Covid-19

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FormulaNova said..
This is interesting stuff as it is to be expected to have lower protection levels. As more people get vaccinated, and the virus mutates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated, you are going to get further from the variants that the existing vaccines are based on.

There is an article on this on the news website today. www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/omicrons-rapid-spread-is-likely-due-to-its-ability-to-evade-immunity-offered-by-vaccines-study-finds/news-story/2a8c4017d6f1b28f8e4b7f52e8380cad

It says:

"
For the unvaccinated, Omicron had only a 1.17 times higher secondary infection rate than Delta. But for the fully vaccinated, Omicron caused 2.61 times more secondary infections than Delta, and for the booster-vaccinated, Omicron caused 3.66 times more secondary infections than Delta.

In other words, unvaccinated individuals were just as vulnerable to Omicron as they were to Delta, but vaccinated individuals were much more likely to be infected by Omicron than they were by Delta.
...
Vaccine effectiveness against symptoms was reduced to around 40 per cent for the fully vaccinated and 80 per cent against severe illness for Omicron. Booster shots increased those numbers to 86 per cent and 98 per cent respectively.

Omicron is similarly effective at evading immunity offered by prior infection, according to a study from the Imperial College London Covid-19 response team.
....
The new variant was 5.41 times more likely to reinfect someone who has some level of immunity than Delta was, the researchers wrote.
"

The virologists in Wuhan spent millions of dollars developing this virus.

Australian "Health Campaign" Covid Ad

El Salvador Government Covid Ad

rumble.com/vqx3kb-the-pfizer-inoculations-do-more-harm-than-good.html

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FormulaNova said..

This is interesting stuff as it is to be expected to have lower protection levels. As more people get vaccinated, and the virus mutates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated, you are going to get further from the variants that the existing vaccines are based on.

There is an article on this on the news website today. www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/omicrons-rapid-spread-is-likely-due-to-its-ability-to-evade-immunity-offered-by-vaccines-study-finds/news-story/2a8c4017d6f1b28f8e4b7f52e8380cad

It says:

"
For the unvaccinated, Omicron had only a 1.17 times higher secondary infection rate than Delta. But for the fully vaccinated, Omicron caused 2.61 times more secondary infections than Delta, and for the booster-vaccinated, Omicron caused 3.66 times more secondary infections than Delta.

In other words, unvaccinated individuals were just as vulnerable to Omicron as they were to Delta, but vaccinated individuals were much more likely to be infected by Omicron than they were by Delta.
...
Vaccine effectiveness against symptoms was reduced to around 40 per cent for the fully vaccinated and 80 per cent against severe illness for Omicron. Booster shots increased those numbers to 86 per cent and 98 per cent respectively.

Omicron is similarly effective at evading immunity offered by prior infection, according to a study from the Imperial College London Covid-19 response team.
....
The new variant was 5.41 times more likely to reinfect someone who has some level of immunity than Delta was, the researchers wrote.
"

This is really just confirming what other studies are showing. The vaccines are increasingly bad at stopping infection and spread (symptomatic disease) But they are still very good at stopping severe disease even without the boosters. The boosters only top up the small protection against contracting it for a short period.

What we don't have much data on yet is the occurance of severe disease from Omicron in the unvaccinated. Omicron now appears to be about the same as a mild flu or cold (or no syptoms in most) in vaccinated people. It is definately less severe overall, but may well be only a bad flu like in unvaccinated too, but is yet to be confirmed.

What is evident is now that Omi has taken over in Australia and most people are vaccinated there is no reason for any sort of restrictions, mandates or even testing. There are too many cases to test, official positive numbers are now meaningless. hospitalisations rates are very low on case numbers and all evidence is pointing to a case peak in the next week or so.

It's all over, someone just needs to tell the media and government......

After lining up for 6 hours to do his PCR test on Xmas Day, Joe finally got his results back. Unfortunately, his test came back positive.

