Wing foiling videos

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Fitzsup said..

Campbell said..
Good for the second hand punters and bad for the beginners who paid full retail after listening to the dealers hype about their product.

Don't see the big deal,there is always new products coming to the market.

Winging being new,innovation,means new products will evolve bigger better

I personally support people who have the guts and initiative to own and run a business.With the Internet and eBay it takes courage to do it.

Also there are a few guys on this forum that own business and push their own product.Also other guys that are paid to promote certain products. It gives the punter a raft of information so as to make an informed choice as to what best suits them

But they also are free with their time to post videos ,give support.

Just be happy with what you own,learn on that,then trade,sell or keep and then buy the new gear.

This has nothing to do with a poster owning their own business. This has to do with putting unbias information about products on a public forum.
That's why as a beginner, I have tried and my friends have tried, lots of different wings. When all come back with the same conclusions on the different wings. Then a expert tells you, look at me I can do it. So harden up and do your dues as my product is as good as anything on the market.
The aim of a beginner/Intermediate is to have fun and progress using the correct and best equipment they can afford.
People come onto this forum to learn and try and make decisions based on the information posted.
Once I brought the correct equipment, after expensive trial and error, my progression moved forward so much quicker.
I don't want other beginners to waste money and time on bias information posted.
That's my rant for the day.

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Campbell said..

Fitzsup said..

Campbell said..
Good for the second hand punters and bad for the beginners who paid full retail after listening to the dealers hype about their product.

Don't see the big deal,there is always new products coming to the market.

Winging being new,innovation,means new products will evolve bigger better

I personally support people who have the guts and initiative to own and run a business.With the Internet and eBay it takes courage to do it.

Also there are a few guys on this forum that own business and push their own product.Also other guys that are paid to promote certain products. It gives the punter a raft of information so as to make an informed choice as to what best suits them

But they also are free with their time to post videos ,give support.

Just be happy with what you own,learn on that,then trade,sell or keep and then buy the new gear.

This has nothing to do with a poster owning their own business. This has to do with putting unbias information about products on a public forum.
That's why as a beginner, I have tried and my friends have tried, lots of different wings. When all come back with the same conclusions on the different wings. Then a expert tells you, look at me I can do it. So harden up and do your dues as my product is as good as anything on the market.
The aim of a beginner/Intermediate is to have fun and progress using the correct and best equipment they can afford.
People come onto this forum to learn and try and make decisions based on the information posted.
Once I brought the correct equipment, after expensive trial and error, my progression moved forward so much quicker.
I don't want other beginners to waste money and time on bias information posted.
That's my rant for the day.

This forum would fade into oblivion if it wasn't for sponsors,they push a product but it's up to you to decide if that product suit you.

This forum supply's a bucket load of choice,be it from mugs like me that have had success with a brand or businesses.

As said the choice is yours.

6 will be a biggun. 50% larger. I have a 5m Wasp that is my go to and can get going in very light wind at 105kg with a 2400 foil. A 4m would do most people <85kg as a single wing quiver.

Naish rushed out the 4m to get early sales, good strategy. But they were a bit unclear whether you needed bigger wings which was a little suss. They all did it, the Duotone has a few issues and the Sling wing is unpopular. The 5m Wasp is an improved build over the 4m Wasp with a few extra reinforcements and a tighter "feel" (leech"?). Lots more out there now with F1, Smik soon and others. Lots of choice if you don't like Naish.

Learned a lot from JB he is prepared to put himself out there.

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johndg said..
Keep the posts coming JB. I have an Armstrong foil setup and consequently watched the Ozone wing ding video where they talked wingding sizes. What I remember from the video is that water is much more dense than air so it is more critical to have a range of foils than wingdings.
I am only still on L plates but as soon as the wind is getting into the 13 - 15 knot range I am away on the 2400 foil. 18 knots plus on the 1550 etc...

In my case at 80kgs a 4m wing is sufficient for Perth winds. If I had 2 then a 3m and 5m makes sense but is it overkill.

I am getting the hang on foiling and the Armstrong is very controllable compared to my previous GoFoil. I would like to nail gybes then tacks. Nearly making it around, get the wing around but come off the foil. Any hints are appreciated. I am guessing that more aggression or forcing wing in the turn may help.

Keep pumping downwind on a bump to give yourself time to get everything around. I always drop off the foil to swap feet which is lame I know. Hope to get better.

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Campbell said..
Good for the second hand punters and bad for the beginners who paid full retail after listening to the dealers hype about their product.

