Select to expand quoteHarrow said...
How often would there NOT be a shark within 2km radius when you are surfing? I'm guessing only about 50% of the time?
I have no idea, what do the fishermen reckon?
7-15 years ago i often targeted sharks / mulloway from the beaches / reefs around Perth after tripod fishing trigg point got boring and let me tell you it was hard work and we never saw sharks along the reef and beaches. That's fishing 7-10 times a week regardless of the weather or season. There have been countless reports of shark activity in that same stretch in the last few months.
I landed a solid 5 footer in front of Cleggies / Yello, another couple of smaller whalers at Brighton and at one stage small hammerheads (30-60cm) were thick and taking mulies at Swanbourne drain but that was it. Nowhere near as many salmon compared to this year but the reefs were still full of yellow eye and sea mullet and now you could float a fresh fish head under a balloon and be hooked up within a couple of hours i think.
.
Once you see a 5 metre white You and mates be be running on the water like jeszus !.You wouldn't even see it. Looking at the pics That's just a non maneater curious taxman having a swim. He probally gona hang around Id name that shart 250. new friend ;-)
Well over here in NSW the lifeguard can actually fine you although they never do as they get paid by the state government to lifeguard not write up fines. We have council rangers for that who are paid a commission for the privilage of catching you in an unpaid beach spot.
I think the bondi lifeguards can fine you for staying out in the water. There you are likely to be on camera as well.
I currently stay up the north coast of NSW and we dont have lifesavers or beach inspectors. Your free to go out whenever you like, monster swells, with the sharks,stingers no flags so you can ride your board when ever you want. So how have surfers and swimmers fared in the area.
Three helicopter rescues in the last 6 months, 2 fatality from drowning, when a man tried to save his son and one fell into the water. The surrounding unpatrolled beaches have betwen 6 and 10 fatalities.
The volunteer patrolled beach, none.
I have helped in 2 rescues at the beach myself during summer when surfers have ventured out too far.
The beach holds 3-5 surf contests a year. We have lots of sharks, the whites are on the increase. When someone has the good grace to volunteer to protect your friends, kids and loved ones who cant swim and surf like a seasoned surfer, give them the curtesy of swimming in.
I often get called in when swimming with my nephews at bondi, (happened 10-15 times now) when I bodysurf out to the surf peak. Its mushy and weak between the flags. Every time I have swum in the lifesavers will come up, apoligise for asking me to come in as they can see i am a competent swimmer but point out that the backpackers and tourists cant read the surf like me and will follow me out. I never have been met with a harsh word or attitude and let me tell you I dont think its ever been all time when I have been out swimming at bondi. When I come down on a saturday and the same people are putting in free time teaching my nephews in nippers and joking around in their spare time I apreciate what they do.
Just a question on this day was the surf all time. Was it worth staying out. I have been lucky to surf some of NSW best spots with a group of friends 15 years ago when we would catch any wave that we wanted. If it was pumping the whole town would be on it and i had some epic sessions. If the waves were 6-8ft perfect barrels with double ups then I would be as annoyed as anything if I got snaked or dropped in on.
I would pay the fine, then donate the same amount to the surfclub with the beach inspector. Give someone else good karma. Add arseholes really cant handle when you do this reverse psychology stuff.
But myself down for doing a season as a volunteer lifeguard and then see the event from both perspectives.
Sounds like a good issue for today tonight or one of those other tabloid TV shows posing as cutting edge news . You might even be able to sell your story and make some cash out of it. So look on the bright side 
If you are unhappy with it - follow the procedures and take the matter to court. The Judge will probably be annoyed that this sort of case is clogging up their court and throw the matter out. You might even get the environmental defenders office to represent you.
Select to expand quotejbshack said...mitchupc said..jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??
It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.
How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean 
(Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.
SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that.. 
Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out 
Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?
Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.
And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?
Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.
Unbelievable, some of you clowns.
For all the keyboard lawyers buster's link to the City of Stirling local by-laws pretty much have it covered. Local government are experts at giving out pissy fines and making them stick and it will take more then ten minutes of internet searching to come up with a way to get off.
Local Government Property Local Law 2009 Under the powers conferred on it by the Local Government Act 1995 and under all other powers enabling it, the Council of the City of Stirling resolved on 7 April 2009 to make this local law.
Part 1 - Preliminary 1.1 Citation This local law may be cited as the City of Stirling Local Government Property Local Law 2009.
1.2 Commencement This local law commences on the 14th day after the day on which it is published in the Government Gazette.
