Select to expand quoteMdG71 said..
Second session with the carbon boom 
That is dreadful to see for the price they charge. I have a carbon boom coming tomorrow but thinking might just go with the standard boom now.
Are there any issues reported like this with the standard booms? If more durable for a third of the price might do that and sacrifice a bit of weight.
Select to expand quoteMdG71 said..
Second session with the carbon boom
That sucks, I hope they can do the right thing by you and replace it. I'm going to make my own. I don't even have the wing yet though.
Select to expand quoteMacca1410 said..MdG71 said..
Second session with the carbon boom
That is dreadful to see for the price they charge. I have a carbon boom coming tomorrow but thinking might just go with the standard boom now.
Are there any issues reported like this with the standard booms? If more durable for a third of the price might do that and sacrifice a bit of weight.
I also have the Silver Boom and it certainly feels sturdier.
For the price of the Platinum Carbon boom, I had indeed expected more quality. I am curious if Duotone will solve this problem. I might have been better off buying 2x Silver booms and then making a Carbon boom myself.
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..heysup said..MdG71 said..
Is the 7 not too big? Is it still efficient to pump with this size? I have a Takoon 7 and although it goes early I don't find pumping as efficient and I still need a gust to get on foil. You have to hold a 7 at an angle to avoid hitting the water and a smaller size can be held more upright so you can pump more quickly.
Today I rigged up the Slick 5.5 and it feels really great especially pumping feels so much more efficient. I doubt if it's really necessary to have a 7. Despite the doubts I don't want to miss a moment of Winging so I am looking at a bigger size Slick to replace the Takoon 7, but what would be better, a 6.5 or just a 7? And what about the smaller sizes so i'm now looking at a combi of 4, 5.5 and 7.
But would a combi of 4 and 6 be just fine. Pffff dilema's.
I took some pictures of the Slick 5.5 together with Airush v1 6m and the Takoon 7.
So the Slick 5.5 has more wingspan than the Airush v1 6m? I'm thinking about next wing, I'd love to try a boomed one, but I'm not tall and I don't want more wingspan... the Airush-sb is very compact!!!!
I am 5ft 7.5in and 75kg ride 95l Fanatic and demoed the 7m Slick.
On my knees it cleared the water easily, standing grovelling also no issues up on the foil very nice. But in no wind heavy to hold up compared with my no boom windwings.
Pumping also requires a different technique to my other windwings.
I bought a 6.5 Slick.
Do you mind sharing the wingspan of your 6.5 Slick? I have one on order, and I'm about your height, and want to be sure it will be manageable. Thanks
Select to expand quoteMacca1410 said..MdG71 said..
Second session with the carbon boom
That is dreadful to see for the price they charge. I have a carbon boom coming tomorrow but thinking might just go with the standard boom now.
Are there any issues reported like this with the standard booms? If more durable for a third of the price might do that and sacrifice a bit of weight.
I've been thinking a wee bit about the mechanism of failure on the Slick Carbon Boom, it appears to be glued as well as riveted, if so that glue has separated out. However (postulating) I think the biggest issue is the rivet in the carbon hole of what is frankly, a very thin walled boom. If the pop-rivet only mushrooms a little bit inside the tube, not enough to spread the load, I think it is a prime candidate for pull-through or loosening. Once that happens movement can occur more easily and the glue is under greater stress.
Carbon is strong and stiff but in my view the epoxy is quite brittle, especially aropund the hole if it is drilled into it. When I drilled holes in the carbon tubes for my home-made echo booms (see the Videos posted elsewhere how they are made, pic of my Echo boom end below) I started to be really concerned about the rivets pulling out through the carbon; this despite me gluing an aluminium sleeve over the top at the end only (see below from DW Videos on it). I ended up putting a through-bolt, slightly heavier but felt more secure ia it went from Plastic-Alu Sleeve-Carbon Tube-Carbon Tube-Alu Sleeve-Plastic i.e. spread the load.
What I think this Slick Carbon boom really needs is a short, well-fitting length of aluminium sleeve on the INSIDE of the boom, so that when you crank up the pop-rivet and it "mushrooms" it has something solid to mushroom AGAINST that is less likely to pull through. At a pinch a washer or curved plate with a hole in it might work, but a sleeve would be better. For the Slick Boom this would then be Plastic-Carbon Tube-Alu Sleeve-Alu Sleeve-Carbon Tube-Plastic.