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Paradox said..
What is evident is now that Omi has taken over in Australia and most people are vaccinated there is no reason for any sort of restrictions, mandates or even testing. There are too many cases to test, official positive numbers are now meaningless. hospitalisations rates are very low on case numbers and all evidence is pointing to a case peak in the next week or so.

It's all over, someone just needs to tell the media and government......

Well, "it's over" could be the case, unless there happens to be another strain that s just as contagious (well, it doesn't even need to be) as Omicron, but more deadly. Then we are back at square one again.

I am worried that people will jump on the 'it's over bandwagon' and then 3 months later another variant arrives.

Can you guarantee that a new variant doesn't spring up that is more deadly than Omicron? Of course you can't. Which makes me wonder how the world got out of it last time with next to no intervention.

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FormulaNova said..
Well, "it's over" could be the case, unless there happens to be another strain that s just as contagious (well, it doesn't even need to be) as Omicron, but more deadly. Then we are back at square one again.

I am worried that people will jump on the 'it's over bandwagon' and then 3 months later another variant arrives.

Can you guarantee that a new variant doesn't spring up that is more deadly than Omicron? Of course you can't. Which makes me wonder how the world got out of it last time with next to no intervention.

So... with all the natural immunity, vaccinations and boosters, it'd have to be many, many times more deadly and contagious than the worst variant so far.

Yeah, won't happen -- I guarantee it.

It's already over, the propaganda just hasn't caught up with reality.

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FormulaNova said..

Paradox said..
What is evident is now that Omi has taken over in Australia and most people are vaccinated there is no reason for any sort of restrictions, mandates or even testing. There are too many cases to test, official positive numbers are now meaningless. hospitalisations rates are very low on case numbers and all evidence is pointing to a case peak in the next week or so.

It's all over, someone just needs to tell the media and government......

Well, "it's over" could be the case, unless there happens to be another strain that s just as contagious (well, it doesn't even need to be) as Omicron, but more deadly. Then we are back at square one again.

I am worried that people will jump on the 'it's over bandwagon' and then 3 months later another variant arrives.

Can you guarantee that a new variant doesn't spring up that is more deadly than Omicron? Of course you can't. Which makes me wonder how the world got out of it last time with next to no intervention.

"Its over" means the spread in australia has reached the point of no return, the government decided to "let it rip". We've managed to keep it at bay in WA while everyone gets vaccinated, but eventually it'll be here too. Perhaps "its out of the bag" would be better terminology.


of course there will be other variants, thats how flu viruses work. For better or worse its too late to go back to zero, Best we can do is reduce the damage to the economy by not playing stupid lockdown games. masks are probably still of benefit, but there is absolutely no benefit what so ever to contact tracing on the east coast now. Its far too late for that game.

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FormulaNova said..
Carantoc. The banter used to be fun, but now you just seem angry. Has Macro stopped returning your emails?

Sorry dude.

But you got all serious and chicken little with stuff like :

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..
Well, "it's over" could be the case, unless there happens to be another strain that s just as contagious (well, it doesn't even need to be) as Omicron, but more deadly. Then we are back at square one again.

I am worried that people will jump on the 'it's over bandwagon' and then 3 months later another variant arrives.

Can you guarantee that a new variant doesn't spring up that is more deadly than Omicron? Of course you can't. Which makes me wonder how the world got out of it last time with next to no intervention.

Of course there will be something else. Of course it isn't "over". It is never over. "It" will never be "over". Since the evolution of humans it has been a constant theme of never being over.

And that's the whole point from day one of this. It isn't about it being "over". We have to live with it. Live with it the best we can. Along with all the other things we have to live with. Which, as people keep trying to point out, there are innumerable "other things" we live with worst than this.

But that doesn't make an tasty headline for the six o'clock news. Fat man dies of cancer isn't as good as young girl dies with covid.

I just don't get why you seem to lap it up. After 19 pages of this thread and umpteen pages of multiple other threads I find it hard to understand how you seem to always accept "the official line", when the "official line" is so inconsistent, so hypocritical and so inept.


Look, the notion it would go away and then "be over" was a dumb notion some dumb New Zealander called Jacinta Dumb had. Then everyone else inexplicably jumped on the bandwagon thinking they could stop it bolting before they closed the border gates (may have mixed my metaphors there).

