Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..evlPanda said..Kamikuza said..evlPanda said..Kamikuza said..FormulaNova said..
What do you mean by the vacccines are forcing the virus to mutate?
Evolution. If potential hosts are harder to infect because they have greater immunity for whatever reason, then the more infectious and contagious strains become more common in a population.
Thankfully there's only a certain amount of mutation a virus can handle until it does itself out of a job.
A virus is not conscious. Neither is evolution. Things don't "evolve to survive", they just die out if they can't survive the new environment.
...which is what you said, kinda sorta, but the whole conversation makes it sound conscious.
Just to be clear the vaccine is not forcing the virus to evolve. If your body rejects the virus, kills it, it ain't going to be mutating in your body.But the vaccine allows you to survive the virus, so it can mutate in you!
Your body kills the virus, as much as it can, which means ...there is less of it, if any, to mutate.
That is: a vaccinated person has less of the virus to mutate in them than a non-vaccinated person.
So yes, the virus can mutate inside a vaccinated person, but it is less likely to. And this is all about percentages; nothing is 100% (except death).But I did my own research and I found that mutated viruses have to be stronger to survive in a vaccinated person.
Mutations occur randomly. If/when a mutation occurs in a vaccinated person it is less likely to survive than if it occurred in a non-vaccinated person. Because a vaccinated person has anti-bodies (many) that will go further toward killing it than a non-vaccinated person has (none).
Saying that vaccinated people somehow help the virus get stronger, by attacking it, is akin to saying "We shouldn't have fought the Japanese because they just learned our tactics and became stronger. We should have let them win and then they would have just ...died out naturally.. i dunno, really."
I neither said nor implied that evolution is conscious.
Genes that survive to be passed on, survive and are passed on.
There are various selection pressures, and a hostile environment (a vaccinated host) is one of them.
If a virus survives in a vaccinated host because of whatever mutation, then that virus and its genes will survive and be passed on.
There's no force from the vaccine, there's only selection of survivability traits...
...which is what you said, kinda sorta, but the whole conversation makes it sound conscious.
No I didn't, not even kinda sorta.
... which bit exactly gives you that mistaken impression?
FormulaNova said..
What do you mean by the vacccines are forcing the virus to mutate?
Kamikuza said..
Evolution
You can't force a virus to do anything.
And it wasn't a mistaken impression, i know you said the same i said, it's just that one could easily read it otherwise.
We are on the same page, and it's a small point, is all. Just to be clear. : )
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..japie said..Mr Milk said..
"Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture"
Without researching how much chloroquine can be introduced into a human body without causing other harm this is not much use. You can poison anything in vitro.
If someone digs into this a bit will they find it's something like the Ivermectin furphy? ie The concentration being used is 100 times what is a safe dose in a living patient
You are trying to defend the indefensible. HCQ and Ivermectin in combination with zinc, doxycycline, and cortical steroids have been proven in over forty trials worldwide to significantly reduce mortality and are highly effective against Covid in the early stages of the disease.
The MSM have fought tooth and nail to bury this information often citing the fraudulent study published in the Lancet which was subsequently withdrawn.
Right from the outset Fauci and his robbers have done their utmost to assure the public that the only solution is vaccination because they knew that the emergency authorisation of the "vaccines" could only be issued in the absence of alternative treatments.
Cloroquine side effects may include "attempts at killing oneself" and "Mental/mood changes (such as confusion, personality changes, unusual thoughts/behavior, depression, feeling being watched, hallucinating)"
www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/details
Even a single tablet can kill a child: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15837026/
There's a reason Trump and the shadowy figures behind him wanted to push this on everybody.
Nice try.
Been around since 1950 and safe for pregnant women.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroxychloroquine
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..japie said..Mr Milk said..
"Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture"
Without researching how much chloroquine can be introduced into a human body without causing other harm this is not much use. You can poison anything in vitro.
If someone digs into this a bit will they find it's something like the Ivermectin furphy? ie The concentration being used is 100 times what is a safe dose in a living patient
You are trying to defend the indefensible. HCQ and Ivermectin in combination with zinc, doxycycline, and cortical steroids have been proven in over forty trials worldwide to significantly reduce mortality and are highly effective against Covid in the early stages of the disease.
