Select to expand quoteSnowgoose said..julesmoto said..Snowgoose said..Azure305 said..Snowgoose said..
www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/734362467439690/ thoughts on this one? It's above my budget of $4k but I did offer that amount..
Yep, put this one at the top of your list for sure!
Even you you pay a little more now, it'll be nowhere what you'll pay bringing the TB up to anywhere near the same as this. More space, more headroom, more everything....
Yes, it certainly is alot more of everything lol..I'm really liking the headroom.. Owner came back to me and said $6k. Don't know if it would still be around by the time I can pay that price though
Go and see him and the boat.Tell him your predicament and that you love his boat. Write up a simple option contract. You pay him 4000 now for the option to buy it for 2000 anytime in the next 4 months say. Explain to him that if you fail to come up with the extra 2000 he keeps the 4000 which pretty much assures him that you will go through with it and meanwhile it stays in his name. Then you come to a separate agreement to lease it for a dollar for the next 4? months. Presumably he has it insured. Options are often used in real estate and of course shares not to mention many other things. If you are short of money you do not want one that you have to fix up. It is far far cheaper to buy one with everything you need on it and already in the condition that you want. Take a look at the price of things on the internet such as anchors, rope, sails, turning blocks, winches and antifouling paint...
Hi Jules, I'd played around in my head with exactly that plan since seeing tge yacht and after your post I might give it a crack today, after all it's only $2500 more. Do you think take the TH MK3 over the Pacific 707?
FYI as I mentioned, sails + rigging on the TH MK3 is 10-15 years old!
I wouldn't like to venture an opinion without seeing the boats but all other things being equal I would certainly take the tophat and this tophat seems to have quite a bit off extra equipment. Not many boats were constructed as solidly as top hats.
Yes 10 to 15 year old rigging & sails may not be perfect. The Sails on the other boat didn't look too flash/clean either. 15 year old sails are fine to start off with provided they have been looked after and don't have tears or rips or holes. Anyway cheap self adhesive patches can be used on holes although perhaps not tears in stress areas .
You can't insure the rig on a boat with over 10 years old rigging but you can insure the boat apart from the rigging. If you plan to go to Lord Howe I would replace the rigging but if you are just familiarising yourself with the boat and learning to sail in a harbour or even reasonably close to shore in good weather with a good radio for the 1st 12 months it's probably a reasonable risk. Plenty of other people do it.
Thanks Jules, you've got it in a nutshell. Just need a cheap knockabout that's safe + easy to learn on & might even be kept beyond the learning process until an increase in size is warranted.
Your text:
*if you are just familiarising yourself with the boat and learning to sail in a harbour or even reasonably close to shore in good weather with a good radio for the 1st 12 months*
More than adequately describes my situation and future endeavours.
If you're using older rigging - and I won't admit how long I used one stay without any sign of failure 
* - make sure that you have a damn good set of bolt cutters, pliers, hacksaw with spare blades, sharp knife, properly maintained cotter pins etc, so you can dump the rig safely if it goes over the side in bad conditions. A fallen mast can hole and sink a boat quite easily, and if that happened an insurer could perhaps walk away.
The radio won't be of much help if the mast is over the side and the spar is threatening the hull as you drift onto the rocks.
With a boat the size of a Top Hat you could make your own stays using eye swages, although it's getting to the top end for that. Plenty of old boats used to use galvanised wire rigging, which is ugly but which could work if the current rigging is suspect. A close visual check can find many - but not all - problems. I've done rigging and fitted new spreaders etc on a slightly larger boat and it's not a tough job.
* I got interested in seeing how long a forestay could last with no problems, partly because it's a PITA to change one with a luff foil on it, but I should mention that I had it backed up with a huge line in case of failure. I'd changed every other wire but that one lasted for about 20 years with zero apparent issues.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
If you're using older rigging - and I won't admit how long I used one stay without any sign of failure * - make sure that you have a damn good set of bolt cutters, pliers, hacksaw with spare blades, sharp knife, properly maintained cotter pins etc, so you can dump the rig safely if it goes over the side in bad conditions. A fallen mast can hole and sink a boat quite easily, and if that happened an insurer could perhaps walk away.
The radio won't be of much help if the mast is over the side and the spar is threatening the hull as you drift onto the rocks.
