So, I'm ready to buy my first wing foil board.
I've been winging on my wind foil board to date 114 litres x 178 (5'8") x 66 - Good for learning but too long for dedicated winging (difficult to pump and I find the nose too long).
I'm 75kg and am looking to buy a 85-95L board. I'm liking the looks of the JP X-winger which is 5' long and 95l and the Cabrinha Macro also looks good . although the 5' board is only 78l.
Only thing .. There are no board reviews on either board or any other options (which there seem to be plenty of, even if most are out of stock). I trust JP boards as I've used their windsurfing boards for years and they have always been good.
So, over to you guys, what have you got/tried and what can you recommend in the 80-100L range that is short (less swing weight for carving).
Is there really much difference between these boards or is it all marketing BS?
Hey AB, I have a JP X-Winger 95lt. Great board, really love it. I am 95kg and it's great for me from 10-12knts upwards. Early release from the water is a bonus in the lighter winds. Great in the waves due to its short length, and low swing weight. Another big bonus is the long foil box, which will accommodate a lot of different foil brands and sizes. I also has a heap of options available for footstrap mounting.
I went through the same board search and wound up with the 90 Liter Appletree. Heres some info I aggregated in the process that might be helpful to you.
Length / Width / Thickness / Volume / Weight (inches / lbs)
JP - 60 / 27 / 4.8 / 95 / 14.4
One - 60 / 26 / TBD / 90 / 12.3 carbon, 13.9 PVC
Indiana - 61 / 26.8 / 4.7 / 88 / 14.3
Takoon - 58 / 26.2 / 4.7 / 85 / 12.3
Appletree - 62 / 24.7 / 5.4 / 90 / 13.4
I went from 105l f one to a 95l fanatic 2022. I could have gone smaller but I need this board to be able to slog in chop. Maybe 85L would have been doable. I'm 77kg. I'm guessing I'll always have a board this size unless I move somewhere windier.
I mostly upgraded for two reason, footstraps (which pretty much every board has) and no tail kick. Your only option for the latter is the fanatic board, a custom board, or the new axis boards (not released yet). If you ride high aspect I would go no tail kick. I can feel the difference when I get to almost-foiling speeds the tail is not dragging anymore. There is no benefit, in my mind, to a tail kick and I don't think you will find them on any boards in a year.
All of the above mentioned boards have a tail kick.
Depending on your location, you might be able to have a custom one made exactly the way you like, that is lighter and cost about the same as a production board.
Thanks for the feedback.
I had heard that boards were all going flat. I assume that helps increase speed for takeoff with HA foils.
The JP' look very flat and as Nik pointed out those long tracks are a bonus for lots of foil positions. 
The new fanatics look good, interesting to note the 5' is flat but the 4'7" has a tail kicker
I haven't spent enough time on a smaller board to know what to specify in a custom board design. Maybe this thread might provide me with the pointers.
Your profile says WA - if in Perth try and demo what you can to see what you like and if the foil boxes/foot straps are in suitable positions. SUSS, surfland and kiteaddiction have all been really easy to demo stuff for me.
Im 80kg and bought the 80L Smik. After being on 115L for 6 months I spent 3 sessions getting used to the smaller board, but easily the most enjoyable upgrade once you adapt. All the fun is in riding the foil, not the board.
Select to expand quoteDTee said..
Your profile says WA - if in Perth try and demo what you can to see what you like and if the foil boxes/foot straps are in suitable positions. SUSS, surfland and kiteaddiction have all been really easy to demo stuff for me.
Im 80kg and bought the 80L Smik. After being on 115L for 6 months I spent 3 sessions getting used to the smaller board, but easily the most enjoyable upgrade once you adapt. All the fun is in riding the foil, not the board.
Yes, I'm in WA. I'll take your suggestion and see what demos are available.
How have you found the 80L board for your weight?
I'm 75kg and was wondering whether to go for a 90ish litre board or bite the bullet and go close to my weight. I'd rather just buy 1 new board rather than a 90ish board and then, a month or 2 later, wish I'd gone smaller. I'll be winging on the ocean so stability in chop is the only reason I'd go for more litres (if in fact this is a help or a hinderance).
Select to expand quotergmacca said..
Interested in to here reviews of JP x winger, any 5'5 users out there . cheers.
I had a look at them and they look quite interesting. They get volume by adding it to the depth.
And then asked for the price (on the super duper light version) .....
I have not tried the specific boards you're speaking of, but some general advice is to remember to take the box & strap position (and their relative position to eachother) into account and not only dimensions and volume!