But the only idea they had for making it "over" was "hey, if we bury our heads in the sand and do nothing except make everyone else bury their heads in a mask it will go away", which was then amplified by the media into "don't panic Mr Mannering Sir, we're all gonna die unless we stay home and die..."

The vaccine was never going to, and never will, "make it over" no matter how many booster shots of the same **** you have. Wearing a mask and telling the government where you have been won't make it "over". State leader W calling state leader V useless won't make it "over".

You know what FN - and this might come as a sudden realization to you - the time that you will consider it essentially "over" is when you catch it and .. then you just carry on. The people least worried about covid are the people who have had covid. Go figure that one.


So in answer to your question muse of how the world got over the last time ... wow, they just lived with it they best they could. Yep, sometimes they built new water systems. sometimes they built new sewerage systems. Sometimes they carried oranges in the ships. But they carried on.


Anyways - yeah right today's headlines and political-media storm - Rapid Antigen Tests. Yep, they will be the solution. If we only all test ourselves three times a day we can make this thing "over". The whole problem with covid is that nobody can get a RAT at Priceline. Lock the borders down until Priceline has RATS. You smoking on that fable yet FN ??

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Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Carantoc. The banter used to be fun, but now you just seem angry. Has Macro stopped returning your emails?

Sorry dude.

But you got all serious and chicken little with stuff like :

FormulaNova said..
Well, "it's over" could be the case, unless there happens to be another strain that s just as contagious (well, it doesn't even need to be) as Omicron, but more deadly. Then we are back at square one again.

I am worried that people will jump on the 'it's over bandwagon' and then 3 months later another variant arrives.

Can you guarantee that a new variant doesn't spring up that is more deadly than Omicron? Of course you can't. Which makes me wonder how the world got out of it last time with next to no intervention.

Of course there will be something else. Of course it isn't "over". It is never over. "It" will never be "over". Since the evolution of humans it has been a constant theme of never being over.

And that's the whole point from day one of this. It isn't about it being "over". We have to live with it. Live with it the best we can. Along with all the other things we have to live with. Which, as people keep trying to point out, there are innumerable "other things" we live with worst than this.

But that doesn't make an tasty headline for the six o'clock news. Fat man dies of cancer isn't as good as young girl dies with covid.

I just don't get why you seem to lap it up. After 19 pages of this thread and umpteen pages of multiple other threads I find it hard to understand how you seem to always accept "the official line", when the "official line" is so inconsistent, so hypocritical and so inept.


Look, the notion it would go away and then "be over" was a dumb notion some dumb New Zealander called Jacinta Dumb had. Then everyone else inexplicably jumped on the bandwagon thinking they could stop it bolting before they closed the border gates (may have mixed my metaphors there).

But the only idea they had for making it "over" was "hey, if we bury our heads in the sand and do nothing except make everyone else bury their heads in a mask it will go away", which was then amplified by the media into "don't panic Mr Mannering Sir, we're all gonna die unless we stay home and die..."

The vaccine was never going to, and never will, "make it over" no matter how many booster shots of the same **** you have. Wearing a mask and telling the government where you have been won't make it "over". State leader W calling state leader V useless won't make it "over".

You know what FN - and this might come as a sudden realization to you - the time that you will consider it essentially "over" is when you catch it and .. then you just carry on. The people least worried about covid are the people who have had covid. Go figure that one.


So in answer to your question muse of how the world got over the last time ... wow, they just lived with it they best they could. Yep, sometimes they built new water systems. sometimes they built new sewerage systems. Sometimes they carried oranges in the ships. But they carried on.


Anyways - yeah right today's headlines and political-media storm - Rapid Antigen Tests. Yep, they will be the solution. If we only all test ourselves three times a day we can make this thing "over". The whole problem with covid is that nobody can get a RAT at Priceline. Lock the borders down until Priceline has RATS. You smoking on that fable yet FN ??