Anyway, just random thoughts on this. It bugs me when fundamental issues are not considered as well as they should be.
DW's Videos for Carbon Echo Boom for Ideas:Select to expand quote
cheers
k.
Select to expand quotejksmurf said..Macca1410 said..MdG71 said..
Second session with the carbon boom
That is dreadful to see for the price they charge. I have a carbon boom coming tomorrow but thinking might just go with the standard boom now.
Are there any issues reported like this with the standard booms? If more durable for a third of the price might do that and sacrifice a bit of weight.
I've been thinking a wee bit about the mechanism of failure on the Slick Carbon Boom, it appears to be glued as well as riveted, if so that glue has separated out. However (postulating) I think the biggest issue is the rivet in the carbon hole of what is frankly, a very thin walled boom. If the pop-rivet only mushrooms a little bit inside the tube, not enough to spread the load, I think it is a prime candidate for pull-through or loosening. Once that happens movement can occur more easily and the glue is under greater stress.
Carbon is strong and stiff but in my view the epoxy is quite brittle, especially aropund the hole if it is drilled into it. When I drilled holes in the carbon tubes for my home-made echo booms (see the Videos posted elsewhere how they are made, pic of my Echo boom end below) I started to be really concerned about the rivets pulling out through the carbon; this despite me gluing an aluminium sleeve over the top at the end only (see below from DW Videos on it). I ended up putting a through-bolt, slighly heavier but felt more secure is it went from Plastic?Alu Sleeve?Carbon Tube?Carbon Tube?Alu Sleeve?Plastic i.e. spread the load.
What I think this Slick Carbon boom really needs is a short, well-fitting length of aluminium sleeve on the INSIDE of the boom, so that when you crank up the pop-rivet and it "mushrooms" it has something solid to mushroom AGAINST that is less likely to pull through. At a pinch a washer or curved plate with a hole in it might work, but a sleeve would be better. For the Slick Boom this would then be Plastic?Carbon Tube?Alu Sleeve?Alu Sleeve?Carbon Tube?Plastic. Anyway, just random thoughts on this. It bugs me when fundamental issues are not considered as well as they should be.
DW's Videos for Carbon Echo Boom for Ideas:
cheers
k.
Using aluminium and carbon together is just a recipe for galvanic corrosion and failure
I believe as you say, the issue is the flex/movement of the plastic paddle cap.
There is a lot of flex as it is a load bearing point.
A rivet is a poor fastener in this situation. And one into carbon never works.
The easiest fix would be to drill it out, and replace it with a small bolt with a nyloc thread.
A Barrel nut/ barrel bolt with a bit of lock thread, would be even better.
I am actually considering this on my aluminum boom, as I can plug the ends while I do it.
Select to expand quotePacey said..
Using aluminium and carbon together is just a recipe for galvanic corrosion and failure
Gee Pacey, you're not wrong, but at least make a suggestion rather than shooting down my feeble thoughts on a suggested fix (which TBH, will still work better than the current design and have a decent design life in the timescales of use we're talking about ... ). Gluing the Alu Sleeve inside the Carbon one will provide a corrosion buffer of sorts anyway.
k.
An Adhesive like E6000 or Goop + 48 hours of cure time and it's never coming apart. The stupid pop rivet would be just to hold things in place while the Goop cures.
Trying to bond a rigid carbon tube to a flexible plastic part is going to be bloody difficult. The adhesive would require to be slightly flexible to maintain the bond, and it's really hard to get a good bond to a plastic part.
ideally the end piece would be carbon too, bit like a carbon sup paddle handle, this would provide the perfect bond surfaces and no need for a rivet.
Select to expand quotejksmurf said..Pacey said..
Using aluminium and carbon together is just a recipe for galvanic corrosion and failure
Gee Pacey, you're not wrong, but at least make a suggestion rather than shooting down my feeble thoughts on a suggested fix (which TBH, will still work better than the current design and have a decent design life in the timescales of use we're talking about ... ). Gluing the Alu Sleeve inside the Carbon one will provide a corrosion buffer of sorts anyway.
k.
OK, my guess would be forget the rivet and the aluminium sleeve. Then glue it in place with Gorilla Glue, that stuff is amazingly strong and expands to fill gaps. If you can get a carbon sleeve the right diameter to go inside that would make it even stronger.