1.3 Application This local law applies – (a) throughout the district; and (b) in the water area for a distance of 200 metres seawards, from the western boundary, along the shoreline into the Indian Ocean, as approved by the Governor under section 3.6 of the Local Government Act 1995 as published in the Government Gazette on 31 March 2009, No. 50, page 1029.
“authorised person” means a person authorised by the City under section 9.10 of the Act to perform any of the functions of an authorised person under this local law;
5.3 Powers of authorised persons or surf life saving club members
(1) An authorised person employed by the City may perform all or any of the following functions in relation to a beach -
(a) patrol any beach;
(b) carry out any activity on any beach;
(c) erect signs designating bathing areas and signs regulating, prohibiting or restricting specified activities on the whole or any part of a beach or in or on the water adjacent to the beach and to direct persons on the beach or in or on the water to comply with such signs;
(d) temporarily enclose any area with rope, hessian, wire or any other means for the conduct of surf life saving club activities; and
(e) direct persons to leave the water adjacent to a beach during dangerous conditions or if a shark is suspected of being in the vicinity of a beach.
9.1 Authorised person to be obeyed A person on local government property must obey any lawful direction of an authorised person and must not in any way obstruct or hinder an authorised person in the execution of his or her duties.
9.2 Persons may be directed to leave local government property An authorised person may direct a person to leave local government property where he or she reasonably suspects that the person has contravened a provision of any written law.
So the City of Stirling does have authority below the high tide mark, the ranger/beach inspector/clubbie/authorised person can direct you to leave the water and you can get a fine for it.
Next time... stay in the water if you're far enough out to pretend you can't hear him, when you get out, apologise and feign misunderstanding or something, be polite. Old mate ranger may have already decided to give you a ticket and there's nothing you can do to undo that but if he hasn't yet decided to give you a ticket turning into a complete cock-head will only convince him to start writing. More people talk themselves into tickets than out of them.
And take it one step further, go back to your car, or the wife's car and he's got your rego. Once he has that he can get the registered owner's a couple of different ways. Then there's probably options to place a legal obligation to provide your details as the person using the vehicle, or alternatively they can probably just issue the fine to the registered owner (like they do for parking) and make the owner nominate you as the person involved if they want to get off.
The ranger doesn't even have to tell you something is illegal or have signs up before they bust you for it either. That little loop-hole is one of the oldest laws of the land. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat
Refuse to give your name to the ranger and section 16 Criminal Investigations (Identifying Peoples) Act comes into play, that's about when the police will get involved and you just dig yourself a deeper hole. Not giving your name to old mate ranger could (though highly unlikely) land you in prison for up to 12 months.
Nanny state? probably, but that's a moot point once the fine is issued, the best to find a way out of it is not to be issued the fine in the first place.
Select to expand quoteChris6791 said..
For all the keyboard lawyers buster's link to the City of Stirling local by-laws pretty much have it covered. Local government are experts at giving out pissy fines and making them stick and it will take more then ten minutes of internet searching to come up with a way to get off.
Local Government Property Local Law 2009 Under the powers conferred on it by the Local Government Act 1995 and under all other powers enabling it, the Council of the City of Stirling resolved on 7 April 2009 to make this local law.
Part 1 - Preliminary 1.1 Citation This local law may be cited as the City of Stirling Local Government Property Local Law 2009.
1.2 Commencement This local law commences on the 14th day after the day on which it is published in the Government Gazette.
1.3 Application This local law applies – (a) throughout the district; and (b) in the water area for a distance of 200 metres seawards, from the western boundary, along the shoreline into the Indian Ocean, as approved by the Governor under section 3.6 of the Local Government Act 1995 as published in the Government Gazette on 31 March 2009, No. 50, page 1029.
“authorised person” means a person authorised by the City under section 9.10 of the Act to perform any of the functions of an authorised person under this local law;
5.3 Powers of authorised persons or surf life saving club members
(1) An authorised person employed by the City may perform all or any of the following functions in relation to a beach -
(a) patrol any beach;
(b) carry out any activity on any beach;
(c) erect signs designating bathing areas and signs regulating, prohibiting or restricting specified activities on the whole or any part of a beach or in or on the water adjacent to the beach and to direct persons on the beach or in or on the water to comply with such signs;
(d) temporarily enclose any area with rope, hessian, wire or any other means for the conduct of surf life saving club activities; and
(e) direct persons to leave the water adjacent to a beach during dangerous conditions or if a shark is suspected of being in the vicinity of a beach.