The MSM have fought tooth and nail to bury this information often citing the fraudulent study published in the Lancet which was subsequently withdrawn.
Right from the outset Fauci and his robbers have done their utmost to assure the public that the only solution is vaccination because they knew that the emergency authorisation of the "vaccines" could only be issued in the absence of alternative treatments.
Cloroquine side effects may include "attempts at killing oneself" and "Mental/mood changes (such as confusion, personality changes, unusual thoughts/behavior, depression, feeling being watched, hallucinating)"
www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/details
Even a single tablet can kill a child: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15837026/
There's a reason Trump and the shadowy figures behind him wanted to push this on everybody.
And what side effects will be listed on this vaccine with emerging and further data in the future. If we are ever privvy to it in this current info war.
So to those who are saying no to the vaccine, will Albo's promise of $300 change your mind?
Select to expand quoteGWatto said..
So to those who are saying no to the vaccine, will Albo's promise of $300 change your mind?
No amount of money will make me accept the death jab.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..leto said..
Guys is it for real in Oz
He missed the part where it doesn't need to be a police officer that enters your home and takes your kids, any "authorised person" can do it, no minimum qualification, and it's even worse if you're black, for the purpose of racial sensitivity of course
We haven't seen/heard that guy for a while. He must be offering balanced, thought out, insightful comments. I had better watch it.
What is up with the formatting?
Select to expand quoteeppo said..evlPanda said..japie said..Mr Milk said..
"Chloroquine is effective in preventing the spread of SARS CoV in cell culture"
Without researching how much chloroquine can be introduced into a human body without causing other harm this is not much use. You can poison anything in vitro.
If someone digs into this a bit will they find it's something like the Ivermectin furphy? ie The concentration being used is 100 times what is a safe dose in a living patient
You are trying to defend the indefensible. HCQ and Ivermectin in combination with zinc, doxycycline, and cortical steroids have been proven in over forty trials worldwide to significantly reduce mortality and are highly effective against Covid in the early stages of the disease.
The MSM have fought tooth and nail to bury this information often citing the fraudulent study published in the Lancet which was subsequently withdrawn.
Right from the outset Fauci and his robbers have done their utmost to assure the public that the only solution is vaccination because they knew that the emergency authorisation of the "vaccines" could only be issued in the absence of alternative treatments.
Cloroquine side effects may include "attempts at killing oneself" and "Mental/mood changes (such as confusion, personality changes, unusual thoughts/behavior, depression, feeling being watched, hallucinating)"
www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/details
Even a single tablet can kill a child: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15837026/
There's a reason Trump and the shadowy figures behind him wanted to push this on everybody.
And what side effects will be listed on this vaccine with emerging and further data in the future. If we are ever privvy to it in this current info war.
I can say for a fact that it makes a person angry and short tempered when replying on internet forums... oh hang on, I was like that before.
No side-effects!
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..FormulaNova said..
Yeah, well, instead of parroting something, an explanation of what you mean helps. Just repeating the same thing that someone else has said in a previous post adds nothing.
I see, its the 'do your own research' defense. Surely followed by 'educate yourself'?
I can't understand things for you or read your mind. I've given explanations as I understand them, if you don't understand or have further questions about my points, feel free to ask specific questions...
... but if you just can't be bothered to look up the basics, that's not on me to provide you with a free education.
I think you have already replied to this. When you and psycho joe just stated a position without a reason, I did do the research and 'educated myself' and even provided the education to you. No need to thank me though 
A good teacher, not that either of us are one, is able to understand things for others and explain them, and even approach them from different angles to help the understanding. A bad teacher says 'you weren't listening, I just told you'.
From where I see it, Brazil and India had next to no vaccination when Delta leapt from the blocks and out competed the other variants, so I think we can discount the vaccination making much difference to evolution of variants for the moment.
Select to expand quotesnoidberg said..GWatto said..
So to those who are saying no to the vaccine, will Albo's promise of $300 change your mind?
No amount of money will make me accept the death jab.
