JP / NP Board & Foil

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Camarillo said..
I windsurf for 30 years and have 25 years experience with footstraps but still I managed to damage 4 footstap holes, the screw won't hold in them anymore.
The footstrap screws are quite short and not very thick and the plastic of the inserts is very soft.

Yup, same here. After years getting used to the strong windsurfing strap metal inserts, getting back to the primitive SUP plastic inserts takes some time getting used to. I even managed to screw between 2 holes...

My advice:
- check your holes depths and screws. Some straps have cumbersome washers around their holes and the usable screw length is thus quite shortened. For instance I had to remove the thick plastic washers of my straps and use thin metal ones with teeths.
- just buy wider screws of the same length to use in the damaged holes
- screw with a very high downwards force, very gingerly and slowly.
- using an electric drill can be useful to limit the torque applied
- re-tighten often at first: the pad under the straps will compress with time, loosening the screws.
- check the screws before each session

Note that you only really need the front strap at first. So if you are not satisfied with the position of the back strap, just do not install it. You will install it later when your stance will be stabilized, and having both straps will then help for reaching higher speeds and banking harder turns.

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Camarillo said..
Isn't it asking for trouble supfoiling with only one foot in a strap?

That's what I thought at first, but it does not seem so in practice. Lots of people are doing it. I guess in Windsurfing or Kitesurfing you tend to stay in the straps longer before bailing out, plus the sail can pull on your body unexpectedly. In SUP foiling, I found out that you tend to bail early, and you never try to force your way into wipeouts with both feet in the straps, which is when having one foot getting loose can be quite dangerous.

For learning to SUPfoil, you should go into gentle mellow waves only. And there, having only one strap is no issue. Also the real danger is the rear foot, than can be stuck under your body weight if you fall backwards and the water flow is pushing you against the strap. The front foot always comes out very easily.

This said, I do not foil during the 2 months I have to wear boots, as I use very grippy ones (covered in latex). If I were to use boots for straps, I guess I would look for slippery ones (lycra covered?)

Camarillo agree maybe just try front strap.

Seajuice I'd say that would be it , the only time we've made the NP sing is behind the boat when we get up around 30 knots , haven't made sing in the surf.

Got out in shoulder high waves today. The waves are solid & more powerful than a beach break. Today plenty of side chop.
Without the board fins stability wasn't as good. Fell off a fair bit just standing & going for waves. But happy enough to discard the fins for good.
The Neilpryde foil did sing on most solid waves. But I think the high pitch screach has gone. Unless I didn't get a wave big enough. But so far so good.
Speed was awesome. Had me hanging on for dear life most times. Full on concentration pushing the nose down in the ditches & troughs so I wouldn't breach. Turning was only slow & controlled & had the small tail wing on. Wasn't game to hit the hard turns. Lol!
Should be getting the medium wing soon. So looking forward to giving that a go.

Yeah Piros. Small rear wing was on. But didn't have the confidence to push my turns in fast speed & lumpy sea. Would rather practise that in smaller more controlled situations.
But have noticed with small rear wing easier directional control, up & down. So obviously the left & right turns when leaning into them will be more responsive. As I did find out when hit by side chop just on take off which made me try & correct by a leaning turn.

Cool Piros! If I get that mast then my board will far outweigh the foil. At times I would have to walk a good 200 metres to my beach break. Would be great with a lighter board too.
Just got the medium wing delivered so looking forward to hitting the bigger sets with that.
I will do a learners review on it. Lol!

Anybody using footstraps on the JP Foil board?

The stance is only 23 to 25 inch depending which holes are used.
Not enough when you are 6'0 or taller?

And the back strap is on the centerline of the board, didn't feel right to me ( I only tried the footstraps on flat water)

I will probably start with EVA foothooks to make sure have and keep my feet in the right spot.
Thinking of using a yoga block to make them.

So if you were going to buy just one would it be the large or medium I am 85 kg and starting to get the hang of it on a Takuma foil. Mostly on smaller waves.

Agree with Toppleover.
At my breaks there are a good mix.
All beach & point breaks I could get away with the medium because they average from waist to shoulder high.
But inside my local lake entrance between two breakwalls the waves are weak until they get to shoulder & head high on very rare occasions. But they are a beautiful peeling wave where a large foil works great.