9.1 Authorised person to be obeyed A person on local government property must obey any lawful direction of an authorised person and must not in any way obstruct or hinder an authorised person in the execution of his or her duties.
9.2 Persons may be directed to leave local government property An authorised person may direct a person to leave local government property where he or she reasonably suspects that the person has contravened a provision of any written law.
So the City of Stirling does have authority below the high tide mark, the ranger/beach inspector/clubbie/authorised person can direct you to leave the water and you can get a fine for it.
Next time... stay in the water if you're far enough out to pretend you can't hear him, when you get out, apologise and feign misunderstanding or something, be polite. Old mate ranger may have already decided to give you a ticket and there's nothing you can do to undo that but if he hasn't yet decided to give you a ticket turning into a complete cock-head will only convince him to start writing. More people talk themselves into tickets than out of them.
And take it one step further, go back to your car, or the wife's car and he's got your rego. Once he has that he can get the registered owner's a couple of different ways. Then there's probably options to place a legal obligation to provide your details as the person using the vehicle, or alternatively they can probably just issue the fine to the registered owner (like they do for parking) and make the owner nominate you as the person involved if they want to get off.
The ranger doesn't even have to tell you something is illegal or have signs up before they bust you for it either. That little loop-hole is one of the oldest laws of the land. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat
Refuse to give your name to the ranger and section 16 Criminal Investigations (Identifying Peoples) Act comes into play, that's about when the police will get involved and you just dig yourself a deeper hole. Not giving your name to old mate ranger could (though highly unlikely) land you in prison for up to 12 months.
Nanny state? probably, but that's a moot point once the fine is issued, the best to find a way out of it is not to be issued the fine in the first place.
Thanks for going to the effort of finding this mate, interesting that a local gov law extends as far out as 200m, looks like the city of stirling unsurprisingly has it well stitched up
lesson learnt . $250 fine for being an idiot and going back to your car lol . should have just gone for a walk along the beach or something . THEN gone back to your car .
I hope you fight and contest this fine mate.
It is the most ridiculous Negative-Nancy story I've ever read, and sadly it's true!
WTF is this country coming to?
P.C. is a disease I tell you - it really is
People are so lonely out their with their minds awash with internet and social-media fluffy-coated rubbish that we've become sanitised and bored with life effectively. I see it and read about it a lot now:
* over cautious parents that get easily stressed,
* police that are trigger happy,
* general public seeing something "out of order" and it's suddenly alarm bells and panic stations - "ooh look, a kid pooped onto the pavement - quick call the cops for feral disgusting behaviour!!!" (yet kid has digestion issues or it was an accident. Little kids do **** their pants people!).
Mate - fight this ridiculous fine please, I beg of you, for all our sanity, something to be saved from today's world madness.
What's next? A fine for not having both my hands on the steering wheel momentarily whilst I pick my nose?! It's none of your business coppa!
Give me a break
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..jbshack said...mitchupc said..jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??
It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.
How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean (Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.
SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that..
Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out
Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?
Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.
And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?
Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.
Unbelievable, some of you clowns.
You idiot, he got the fine for not obeying the local Authorities directive. Not for surfing with a shark..
By your argument i could argue a speeding fine by saying "Im experienced at driving well over the required speed limit so don't fine me" 
Select to expand quotejbshack said..kiterboy said..jbshack said...mitchupc said..jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??
It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.
How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean (Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.
SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that..
Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out
Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?
Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.
And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?
Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.
Unbelievable, some of you clowns.
You idiot, he got the fine for not obeying the local Authorities directive. Not for surfing with a shark..
By your argument i could argue a speeding fine by saying "Im experienced at driving well over the required speed limit so don't fine me"
Select to expand quotebusterwa said..jbshack said..busterwa said..
You could probably say the sharks were always there just didn't have the internet and tec to share the sighting Mabe its just the shark sightings that have increased.
In my opinion
a lot of the sighting are relatively insignificant for example a 2.5 metre shark unknow species Its a sighting To me that's not a risk? Its the 4m +you don't see that's the risk.
But when they sound the alarm, they don't use different alarms for a 4mtr Great White or a 2mtr bronzy, so how are supposed to know 
What if someone rang in a alarm to SLSWA reporting a 4 mtr, should they not clear the beach, until they have a positive measurement
Its not really that hard to obey beach warnings is it
I was just questioning some of there reports. A lot of the reports there are public species unidentified. Most of the sharks reported sighting are under 3 metres? I understand the warnings but a 2-3.5 metres shark in an area would be a low risk even if it was a white or a tiger. To many bull**** spotting's of the uneducated public.