I think its easy right now to say 'it's over, we have to live with it' when its a pretty benign variant. Hopefully Omicron does provide some protection to other variants, and maybe that way we do get natural immunity to it, i.e. enough to make it similar to the common flu. Maybe that is the answer... if most people get it, or are already vaccinated.

I don't think we could have had the same response to Delta.

This whole time, "we" i.e. everyone, has been feeling their way through it. We haven't seen this before in modern times, so its understandable that people make mistakes, under-reactions, over-reactions, and anything else.

I worry when people think that the people in charge are deliberately making decisions that are wrong. Even when our government make mistakes, I may not like it, but I understand that this is the first time they have had to deal with this. Is there really an 'official line' or just various people making their best guesses? I would say they are just making the best guesses they can.


'

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FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Carantoc. The banter used to be fun, but now you just seem angry. Has Macro stopped returning your emails?

Sorry dude.

But you got all serious and chicken little with stuff like :

FormulaNova said..
Well, "it's over" could be the case, unless there happens to be another strain that s just as contagious (well, it doesn't even need to be) as Omicron, but more deadly. Then we are back at square one again.

I am worried that people will jump on the 'it's over bandwagon' and then 3 months later another variant arrives.

Can you guarantee that a new variant doesn't spring up that is more deadly than Omicron? Of course you can't. Which makes me wonder how the world got out of it last time with next to no intervention.

Of course there will be something else. Of course it isn't "over". It is never over. "It" will never be "over". Since the evolution of humans it has been a constant theme of never being over.

And that's the whole point from day one of this. It isn't about it being "over". We have to live with it. Live with it the best we can. Along with all the other things we have to live with. Which, as people keep trying to point out, there are innumerable "other things" we live with worst than this.

But that doesn't make an tasty headline for the six o'clock news. Fat man dies of cancer isn't as good as young girl dies with covid.

I just don't get why you seem to lap it up. After 19 pages of this thread and umpteen pages of multiple other threads I find it hard to understand how you seem to always accept "the official line", when the "official line" is so inconsistent, so hypocritical and so inept.


Look, the notion it would go away and then "be over" was a dumb notion some dumb New Zealander called Jacinta Dumb had. Then everyone else inexplicably jumped on the bandwagon thinking they could stop it bolting before they closed the border gates (may have mixed my metaphors there).

But the only idea they had for making it "over" was "hey, if we bury our heads in the sand and do nothing except make everyone else bury their heads in a mask it will go away", which was then amplified by the media into "don't panic Mr Mannering Sir, we're all gonna die unless we stay home and die..."

The vaccine was never going to, and never will, "make it over" no matter how many booster shots of the same **** you have. Wearing a mask and telling the government where you have been won't make it "over". State leader W calling state leader V useless won't make it "over".

You know what FN - and this might come as a sudden realization to you - the time that you will consider it essentially "over" is when you catch it and .. then you just carry on. The people least worried about covid are the people who have had covid. Go figure that one.


So in answer to your question muse of how the world got over the last time ... wow, they just lived with it they best they could. Yep, sometimes they built new water systems. sometimes they built new sewerage systems. Sometimes they carried oranges in the ships. But they carried on.


Anyways - yeah right today's headlines and political-media storm - Rapid Antigen Tests. Yep, they will be the solution. If we only all test ourselves three times a day we can make this thing "over". The whole problem with covid is that nobody can get a RAT at Priceline. Lock the borders down until Priceline has RATS. You smoking on that fable yet FN ??

I think its easy right now to say 'it's over, we have to live with it' when its a pretty benign variant. Hopefully Omicron does provide some protection to other variants, and maybe that way we do get natural immunity to it, i.e. enough to make it similar to the common flu. Maybe that is the answer... if most people get it, or are already vaccinated.

I don't think we could have had the same response to Delta.

This whole time, "we" i.e. everyone, has been feeling their way through it. We haven't seen this before in modern times, so its understandable that people make mistakes, under-reactions, over-reactions, and anything else.