Hey Campbell.

You have a very interesting angle on "hype". In history it is easy to look back and say "that 1920's model you sold be before is crap because the the new 2020 model is so much better". Yes, every year the big brands poor hours of R&D and $$$ into development with the aim to better their product to better suit the market and advance performance. Sometimes (especially in a brand new sport) the "market" is not yet defined and what the consumer wants vs what the producer feels is best may not perfectly align at first.

So, let's try relate this to the Wing-Surfer.
This product was finalised in April of last year. One of the first onto the actual market place. The concept was an affordable, light-weight addition to your quiver that is fun and easy to use with a one size to cover all (or as much as possible) philosophy. And to be honest, it worked. With practice, the product ticked every box.

The Market.
The Wing-Surfer was accepted extremely well and popularity boomed quickly. Many brands jumped onto designs as fast as they could. Taking on existing feedback from the consumer and fast tracking production and R&D hours by "borrowing" concepts and flooding the market with the multi-sized options for Wing Surfing. Don't get me wrong here, this is possibly a good direction given the growth and the size of the market. If you where one of the first guys in, would you have invested tens of thousands of dollars on the sport becoming as big as it has before it actually did? Naish generally is one of the first in with nearly every sport we play with. They innovate, and produce quality products from the ground up without anyone to copy.

The real skill behind all sports.
Often the longer road is the better for long term skill set. My reference to "instant gratification" was based on the fact that more and more often now people do not wish to spend the time required to perfect the necessary skills to do a sport (look at Windsurfing's demise). And the reference was in direct relation to the fact that the MKi Wing-Surfer can be ridden and by a real sized human in less than the stated 20-25kn. I know I can ride in under 10kn and have into the 40's. But people don't see the hundreds and thousands of hours I put into learning the skills to do this. My comment was never actually against the fact of having bigger wings, and as I wrote, I see the 6m wings not as a way of getting up easier in 10-12kn, but a means to foiling in under 8kn - further stretching the boundaries.

Evolution.
There is always going to be evolution. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's a means to an end. In relation to this comment, the MKi Wing-Surfer is still an excellent and always will be. I have never been left wanting when riding against others with other brands or other sizes. If one purchases a product with the thought that it will never be superseded or upgraded than this is unfortunate. Our industries and sports are driven by passionate innovative brands that live the sports always trying to exceed and advance in performance. I you fear the evolution of products, the only real way to protect yourself is not to buy at all and therefore never have your product superseded.

Comparisons on the market.
Without the new Wing-Surfer sizes, the MKi is a competitive wing on the market, even up against all the larger sizes out there. Many bigger wings out there achieved being "BIG", but they are far from being higher performing.

The HYPE.
So in perspective. The Hype is real. From it's launch back in April/May 2019 the Wing-Surfer was the Wing. Even against later launching models/brands the Wing-Surfer had performance above the pack. Even now, in the hands of a practiced Wing'er the Wing-Surfer MKi is in the top mix even despite some brand already having their mkii's out. So IMHO, yes the HYPE was and still is real. Yes the new MKii Wing-Surfer has advancements that have absolutely blown my mind and expectations. Yes the MKi does have an angle on all wings out there with it's usable wind-range. Yes the MKii out performs its predecessor in just about every field as well as outperforming every other wing on the market (big call I know, and based on my personal opinion - JB).

Conclusion.
Yes as someone who works in the industry, we need to sell product to exist (as crazy as that sounds). However you can not survive by pushing product that does not work, or by lying to consumers. At the end of the day I am a rider, I have been Windsurfing, Kiting, Surfing, Foiling etc all my life. But as consumers you also need to be realistic on the actual fact that products will evolve, markets will steer, deviate and determine demand whether necessary or trend orientated. My best word of advice is get on the water, ride, push yourself, learn, evolve, drive to push past your limitations, you'll be surprised what you can surpass if you do not look at things as not possible.

Apologies for the long winded response. I am not sure of your agenda on this thread, but hope you have not felt in anyway lead dishonestly by anyone.

Here's to being extremely excited by the future of Wing-Surfing, and having my mind blown nearly every session (yes, even on the Wing-Surfer MKi).

Ride safe,

JB

Select to expand quote

johndg said..
Keep the posts coming JB. I have an Armstrong foil setup and consequently watched the Ozone wing ding video where they talked wingding sizes. What I remember from the video is that water is much more dense than air so it is more critical to have a range of foils than wingdings.
I am only still on L plates but as soon as the wind is getting into the 13 - 15 knot range I am away on the 2400 foil. 18 knots plus on the 1550 etc...

