the echo WAS a great ?? entry into winging for a windsurfer.
but yeah it still sinks (even with the noodle hack).
"uncle" Alan is the man. Now...how do you get one before Xmas 2021
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Not sure he's as non biased as he makes out. He lives next door to ken winner !!
Alan Cadiz isn't saying he's not biased (of course he's somewhat biased). He gives disclosure prior to talking about the wing (not everyone does this) -- he's not paid by Duotone but is "lent" prototypes to use and evaluate. His feedback goes into the design so there will be bias since some of the features he wants are incorporated into the wing. One big bias he has comes from his windsurfing background -- he's partial to a "boomed" wing.
I have three wings -- two Wasps and an Echo. With a long windsurfing background I like the Echo's boom and I've now retrofitted the two Wasps with booms.
When evaluating a wing for myself the first thing I look for are mini booms or a boom -- that's my starting point. The Slick looks like the best of both worlds and I suspect a nice improvement over an all ready nice wing (the Echo).
The Echo is probably the most tuneable wing on the market -- the ability to increase or decrease the draft with the adjustable boom gives the wing a huge wind range.
I think its more a matter of personal preferences.
I,m windsurfing over 30y and just sold my Echo 6m today because I really do NOT like the boom and gonna replace it with a model with loops (not sure if that will be Starboard/Naish or another Smik).
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Not sure he's as non biased as he makes out. He lives next door to ken winner !!
Take a look at the 6:42 mark of the Alan Cadiz video. I might be wrong but it sure looks like Ken Winner doing those tacks!
Here's a summary about the windows in the Slick (and windows in general).
Dude why does he need to say he's not paid by duotone ? When we know his opinion through the development with this wing is totally biased and preferential. Hence the statement was somewhat inauthentic
You reckon he paid for the wings lol?
that doesn't mean the wing won't be sick though. I just though that statement was weird and not needed when we all know he's a duotone man through and through.
but he contributes a hell of a lot to the sport and I'm a big fan of his.
I think Alan Cadiz was quite authentic -- his comparison of the Slick was to the Echo and the Unit, both of which are Duotone products (the best features of both of those wings). He demonstrated how the wing could be released if the tip caught the water (so he backed up what he was claiming). In the right hands and with the right foil the wing is fast -- 28 m.p.h. is pretty fast for a wing! He clearly wasn't comparing the Slick to any other manufacturers' products. He also demonstrated that the Slick could be tacked without any downward pressure when it's moved overhead, which is a problem for some wings. Also, he claimed that the wing was better behaved than the Echo (again, another Duotone product) when held to the side on a wave and showed some video of the Slick being used that way.
If he hadn't said that he didn't work for Duotone the assumption would be that he did work for Duotone and that this was just another product review by a manufacturer -- he rightly stated that he had access to Duotone's prototype wings, which he obviously likes because if he didn't, he could have just kept quite and not said anything at all -- he clearly stated that his bias was towards a "boomed" wing and there sure aren't many of those outside of the Duotone lineup (that would be one good reason as to why he's a Duotone man) -- there will be some others introduced this year. In fact, if he didn't like these wings he would be using something else because any of the other manufacturers would be happy to "lend" him their wings (nice cheap and effective product promotion having your wing being used at Alan Cadiz's windsurf/kite/wing school and appearing in all of his Youtube videos).
I suspect he made the video as a means to get a product evaluation out to those interested in a "boomed" wing. Alan Cadiz's video was much more comprehensive than any product promotion Duotone has released to date -- no twenty something good looking guys and girls flying back and forth with a few jumps here and there but instead a fifty-nine year old guy stating what he likes about the product -- and backing it with real world video evidence -- it's not sexy but I for one appreciate the effort he made to get this review out there.
Select to expand quotedejavu said..