@Fishdudue, Thanks wishful thinking I'd find the same carbon oval
@Jksmurf, both surfaces cleaned well, carbon roughened/sanded, plastic can even be flame treated for a second. Then a toughened epoxy like g-flex for bonding dissimilar parts.
Select to expand quotePacey said..jksmurf said..Pacey said..
Using aluminium and carbon together is just a recipe for galvanic corrosion and failure
Gee Pacey, you're not wrong, but at least make a suggestion rather than shooting down my feeble thoughts on a suggested fix (which TBH, will still work better than the current design and have a decent design life in the timescales of use we're talking about ... ). Gluing the Alu Sleeve inside the Carbon one will provide a corrosion buffer of sorts anyway.
k.
OK, my guess would be forget the rivet and the aluminium sleeve. Then glue it in place with Gorilla Glue, that stuff is amazingly strong and expands to fill gaps. If you can get a carbon sleeve the right diameter to go inside that would make it even stronger.
Cheers Pacey, a carbon inner tube :-). I like it. Only really needs to be as long as the diameter of the Boom really. I'm still a fan of the rivet or a light through bolt as a backup though (aren't rivets Aluminium?), I'd hate for the thing to separate, Gorilla Snot or not.
Select to expand quotejksmurf said.. Cheers Pacey, a carbon inner tube :-). I like it. Only really needs to be as long as the diameter of the Boom really. I'm still a fan of the rivet or a light through bolt as a backup though (aren't rivets Aluminium?), I'd hate for the thing to separate, Gorilla Snot or not.
Hardware store rivets are typically aluminium, but you can also get them in stainless. You can also get monel, which is what we used to use when rigging dinghy masts in the olden days. You can get monel rivets from marine shops like Whitworths.
I found the following list online and it shows the various materials in order, and monel is closest to carbon, slightly better than stainless and much better than aluminium:
Cathodic: Graphite
Monel
Stainless Steel
Bronze
Brass
Copper
Tin
Mild Steel
Aluminum
Zinc
Anodic: Magnesium
Select to expand quoteMdG71 said..Macca1410 said..MdG71 said..
Second session with the carbon boom
That is dreadful to see for the price they charge. I have a carbon boom coming tomorrow but thinking might just go with the standard boom now.
Are there any issues reported like this with the standard booms? If more durable for a third of the price might do that and sacrifice a bit of weight.
I also have the Silver Boom and it certainly feels sturdier.
For the price of the Platinum Carbon boom, I had indeed expected more quality. I am curious if Duotone will solve this problem. I might have been better off buying 2x Silver booms and then making a Carbon boom myself.
Great service from dealer and importer, it is replaced free of charge
Select to expand quoteMdG71 said..
Is the 7 not too big? Is it still efficient to pump with this size? I have a Takoon 7 and although it goes early I don't find pumping as efficient and I still need a gust to get on foil. You have to hold a 7 at an angle to avoid hitting the water and a smaller size can be held more upright so you can pump more quickly.
Today I rigged up the Slick 5.5 and it feels really great especially pumping feels so much more efficient. I doubt if it's really necessary to have a 7. Despite the doubts I don't want to miss a moment of Winging so I am looking at a bigger size Slick to replace the Takoon 7, but what would be better, a 6.5 or just a 7? And what about the smaller sizes so i'm now looking at a combi of 4, 5.5 and 7.
But would a combi of 4 and 6 be just fine. Pffff dilema's.
I took some pictures of the Slick 5.5 together with Airush v1 6m and the Takoon 7.
When I overlaid my Slick 7m with the Takoon 7m. It looks like the Slick is very close to exactly 1 meter bigger. Same width, about 20 cm hanging off the trail edge and 2 areas of extra material in corners of the LE. I guess a different brand may call this size 7m a 8m and vs versa.
Anyone else run into this issue?
So I've been having a great time with my 5m and 4m Slick's (haven't even gotten to use my 6m Slick yet), but it seems I've run into a serious issue with the 4m. The length between the front and rear boom pockets on my 4m wing is ~ 1.5 inches (3.8 cm) greater than either my 5m or 6m. So when the boom is velcroed into the front pocket of my 5m and 6m wing it's also fully inserted into the rear slip pocket, but on the 4m wing it barely overlaps the rear pocket. I'm guessing a manufacturing mistake in getting the boom pockets in the correct location on this particular wing.
