Following orders was no defence at the Nuremberg trials - medics and pharmacists take heed.
Isn't the question about vaccinated people being potential carriers really just a problem with a lack of data? I think the numbers in the trials were something like 200 people in the placebo groups caught Covid and only about 10 of the vaccinated people did, hence the claim 95% effective.
To definitively rule in or out the possibility that vaccinated people can transmit the virus you would have to follow chains of transmission around them. If you could find a chain that started with or passed through one of them, you could say that the vaccine does not prevent transmission. But not finding a chain does not immediately rule out the possibility. At the moment, only a few people have been vaccinated and then become infected. Those people have been very alert to their symptoms as part of a trial, so have probably gone straight into quarantine.
Once millions of people have felt the prick there will be a chance enough contact tracing data will be gathered to say something more than maybe.
You might be able to get an idea of the answer by vaccinating a whole bunch of those Danish mink that are being culled, or maybe fresh ones, doing your best to infect them, and then seeing if they can infect vaccinated or naive animals.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
Isn't the question about vaccinated people being potential carriers really just a problem with a lack of data? I think the numbers in the trials were something like 200 people in the placebo groups caught Covid and only about 10 of the vaccinated people did, hence the claim 95% effective.
To definitively rule in or out the possibility that vaccinated people can transmit the virus you would have to follow chains of transmission around them. If you could find a chain that started with or passed through one of them, you could say that the vaccine does not prevent transmission. But not finding a chain does not immediately rule out the possibility. At the moment, only a few people have been vaccinated and then become infected. Those people have been very alert to their symptoms as part of a trial, so have probably gone straight into quarantine.
Once millions of people have felt the prick there will be a chance enough contact tracing data will be gathered to say something more than maybe.
You might be able to get an idea of the answer by vaccinating a whole bunch of those Danish mink that are being culled, or maybe fresh ones, doing your best to infect them, and then seeing if they can infect vaccinated or naive animals.
No way, Mr Milk.
Your concept is all about rational science, and there's no way we're doing that in 2020.
As an aside. (And I've stopped following so much so not too sure) it was a quick jump from maybe pangolin to definitely mink, and I'm yet to see a genome sequencing to support this theory, and now fingers are being directionally pointed at cats and dogs but again without sequencing. I guess science in 2020 is just the vibe it's Mabo a man's home is his castle.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..Mr Milk said..
Isn't the question about vaccinated people being potential carriers really just a problem with a lack of data? I think the numbers in the trials were something like 200 people in the placebo groups caught Covid and only about 10 of the vaccinated people did, hence the claim 95% effective.
To definitively rule in or out the possibility that vaccinated people can transmit the virus you would have to follow chains of transmission around them. If you could find a chain that started with or passed through one of them, you could say that the vaccine does not prevent transmission. But not finding a chain does not immediately rule out the possibility. At the moment, only a few people have been vaccinated and then become infected. Those people have been very alert to their symptoms as part of a trial, so have probably gone straight into quarantine.
Once millions of people have felt the prick there will be a chance enough contact tracing data will be gathered to say something more than maybe.
You might be able to get an idea of the answer by vaccinating a whole bunch of those Danish mink that are being culled, or maybe fresh ones, doing your best to infect them, and then seeing if they can infect vaccinated or naive animals.
No way, Mr Milk.
Your concept is all about rational science, and there's no way we're doing that in 2020.
As an aside. (And I've stopped following so much so not too sure) it was a quick jump from maybe pangolin to definitely mink, and I'm yet to see a genome sequencing to support this theory, and now fingers are being directionally pointed at cats and dogs but again without sequencing. I guess science in 2020 is just the vibe it's Mabo a man's home is his castle.
The mention of the minks was that the virus passed from humans to the mink (and then back) and then there is the risk of a more dangerous mutation coming from the mink back to humans. I.e. a seriously dangerous variant could evolve and survive in minks but be extremely deadly to us. I don't think there is any suggestion that it started from minks. Even the pangolin is not so much a likely culprit and I think the current majority belief is that is from bats.
Select to expand quotetheDoctor said..
Tough scrabble when V is only worth one point.
Except that's like saying
Everyone should take the vaccine because your son smoked ice he bought from a biker in a night club toilet
Select to expand quotehashbrown said..