I think Alan Cadiz was quite authentic -- his comparison of the Slick was to the Echo and the Unit, both of which are Duotone products (the best features of both of those wings). He demonstrated how the wing could be released if the tip caught the water (so he backed up what he was claiming). In the right hands and with the right foil the wing is fast -- 28 m.p.h. is pretty fast for a wing! He clearly wasn't comparing the Slick to any other manufacturers' products. He also demonstrated that the Slick could be tacked without any downward pressure when it's moved overhead, which is a problem for some wings. Also, he claimed that the wing was better behaved than the Echo (again, another Duotone product) when held to the side on a wave and showed some video of the Slick being used that way.
If he hadn't said that he didn't work for Duotone the assumption would be that he did work for Duotone and that this was just another product review by a manufacturer -- he rightly stated that he had access to Duotone's prototype wings, which he obviously likes because if he didn't, he could have just kept quite and not said anything at all -- he clearly stated that his bias was towards a "boomed" wing and there sure aren't many of those outside of the Duotone lineup (that would be one good reason as to why he's a Duotone man) -- there will be some others introduced this year. In fact, if he didn't like these wings he would be using something else because any of the other manufacturers would be happy to "lend" him their wings (nice cheap and effective product promotion having your wing being used at Alan Cadiz's windsurf/kite/wing school and appearing in all of his Youtube videos).
I suspect he made the video as a means to get a product evaluation out to those interested in a "boomed" wing. Alan Cadiz's video was much more comprehensive than any product promotion Duotone has released to date -- no twenty something good looking guys and girls flying back and forth with a few jumps here and there but instead a fifty-nine year old guy stating what he likes about the product -- and backing it with real world video evidence -- it's not sexy but I for one appreciate the effort he made to get this review out there.
Well said d?javu
the guy has credibility. who cares if he's not a social media expert.
I care about what he demonstrates on the water, and he is a smooth operator.
im buying the slick because it ticks the few boxes he mentions, that I can relate to.
Oh for sure. As I said he contributes a hell of a lot. As for your argument concerning his complete authenticity...
I think you've been drinking the same coolaid dude...
But all good. I do Like the concept of the combined boom and strut for sure. I've ridden exclusively north then duotone kites For years now, so I'm a big fan of their ability to design and develop top Notch gear.
I picked up my 7m Slick and took it out in 10 knots.
I got up and going in less wind than the 7m Echo. It is pumping beast.
Wing tip drags still occur but in stead of the wing flipping over it simply bounces off.
A very good piece of equipment.
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..
I picked up my 7m Slick and took it out in 10 knots.
I got up and going in less wind than the 7m Echo. It is pumping beast.
Wing tip drags still occur but in stead of the wing flipping over it simply bounces off.
A very good piece of equipment.
You're fortunate to have access to these wings so early. Where I am we'll be lucky to have any by the end of April.
Have you tried the Echo with less outhaul for more power? Being able to adjust the draft is something I really like about the Echo. If the Slick is more powerful and a better pumper -- then Duotone has upped the ante.
Select to expand quotedejavu said..bigtone667 said..
I picked up my 7m Slick and took it out in 10 knots.
I got up and going in less wind than the 7m Echo. It is pumping beast.
Wing tip drags still occur but in stead of the wing flipping over it simply bounces off.
A very good piece of equipment.
You're fortunate to have access to these wings so early. Where I am we'll be lucky to have any by the end of April.
Have you tried the Echo with less outhaul for more power? Being able to adjust the draft is something I really like about the Echo. If the Slick is more powerful and a better pumper -- then Duotone has upped the ante.
In the early days I used to adjust the boom, but once I started storing the Echo in a long tube I did not bother disconnecting boom or adjusting it.
The 7m Echo has been great and 7m Slick is definitely an improvement.
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..
I picked up my 7m Slick and took it out in 10 knots.
I got up and going in less wind than the 7m Echo. It is pumping beast.
Wing tip drags still occur but in stead of the wing flipping over it simply bounces off.
A very good piece of equipment.
Any chance of sending a 6m slick to the Philippines?
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..
I picked up my 7m Slick and took it out in 10 knots.