For example, Fanatic has the boxes & straps relatively far to the back and the boxes quite far back relative to the strap positions, which means it will work with better with specific foils (I think Fanatic and Axis are examples of those), but less well with others (Armstrong). And due to the entire setup in general being far back (relatively long nose) will feel bigger than some other boards which could be in the dimensions larger but have a more centered stance (like the AK or Armstrong), which reduces the effect of swing weight.
Key point made below - the board is just a foil delivery system. I am 70kg and on a 6"8 JP Foil board 98L and upgraded from JP 8"10 SUP foil of 130L. Shorter length is easier to manage and the 30L drop in volume took about 2 days to get used to.
width of board is also something to consider. My new JP is 26" wide and it's narrower and easier to manage in waves than these wider flat slabs
Select to expand quoteAB_Carve said..DTee said..
Your profile says WA - if in Perth try and demo what you can to see what you like and if the foil boxes/foot straps are in suitable positions. SUSS, surfland and kiteaddiction have all been really easy to demo stuff for me.
Im 80kg and bought the 80L Smik. After being on 115L for 6 months I spent 3 sessions getting used to the smaller board, but easily the most enjoyable upgrade once you adapt. All the fun is in riding the foil, not the board.
Yes, I'm in WA. I'll take your suggestion and see what demos are available.
How have you found the 80L board for your weight?
I'm 75kg and was wondering whether to go for a 90ish litre board or bite the bullet and go close to my weight. I'd rather just buy 1 new board rather than a 90ish board and then, a month or 2 later, wish I'd gone smaller. I'll be winging on the ocean so stability in chop is the only reason I'd go for more litres (if in fact this is a help or a hinderance).
I'm finding the 80kg/80L board perfect for where I am progression wise. I borrowed a friends 75L Froth for 2 sessions, which gave me the confidence I needed to step down from 115L to body weight. See quite a few very good riders ony 75-80kg boards, which I'm guessing is body weight or slightly below for most. Only had the new board 1 month but still look forward to every session as it has made initiating and carrying speed through gybes so much easier.
The downside is getting started is harder, however once you are on foil, everything is faster and more fun. If you are at the point where you are comfortable gybing, you might only need to get up once, and spend the whole session on foil. However if you are still falling every few minutes, I wouldn't recommend the small board yet.
I tried a several boards and still think the AK5.8x90l is a gem.
Its very quick up to plane, very light and build well.
Hey AB_Carve. I'm a bit heavier than you at 85kg. Now using a 5'x75L for anything over 10knots on 5m wing. I've windsurfed my whole life and jumped into winging as soon as the Naish V1 was available. I've used bigger and smaller boards. I like 75L for Perth. My board is less than 6kg, so feels very small underfoot. Plenty of good board choices, make sure they match your foil regarding required box placement. Personally I don't like a board much over 26" wide or less than 5foot. Demo demo demo. Should be a few crew at Port Beach this Sunday. You are welcome to take my board for a quick run if you see me. Cheers Pete.
a few boards I like. PPC soar 82L
Sunova Casey aviator (my current board, below)
Sunova WingFoil
Cabrina Macro
Fanatic (2022)
Smik
Kalama E3
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
I have not tried the specific boards you're speaking of, but some general advice is to remember to take the box & strap position (and their relative position to eachother) into account and not only dimensions and volume!
For example, Fanatic has the boxes & straps relatively far to the back and the boxes quite far back relative to the strap positions, which means it will work with better with specific foils (I think Fanatic and Axis are examples of those), but less well with others (Armstrong). And due to the entire setup in general being far back (relatively long nose) will feel bigger than some other boards which could be in the dimensions larger but have a more centered stance (like the AK or Armstrong), which reduces the effect of swing weight.
I think this is the best advise of all! I'm on Axis and using the Macro...and boxes is very far back and straps quite fwd. So If you want to use straps, you cannot use the PNG with the Macro, but you can use the HPS for example. I think I cannot use the Quatro, the box is too fwd.That might be related also to how I ride, how much I weight and stance etc...I like narrow stance. So what foil are you going to use is a crucial question and for your information I love the macro..i tested the 98 and I bought the 78...with the HPS it's a very good combo.(I,m 75kg and an good windsurfer...so I was used to stand on 70-75L board.
Select to expand quotebaldy123 said..