I worry when people think that the people in charge are deliberately making decisions that are wrong. Even when our government make mistakes, I may not like it, but I understand that this is the first time they have had to deal with this. Is there really an 'official line' or just various people making their best guesses? I would say they are just making the best guesses they can.


'

You're making it sound like there's a choice, there is no choice. "we just have to live with it" is the only path we're on now, better or worse.

Select to expand quote

psychojoe said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Carantoc. The banter used to be fun, but now you just seem angry. Has Macro stopped returning your emails?

Sorry dude.

But you got all serious and chicken little with stuff like :

FormulaNova said..
Well, "it's over" could be the case, unless there happens to be another strain that s just as contagious (well, it doesn't even need to be) as Omicron, but more deadly. Then we are back at square one again.

I am worried that people will jump on the 'it's over bandwagon' and then 3 months later another variant arrives.

Can you guarantee that a new variant doesn't spring up that is more deadly than Omicron? Of course you can't. Which makes me wonder how the world got out of it last time with next to no intervention.

Of course there will be something else. Of course it isn't "over". It is never over. "It" will never be "over". Since the evolution of humans it has been a constant theme of never being over.

And that's the whole point from day one of this. It isn't about it being "over". We have to live with it. Live with it the best we can. Along with all the other things we have to live with. Which, as people keep trying to point out, there are innumerable "other things" we live with worst than this.

But that doesn't make an tasty headline for the six o'clock news. Fat man dies of cancer isn't as good as young girl dies with covid.

I just don't get why you seem to lap it up. After 19 pages of this thread and umpteen pages of multiple other threads I find it hard to understand how you seem to always accept "the official line", when the "official line" is so inconsistent, so hypocritical and so inept.


Look, the notion it would go away and then "be over" was a dumb notion some dumb New Zealander called Jacinta Dumb had. Then everyone else inexplicably jumped on the bandwagon thinking they could stop it bolting before they closed the border gates (may have mixed my metaphors there).

But the only idea they had for making it "over" was "hey, if we bury our heads in the sand and do nothing except make everyone else bury their heads in a mask it will go away", which was then amplified by the media into "don't panic Mr Mannering Sir, we're all gonna die unless we stay home and die..."

The vaccine was never going to, and never will, "make it over" no matter how many booster shots of the same **** you have. Wearing a mask and telling the government where you have been won't make it "over". State leader W calling state leader V useless won't make it "over".

You know what FN - and this might come as a sudden realization to you - the time that you will consider it essentially "over" is when you catch it and .. then you just carry on. The people least worried about covid are the people who have had covid. Go figure that one.


So in answer to your question muse of how the world got over the last time ... wow, they just lived with it they best they could. Yep, sometimes they built new water systems. sometimes they built new sewerage systems. Sometimes they carried oranges in the ships. But they carried on.


Anyways - yeah right today's headlines and political-media storm - Rapid Antigen Tests. Yep, they will be the solution. If we only all test ourselves three times a day we can make this thing "over". The whole problem with covid is that nobody can get a RAT at Priceline. Lock the borders down until Priceline has RATS. You smoking on that fable yet FN ??

I've nothing to add.
I just didn't feel that one green thumb was enough.
Your comment, Carantoc, was a really refreshing read.

I concur 100%.
Best Covid related post in this last 2 yrs.

Just waiting the media move to the next headlines grabbing topic :
- climate blah blah
- Trumpf orange wig
- refugees, real estate shortage, etc etc.

I read somewhere today Med Doctors in WA are finishing their shifts "Crying" FFS...!!!

Covid is the least of our Medical related worries I am afraid.

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Subsonic said..

FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Carantoc. The banter used to be fun, but now you just seem angry. Has Macro stopped returning your emails?

Sorry dude.

But you got all serious and chicken little with stuff like :

FormulaNova said..
Well, "it's over" could be the case, unless there happens to be another strain that s just as contagious (well, it doesn't even need to be) as Omicron, but more deadly. Then we are back at square one again.

I am worried that people will jump on the 'it's over bandwagon' and then 3 months later another variant arrives.