In my case at 80kgs a 4m wing is sufficient for Perth winds. If I had 2 then a 3m and 5m makes sense but is it overkill.

I am getting the hang on foiling and the Armstrong is very controllable compared to my previous GoFoil. I would like to nail gybes then tacks. Nearly making it around, get the wing around but come off the foil. Any hints are appreciated. I am guessing that more aggression or forcing wing in the turn may help.

Hey Jonhdg,

Thanks buddy. Love sharing the love.

You are 100% right the foil makes a far bigger difference than the Wing. Especially in getting going in light winds. I generally only pump the Wing enough to get flow over my foil, then it's more about the Foil pump.

Jibes and Tacks. The biggest pointer I can give anyone is go into them fast, as fast as you can, then get the wing out of the way. With good speed you can basically glide round with foil speed, or at worst a few foil pumps. Only once you are comfortable should you reech back to your control handle (or boom if you're that way inclined ). Try it with Jibes first, go fast, bare away then let the wing out and free-wing and surf round the jibe like an awesome cutback. If your speed feels low, then pump the foil first before grabbing the wing, only grab the wing back once you're confortable and going in the new direction. Once you get it, they're actually really easy.

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

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Windgenuity said..
for it's time of launch (and comparable now) it kicked(s) ass.

Agree with everything you have said except this. There are definitely equal or better wings out there, Naish 4m is not the best. My opinion of course

A video on tacking and changing feet gybing while staying on the foil, that is less than 3 mins, would be appreciated

Select to expand quote

Windgenuity said..

Campbell said..
Good for the second hand punters and bad for the beginners who paid full retail after listening to the dealers hype about their product.

Hey Campbell.

You have a very interesting angle on "hype". In history it is easy to look back and say "that 1920's model you sold be before is crap because the the new 2020 model is so much better". Yes, every year the big brands poor hours of R&D and $$$ into development with the aim to better their product to better suit the market and advance performance. Sometimes (especially in a brand new sport) the "market" is not yet defined and what the consumer wants vs what the producer feels is best may not perfectly align at first.

So, let's try relate this to the Wing-Surfer.
This product was finalised in April of last year. One of the first onto the actual market place. The concept was an affordable, light-weight addition to your quiver that is fun and easy to use with a one size to cover all (or as much as possible) philosophy. And to be honest, it worked. With practice, the product ticked every box.

The Market.
The Wing-Surfer was accepted extremely well and popularity boomed quickly. Many brands jumped onto designs as fast as they could. Taking on existing feedback from the consumer and fast tracking production and R&D hours by "borrowing" concepts and flooding the market with the multi-sized options for Wing Surfing. Don't get me wrong here, this is possibly a good direction given the growth and the size of the market. If you where one of the first guys in, would you have invested tens of thousands of dollars on the sport becoming as big as it has before it actually did? Naish generally is one of the first in with nearly every sport we play with. They innovate, and produce quality products from the ground up without anyone to copy.

The real skill behind all sports.
Often the longer road is the better for long term skill set. My reference to "instant gratification" was based on the fact that more and more often now people do not wish to spend the time required to perfect the necessary skills to do a sport (look at Windsurfing's demise). And the reference was in direct relation to the fact that the MKi Wing-Surfer can be ridden and by a real sized human in less than the stated 20-25kn. I know I can ride in under 10kn and have into the 40's. But people don't see the hundreds and thousands of hours I put into learning the skills to do this. My comment was never actually against the fact of having bigger wings, and as I wrote, I see the 6m wings not as a way of getting up easier in 10-12kn, but a means to foiling in under 8kn - further stretching the boundaries.

Evolution.
There is always going to be evolution. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it's a means to an end. In relation to this comment, the MKi Wing-Surfer is still an excellent and always will be. I have never been left wanting when riding against others with other brands or other sizes. If one purchases a product with the thought that it will never be superseded or upgraded than this is unfortunate. Our industries and sports are driven by passionate innovative brands that live the sports always trying to exceed and advance in performance. I you fear the evolution of products, the only real way to protect yourself is not to buy at all and therefore never have your product superseded.

Comparisons on the market.
Without the new Wing-Surfer sizes, the MKi is a competitive wing on the market, even up against all the larger sizes out there. Many bigger wings out there achieved being "BIG", but they are far from being higher performing.