Hey AB_Carve. I'm a bit heavier than you at 85kg. Now using a 5'x75L for anything over 10knots on 5m wing. I've windsurfed my whole life and jumped into winging as soon as the Naish V1 was available. I've used bigger and smaller boards. I like 75L for Perth. My board is less than 6kg, so feels very small underfoot. Plenty of good board choices, make sure they match your foil regarding required box placement. Personally I don't like a board much over 26" wide or less than 5foot. Demo demo demo. Should be a few crew at Port Beach this Sunday. You are welcome to take my board for a quick run if you see me. Cheers Pete.
a few boards I like. PPC soar 82L
Sunova Casey aviator (my current board, below)
Sunova WingFoil
Cabrina Macro
Fanatic (2022)
Smik
Kalama E3
Thanks everyone for the constructive input and in your case Pete, the kind offer.
I've just moved over from SS HG to the SS Phantasm gear (730 & 926). Not many Km under the new gear yet. So it'll have to be a board compatible with that foil - not sure which do and don't work.
Foil placement In the track was one of the main reasons I was considering the JP as it has a long track so should accommodate a variety of foil placements. Although I note there are no marking on the JP foil tracks to allow you to measure and repeat the foil placement - the Fanatic does have them. They are really useful on my SS Wizard. Simple stuff that makes a difference.
I like to ride with a narrow stance. For years I've never liked the wide stances that windsurf and snowboard straps/bindings put you in. At least on the windfoil with just front strap I can finally ride the way I want to, with a narrow stance and just pressure the front strap.
I can trade in some windsurfing gear at WSP so Cabrinha, Naish and JP are easier options as WSP stock them. I'm away on holiday at the moment (without gear - urghh) so trying to narrow choices for when I get back.
Cabrinha also do the Code. A squarer design and longer 12 inch box.
78 or 88Litre. Another option to throw in the mix.
if you are using the windfoil phantasm then you probably want the track box at the back. The pedestal mount is massive on the slingshot so longer boxes are a must have IMO.
I have the Phantasm short fuse so mast position shouldn't be too far back. I have the aluminium mast not the $1800 (wing board cost) carbon one so it's a normal plate size.
Ah, so the Code is the new Macro.
Select to expand quoteAB_Carve said..
I'm 75kg and was wondering whether to go for a 90ish litre board or bite the bullet and go close to my weight. I'd rather just buy 1 new board rather than a 90ish board and then, a month or 2 later, wish I'd gone smaller. I'll be winging on the ocean so stability in chop is the only reason I'd go for more litres (if in fact this is a help or a hinderance).
You will probably want a smaller board soonish if you go for 90.
I am 75kg and started on a 106L 6.3 for about 15 sessions, went to a 95L sky wing 5.4 for another 50 sessions and onto a Takuma TK65 (5.2x23.5/65L @5.1kg) which will be my keeper. No prior wind/water experience other than SUP.
Board width/ volume /stability is a very contentious topic, but I found the last board to be the least scary in chop as I can keep it under water. As soon as there is some pull in the wing the board comes to the surface and takeoff is just as easy as the 95L sky wing I had before. It is also fantastic for swimming so when the wind drops I have no issues getting back. I don't really slog back as I don't have the patience for that.
As mentioned the sky wing has the boxes far back. That adds unnecessary swing to it and makes it a borderline board for some foils (e.g. kujira)
The Armstrong FG boards are another option and they have a 75L I think ... I prefer having a board with as little weight as possible at the nose with boxes that allow me to stand far forward. My 5.2 takuma "feels" much shorter than the 5.0 sky wing that way...
Out of interest this is a relatively unscientific comparison of the mast track positions and length on a few of the wing boards. The Armstrong's (not shown) are even further forward.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..
Interested in to here reviews of JP x winger, any 5'5 users out there . cheers.
I have a 5"5 105 litres JP X-Winger. I am 95kgs and I am still a novice. The board comes up on foil well and when it hits the water it recovers very well. I am using a 1550 V2 Armstrong front wing and a 232 tail. JP boards are always finished off well and normally have a good glass job.
Quick update on boards I've demo'd
Fanatic Skywing 95L 5'4 x 26 (2021 board with flat bottom)
Liked: Popped up super easy onto the foil. Stable feeling, the parallel rails seemed to let it accelerate quickly and it carved really nicely. I liked it.
Didn't like: Raised sides on the deck are shin smashers - I think this is less of on issue on the 2022 boards. Seemed a little long a 5'4
JP X Winger 105 5'5 x 26
Liked: Very stable, liked the boxy shape. Super corky and popped out out the water really easily even in light wind.
Didn't like: A bit too big and too much buoyancy for my 75kg, so maybe try a smaller one ..
JP X Winger 75L 4'5 x 26
Liked: Really compact .. more on that later.