Following orders was no defence at the Nuremberg trials - medics and pharmacists take heed.
yes obviously war criminals committing genocide are basically the same as medical professionals trying to prevent disease. You make sound points that bolster your argument.
Doctor Carrie Madej is the best person i have listened to at getting the other side across regarding the CV 19 vax.
A quote from her....
The future of Humanity is at Stake
The technology and medical side of what they are trying to unveil on the entire Human race is completely
experimental...you are the guinea pig you literally in the middle of one of the worst experiments I could Imagine.
Select to expand quoteCH3MTR4IL5 said..hashbrown said..
Following orders was no defence at the Nuremberg trials - medics and pharmacists take heed.
yes obviously war criminals committing genocide are basically the same as medical professionals trying to prevent disease. You make sound points that bolster your argument.
Yep, we've achieved a slight decrease in deaths in return for a heinous increase in child abuse and rape.
Why on earth anyone would make the choice of taking an experimental vaccine over using a medicine which has been demonstrated to have minimal side effects, has been around for forty years, is cheap and readily available, has undergone at least ten clinical trials over the past five months and has "mountains of evidence" that it is the only medicine which eliminates Covid 19
is utterly beyond me.
Didn't Darwin have a theory about this?
Im not a doctor nor do i claim to be but here is my realistic prediction. I dont think we are ever gonna get rid of this c_nt of a sickness.
The virus is well into third world countries whith non-existent health care who will never have this vaccine avaliable to them. Also there are always going to be people who are allergic to the vaccine or just dont want to get it. I reckon this vaccine will slow it down but i doubt we will ever get rid of it. It will just become like the flu, completely normal. We cant keep shutting the country down over it.
What about the different strains that the news is going on about now? UK strain, US strain will the vaccine be effective against both? Again i am not a scientist i am just stating an opionion. I hope i am wrong.
The worlds full of people like this
That's how they get away with the soap opera
Select to expand quotejapie said..
Why on earth anyone would make the choice of taking an experimental vaccine over using a medicine which has been demonstrated to have minimal side effects, has been around for forty years, is cheap and readily available, has undergone at least ten clinical trials over the past five months and has "mountains of evidence" that it is the only medicine which eliminates Covid 19
is utterly beyond me.
Didn't Darwin have a theory about this?
No
Spot on Doc with your latest post. There is a great song called Rona Wonderland that shares your view.
With the mainstream media refusing to air any of the thousands of medics that have grave concerns for the vax they have lost any semblance of credibility.
Select to expand quoteFlatty said..
Im not a doctor nor do i claim to be but here is my realistic prediction. I dont think we are ever gonna get rid of this c_nt of a sickness.
The virus is well into third world countries whith non-existent health care who will never have this vaccine avaliable to them. Also there are always going to be people who are allergic to the vaccine or just dont want to get it. I reckon this vaccine will slow it down but i doubt we will ever get rid of it. It will just become like the flu, completely normal. We cant keep shutting the country down over it.
What about the different strains that the news is going on about now? UK strain, US strain will the vaccine be effective against both? Again i am not a scientist i am just stating an opionion. I hope i am wrong.
Yeah its hard to see an exit ramp.. rich people take vaccine but can still spread the disease, hop on planes and go on cheap holidays and infect poor people.
a small part of me hopes that those who get the vaccine end up like an LMFAO clip
Select to expand quoteRelic said..
I'm astounded but not surprised; A fairly reliable litmus test to identify morons is Facebook/Instagram etc. membership, participation and reposting of false information. Memberships stand at about 3 billion globally which works out at about 40% of the world's population. Cause for concern when the moron population is approaching half the planet's population.
The unfounded, drivel being spouted by some in the posts above opposing CV vaccination beggars belief and provide further evidence the moron population is high.
Consider for just for a moment all the deadly petulence that has been eradicated or controlled with vaccines; Polio,
Small Pox, Diptheria, Tuberculosis, Hooping Cough, Malaria, Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox, Ebola, HIV, HPV,Influenza but to name a few. What a great place Planet Earth would be if morons and witch doctors had their way and convinced everyone they would grow an ear on your chin or something equally ridiculous would occur if administered vaccines. Yes reactions occur in minute pecentages which are far outweighed by the benefit.
It seems the fact that extensive scientific trials have been conducted seems to have been conviently omitted to bolster spurious argument.