I understand the point you were making, but my point was that a few of the reports during the same period were actually of large Great Whites, especially at Trigg, Over 3.5 m. The issue as has been presented in this thread is people no longer will take a shark sighting as serous threat, because of so many reports about small bronze whalers.
SO Mitchupc gets a shark warning to get out of the water, and then assumes its just a small bronze but it could in fact be a large great white. 
Thats the problem with the helicopter service. Why not use the loud hailers or a light system on the bottom that flashes with any real threat. Theres nothing more unsettling then have a chopper hover near you, do circles and then fly off.. Leaving you wondering just what they were looking at 
Also Mitchupc id been glad you got the warning to get out. When the last attack occurred of Mindarie i was surfing with others less than 1 km away. We also saw a chopper circling and wondered what was happening. Our council took over 1.5 hours to come and clear our beach 
Select to expand quotemitchupc said..
Hey guys just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced something similar to my run in with the local council...
Prior to this i honestly thought us surfers could only be advised/warned but not forced to leave the water by law..
So a few weeks ago now between trigg and scarborough (perth metro beaches) i was surfing with 3 others when the beach shark alarm was sounded, (the channel 7 chopper was hovering over the water a couple km up the coast at mettams pool) so i figured i was obviously in no imminent danger and decided to stay out. A beach inspector then showed up in his car advising there was a shark up the coast and that the beach was closed so any surfers must exit the water (over his loudspeaker).
The other surfers then paddled to a peak down the beach and i headed in to an inside reform bank that was breaking onto the sand (i surely thought i could surf the shorey until they reopened the beach). After surfing a few waves onto the sand i was then told by the beach inspector over his loudspeaker that he would call the police if i didnt get out and said i was going to be fined. As soon as i exit the water the beach inspector is in wait and stands tall over me telling me that "im not going anywhere" and presents a $250 fine form and asks for my details. I argue that a shark down the coast is obviously not an imminent threat and that the idea of being fined for something like this is just ridiculous especially as there was still other surfers in the water down the beach. I declined giving my details to write up the fine and started walking back to my car. (i figured that the beach inspector may have realised the stupidness of the situation as initially he didnt follow me). Anyway as i am driving off i see him in the carpark with phone ready snapping a pic of my number plate. $250 fine in the mail 2 weeks later.....just wow.
Has anybody else had a similar situation? Wondering whether or not i should lodge an appeal (anybody out there with some legal background that could help?) I Can put up some pics of the fine if needed
Cheers :)
Going back to your first post. SO you saw a media helicopter filming in the distance. But there were actually days when simultaneous alarms of a small shark at Toms whilst another shark alarm of a Great White between Scarbs and Trigg. The truth is you didn't know what size the shark alarm was for, why not learn from the experience, the beach inspectors are simply doing a job, if you had actually been attacked and died, that inspector would be drawn over the coals for not doing his job correctly. Im fairy sure his heart would have been racing, he would have been emotional worried for peoples safety and then to have people ignore his constant, simple warning maybe he took offence and thought he would teach you a lesson, seems he has at least done a service by getting people talking about the problem.
SO a pat on the back for him IMHO
Stupidity is on your part. I missed a plane check in the other day by 2 minutes.. I was annoyed, really cranky but still it was my problem, i caused the issue and sucked it up and paid the extra $300 for the next flight.
Select to expand quotejbshack said..mitchupc said..
Hey guys just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced something similar to my run in with the local council...
Prior to this i honestly thought us surfers could only be advised/warned but not forced to leave the water by law..
So a few weeks ago now between trigg and scarborough (perth metro beaches) i was surfing with 3 others when the beach shark alarm was sounded, (the channel 7 chopper was hovering over the water a couple km up the coast at mettams pool) so i figured i was obviously in no imminent danger and decided to stay out. A beach inspector then showed up in his car advising there was a shark up the coast and that the beach was closed so any surfers must exit the water (over his loudspeaker).