I actually got away with it for the first two lighter wind sessions with the 4m, but by the third session I guess there was enough "new wing setting stretch" that it just starting popping out of the pocket while I was riding (flat water and close to shore so I wasn't risking too much). I've had no issue at all with the 5m after several sessions on it, and it looks like the 6m will be fine as well. That's a non starter on the 4m and even unsafe. Anyway, I know I could do a shop fix for the 4m, but I took a bunch of pictures and sent them to the dealer to see if Duotone will address the issue. Otherwise I'm gonna have to make a custom "slightly longer" boom just for the 4m. I've been a faithful retail customer for 2 original Duotone's, 4 Echo's, and now 3 Slicks, and this is the first wing I've had any issue with. Other than this the wings have been awesome
Your 4m is OK. Before you inflate the wing, push the boom all the way into the back sleeve. It is designed to have a bit more camber in the strut and the air pressure holds the boom firmly in place.
Select to expand quoteBZRider said..
Your 4m is OK. Before you inflate the wing, push the boom all the way into the back sleeve. It is designed to have a bit more camber in the strut and the air pressure holds the boom firmly in place.
Yup, that's the way to do it. You might have to partially inflate to get it to hold
Select to expand quoteRelapse said..BZRider said..
Your 4m is OK. Before you inflate the wing, push the boom all the way into the back sleeve. It is designed to have a bit more camber in the strut and the air pressure holds the boom firmly in place.
Yup, that's the way to do it. You might have to partially inflate to get it to hold
Is this the response from Duotone, or just a personal opinion?
What other sizes does this pre inflation, extra careful boom placement, apply too?
It would seem that solution may work for some light weight highly skilled person , but I wonder about heavier newb types who could find themseves at times pulling vary hard on the boom, or a maybe even a jumping person maybe not so much of a solution.
Descape seems to be more of a very skilled, non jumping, medium weight, and you can see at 3mins where that did not work out so well. Do you think he did not have the boom in the pocket deep enough before inflating?
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
go to 3 minute mark
Mate great Video , thanks for the share. 
Select to expand quoteFishdude said..
Is this the response from Duotone, or just a personal opinion?
What other sizes does this pre inflation, extra careful boom placement, apply too?
It would seem that solution may work for some light weight highly skilled person , but I wonder about heavier newb types who could find themseves at times pulling vary hard on the boom, or a maybe even a jumping person maybe not so much of a solution.
Descape seems to be more of a very skilled, non jumping, medium weight, and you can see at 3mins where that did not work out so well. Do you think he did not have the boom in the pocket deep enough before inflating?
I agree, the fit of the 4m to the standard boom as shown in that photo is clearly not safe and it will pull out under load. Speaking as someone who has sailed with a home made slick boom that was slightly too short, mine did pull out under load, and given that I was sailing in 25-30 knots of wind, it could have been a disaster.
I would speak to Duotone about that wing, it isn't right as it is
so, are all 4m Slicks like this, ie. does anyone have a 4m with proper attachments?
Select to expand quoteBZRider said..
Your 4m is OK. Before you inflate the wing, push the boom all the way into the back sleeve. It is designed to have a bit more camber in the strut and the air pressure holds the boom firmly in place.
Thanks for the tip BZRider. I gave it a try and it seems to have worked like you said,.....at least for a quick dry test (attached pic). Now I'll have to see if holds that position after a couple hours of riding and crashing
Seems very strange that Duotone would match the boom pocket positions with the "natural" inflated camber of the strut on the 5m and 6m so that the boom is automatically a nice tight (matched) fit in both pockets,...... but then relies the friction of the boom against the strut in the rear pocket to hold a strut at an increased camber than it would otherwise be when inflated without the boom in place just on the 4m. Now your totally dependent on the user to ensure the boom is in the right position before inflating, ........and dependent on that friction to keep the boom in place and maintain the strut camber while the wing is getting thrashed about on the water. What if you had a slow leak and wing was still rideable but going a bit soft? Would you lose the friction hold resulting in the boom popping out again? Doesn't sound like a very consistent design to my feeble brain...
Oh well, I'm happy to give it a try on the water and report back on the results!
I have been using the 4m Slick for about a 3 weeks now and is my go to size in 15-30 knots.
One of the differences between the slick and previous models, in the smaller sizes it requires a higher PSI. If you pump it up to the increased PSI you should have no problems with the boom sliding out in the smaller sizes.