Yes vaccine development has been accelerated. So have other technologies. Science gets better and faster as time goes on. The most eminent scientists in immunology on earth have been developing vaccines in collaboration like we have never seen in history. That is why the fast delivery has been possible. Kim Kardashian or Kylie Jenna on Insta won't have that fact. One actually has to read multiple reliably sourced articles and scientific journals in order to gain an informed opinion.
To give any of the ill informed, paranoid, inane, simplistic utter nonsense suggested above oxygen is to join the ranks
of the unhinged morons.
The scientific fact is that vaccines save lives. And so will the CV vaccine.
Proven scientific fact vs fallacious, inflammatory, paranoid drivel devoid of evidence deceminated via the likes of FB.
The choice is obvious....maybe not if you're a moron.
Bump
Select to expand quoteRelic said..Relic said..
I'm astounded but not surprised; A fairly reliable litmus test to identify morons is Facebook/Instagram etc. membership, participation and reposting of false information. Memberships stand at about 3 billion globally which works out at about 40% of the world's population. Cause for concern when the moron population is approaching half the planet's population.
The unfounded, drivel being spouted by some in the posts above opposing CV vaccination beggars belief and provide further evidence the moron population is high.
Consider for just for a moment all the deadly petulence that has been eradicated or controlled with vaccines; Polio,
Small Pox, Diptheria, Tuberculosis, Hooping Cough, Malaria, Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox, Ebola, HIV, HPV,Influenza but to name a few. What a great place Planet Earth would be if morons and witch doctors had their way and convinced everyone they would grow an ear on your chin or something equally ridiculous would occur if administered vaccines. Yes reactions occur in minute pecentages which are far outweighed by the benefit.
It seems the fact that extensive scientific trials have been conducted seems to have been conviently omitted to bolster spurious argument.
Yes vaccine development has been accelerated. So have other technologies. Science gets better and faster as time goes on. The most eminent scientists in immunology on earth have been developing vaccines in collaboration like we have never seen in history. That is why the fast delivery has been possible. Kim Kardashian or Kylie Jenna on Insta won't have that fact. One actually has to read multiple reliably sourced articles and scientific journals in order to gain an informed opinion.
To give any of the ill informed, paranoid, inane, simplistic utter nonsense suggested above oxygen is to join the ranks
of the unhinged morons.
The scientific fact is that vaccines save lives. And so will the CV vaccine.
Proven scientific fact vs fallacious, inflammatory, paranoid drivel devoid of evidence deceminated via the likes of FB.
The choice is obvious....maybe not if you're a moron.
Bump
Ermigherd !
Are morons taking over ?
Will there be a vaccine for that ?
Select to expand quoteRelic said..Relic said..
I'm astounded but not surprised; A fairly reliable litmus test to identify morons is Facebook/Instagram etc. membership, participation and reposting of false information. Memberships stand at about 3 billion globally which works out at about 40% of the world's population. Cause for concern when the moron population is approaching half the planet's population.
The unfounded, drivel being spouted by some in the posts above opposing CV vaccination beggars belief and provide further evidence the moron population is high.
Consider for just for a moment all the deadly petulence that has been eradicated or controlled with vaccines; Polio,
Small Pox, Diptheria, Tuberculosis, Hooping Cough, Malaria, Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox, Ebola, HIV, HPV,Influenza but to name a few. What a great place Planet Earth would be if morons and witch doctors had their way and convinced everyone they would grow an ear on your chin or something equally ridiculous would occur if administered vaccines. Yes reactions occur in minute pecentages which are far outweighed by the benefit.
It seems the fact that extensive scientific trials have been conducted seems to have been conviently omitted to bolster spurious argument.
Yes vaccine development has been accelerated. So have other technologies. Science gets better and faster as time goes on. The most eminent scientists in immunology on earth have been developing vaccines in collaboration like we have never seen in history. That is why the fast delivery has been possible. Kim Kardashian or Kylie Jenna on Insta won't have that fact. One actually has to read multiple reliably sourced articles and scientific journals in order to gain an informed opinion.
To give any of the ill informed, paranoid, inane, simplistic utter nonsense suggested above oxygen is to join the ranks
of the unhinged morons.
The scientific fact is that vaccines save lives. And so will the CV vaccine.
Proven scientific fact vs fallacious, inflammatory, paranoid drivel devoid of evidence deceminated via the likes of FB.