The other surfers then paddled to a peak down the beach and i headed in to an inside reform bank that was breaking onto the sand (i surely thought i could surf the shorey until they reopened the beach). After surfing a few waves onto the sand i was then told by the beach inspector over his loudspeaker that he would call the police if i didnt get out and said i was going to be fined. As soon as i exit the water the beach inspector is in wait and stands tall over me telling me that "im not going anywhere" and presents a $250 fine form and asks for my details. I argue that a shark down the coast is obviously not an imminent threat and that the idea of being fined for something like this is just ridiculous especially as there was still other surfers in the water down the beach. I declined giving my details to write up the fine and started walking back to my car. (i figured that the beach inspector may have realised the stupidness of the situation as initially he didnt follow me). Anyway as i am driving off i see him in the carpark with phone ready snapping a pic of my number plate. $250 fine in the mail 2 weeks later.....just wow.
Has anybody else had a similar situation? Wondering whether or not i should lodge an appeal (anybody out there with some legal background that could help?) I Can put up some pics of the fine if needed
Cheers :)
Going back to your first post. SO you saw a media helicopter filming in the distance. But there were actually days when simultaneous alarms of a small shark at Toms whilst another shark alarm of a Great White between Scarbs and Trigg. The truth is you didn't know what size the shark alarm was for, why not learn from the experience, the beach inspectors are simply doing a job, if you had actually been attacked and died, that inspector would be drawn over the coals for not doing his job correctly. Im fairy sure his heart would have been racing, he would have been emotional worried for peoples safety and then to have people ignore his constant, simple warning maybe he took offence and thought he would teach you a lesson, seems he has at least done a service by getting people talking about the problem.
SO a pat on the back for him IMHO
Stupidity is on your part. I missed a plane check in the other day by 2 minutes.. I was annoyed, really cranky but still it was my problem, i caused the issue and sucked it up and paid the extra $300 for the next flight.
Not going to bother replying to you again, but if this inspector is so "emotional worried for peoples safety" he wouldn't be up off the beach in the carpark chasing a number plate pic whilst there is an apparently imminent shark threat in the water...
so it seems you still haven't learnt your lesson not to walk straight back to your car lol
Select to expand quotemitchupc said..jbshack said..mitchupc said..
Hey guys just wanted to see if anyone else has experienced something similar to my run in with the local council...
Prior to this i honestly thought us surfers could only be advised/warned but not forced to leave the water by law..
So a few weeks ago now between trigg and scarborough (perth metro beaches) i was surfing with 3 others when the beach shark alarm was sounded, (the channel 7 chopper was hovering over the water a couple km up the coast at mettams pool) so i figured i was obviously in no imminent danger and decided to stay out. A beach inspector then showed up in his car advising there was a shark up the coast and that the beach was closed so any surfers must exit the water (over his loudspeaker).
The other surfers then paddled to a peak down the beach and i headed in to an inside reform bank that was breaking onto the sand (i surely thought i could surf the shorey until they reopened the beach). After surfing a few waves onto the sand i was then told by the beach inspector over his loudspeaker that he would call the police if i didnt get out and said i was going to be fined. As soon as i exit the water the beach inspector is in wait and stands tall over me telling me that "im not going anywhere" and presents a $250 fine form and asks for my details. I argue that a shark down the coast is obviously not an imminent threat and that the idea of being fined for something like this is just ridiculous especially as there was still other surfers in the water down the beach. I declined giving my details to write up the fine and started walking back to my car. (i figured that the beach inspector may have realised the stupidness of the situation as initially he didnt follow me). Anyway as i am driving off i see him in the carpark with phone ready snapping a pic of my number plate. $250 fine in the mail 2 weeks later.....just wow.
Has anybody else had a similar situation? Wondering whether or not i should lodge an appeal (anybody out there with some legal background that could help?) I Can put up some pics of the fine if needed
Cheers :)
Going back to your first post. SO you saw a media helicopter filming in the distance. But there were actually days when simultaneous alarms of a small shark at Toms whilst another shark alarm of a Great White between Scarbs and Trigg. The truth is you didn't know what size the shark alarm was for, why not learn from the experience, the beach inspectors are simply doing a job, if you had actually been attacked and died, that inspector would be drawn over the coals for not doing his job correctly. Im fairy sure his heart would have been racing, he would have been emotional worried for peoples safety and then to have people ignore his constant, simple warning maybe he took offence and thought he would teach you a lesson, seems he has at least done a service by getting people talking about the problem.
SO a pat on the back for him IMHO
Stupidity is on your part. I missed a plane check in the other day by 2 minutes.. I was annoyed, really cranky but still it was my problem, i caused the issue and sucked it up and paid the extra $300 for the next flight.
Not going to bother replying to you again, but if this inspector is so "emotional worried for peoples safety" he wouldn't be up off the beach in the carpark chasing a number plate pic whilst there is an apparently imminent shark threat in the water...