Didn't like: Waaaaay too short! So corky it wanted to get out from underneath me in every direction. Not the one. No measurements on the board tracks. Unfortunately they don't have a 95L to try. I'm definitely thinking 5'2 might be the right length.
Starboard Lite Tech 22 90L x 5'2 x 27.5
Liked: Well constructed board. Measurements on mast track. Stable and carved well.
Didn't like: I found the slightly curved sides seemed to make getting up on foil a bit more difficult than the fanatic. Seemed noticeably wider in the guts at 27.5 so not sure on the shape.
Definitely appreciate the advice to try boards before you buy.
I have penciled in my name on a Cabrinha Code 78L 5' x 25 (new stock coming in) but based on the above test I think the 88L 5'2 x 26.2 may be the better option but I don't think they have any stock coming in of that board.
the search continuous ...
Select to expand quoteDTee said..AB_Carve said..DTee said..
Your profile says WA - if in Perth try and demo what you can to see what you like and if the foil boxes/foot straps are in suitable positions. SUSS, surfland and kiteaddiction have all been really easy to demo stuff for me.
Im 80kg and bought the 80L Smik. After being on 115L for 6 months I spent 3 sessions getting used to the smaller board, but easily the most enjoyable upgrade once you adapt. All the fun is in riding the foil, not the board.
Yes, I'm in WA. I'll take your suggestion and see what demos are available.
How have you found the 80L board for your weight?
I'm 75kg and was wondering whether to go for a 90ish litre board or bite the bullet and go close to my weight. I'd rather just buy 1 new board rather than a 90ish board and then, a month or 2 later, wish I'd gone smaller. I'll be winging on the ocean so stability in chop is the only reason I'd go for more litres (if in fact this is a help or a hinderance).
I'm finding the 80kg/80L board perfect for where I am progression wise. I borrowed a friends 75L Froth for 2 sessions, which gave me the confidence I needed to step down from 115L to body weight. See quite a few very good riders ony 75-80kg boards, which I'm guessing is body weight or slightly below for most. Only had the new board 1 month but still look forward to every session as it has made initiating and carrying speed through gybes so much easier.
The downside is getting started is harder, however once you are on foil, everything is faster and more fun. If you are at the point where you are comfortable gybing, you might only need to get up once, and spend the whole session on foil. However if you are still falling every few minutes, I wouldn't recommend the small board yet.
I found that either below body weight by 5-10L or over by the same amount makes starts easier than right at neural buoyancy, especially in rough chop. Being right at the surface on a board that floats me right at the surface made it frustrating. If less than body weight, I can submerge and there is stability, or if the board is floaty enough, things are stable again (for me at 65 kg, a 75-80L seems about right for a floaty board.I'd probably just have the one board now if I had started in this range so I have a board that feels right in a large wind range)
If you dont want to change boards in 6 months then get something in the range of your body weight. 70-75 l. You can already ride so time to ditch the training wheels and commit. A million people have said this before on other threads so believe them. You just dont need all that volume. It all equals weight. You will struggle for a very small while as you get used to it but then you are away. At same weight as you my daily driver is 60l and I ride that from as light as I can go. Learn the stinkbug start and the volume becomes even less relevant. Honestly you will regret a 90l board very soon.
I just sold a 65l board to a guy who has been riding an 80l board. He about 78kg. At 65l he was worried about the volume drop but I said to him I predict you will sell the 80l as soon as you ride the 65 and realise it does not affect your low end. Sure enough his 80l was for sale a couple of weeks later. The learning curve is fast for this sport.
Select to expand quoteSlyde said..
If you dont want to change boards in 6 months then get something in the range of your body weight. 70-75 l. You can already ride so time to ditch the training wheels and commit. A million people have said this before on other threads so believe them. You just dont need all that volume. It all equals weight. You will struggle for a very small while as you get used to it but then you are away. At same weight as you my daily driver is 60l and I ride that from as light as I can go. Learn the stinkbug start and the volume becomes even less relevant. Honestly you will regret a 90l board very soon.
I just sold a 65l board to a guy who has been riding an 80l board. He about 78kg. At 65l he was worried about the volume drop but I said to him I predict you will sell the 80l as soon as you ride the 65 and realise it does not affect your low end. Sure enough his 80l was for sale a couple of weeks later. The learning curve is fast for this sport.
Appreciate the feedback.
I think the 78L Code should do the job. Its very interesting where each of the boards distribute the litres. The 75 litres in the super short JP made it too unstable for me. I think a 5ft long board would be minimum length with 75L being the right buoyancy.