I got up and going in less wind than the 7m Echo. It is pumping beast.
Wing tip drags still occur but in stead of the wing flipping over it simply bounces off.
A very good piece of equipment.
Where did you get your boom from? I've got a 7m slick also, but no boom yet
praying it arrives before Easter ??
Select to expand quoteFoilove said..bigtone667 said..
I picked up my 7m Slick and took it out in 10 knots.
I got up and going in less wind than the 7m Echo. It is pumping beast.
Wing tip drags still occur but in stead of the wing flipping over it simply bounces off.
A very good piece of equipment.
Where did you get your boom from? I've got a 7m slick also, but no boom yet
praying it arrives before Easter ??
SUP Paddle.... handle fits top connection nicely and tape the end to remove any sharp edges.
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..Foilove said..bigtone667 said..
I picked up my 7m Slick and took it out in 10 knots.
I got up and going in less wind than the 7m Echo. It is pumping beast.
Wing tip drags still occur but in stead of the wing flipping over it simply bounces off.
A very good piece of equipment.
Where did you get your boom from? I've got a 7m slick also, but no boom yet
praying it arrives before Easter ??
SUP Paddle.... handle fits top connection nicely and tape the end to remove any sharp edges.
Excellent - I tried that, but the extendable kids one was 3cm short. If the boom doesn't arrive, I'm going to buy a cheaper one and cut it up.
when I put the handle in the pocket, the larger size squashed the bladder, same for you? Thought about going the handle flat.
also is yours exactly 125 cm length to length?
Select to expand quoteFoilove said..bigtone667 said..Foilove said..bigtone667 said..
I picked up my 7m Slick and took it out in 10 knots.
I got up and going in less wind than the 7m Echo. It is pumping beast.
Wing tip drags still occur but in stead of the wing flipping over it simply bounces off.
A very good piece of equipment.
Where did you get your boom from? I've got a 7m slick also, but no boom yet
praying it arrives before Easter ??
SUP Paddle.... handle fits top connection nicely and tape the end to remove any sharp edges.
Excellent - I tried that, but the extendable kids one was 3cm short. If the boom doesn't arrive, I'm going to buy a cheaper one and cut it up.
when I put the handle in the pocket, the larger size squashed the bladder, same for you? Thought about going the handle flat.
also is yours exactly 125 cm length to length?
The handle was a good fit and overall length was snug. I have not measured it.
Picked up my 4.5 Slick today but boom still a week or two away so used a carbon SUP paddle to get by. I'm coming from a 5.0 Unit and have used Echos before.
5.0 unit 2.2 kg
4.5 Slick 2.06 kg without boom (2.3 kg with carbon SUP paddle)
quite a bit narrower than the 5.0 Unit
Slick front handle wider
Guessing the stock boom will have a T shaped head to prevent it rotating. SUP handle fit pretty snug.
You have to squeeze the boom in before the wing is inflated.
Had a really fun 2 hours this arvo on it in 8-9 knot average 12-13 gusts. I'm 70kg on Axis 910/420 and 80L Quatro. Had to pump pretty hard to get on foil but was pretty comfortable once up. Was definitely easier to pump with the reduced width and felt like I got up just as easy as the 5.0 Unit. Stability is the first thing that hit me, it's really light in the hand. Even though it's 100g heavier than the 5.0 Unit it actually felt quite a bit lighter. Really easy to wing one handed.
Really stable depowered to, tried the front handle on a couple of little ripples and I'd say it's at least as good as the Unit. The wider front handle is a bit flatter too so your hand fits snugly, seems to help with stability.
It's a dream in heel side tacks, completely neutral through the eye of the wind, doesn't flap around at all.
Points crazy good, at least as high as the 5.0m Unit probably higher. Speed is great too.
bigtone669 is spot on about the tip hitting the water, just seems to bounce back rather than getting ripped back and flipping the wing. Great design.
Window placement and size is awesome, great city views all arvo. Never noticed them on the Unit.