How many other people were in the water?
Select to expand quoteHarrow said..
What's next, ban motorbikes when it is raining?
There are drunk people in town. Potential violence. Everyone out or a $250 fine.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..Harrow said..
What's next, ban motorbikes when it is raining?
There are drunk people in town. Potential violence. Everyone out or a $250 fine.
are drunk people chewing peoples legs off? thats terrible.
Select to expand quotemitchupc said..
So a few weeks ago now between trigg and scarborough (perth metro beaches)
A lot of people responding seem to be from outside of WA else I'm sure someone would've caught on to this - the waves in Perth are rubbish and absolutely not worth arguing over. The lifeguard is just doing his miserable job.
I'm sure there's things he'd rather do than argue with wannabe rebels who surf 1 foot closeouts.
Lucky down at Yallingup we never see City Rangers
Sounds like revenue raising simular to parking fines...fine the sharks for overcrowding
Select to expand quotejbshack said...kiterboy said..jbshack said...mitchupc said..jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??
It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.
How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean (Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.
SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that..
Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out
Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?
Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.
And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?
Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.
Unbelievable, some of you clowns.
You idiot, he got the fine for not obeying the local Authorities directive. Not for surfing with a shark..
By your argument i could argue a speeding fine by saying "Im experienced at driving well over the required speed limit so don't fine me"
Ah, I see you have moronic skills at reading too.
I spose I should have known from your moronic spelling skills, moron.
Telling him to 'except' the fine. Idiot.
The point I'm making is that moronic 'up-the-arse-takers', like yourself are more than happy to give up your freedoms and bend over, all because some moron (sic) in authority has decided that you are not adult enough to use your own judgement and take your own personal risks.
And more than just that, you are more than happy to advocate others should be bending over too.
It's people like you, with your pussy-assed attitudes, is why our personal freedoms are being eroded more and more everyday.
And you call me an idiot. Laughable.
P.S.- sorry for using big words, let me know how you go understanding the point. I'm happy to break it down into monosylabic words for you.
P.P.S.- your strawman about the speeding is ridiculous. Idiot.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..jbshack said...kiterboy said..jbshack said...mitchupc said..jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??
It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.
How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean (Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.
SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that..
Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out
Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?
Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.
And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?
Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.
Unbelievable, some of you clowns.
You idiot, he got the fine for not obeying the local Authorities directive. Not for surfing with a shark..
By your argument i could argue a speeding fine by saying "Im experienced at driving well over the required speed limit so don't fine me"
Ah, I see you have moronic skills at reading too.
I spose I should have known from your moronic spelling skills, moron.
Telling him to 'except' the fine. Idiot.
The point I'm making is that moronic 'up-the-arse-takers', like yourself are more than happy to give up your freedoms and bend over, all because some moron (sic) in authority has decided that you are not adult enough to use your own judgement and take your own personal risks.
And more than just that, you are more than happy to advocate others should be bending over too.
It's people like you, with your pussy-assed attitudes, is why our personal freedoms are being eroded more and more everyday.
And you call me an idiot. Laughable.
P.S.- sorry for using big words, let me know how you go understanding the point. I'm happy to break it down into monosylabic words for you.
You're so smart, you should go next door and agree with the guy who got caught drunk driving twice over the legal limit and tell him to fight the charges, how dare those pesky authorities put out laws to protect the overtly stupid.. You'd make the ideal spokesman for that group..
Select to expand quotejbshack said...kiterboy said..jbshack said...kiterboy said..jbshack said...mitchupc said..jbshack said..
The issue is you see the helicopter but really have no idea if there is one shark or more sharks close by. Next you by not getting out of the water set an example to others also not obey local law enforcement, imagine some young kids see you turn up your nose and do the same thing? What if one is attacked? Should then bare some responsibility for their attack. Finally I'm not sure that volunteer surf life saving is a paid gig ??
It's a first world problem your complaining about. Except the consequence and move on.
How about i give you some context, This day there had already been an earlier reported sighting of a shark up the coast (at mettams pool), I was surfing south trigg beach that borders on scarborough (anyone local to the area will know there is a fair distance between these spots). You say that by seeing the helicopter up the coast i have no idea.. channel 7 are regularly on the scene quicksmart of any opportunity for some shark footage for the 6pm news, so yeah when i saw them down the coast i took it as a pretty good indication. The beach inspector even said the sighting was up the coast but still fined me. If he had said i was in real danger/had actually sighted a shark himself then yeah no worries im out of the water. With the distance between where i was surfing and the shark sighting he may as well have warned me that there are sharks in the ocean (Earlier in the year scarborough was closed due to a shark sighting 6KM OFFSHORE) Also you say that im setting a bad example? Ive been surfing around this area for 15+years with plenty of shark alarms throughout this in which every occasion it is disregarded by at least a few water users and i never saw them hassled and fined, maybe you could go tell them they should have set a better example for me.
