Foils vs fins at PWA

I dunno - I really enjoyed yesterday's racing. Puzzled that Goyard who was uncatchable all last year is suddenly mortal. I know he had a bout with depression this year which probably affected his training.

Lots of fins today so perhaps we'll see the foils challenged a bit - could be good for Goyard, Koerdel and others who like foiling in strong winds...

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thedoor said..

Maddlad said..

bel29 said..
Still begs the question whether this will increase the number of races and/or racers.
It seems to me that most organizers will still prefer to organize mixed events so as to maximize the chances of valid races, which means that racers will still travel with both fin and foil sets. I know, rankings will be separate, so you could choose to do only one discipline, but in reality who would travel to an event with only fin or foil gear, only to see everyone else compete on foil or fin because there isn't enough (or there is too much) wind. Seems to me that limiting the gear choice (max 1 foil board/1 front wing, and 2 slalom boards) is a more direct way to achieve the same result.

We had a mixed event last year over the new years period here called the Swan River Festival of Windsurfing. It was 4 days of racing where participants could choose what they wanted to use in the different race types (wind foil, LT, Wingfoil, Formula, Fin Slalom, Freeride etc). There was upwind/downwind course, traditional slalom races, and figure 8 slalom racing. Conditions ranged from 25 knots on the first days upwind/downwind course race to 10 - 15 and a bit above during the slalom racing. Everyone just chose their weapon and lived and died by the conditions, but it was a fantastic event that brought the extreme sail sports community closer together and hopefully will continue to happen each year.

Maybe this is the go for recreational events. No kites?

Which discipline took the title? wing or wind foil would be my guess

One of our local foil legends Darryl G won the event overall and he foiled in every race. The next few racers including myself used a mixture of foil and fin depending on the race type. I used foils for upwind downwind and fins for slalom for example.

Fin vs foil at 50 min day3 heat 4. Taty on fin well ahead of Rytis on foil. Neither looked comfortable.

Heat 6 at 1:00 shows advantage of foil if anyone stalls a gybe but the risk of a poor gybe sees the foil fall back again.
Personally I like the choice.

1:38. Semi final fins prove to be dangerous! Brutal wipeout.

Shame the wind dropped for elimination 4 final, it would have been good to see a full on wind final.
Its been a good event so far, the camera coverage excellent in 30 knots winds.
The wind was light on day 1 & 2, but there has been some good racing when fin only would have been sat on the beach.
Hopefully it wont rain tomorrow as that could spoil the coverage. The forecast is lighter N-NNE winds, so cross offshore and less chop, so foils quids in.
1 day left to decide the 2022 rankings. For the men maybe 2 eliminations, Ben didnt think they would get 3 done, so no more discards. So Iachino, Rutkowski and Marotti are the likely sailors. In the women's, Marian Mortefon clear leader, but still not decided. This is their only event this year.
Rutkowski leading on countback.

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Awalkspoiled said..
I dunno - I really enjoyed yesterday's racing. Puzzled that Goyard who was uncatchable all last year is suddenly mortal. I know he had a bout with depression this year which probably affected his training.

Lots of fins today so perhaps we'll see the foils challenged a bit - could be good for Goyard, Koerdel and others who like foiling in strong winds...

Maybe it is just me, I find it boring. But besides that, at this point mixing fins and foils make absolutely no sense. Equipment is just too different, it makes this pro-level racing look like a club event. Time to decide, fin or foil or two separate series.

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duzzi said..
Maybe it is just me, I find it boring. But besides that, at this point mixing fins and foils make absolutely no sense. Equipment is just too different, it makes this pro-level racing look like a club event. Time to decide, fin or foil or two separate series.

They decided earlier this year, the equipment rules for 2023 and 2024 were posted on page 3 of this thread.

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berowne said..

duzzi said..

Awalkspoiled said..
I dunno - I really enjoyed yesterday's racing. Puzzled that Goyard who was uncatchable all last year is suddenly mortal. I know he had a bout with depression this year which probably affected his training.