With a boat the size of a Top Hat you could make your own stays using eye swages, although it's getting to the top end for that. Plenty of old boats used to use galvanised wire rigging, which is ugly but which could work if the current rigging is suspect. A close visual check can find many - but not all - problems. I've done rigging and fitted new spreaders etc on a slightly larger boat and it's not a tough job.
* I got interested in seeing how long a forestay could last with no problems, partly because it's a PITA to change one with a luff foil on it, but I should mention that I had it backed up with a huge line in case of failure. I'd changed every other wire but that one lasted for about 20 years with zero apparent issues.
Thanks Chris, I'll definitely keep those items on board I'm my tool box (amongst alot more I'm sure I'll need) but good to know I might be lucky enough to not have to replace anything immediately (fingers crossed!)
Six grand for a TH seems very cheap in the current market, if she was down my way I'd be tempted to have a look myself.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
If you're using older rigging - and I won't admit how long I used one stay without any sign of failure * - make sure that you have a damn good set of bolt cutters, pliers, hacksaw with spare blades, sharp knife, properly maintained cotter pins etc, so you can dump the rig safely if it goes over the side in bad conditions. A fallen mast can hole and sink a boat quite easily, and if that happened an insurer could perhaps walk away.
The radio won't be of much help if the mast is over the side and the spar is threatening the hull as you drift onto the rocks.
With a boat the size of a Top Hat you could make your own stays using eye swages, although it's getting to the top end for that. Plenty of old boats used to use galvanised wire rigging, which is ugly but which could work if the current rigging is suspect. A close visual check can find many - but not all - problems. I've done rigging and fitted new spreaders etc on a slightly larger boat and it's not a tough job.
* I got interested in seeing how long a forestay could last with no problems, partly because it's a PITA to change one with a luff foil on it, but I should mention that I had it backed up with a huge line in case of failure. I'd changed every other wire but that one lasted for about 20 years with zero apparent issues.
The SS fore stay on my boat was 34 years old when I pulled the mast and looked as good as new, the furler is basically a conduit that spins around the stay. Of course I replaced it. The rest of the rig was gal and looked ugly. I replaced the gal with gal and with minimal maintenance at eight year old it looks ok. If you have to toss your rigging @ the 10yr mark I'm surprised more folks don't use gal. We are talking Econo boats
Select to expand quoteMike367 said..
Six grand for a TH seems very cheap in the current market, if she was down my way I'd be tempted to have a look myself.
Seems like a very good deal, the problem is I can't get up there from Sydney to look at it with the current lockdown, and to be quite honest I don't know when they will end but I'm thinking worst case scenario end of November. 
Select to expand quoteSnowgoose said..Mike367 said..
Six grand for a TH seems very cheap in the current market, if she was down my way I'd be tempted to have a look myself.
Seems like a very good deal, the problem is I can't get up there from Sydney to look at it with the current lockdown, and to be quite honest I don't know when they will end but I'm thinking worst case scenario end of November.
At least you should have more money by then :-)
Select to expand quotewoko said..
The SS fore stay on my boat was 34 years old when I pulled the mast and looked as good as new, the furler is basically a conduit that spins around the stay. Of course I replaced it. The rest of the rig was gal and looked ugly. I replaced the gal with gal and with minimal maintenance at eight year old it looks ok. If you have to toss your rigging @ the 10yr mark I'm surprised more folks don't use gal. We are talking Econo boats
I have gal rigging with the exception of the forestay - not quite as "pretty" as SS but certainly does the trick!!
Select to expand quoteLazzz said..woko said..
The SS fore stay on my boat was 34 years old when I pulled the mast and looked as good as new, the furler is basically a conduit that spins around the stay. Of course I replaced it. The rest of the rig was gal and looked ugly. I replaced the gal with gal and with minimal maintenance at eight year old it looks ok. If you have to toss your rigging @ the 10yr mark I'm surprised more folks don't use gal. We are talking Econo boats
I have gal rigging with the exception of the forestay - not quite as "pretty" as SS but certainly does the trick!!
Doesn't it start rusting within a couple of years and then dribble rust stains down onto the deck?
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Lazzz said..woko said..