Boom is way easier for transitions but never clicked with the Echo. Slick is the best of both Echo and Unit.
Spewing my 3.0m Slick won't be here till September ??????
I just made my boom, although I sacrificed a paddle handle completely, grinded it flat, then used epoxy putty to make it a similar shape to the real thing.
I found at the correct boom length 125cm, placing the boom in the wing when pumping left a small gap at one end. See pics.
I consulted with the guys in Hawaii, and they said Ken Winner's advice is to squeeze the wing together when inflating.
Select to expand quoteFoilove said..
I just made my boom, although I sacrificed a paddle handle completely, grinded it flat, then used epoxy putty to make it a similar shape to the real thing.
I found at the correct boom length 125cm, placing the boom in the wing when pumping left a small gap at one end. See pics.
I consulted with the guys in Hawaii, and they said Ken Winner's advice is to squeeze the wing together when inflating.
How would squeezing be a permanent solution, ie. looks like the pole would just slide back / in the sleeve when pumping etc.?
So should the boom be longer than 125cm? I picked up two Slicks today, but no booms for at least a week, so it looks like a SUP paddle is getting sacrificed
Select to expand quotestroppo said..
Maybe pump the wing up then measure Andrew
Thanks Stroppo, I never would have thought of that.
I cut mine to fit snugly, it's closer to 130cm but maybe its supposed to have the gap? If the boom can slide then it should change the camber a bit, maybe a bit more grunt when you pump and flattens out depowered. Will find out when the official boom gets here.
Select to expand quoteRelapse said..
I cut mine to fit snugly, it's closer to 130cm but maybe its supposed to have the gap? If the boom can slide then it should change the camber a bit, maybe a bit more grunt when you pump and flattens out depowered. Will find out when the official boom gets here.
I confirmed with Guys who have them in Hawaii. Should only be 125cm. Then squeeze the wing together as you inflate so it touches each end. At 130 will be a bit long and won't produce the intended shape. same if measured once inflated. The length will be too long.
Will work, but not optimally.
Select to expand quoteomg said..Foilove said..
I just made my boom, although I sacrificed a paddle handle completely, grinded it flat, then used epoxy putty to make it a similar shape to the real thing.
I found at the correct boom length 125cm, placing the boom in the wing when pumping left a small gap at one end. See pics.
I consulted with the guys in Hawaii, and they said Ken Winner's advice is to squeeze the wing together when inflating.
How would squeezing be a permanent solution, ie. looks like the pole would just slide back / in the sleeve when pumping etc.?
Once inflated the strut holds it all in place, won't move. That's why I've been told to squeeze together whilst inflating so no gap. Because once inflated, no chance.
Select to expand quoteFoilove said..Relapse said..
I cut mine to fit snugly, it's closer to 130cm but maybe its supposed to have the gap? If the boom can slide then it should change the camber a bit, maybe a bit more grunt when you pump and flattens out depowered. Will find out when the official boom gets here.
I confirmed with Guys who have them in Hawaii. Should only be 125cm. Then squeeze the wing together as you inflate so it touches each end. At 130 will be a bit long and won't produce the intended shape. same if measured once inflated. The length will be too long.
Will work, but not optimally.
Good to know, was pretty bloody good at 130, will be even happier if it's better at 125 ??????
Select to expand quoteRelapse said..Foilove said..Relapse said..
I cut mine to fit snugly, it's closer to 130cm but maybe its supposed to have the gap? If the boom can slide then it should change the camber a bit, maybe a bit more grunt when you pump and flattens out depowered. Will find out when the official boom gets here.
I confirmed with Guys who have them in Hawaii. Should only be 125cm. Then squeeze the wing together as you inflate so it touches each end. At 130 will be a bit long and won't produce the intended shape. same if measured once inflated. The length will be too long.
Will work, but not optimally.
Good to know, was pretty bloody good at 130, will be even happier if it's better at 125 ??????
Nope, once stretched it is not gonna be the same again ??
