on to your real estate and buy a cheaper boat.
Being in WA the choice is limited. There was a bargain Walker H28 up at Dampier, and that is a good cruising boat. You could probably get it for $10k and it would cost you probably another $8k to get it to Perth.
Start small, cruise local, and then splash out if you are still keen on the long haul.
Why would it cost $8K to get it back.... SAIL IT !!!!
Oi, Cisco. There are at least two birdies on this forum. You just insulted the other one.
Agree your 10% rule, but up to a limit of about $100-150K. I reckon most of us could get a boat that would take us around the world for that money.
Hi NowanZen,
On yacht hub there is an absolute bargain in my IMHO, Bavaria 47 stern cabin 189k NEGOTIABLE So you would imagine if you started at150k you might finish up with a beautiful boat with change leftover for perhaps a watermaker and whatever else. Some people here think that 47ft is too big. I found a bargain similar to this 4 years ago and I'm absolutely loving it. Mine is a Beneteau 46 which I could never ever imagined I could afford,but through google where you'll find every forum to help you solve most problems you can save lots of dollars.I sail mostly singlehanded along the East Coast mainly because my wife and two daughters don't like offshore sailing but are very happy to join me when the yacht arrives at the designated destination. Sailing has been made so easy these days that a well set up 45 to 50ft yacht can easily be managed by a couple. I regularly deliver 40/50ft yachts up and down this coast 2 handed without issues and have been caught out in some serious situations weather wise, but have arrived unscathed more often than not, what I'm trying to say is don't buy some grotty 30/40 ft thing if you can afford something more comfortable, ask Jode5.
Good call Moocher,
With a $200k budget you would be crazy not to step aboard a 47 like that and at least have a look. I wish I had before I did the silly sausage thing.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
Oi, Cisco. There are at least two birdies on this forum. You just insulted the other one.
Agree your 10% rule, but up to a limit of about $100-150K. I reckon most of us could get a boat that would take us around the world for that money.
Well I have to admit you are one birdie I have met that has some sense about himself and the other one seems to be well proved too.
But yes, $100k to buy and $50k for preparation should get one a world cruiser.
I was really tempted to buy "Sunburst" out of Adelaide a couple of years ago. A Peterson 40, alloy hull for $25,000. Even if one spent another $50,000 on it she would have been a fantastic buy and a fantastic yacht to take anywhere in the world. Tough as nails.
Are there any 35 year old Benetaues or Jenneaus still floating around???
Hi NowandZen,
As Cisco mentioned, we (syndicate of 4) bought a Delphia 40 In Airlie Beach and brought it over the top to Perth. RiffRaff on this forum is doing the same in a Delphia 40 as well.
I think the very first thing to consider for WA (Perth) is a home for your boat. Unless you can lower the mast, you're looking at a marina berth, which will cost a bit and have been difficult to get over recent years. With the declining economy, it might get a bit easier though. A lot of marina pens go from 12m LOA size to next 15m and the price jumps accordingly (like several thousand dollars per year), just something to consider in the equation.
Get out and see a few of the boats advertised for an initial look, look at various sizes, prices, ages etc. You'll start to know what is of interest and narrow the range of variables very quickly. Generally there's not the range nor competitive prices in WA compared to East, but enough to get you started, and you never know what you'll find. Also check out the boats are around the marinas. Bavaria appear to be popular here, there's quite a few in our marina. I don't know exactly why?
Browse Yachthub etc a couple of times every week and checkout what's for sale, watch the prices, what sells quickly, what reduces over time etc.
Our boat is at Hillarys, send me a PM if you'd like to take a look/sail. Our club is quite social and crew spots are easy to get, come along on weekend race days and at the briefing you'll get a ride. I'm sure just about all clubs are the same and it's a good way to check out lots of boats and speak with owners as well as get some experience.
Good advice Cisco... I would never sell house... you never know when you get sick or circumstances change and you need the land base again.... and where are all these lonely blokes you're talking about....lol