The SS fore stay on my boat was 34 years old when I pulled the mast and looked as good as new, the furler is basically a conduit that spins around the stay. Of course I replaced it. The rest of the rig was gal and looked ugly. I replaced the gal with gal and with minimal maintenance at eight year old it looks ok. If you have to toss your rigging @ the 10yr mark I'm surprised more folks don't use gal. We are talking Econo boats
I have gal rigging with the exception of the forestay - not quite as "pretty" as SS but certainly does the trick!!
Doesn't it start rusting within a couple of years and then dribble rust stains down onto the deck?
It takes a bit longer than a couple of years before it starts to rust. Then you could cold gal it or if you want to be real tight you could parcel & service it from the start. But you still have to toss it after 10 years for insurance
This is still cheap at the moment. a hell of a lot of boat for the money but the running costs would be scary. Running backstays and phenomenal loads on the deck gear. Would need several fit young people in the crew!
www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/C1980--Aqua-Craft--Maxi-Yacht/1090043204
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
This is still cheap at the moment. a hell of a lot of boat for the money but the running costs would be scary. Running backstays and phenomenal loads on the deck gear. Would need several fit young people in the crew!
www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/C1980--Aqua-Craft--Maxi-Yacht/1090043204
Dare I say it once ran on the proceeds of organised crime back in its hay day.
Select to expand quoteRingle said..Ramona said..
This is still cheap at the moment. a hell of a lot of boat for the money but the running costs would be scary. Running backstays and phenomenal loads on the deck gear. Would need several fit young people in the crew!
www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/C1980--Aqua-Craft--Maxi-Yacht/1090043204
Dare I say it once ran on the proceeds of organised crime back in its hay day.
I prefer to consider this Apollo as the proceeds of NSW poker machines.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..Ringle said..Ramona said..
This is still cheap at the moment. a hell of a lot of boat for the money but the running costs would be scary. Running backstays and phenomenal loads on the deck gear. Would need several fit young people in the crew!
www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/C1980--Aqua-Craft--Maxi-Yacht/1090043204
Dare I say it once ran on the proceeds of organised crime back in its hay day.
I prefer to consider this Apollo as the proceeds of NSW poker machines.
And an interesting certificate of operation, class 1 and non survey. Recently playing this game I'm a keen observer.
ps how many Apollo's raced ?
Select to expand quotewoko said..Ramona said..Ringle said..Ramona said..
This is still cheap at the moment. a hell of a lot of boat for the money but the running costs would be scary. Running backstays and phenomenal loads on the deck gear. Would need several fit young people in the crew!
www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/C1980--Aqua-Craft--Maxi-Yacht/1090043204
Dare I say it once ran on the proceeds of organised crime back in its hay day.
I prefer to consider this Apollo as the proceeds of NSW poker machines.
And an interesting certificate of operation, class 1 and non survey. Recently playing this game I'm a keen observer.
ps how many Apollo's raced ?
That was a leading question for a nerd. There were seven;
1 - Lexcen 57'er, owned by Alan Bond until 1972-ish when it was sold to Rooklyn, wrecked on Lady Elliott about 1981. I'm not saying anything about the mafia but I am saying I've been told that a black bag of highly sensitive information was the first thing the owner took when they decided to abandon.
2 - Apollo II, Bond, Lexcen M&W 45, Admiral's Cup 1973, now in Yamba after a long racing career.
3- Apollo III, Bond, Lexcen 53', failed Admiral's Cup triallist.
4- Peterson 46, ex Williwaw. Only did the 1979 Admiral's Cup trials in Bond's hands. One of the last and best of the Peterson "pintail" types, a very high tech boat for its day and an SORC winner with Connor driving, but outmoded by the 1979 trials by wider sterned boats. Sold to England and still racing in France, I think.
Then the un-numbered maxi, owned by Jack Rooklyn. Well known as the Gherkin and famous for racing the Parsnip and the Tomato.
5- Peterson 43, Bond, 1981 Admiral's Cup team member. Sort of a modified Serendipity 43, a classic Phase IV Peterson. Sold to the USA, I think.
6- Lexcen one tonner, circa 1983, not very successful, used as a twilight/cruiser in Melbourne?