Just remember that once you have Covid it is too late. If you are lucky you get through it. Which may provide immunity to you if you survive the first bout.
$300?? I wasted my time already. Can Morrison come to the party and then backdate it?
Select to expand quoteGWatto said..
So to those who are saying no to the vaccine, will Albo's promise of $300 change your mind?
I think the others had a better idea when they said mix the jab with cocaine. You would get people going back for their 4th and 5th jab... each month.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said...
Just remember that once you have Covid it is too late. If you are lucky you get through it. Which may provide immunity to you if you survive the first bout. you only have a small chance of suffering any problems worse than you would get from the common flu. These chances are known, unlike what the long term effects you may suffer from after being coerced, bribed and discriminated against into accepting multiple injections of an experimental treatment.
FTFY
For those that want to make their own choice, go ahead. Its not compulsory here and don't assume vaccines are without risk or Covid itself is without risk.
Here are a few that show its pretty random who it affects. If you want to gamble with the vaccine or gamble with Covid, its up to you.
www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/health/vocal-antivaxxer-dies-of-covid-after-publicly-speaking-out-against-vaccine/news-story/14ab5fc5265ee1ba533918ac5ae77317
www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/antivaxxer-dies-of-covid19-complications/news-story/93302d97559f26c9387132b1ee6a0779
www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/vaccine-sceptic-and-hillsong-church-member-dies-from-covid/news-story/63c8371f03d441ee751c1c68197d0ed0
www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/doctor-dies-after-publicly-declaring-covid19-vaccine-unnecessary/news-story/159b8f221291511c6b164e7290b40e4e
www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/mum-who-didnt-get-covid-vaccine-dies-of-delta-variant/news-story/6d007d5078ef18df4d9f6fe55a89cfe0
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
For those that want to make their own choice, go ahead. Its not compulsory here and don't assume vaccines are without risk or Covid itself is without risk.
Here are a few that show its pretty random who it affects. If you want to gamble with the vaccine or gamble with Covid, its up to you.
www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/health/vocal-antivaxxer-dies-of-covid-after-publicly-speaking-out-against-vaccine/news-story/14ab5fc5265ee1ba533918ac5ae77317
www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/antivaxxer-dies-of-covid19-complications/news-story/93302d97559f26c9387132b1ee6a0779
www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/vaccine-sceptic-and-hillsong-church-member-dies-from-covid/news-story/63c8371f03d441ee751c1c68197d0ed0
www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/doctor-dies-after-publicly-declaring-covid19-vaccine-unnecessary/news-story/159b8f221291511c6b164e7290b40e4e
www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/mum-who-didnt-get-covid-vaccine-dies-of-delta-variant/news-story/6d007d5078ef18df4d9f6fe55a89cfe0
OH NOES!!!
Cherry-picked stories designed to strike fear!!!
What will we ever dooooo!!!???!!!
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
I think you have already replied to this. When you and psycho joe just stated a position without a reason, I did do the research and 'educated myself' and even provided the education to you. No need to thank me though
A good teacher, not that either of us are one, is able to understand things for others and explain them, and even approach them from different angles to help the understanding. A bad teacher says 'you weren't listening, I just told you'.
From where I see it, Brazil and India had next to no vaccination when Delta leapt from the blocks and out competed the other variants, so I think we can discount the vaccination making much difference to evolution of variants for the moment.
I must have missed that.
Teaching in person to students you have a relationship with and typing a few lines on a forum in response to some guy are completely different. In reality, I'm only responding to what I think you want a response too, so of course it's super-limited.
And yet... it's the variant that going around now and infecting vaccinated people...
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..
FormulaNova said..
What do you mean by the vacccines are forcing the virus to mutate?
Kamikuza said..
Evolution
You can't force a virus to do anything.
And it wasn't a mistaken impression, i know you said the same i said, it's just that one could easily read it otherwise.
We are on the same page, and it's a small point, is all. Just to be clear. : )
It wasn't me that used the phrase "forced".
What I did do was not be a nit-picker and accept it as a common expression of the application of selection pressures...
Footy Finals this year the unvaxed are allowed to go, but only due to the slow roll out, but next year they have already made the rule of no vax no entry.