SO who is really to blame, as a adult you are deemed responsible for your actions and you chose not to obey direct instruction of someone in clear authority who was trying to prevent you from being attacked by a shark. What a prick hey, he must feel so good about that..
Also just because the chopper is hovering somewhere else, doesn't mean there are not more sharks. The first response for beach inspectors must be for absolute safety of water users, even if they are too stupid to understand the risk they could be putting themselves in by not getting out
Hang on a second...
Doesn't the water-using segment of the anti-cull-shark-hugger brigade go by the mantra, 'I choose to go in the water knowing full well the potential risks of doing so, in regards to sharks having a bit of a taste of me; I know the risks and CHOOSE to take them. So go suck it, don't kill my misunderstood cuddly friends!'?
Yet here we are, a situation in which an EXPERIENCED surfer has calculated the risks and CHOSEN a course of action, in this case to keep surfing.
And you bandwagoners are now contradicting yourselves by berating his decision, the SAME one you choose to make, and saying he should just take it up the arse?
Sharks are in the ocean. You know the risks, you should be fined too.
Unbelievable, some of you clowns.
You idiot, he got the fine for not obeying the local Authorities directive. Not for surfing with a shark..
By your argument i could argue a speeding fine by saying "Im experienced at driving well over the required speed limit so don't fine me"
Ah, I see you have moronic skills at reading too.
I spose I should have known from your moronic spelling skills, moron.
Telling him to 'except' the fine. Idiot.
The point I'm making is that moronic 'up-the-arse-takers', like yourself are more than happy to give up your freedoms and bend over, all because some moron (sic) in authority has decided that you are not adult enough to use your own judgement and take your own personal risks.
And more than just that, you are more than happy to advocate others should be bending over too.
It's people like you, with your pussy-assed attitudes, is why our personal freedoms are being eroded more and more everyday.
And you call me an idiot. Laughable.
P.S.- sorry for using big words, let me know how you go understanding the point. I'm happy to break it down into monosylabic words for you.
You're so smart, you should go next door and agree with the guy who got caught drunk driving twice over the legal limit and tell him to fight the charges, how dare those pesky authorities put out laws to protect the overtly stupid.. You'd make the ideal spokesman for that group..
Damn, you're just so stupid.
Please give us a realistic comparison between this surfer being fined for making his own personal decision to put only himself at risk situation and your pathetic strawman attempt at sounding smart.
Obviously you can't.
Your internet posting freedoms have been revoked, if you don't get off the internet now, you will be fined.
Now bend over, pussy.
I really don't see how it's morally justifiable issuing a fine to someone when it's only themselves they're going to hurt.
A drunk driver/speeder etc has a great deal of potential to injure someone else, hence a penalty makes sense. Someone deciding to stay out surfing after a shark alarm is only turning themselves into more of a target.
As for others ignoring warnings etc because so and so didn't go in, how many people do you know that would honestly stay in the water after hearing word of a shark?
It's ridiculous, because by issuing fines for this sort of issue they're also broadcasting that they're responsible for safety of beach users, and increasing the chance of litigation against themselves if someone gets taken by a shark they miss.
If they leave it at a stern talking to about not following directions that are in the interests of someones safety, then they remain as an organisation that does their best to keep people safe at the beach.
If they run around handing out fines for not "following orders" then suddenly they've become much more than that.
Same reason it is ridiculous to fine push bike cyclists with a fine for no helmet.
Seriously it is just me or are many around that find this one the paramount of ridiculous fines. If it is my choice to ride like Knievel my pushbike and fall from me let me deal with the consequences.
Now I am paying 100AUD more per year for rego to cover the occasional no at fault accident victim, but more likely to cover more of the morons spinning their rubber without traction around, running away from the police when in pursuit etc.