I'd be interested in your experience of smaller litre boards, where did they remove the buoyancy, length, width and depth, was it all in equal measure. That's where the JP was weird, all of their boards are the same width at 26 but they reduced length by 5 inches per 10 litres which made the 75 super short compared to any other make.
Select to expand quoteAB_Carve said..Slyde said..
If you dont want to change boards in 6 months then get something in the range of your body weight. 70-75 l. You can already ride so time to ditch the training wheels and commit. A million people have said this before on other threads so believe them. You just dont need all that volume. It all equals weight. You will struggle for a very small while as you get used to it but then you are away. At same weight as you my daily driver is 60l and I ride that from as light as I can go. Learn the stinkbug start and the volume becomes even less relevant. Honestly you will regret a 90l board very soon.
I just sold a 65l board to a guy who has been riding an 80l board. He about 78kg. At 65l he was worried about the volume drop but I said to him I predict you will sell the 80l as soon as you ride the 65 and realise it does not affect your low end. Sure enough his 80l was for sale a couple of weeks later. The learning curve is fast for this sport.
Appreciate the feedback.
I think the 78L Code should do the job. Its very interesting where each of the boards distribute the litres. The 75 litres in the super short JP made it too unstable for me. I think a 5ft long board would be minimum length with 75L being the right buoyancy.
I'd be interested in your experience of smaller litre boards, where did they remove the buoyancy, length, width and depth, was it all in equal measure. That's where the JP was weird, all of their boards are the same width at 26 but they reduced length by 5 inches per 10 litres which made the 75 super short compared to any other make.
My boards are my own builds. That way I can stay ahead of the design curve. Alot of the commercial boards are quite out of date by production time. But from what I see there are some good options coming out from Axis/PPC etc. The Gofoil boards look well designed too. If a board is not balanced for its volume it is not designed well. Personally I dont like my boards so wide. My 60l (maybe 58) is 22inches wide x 4'10". F-One seem to share this philosophy as their boards are a bit narrower. That way I dont need much edge bevel. Wide boards tend to hit the water when you carve hard. As you get better you worry less about stability on the water and takeoff and get more interested in how they behave in the air. Basically you can pump just about anything off the water with a little effort but boards that hit the waves with their edges or a nose or tail that is too wide, and ride nose down, are a pain.
You should be set with the 78l code. Go hard!!
Select to expand quotebaldy123 said..
Hey AB_Carve. I'm a bit heavier than you at 85kg. Now using a 5'x75L for anything over 10knots on 5m wing. I've windsurfed my whole life and jumped into winging as soon as the Naish V1 was available. I've used bigger and smaller boards. I like 75L for Perth. My board is less than 6kg, so feels very small underfoot. Plenty of good board choices, make sure they match your foil regarding required box placement. Personally I don't like a board much over 26" wide or less than 5foot. Demo demo demo. Should be a few crew at Port Beach this Sunday. You are welcome to take my board for a quick run if you see me. Cheers Pete.
a few boards I like. PPC soar 82L
Sunova Casey aviator (my current board, below)
Sunova WingFoil
Cabrina Macro
Fanatic (2022)
Smik
Kalama E3
Tried the Sunova Casey 84L today and I think that's the board for me. I like the shape, similar to the Fanatic but lighter (than the stock one) with slightly less angled rails. I prefer the flat bottom but more surfy shape of the Sunova compared to than the more boxy boards. All personal preference at the end of the day. Great to have so many choices!
The final choice is between the 84L 5'5 or the 75L 5'.
Great advice from everyone to try before you buy. I can't believe how different these boards all were, especially given they spend a lot of time in the air!
Select to expand quoteSlyde said..
If you dont want to change boards in 6 months then get something in the range of your body weight. 70-75 l. You can already ride so time to ditch the training wheels and commit. A million people have said this before on other threads so believe them. You just dont need all that volume. It all equals weight. You will struggle for a very small while as you get used to it but then you are away. At same weight as you my daily driver is 60l and I ride that from as light as I can go. Learn the stinkbug start and the volume becomes even less relevant. Honestly you will regret a 90l board very soon.
I just sold a 65l board to a guy who has been riding an 80l board. He about 78kg. At 65l he was worried about the volume drop but I said to him I predict you will sell the 80l as soon as you ride the 65 and realise it does not affect your low end. Sure enough his 80l was for sale a couple of weeks later. The learning curve is fast for this sport.
Totally agree. I'm bashing around on a 39L now at 75kg, using wing sizes same as everyone else on big as floaters. So a board at your body weight (and I also agree 22/23 inch if you can as wide boards suck major wang) would be just fine. Recon you could go a 60L easily. Within two / three sessions using the stink bud you'll be cranking.