And thats just the footy.
So choosing not to get the jab you will also be choosing not to be at major events, festivals, flying etc. That is part of the choice.
But you will still be able to post conspiracy's on Seabeeze twitter, so all is not lost.
On a related topic, I was reading a journal article "is the cure worse than the disease" which attempted to show that Covid is worse than lockdowns. In summary they claimed that Covid was definitely worse than lockdowns and and lockdowns are justified. In arriving at that summation they sighted Australia and New Zealand as lockdown posterboys but completely neglected to acknowledge the international border closures, they completely dismissed the 400% increase in domestic violence, their analysis was missing so many huge details I would describe it as a vacuous load of ****, then to top it off they dismissed the transfer of burden from the aged to the young and threw in a calculation that values all lives equally instead of the standard YLL measurement that real epidemiologists use which puts their calculations out by a massive amount.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
Not having a control group just seems unscientific.
You guys will be the control group.....well....the group being controlled. lol
But as you know, that is your choice.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..psychojoe said..
Not having a control group just seems unscientific.
You guys will be the control group.....well....the group being controlled. lol
I think that's what he was getting at... i.e. he will be in the control group.
It's a heck of a risk though. Once you are committed, you are committed. No backing out and saying 'I should have taken one of the vaccines 2 months ago'.
Mind you, a lot of us could be saying 'why did I take that dam vaccine 2 months ago' if we get problems with it.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..FormulaNova said..
I think you have already replied to this. When you and psycho joe just stated a position without a reason, I did do the research and 'educated myself' and even provided the education to you. No need to thank me though
A good teacher, not that either of us are one, is able to understand things for others and explain them, and even approach them from different angles to help the understanding. A bad teacher says 'you weren't listening, I just told you'.
From where I see it, Brazil and India had next to no vaccination when Delta leapt from the blocks and out competed the other variants, so I think we can discount the vaccination making much difference to evolution of variants for the moment.
I must have missed that.
Teaching in person to students you have a relationship with and typing a few lines on a forum in response to some guy are completely different. In reality, I'm only responding to what I think you want a response too, so of course it's super-limited.
And yet... it's the variant that going around now and infecting vaccinated people...
Yeah, I think the time delay makes things worse. You could be arguing something that was mentioned earlier and resolved or take a different tack entirely.
I agree with you about 'forced' being a term that can be related to the evolution of the virus rather than an actual forced change, but I wonder if you would be so liberal with the interpretation should someone else have said it
You did use the term 'forced' though, but we all know how evolution works, at least I think we do.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Yeah, I think the time delay makes things worse. You could be arguing something that was mentioned earlier and resolved or take a different tack entirely.
I agree with you about 'forced' being a term that can be related to the evolution of the virus rather than an actual forced change, but I wonder if you would be so liberal with the interpretation should someone else have said it
You did use the term 'forced' though, but we all know how evolution works, at least I think we do.
Not to mention spending many minutes typing and carefully editing a reply, thinking you got it clear and concise, then having the forum software do something wonky and lose it all. Additionally, it's hard to tell *how* someone is replying... So it might appear that I hit and run reply here, but sometimes I can't keep up with the flow of the conversation. I think 3 or 4 pages had gone by between our interactions on that particular point... and these days I tend not to read comments I'm not quoted in. Trying not to descend into HW again.
Yes. I like to give everyone the benefit of the doubt before I turn pedant on them or assume bad faith on their part. Usually, but there are exceptions.
EDIT: Ok, I found it: page 23 or earlier? I found it quoted on 24...my use of quotation marks in that case was to show a technically inaccurate but colloquially acceptable use of term. And it was "forcing" not forced
My bad, I didn't remember doing that.
A 2018 article:
Rupert Murdoch has been caught aggressively lobbying the Australian government to introduce harsh vaccination policies on behalf of Big Pharma.
newspunch.com/rupert-murdoch-vaccination-policy-australia/
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
Footy Finals this year the unvaxed are allowed to go, but only due to the slow roll out, but next year they have already made the rule of no vax no entry.
And thats just the footy.