Thanks Chris, I had no idea there was 7, I know Apollo 2, she hasn't been out for a while poor old girl
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..woko said..Ramona said..Ringle said..Ramona said..
This is still cheap at the moment. a hell of a lot of boat for the money but the running costs would be scary. Running backstays and phenomenal loads on the deck gear. Would need several fit young people in the crew!
www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/C1980--Aqua-Craft--Maxi-Yacht/1090043204
Dare I say it once ran on the proceeds of organised crime back in its hay day.
I prefer to consider this Apollo as the proceeds of NSW poker machines.
And an interesting certificate of operation, class 1 and non survey. Recently playing this game I'm a keen observer.
ps how many Apollo's raced ?
That was a leading question for a nerd. There were seven;
1 - Lexcen 57'er, owned by Alan Bond until 1972-ish when it was sold to Rooklyn, wrecked on Lady Elliott about 1981. I'm not saying anything about the mafia but I am saying I've been told that a black bag of highly sensitive information was the first thing the owner took when they decided to abandon.
2 - Apollo II, Bond, Lexcen M&W 45, Admiral's Cup 1973, now in Yamba after a long racing career.
3- Apollo III, Bond, Lexcen 53', failed Admiral's Cup triallist.
4- Peterson 46, ex Williwaw. Only did the 1979 Admiral's Cup trials in Bond's hands. One of the last and best of the Peterson "pintail" types, a very high tech boat for its day and an SORC winner with Connor driving, but outmoded by the 1979 trials by wider sterned boats. Sold to England and still racing in France, I think.
Then the un-numbered maxi, owned by Jack Rooklyn. Well known as the Gherkin and famous for racing the Parsnip and the Tomato.
5- Peterson 43, Bond, 1981 Admiral's Cup team member. Sort of a modified Serendipity 43, a classic Phase IV Peterson. Sold to the USA, I think.
6- Lexcen one tonner, circa 1983, not very successful, used as a twilight/cruiser in Melbourne?
I prefer your earlier observations Chris.
forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/14886-apollo/
Select to expand quoteRamona said..Chris 249 said..woko said..Ramona said..Ringle said..Ramona said..
This is still cheap at the moment. a hell of a lot of boat for the money but the running costs would be scary. Running backstays and phenomenal loads on the deck gear. Would need several fit young people in the crew!
www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/C1980--Aqua-Craft--Maxi-Yacht/1090043204
Dare I say it once ran on the proceeds of organised crime back in its hay day.
I prefer to consider this Apollo as the proceeds of NSW poker machines.
And an interesting certificate of operation, class 1 and non survey. Recently playing this game I'm a keen observer.
ps how many Apollo's raced ?
That was a leading question for a nerd. There were seven;
1 - Lexcen 57'er, owned by Alan Bond until 1972-ish when it was sold to Rooklyn, wrecked on Lady Elliott about 1981. I'm not saying anything about the mafia but I am saying I've been told that a black bag of highly sensitive information was the first thing the owner took when they decided to abandon.
2 - Apollo II, Bond, Lexcen M&W 45, Admiral's Cup 1973, now in Yamba after a long racing career.
3- Apollo III, Bond, Lexcen 53', failed Admiral's Cup triallist.
4- Peterson 46, ex Williwaw. Only did the 1979 Admiral's Cup trials in Bond's hands. One of the last and best of the Peterson "pintail" types, a very high tech boat for its day and an SORC winner with Connor driving, but outmoded by the 1979 trials by wider sterned boats. Sold to England and still racing in France, I think.
Then the un-numbered maxi, owned by Jack Rooklyn. Well known as the Gherkin and famous for racing the Parsnip and the Tomato.
5- Peterson 43, Bond, 1981 Admiral's Cup team member. Sort of a modified Serendipity 43, a classic Phase IV Peterson. Sold to the USA, I think.
6- Lexcen one tonner, circa 1983, not very successful, used as a twilight/cruiser in Melbourne?
I prefer your earlier observations Chris.
forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/14886-apollo/
Mate, Just spent last hour on SA reading post. Great stuff. I remember Apollo 2
when Becher had her . She won the tenth anniversary of the Westcoaster in 81'
boy that was a long one for us smaller boats. If I remember correctly I was told you could not access forward from the cockpit hatchway .Access was through the foredeck hatch on or was that Bacardi . OR am I dreaming.