Lots of fins today so perhaps we'll see the foils challenged a bit - could be good for Goyard, Koerdel and others who like foiling in strong winds...

Maybe it is just me, I find it boring. But besides that, at this point mixing fins and foils make absolutely no sense. Equipment is just too different, it makes this pro-level racing look like a club event. Time to decide, fin or foil or two separate series.

It's just you!

nah, not really: it is just like the American's cup. Most races are finished at the starting line. They put you to sleep.

PhilUK, yes, the new rules are below. Fin and foils together. PWA is acting like a local club that does not have enough entries, and so resorts to run an open class. That, not enough entries, is probably the case, but is not serious. It as if 49ers and Nacra 17, just to take two olympic sailing classes, were racing against each other.
2022
6 Sails
4 Boards (only 1 over 85cm wide, up to 91cm for men and 100.5cm for women)
1 Foil Set (3 front, 2 rear wings)

2023
6 Sails
3 Boards (only 1 over 85cm wide, up to 91cm for men and 100.5cm for women)
1 Foil Set (3 front, 2 rear wings)

2024
4 Sails
2 Boards (any registered slalom boards, foil or fin, up to 91cm for men and 100.5cm for women)
1 Foil Set (3 front, 2 rear wings)"

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bel29 said..

duzzi said..

nah, not really: it is just like the American's cup. Most races are finished at the starting line. They put you to sleep.

lol this race wasn't even over on the *finish line* www.facebook.com/TatyNB9/videos/654111109675984/

you must be watching the wrong channel

Exactly my point. Fin slalom racing is exciting. Foil slalom racing is a terrible bore: most often first at the starting line is first at the end and that's it.

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duzzi said.Exactly my point. Fin slalom racing is exciting. Foil slalom racing is a terrible bore: most often first at the starting line is first at the end and that's it.

Most sports are more interesting to watch if you can do them (to some extent) yourself.
Makes sense you're biased towards fin

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duzzi said..

bel29 said..

duzzi said..

nah, not really: it is just like the American's cup. Most races are finished at the starting line. They put you to sleep.

lol this race wasn't even over on the *finish line* www.facebook.com/TatyNB9/videos/654111109675984/

you must be watching the wrong channel

Exactly my point. Fin slalom racing is exciting. Foil slalom racing is a terrible bore: most often first at the starting line is first at the end and that's it.

This week has been the counterexample, for me. Take yesterday's final. Goyard started seventh out of eight at the upwind end. He has such control of his jibes that he wove through the fleet while jibing and after the first mark he was in third. Then he beat Albeau back to full speed and was in second and led by the third mark. Terrible start - you could almost hear him thinking "I will NOT lose this by being over early" but he relied, rightly, on his skill. In slalom sailing on fin, people often win because someone else makes a mistake, not because their own skill is so transcendent.

I have no idea why anyone would sponsor that clown, what a disrespectful spat on the beach after he hit something in the water, blaming everyone else, abusing the race committee, wanting the racing stopped because he said it's too light, so he could win the series.

At the end of the day who get down the course first is the goal. Fin/ foil at this level is what gives us hacks better gear. Personally I like the hype around fin v foil.

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Did anyone figure out how the countback is scored to let Maciek win the tie?
It's not mentioned in the PWA rule book.

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SeanAUS120 said..

Did anyone figure out how the countback is scored to let Maciek win the tie?
It's not mentioned in the PWA rule book.

I haven't read the rules but Ben mentioned it briefly while Maciek was in the booth. It seems they count back best placements from the top. So as I understand it if the totals are identical and both have two firsts, they're still tied, but then one has a second and a fifth and the other a third and fourth the guy with the second (Maciek) is the winner. Maciek was worried that it was best discard, which would have given it to Iachino.

I'm afraid his meltdown is going to be remembered every time anyone remembers who won 2022. Big winner was Ben P, whose level of stoke, familiarity with the rules, technique, history and people involved made the whole broadcast really watchable.