So choosing not to get the jab you will also be choosing not to be at major events, festivals, flying etc. That is part of the choice.
But you will still be able to post conspiracy's on Seabeeze twitter, so all is not lost.
New York has just announced that indoor areas such as restaurants, gyms and entertainment are for the vaccinated only. No option of getting tested in the days prior to entry for unvaccinated. So the unvaccinated will be severely limited to what they can do in normal life not just major events.
It's a choice people will have to make, no, the vaccines will never be mandated, but there will be restrictions placed on those not being vaccinated.
Now I see the big push for under 40s to get the jab .
Since the start of the"global pandemic" , 6 Australians under 40 have died of/with Covid.
That's one chance in over 2,000,000 of being cruelly struck down.
Let's panic!!!!
www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2021/06/covid-19-vaccination-weighing-up-the-potential-benefits-against-risk-of-harm-from-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca_1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwizx7CQ2JXyAhXFyDgGHVy9CD0QFnoECBQQAg&usg=AOvVaw2werv_rjl-WAfcYmRHvMa1
Government figures show that they expect to save 0 lives by jabbing everyone under 40.
The thought just came to me that these are the sort of statistics that brought on the war on illegal drugs .
People who don't use them recreationally are all for that .
And those that do don't care .
I know there's a lot of social issues with that but they would disappear if they were regulated and legal.
Just right now before my morning cuppa .
I'm thinking anti vaccination people are going on about there freedoms and there choices yet I'm old enough to know people who had polio and the reality is that they can infect others .
Yet the use of recreational drugs in not contagious and it's still the freedom of choice thing but there okay to force there will onto others with that .
I'm not condoning drug use or anything like that
but the reality is that we have lost that war and a new approach is needed & it just seems hypocritical with the it's my body my choice when we actually already have a situation that is not infectious but is mandated and supported by the majority and everyone is comfortable with that.
It's just a thought & I'm interested in other opinions on that.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
You guys will be the control group.....well....the group being controlled. lol
Says the one being controlled by the rampant fear mongering.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..lotofwind said..
You guys will be the control group.....well....the group being controlled. lol
Says the one being controlled by the rampant fear mongering.
I started to reply to that but cancelled because I realised that it really was quite pointless!
Peter McCollough says in one of his interviews that it's almost as though a large percentage of doctors are in a trance.
Brian Gerrish from the UK Column delves into this phenomenon in depth. Been doing it for a fair while before the onset of Covid.
The British and French government have been colluding on the use of applied psychology in order to manipulate the population into accepting government policies. The UK government states in one of their documents on the subject that in the unlikely event that an individual realised that their stance on a policy has changed they will not be able to figure out how it happened.
Fear is a major factor in the technique.
I'm immune to it. As is everyone else who does not watch television, listen to the radio of read the mainstream papers.
Select to expand quoteactiomax said..
The thought just came to me that these are the sort of statistics that brought on the war on illegal drugs .
People who don't use them recreationally are all for that .
And those that do don't care .
I know there's a lot of social issues with that but they would disappear if they were regulated and legal.
Just right now before my morning cuppa .
I'm thinking anti vaccination people are going on about there freedoms and there choices yet I'm old enough to know people who had polio and the reality is that they can infect others .
Yet the use of recreational drugs in not contagious and it's still the freedom of choice thing but there okay to force there will onto others with that .
I'm not condoning drug use or anything like that
but the reality is that we have lost that war and a new approach is needed & it just seems hypocritical with the it's my body my choice when we actually already have a situation that is not infectious but is mandated and supported by the majority and everyone is comfortable with that.
It's just a thought & I'm interested in other opinions on that.
No. Not for one second. Having an intelligent measure in place to reduce the likelihood of overdose is probably a good idea, but prohibition is just plain wrong, especially given marijuana, be it medical or otherwise ameliorates MS suffering. Microdosing mushies has a strong correlation with relieving mental health issues, although obviously it makes issues if you go to hard, like anything really, even water will kill you if you drink too much.
Then there's toilet paper and other products, the only reason we're not wiping with superior environmentally friendly hemp paper is because of these overreaching controls, although bamboo TP has hit the market now, a little pricy but great.