Can you guarantee that a new variant doesn't spring up that is more deadly than Omicron? Of course you can't. Which makes me wonder how the world got out of it last time with next to no intervention.

Of course there will be something else. Of course it isn't "over". It is never over. "It" will never be "over". Since the evolution of humans it has been a constant theme of never being over.

And that's the whole point from day one of this. It isn't about it being "over". We have to live with it. Live with it the best we can. Along with all the other things we have to live with. Which, as people keep trying to point out, there are innumerable "other things" we live with worst than this.

But that doesn't make an tasty headline for the six o'clock news. Fat man dies of cancer isn't as good as young girl dies with covid.

I just don't get why you seem to lap it up. After 19 pages of this thread and umpteen pages of multiple other threads I find it hard to understand how you seem to always accept "the official line", when the "official line" is so inconsistent, so hypocritical and so inept.


Look, the notion it would go away and then "be over" was a dumb notion some dumb New Zealander called Jacinta Dumb had. Then everyone else inexplicably jumped on the bandwagon thinking they could stop it bolting before they closed the border gates (may have mixed my metaphors there).

But the only idea they had for making it "over" was "hey, if we bury our heads in the sand and do nothing except make everyone else bury their heads in a mask it will go away", which was then amplified by the media into "don't panic Mr Mannering Sir, we're all gonna die unless we stay home and die..."

The vaccine was never going to, and never will, "make it over" no matter how many booster shots of the same **** you have. Wearing a mask and telling the government where you have been won't make it "over". State leader W calling state leader V useless won't make it "over".

You know what FN - and this might come as a sudden realization to you - the time that you will consider it essentially "over" is when you catch it and .. then you just carry on. The people least worried about covid are the people who have had covid. Go figure that one.


So in answer to your question muse of how the world got over the last time ... wow, they just lived with it they best they could. Yep, sometimes they built new water systems. sometimes they built new sewerage systems. Sometimes they carried oranges in the ships. But they carried on.


Anyways - yeah right today's headlines and political-media storm - Rapid Antigen Tests. Yep, they will be the solution. If we only all test ourselves three times a day we can make this thing "over". The whole problem with covid is that nobody can get a RAT at Priceline. Lock the borders down until Priceline has RATS. You smoking on that fable yet FN ??

I think its easy right now to say 'it's over, we have to live with it' when its a pretty benign variant. Hopefully Omicron does provide some protection to other variants, and maybe that way we do get natural immunity to it, i.e. enough to make it similar to the common flu. Maybe that is the answer... if most people get it, or are already vaccinated.

I don't think we could have had the same response to Delta.

This whole time, "we" i.e. everyone, has been feeling their way through it. We haven't seen this before in modern times, so its understandable that people make mistakes, under-reactions, over-reactions, and anything else.

I worry when people think that the people in charge are deliberately making decisions that are wrong. Even when our government make mistakes, I may not like it, but I understand that this is the first time they have had to deal with this. Is there really an 'official line' or just various people making their best guesses? I would say they are just making the best guesses they can.


'

You're making it sound like there's a choice, there is no choice. "we just have to live with it" is the only path we're on now, better or worse.

Yeah, nah. Despite everyone (me included) wanting it to be over, we don't know what the next 6 months holds. We could have a benign variant that gives us all a degree of protection and all subsequent variants are close enough that we all get off with something similar to the current flu. Or we could find a variant that is extremely devastating and takes out a lot of people.

We don't know. I am not making this happen. I am looking at possible outcomes.

Its easy for some people to sit back and say that some of these Premiers have done poor jobs, but whether you wanted the borders open or closed, they protected the people that they govern.

I have been listening to people in WA from day one saying that the borders should be opened, yet the economy here has been running well for most of that time and for most people its normal. I understand for some people that is a problem, but only a fool would have opened up straight away and ignored the negatives. It's a cheap shot to take aim at any of them now and criticise the way they handled it. Especially when there was no negative scenario that you had to deal with.

Novax Djokovic getting deported on Thursday.
People around the World must think Aussies are nuts now that the Covid horse has bolted locally. This makes us look dumb.