Was there a new Apollo around 77/79 in PP that was dark blue with gold stripe?
The blue one around PP in '79 would have been Apollo IV, the former Williwaw. She was a top boat in the USA but outmoded by the wider stern boats like Syd's slightly smaller Peterson, Rags #4.
Apollo was sent to the UK anyway. I've got an idea she may have been chartered for the Admiral's Cup by Singapore. She later became a fixture around the UK as Nick Nack 2 and I think she's still running around the French offshore circuit under a different name.\\
I sailed her old sister Superstar a few times. Superstar was tin, Apollo IV was more high tech with carbon stanchions etc, but they were either hull sisters or very, very close to it in design.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
The blue one around PP in '79 would have been Apollo IV, the former Williwaw. She was a top boat in the USA but outmoded by the wider stern boats like Syd's slightly smaller Peterson, Rags #4.
Apollo was sent to the UK anyway. I've got an idea she may have been chartered for the Admiral's Cup by Singapore. She later became a fixture around the UK as Nick Nack 2 and I think she's still running around the French offshore circuit under a different name.\\
I sailed her old sister Superstar a few times. Superstar was tin, Apollo IV was more high tech with carbon stanchions etc, but they were either hull sisters or very, very close to it in design.
Thanks Chris,
I have always contended that it was her who past us coming back to Melb. from the Geelong weekend in 20 + knts. under sail pulling a crew on a ski behind. My brother reckons it was Challenge . Blue/Red ,fading memory , I know I'm right.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..Ringle said..Ramona said..
This is still cheap at the moment. a hell of a lot of boat for the money but the running costs would be scary. Running backstays and phenomenal loads on the deck gear. Would need several fit young people in the crew!
www.pickles.com.au/trucks/item/-/details/C1980--Aqua-Craft--Maxi-Yacht/1090043204
Dare I say it once ran on the proceeds of organised crime back in its hay day.
I prefer to consider this Apollo as the proceeds of NSW poker machines.
I'm afraid old Jack had a hand in many a nefarious scheme. He started from a criminal beginning. no matter how well like he was for paying cash and tipping those who worked on his boats.
Another Brolga:
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/deloraine/sail-boats/yacht-brolga-33-jessie-1974-baker-built/1279460343
www.ebay.com.au/itm/393503735449?hash=item5b9ea67e99:g:TK0AAOSwWv1hFLiW
One of Jonathon's specials on eBay that might be of interest to Snowgoose. The Hutton 24 is a quarter tonner hull with a different cabin. Would be a great Harbour sailer.
Not into wooden boats any more but if I was, I would be all over this one.
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/herreshoff-rozinante/265604
There was a time when I thought about building one after reading Herreshoff's Sensible Cruising Designs but the cost of materials was enough to kill off that stupid idea. I particularly like the small size for the length and alleged light wind ability. I don't know about cruising, perhaps day sailing or overnight trips?
Select to expand quote
The poor guy has been trying to sell his boat for maybe two years. Now we are in lockdown it is going to be even harder. Wonder what condition it is in....
Select to expand quote
I saw that one and to me it is a good buy. The failed engine is probably putting people off. It looks like an early Kubota from the photo but stating exactly what it is in the ad would be a good start. If it's Kubota the worst case scenario is a new short motor for about two and a half grand.
Select to expand quoteDrogueOne said..
Not into wooden boats any more but if I was, I would be all over this one.
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/sailing-boats/herreshoff-rozinante/265604
There was a time when I thought about building one after reading Herreshoff's Sensible Cruising Designs but the cost of materials was enough to kill off that stupid idea. I particularly like the small size for the length and alleged light wind ability. I don't know about cruising, perhaps day sailing or overnight trips?
Fun fact ...
Rozinante (Rocinante) is Don Quixote's horse in the two-part 1605/1615 novel Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes. In many ways, Rocinante is not only Don Quixote's horse, but also his double; like Don Quixote, he is awkward, past his prime, and engaged in a task beyond his capacities. Rocinante's name signifies his change in status from the "old nag" before being adopted by Don Quixote, to the "foremost" steed afterwards. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocinante
I wonder if Herreshoff knew this when he named the boat.