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Piros said..
This might help you guys who are getting launched , I recently blew the boxes on a prone board and picked up another which had the boxes just a couple of inches further forward. I just couldn't get the mast back far enough and I was getting launched on the take offs . So I came in and put one washer in the front screw on the rear wing (down tilted ). It was amazing what one tiny washer could make. It basically gave less lift letting me snap to my feet easier and it also had more down force like a rear wing on a race car putting more traction on the rear tyres. So it felt heaps better turning with way more grip. This is also handy for those sucky days on a Sup

On the other side of the coin if your foil is slow or hard to rise put a washer in the back screw to "GIve More Lift" (up tilted) check it out below. These washers are supplied with your kit if you ever wondered what they were for

Hey Piros,

I'm little confused by the above diagram. Usually if you are increasing the trailing edge height in relation to the leading edge on the rear wing (like the 3rd diagram), it produces more lift. And counter-wise if you reduce the trailing edge height in relation the leading edge on the rear wing (like Diagram 1) reduces lift.

Here's is the explanation from the Naish manual (which I find works).



Interesting NP are basically saying the opposite???

Interesting you got the desired effect trimming the front edge down (effectively lifting the trailing edge).

I could be wrong ,

JB

Yep you are right JB . I'm such a bone head I was focused on leading edge and not the trailing edge Just reverse what I said above

Haaa! I knew what you meant Piros. Didn't even realise your mistake. Knew what you meant.
On my paddleboard I have already tried the washer when using the big wing to reduce the lift. But! What I found out was less control in up & down stability with a large wing in fairly heavy surf at shoulder to head high. That is. After getting the foil up I had a bit of difficulty in keeping the foil steady in a horizontal position. I found I was nose diving more than breaching & found I was bouncing up & down more instead of keeping straight. Probably due to my balance muscles being used to the original foil set up. Also I think I should have used a smaller tail wing with washer for more steadiness.
But now with a medium main wing instead of the large on heavier waves I won't need any tail wing adjustments.
The large wing will be great in weak waves. Large rear tail wing will only be used in the weakest waves. Probably won't need washer adjustments at my weight of 80kgs plus or minus 3kgs.
Oh. And my learners review of the Neilpryde Medium wing is SMOOTH & MAGIC! Finally had it out in fairly smooth conditions, waist & shoulder height waves that break then rebuild with reducing whitewash until hitting shore break. Approx. 150 meter rides that let me try out a few carves. Loved it!

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toppleover said..
Just to clarify for the NP, Up tilted (washer in the back screw) = More lift.
Down tilted (washer in the front screw) = Less lift.

Toppleover, if you put a washer in the back screw you will effectively reduce lift. If you put a washer in the front screw you will effectively increase lift. The NP chart above (IMO) refers to things back to front.

Note: The actual lift the wing produces remains the same, but the rear wing angle will effect the way the front wing reacts to pressure, loads and speed. The more the trailing edge of the rear wing is lifted/increased (in relation to the leading edge), the more aggressive the lift will feel. This will produce more lift for the given weight and conditions in comparison to riding with a lesser angle mainly due to a naturally more aggressive AOA. This can be good for low speed and pumping as speeds are generally slower and it will feel like the board springs up underneath you instead of having to push it up. Obviously the opposite in higher speed situations were riding with a neutral or possibly negative (Trailing edge lower then leading edge on rear wing) setting may be more suitable. Riding with a neutral or negative will still feel neutral in lift but only at higher speeds in comparison to the the higher lift setting.

Best thing for most riders is to ride their wings neutral if at all in doubt.

For Naish Thrust wings, I recommend riding the Medium and Large neutral until you are competent. The XL and XXL like to be at least 1mm of positive (trailing edge up) trim and possibly up to 2 or 3mm depending on the conditions and level of skill of the rider.

I hope this further helps to clarify. I think the NP diagram is somewhat confusing, and recommend not using these terms with these representing images.

Ride safe,

JB

This is from the NP wind foil site re:- Tail wing adjustment , which is next to above diagram

Delivers inverted thrust to balance the main wing and maintain easy control and stability. Foil is perfectly trimmed for average weight rider (75- 80kg) with tail in neutral position. Heavier riders, especially in light winds or during the learning process might prefer slightly more stabilizing force that a down tilted rear wing provides. Also, this down-angled position increases low-end power and lift of the foil. At the same time lighter riders, especially in strong wind conditions, may benefit from a drag and lift reduction by reducing the downwards tilt angle of the rear wing. Less down-angle will reduce the differential angle between the two wings and make the foil feel less draggy in the water, resulting in the fastest possible foiling sensation.

Yeah agree JB best to talk trailing edge , especially when some rear wings are mounted on top of the fuselage . This really has done my head in. You put it best by saying UP = UP , Down = Down (trailing edge)