SO the argument for some is that a surfer staying in the water after a shark alarm, and then being told to get out by local authorities is that "He is not hurting anyone else other than himself"..."Surely its his choice"
So a question to those that say this is fine.. If a shark swims up and bites his leg off, who will have to swim out, paddle out and risk their own loves to retrieve him What about the family and others on the beach that witness the attack, that stuff will upset people more than some could imagine . What about the cost of the ambulance and emergency surgery and then the on going to cost to the state to help re-habilite and eventually possibly a pension to look after the person for his life time Who will bear those costs.. I think when you add them up, you'll soon see he is hurting/risking more than his own life.
(For the record i have no problem with paying these out of my taxes, but i find it rude when people say I'm not hurting anyone else, and turn their noses up to a warning..)
All the comparisons to stupid laws, well thats a different argument. Don't like the law, than move somewhere else, or do something about trying to change them. So many people sit and whine that they don't like something and do nothing to try and change that situation..
Thanks Mitchupc for raising this topic, at least now people have a good idea that next time a shark warning is sounded, they should get the hell out of the water, and if they don't, expect a $250 fine possibly..
Select to expand quotenovetti said..
Same reason it is ridiculous to fine push bike cyclists with a fine for no helmet.
Seriously it is just me or are many around that find this one the paramount of ridiculous fines. If it is my choice to ride like Knievel my pushbike and fall from me let me deal with the consequences.
Now I am paying 100AUD more per year for rego to cover the occasional no at fault accident victim, but more likely to cover more of the morons spinning their rubber without traction around, running away from the police when in pursuit etc.
Some people say push bike helmet laws are silly/stupid even. Maybe talk to a Trauma nurse and ask them about head injuries, especially dealing with children. Just because you feel a particular law is stupid doesn't mean you should be able to ignore it..
I don't like the helmet law either, but i have to wear one, or if not deal with the fine.
For some people a law seems stupid, but to others it seems sensible. For instance I know Muslim people who say its stupid for a women to have to remove her burqa for a police officer, or inside a bank. I also know others who say it should be against the law to wear a burqa in public, so who is right and who is wrong..
Select to expand quotejbshack said...
SO the argument for some is that a surfer staying in the water after a shark alarm, and then being told to get out by local authorities is that "He is not hurting anyone else other than himself"..."Surely its his choice"
So a question to those that say this is fine.. If a shark swims up and bites his leg off, who will have to swim out, paddle out and risk their own loves to retrieve him What about the family and others on the beach that witness the attack, that stuff will upset people more than some could imagine . What about the cost of the ambulance and emergency surgery and then the on going to cost to the state to help re-habilite and eventually possibly a pension to look after the person for his life time Who will bear those costs.. I think when you add them up, you'll soon see he is hurting/risking more than his own life.
(For the record i have no problem with paying these out of my taxes, but i find it rude when people say I'm not hurting anyone else, and turn their noses up to a warning..)
All the comparisons to stupid laws, well thats a different argument. Don't like the law, than move somewhere else, or do something about trying to change them. So many people sit and whine that they don't like something and do nothing to try and change that situation..
Thanks Mitchupc for raising this topic, at least now people have a good idea that next time a shark warning is sounded, they should get the hell out of the water, and if they don't, expect a $250 fine possibly..
Spoken like a true obedient citizen.
It'll be interesting to see where you draw the line in how far they erode your personal freedoms.
Wait, what am I thinking? You happily give up your rights at the drop of a hat.
Seeking approval from 'authorities' isn't the way to go, cause you didn't get it from your daddy.
Many studies show that people of low intellect are much more likely to unquestionably give up their rights, just cause they were told to by 'authority' figures.
Select to expand quotejbshack said...novetti said..
Same reason it is ridiculous to fine push bike cyclists with a fine for no helmet.
Seriously it is just me or are many around that find this one the paramount of ridiculous fines. If it is my choice to ride like Knievel my pushbike and fall from me let me deal with the consequences.
Now I am paying 100AUD more per year for rego to cover the occasional no at fault accident victim, but more likely to cover more of the morons spinning their rubber without traction around, running away from the police when in pursuit etc.
Some people say push bike helmet laws are silly/stupid even. Maybe talk to a Trauma nurse and ask them about head injuries, especially dealing with children. Just because you feel a particular law is stupid doesn't mean you should be able to ignore it..
I don't like the helmet law either, but i have to wear one, or if not deal with the fine.
For some people a law seems stupid, but to others it seems sensible. For instance I know Muslim people who say its stupid for a women to have to remove her burqa for a police officer, or inside a bank. I also know others who say it should be against the law to wear a burqa in public, so who is right and who is wrong..
Please, keep going, we're enjoying your self-delusional justifications.
I love seeing kids pretending to be adults.