The choice is obvious....maybe not if you're a moron.
Bump
Bumpity-bump.Select to expand quotekiterboy said..Relic said..
It seems the fact that extensive scientific trials have been conducted seems to have been conviently omitted to bolster spurious argument.
Being that those of the general public who receive the vaccination are being asked to monitor and report adverse side effects, it seems the scientific trials have not been as extensive as you would assert. In fact it would appear that they have just expanded the study group size, exponentially.Relic said..
Yes vaccine development has been accelerated. So have other technologies. Science gets better and faster as time goes on. The most eminent scientists in immunology on earth have been developing vaccines in collaboration like we have never seen in history. That is why the fast delivery has been possible.
Ah, so they used time-travel technology to determine what the long-term side effects could be? They must have checked the long-term results of the vaccination, including interaction of the vaccine with existing medications...possible birth defects in babies born from mothers who had the vaccination...and other results/effects that can't be known until after a sufficient amount of time has passed.
Sure, fast delivery is possible, but this isn't like shrinking the size of a computer chip. Long term effects need to be considered, especially in rushed medicine.Relic said..
The scientific fact is that vaccines save lives.
Properly developed vaccines save lives. FTFY.
Select to expand quoteRelic said..Relic said..
I'm astounded but not surprised; A fairly reliable litmus test to identify morons is Facebook/Instagram etc. membership, participation and reposting of false information. Memberships stand at about 3 billion globally which works out at about 40% of the world's population. Cause for concern when the moron population is approaching half the planet's population.
The unfounded, drivel being spouted by some in the posts above opposing CV vaccination beggars belief and provide further evidence the moron population is high.
Consider for just for a moment all the deadly petulence that has been eradicated or controlled with vaccines; Polio,
Small Pox, Diptheria, Tuberculosis, Hooping Cough, Malaria, Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox, Ebola, HIV, HPV,Influenza but to name a few. What a great place Planet Earth would be if morons and witch doctors had their way and convinced everyone they would grow an ear on your chin or something equally ridiculous would occur if administered vaccines. Yes reactions occur in minute pecentages which are far outweighed by the benefit.
It seems the fact that extensive scientific trials have been conducted seems to have been conviently omitted to bolster spurious argument.
Yes vaccine development has been accelerated. So have other technologies. Science gets better and faster as time goes on. The most eminent scientists in immunology on earth have been developing vaccines in collaboration like we have never seen in history. That is why the fast delivery has been possible. Kim Kardashian or Kylie Jenna on Insta won't have that fact. One actually has to read multiple reliably sourced articles and scientific journals in order to gain an informed opinion.
To give any of the ill informed, paranoid, inane, simplistic utter nonsense suggested above oxygen is to join the ranks
of the unhinged morons.
The scientific fact is that vaccines save lives. And so will the CV vaccine.
Proven scientific fact vs fallacious, inflammatory, paranoid drivel devoid of evidence deceminated via the likes of FB.
The choice is obvious....maybe not if you're a moron.
Bump
Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe you're on the moron side....?
A doctor in Boston with a shellfish allergy developed a severe allergic reaction after receiving Moderna's coronavirus vaccine on Thursday, the New York Times reported on Friday, citing the doctor.Dr. Hossein Sadrzadeh, a geriatric oncology fellow at Boston Medical Center, said he had a severe reaction almost immediately after being vaccinated, feeling dizzy and with a racing heart, the NYT reported.
Remember there are no side effects
Select to expand quotehashbrown said..
A doctor in Boston with a shellfish allergy developed a severe allergic reaction after receiving Moderna's coronavirus vaccine on Thursday, the New York Times reported on Friday, citing the doctor.Dr. Hossein Sadrzadeh, a geriatric oncology fellow at Boston Medical Center, said he had a severe reaction almost immediately after being vaccinated, feeling dizzy and with a racing heart, the NYT reported.
Remember there are no side effects
Yeah, I think this would be newsworthy if it were about someone that had no allergies and then reacted to the vaccine.
If you have an allergy, I think it would suck as you would need to be very concious of anything you ate, or in this case injected, just in case it has an allergan that would set you off.
I feel quite fortunate that I have no allergies, but they are increasingly common, so people with them should be aware, especially if they are kids and not 100% sure of what would set them off.