The HYPE.
So in perspective. The Hype is real. From it's launch back in April/May 2019 the Wing-Surfer was the Wing. Even against later launching models/brands the Wing-Surfer had performance above the pack. Even now, in the hands of a practiced Wing'er the Wing-Surfer MKi is in the top mix even despite some brand already having their mkii's out. So IMHO, yes the HYPE was and still is real. Yes the new MKii Wing-Surfer has advancements that have absolutely blown my mind and expectations. Yes the MKi does have an angle on all wings out there with it's usable wind-range. Yes the MKii out performs its predecessor in just about every field as well as outperforming every other wing on the market (big call I know, and based on my personal opinion - JB).

Conclusion.
Yes as someone who works in the industry, we need to sell product to exist (as crazy as that sounds). However you can not survive by pushing product that does not work, or by lying to consumers. At the end of the day I am a rider, I have been Windsurfing, Kiting, Surfing, Foiling etc all my life. But as consumers you also need to be realistic on the actual fact that products will evolve, markets will steer, deviate and determine demand whether necessary or trend orientated. My best word of advice is get on the water, ride, push yourself, learn, evolve, drive to push past your limitations, you'll be surprised what you can surpass if you do not look at things as not possible.

Apologies for the long winded response. I am not sure of your agenda on this thread, but hope you have not felt in anyway lead dishonestly by anyone.

Here's to being extremely excited by the future of Wing-Surfing, and having my mind blown nearly every session (yes, even on the Wing-Surfer MKi).

Ride safe,

JB

Hi JB,
My original post was comparing 4m sized wings against each other, Slingshot, Naish, Duatone, F One and Wasp. With the consensus by myself and other people that used these wings, was that the Naish and Slingshot was not as powerful and had not as good performance as the other 3.
These wings were all MK1 and available around the same time. Yes the Naish and Slingshot worked, were well made, but in our opinion did not have as good performance as the other 3.
This was a opinion that I stand by and allot of other people agree with me.
Your response seemed to totally overlook the limitations of the MK1 Naish wing and go into rider technique instead to cover up the limitations.
The new MK2 might address all these issues with the MK1 and be the best on the market.
I am not anti Naish, just giving a personal un bias opinion on what a poster asked for in the Naish V Wasp post.
My agenda was to help beginners with information from another beginner on what wing is best for them. I did not have this information before getting my first wing which cost me money and delayed my progression.
If the new Naish has great performance, that might be my next wing, as I have no association with any one company.

Cheers

Campbell

To summarise and finish this conversation.

My feed back as a beginner is the WASP, F One and Duotone are superior in power and performance to the Naish MK1

JB's feedback is the Naish Mk1 has the same or better power and performance to the WASP, F One and Duotone.

It's up to all you Wing Dingers now to work out what is best for you.

Where can we find info on the new naish wings? I just did a search and couldn't find anything

It was always fairly obvious naish would eventually bring out new sizes. Almost all sailing craft use different size sails for different wind strengths and offering just one size would reduce the number of units sold.

It seems like a lot of brands have had quite a rush to market with these wings but you can't blame them. Watersports are a very fast moving industry and product development is a costly process. Gotta get in on the trends, get the products on the shelves and then refine them as you go.

Its up to the buyer to be aware that when you buy the first generation of a new product you are going to be paying the maximum price for a product that may soon be superseded and probably won't hold much resale value. foils are the best example. Just look on the buy and sell at foils from 2 or 3 years ago being sold for less than 30% of their original RRP. People who got in early on those paid top dollar and are now struggling to offload them but they also got to start early get out shredding on the latest gear, so hey you gotta pay to play!

I am holding off on the wing game for the time being, partly for reasons outlined but mostly because I am busy with work and other water activities

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Campbell said..
To summarise and finish this conversation.

My feed back as a beginner is the WASP, F One and Duotone are superior in power and performance to the Naish MK1

JB's feedback is the Naish Mk1 has the same or better power and performance to the WASP, F One and Duotone.

It's up to all you Wing Dingers now to work out what is best for you.

"JB's feedback is the Naish Mk1 has the same or better power and performance to the WASP, F One and Duotone."

Too funny you still get this out of it all. Anyway. Good chat!

Prepare for some more videos

Here's a quick (short) stitch up of a few tacks, jibes, a 360 and the jump that broke my GoPro mount.

All on the 6m Wing-Surfer MKii. Wind was super light mostly <10kn.

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

Thanks JB

Yeah, can you talk more about the harness. When you use it and if you feel it's necessary in the learning stages.

I also notice you're putting the leash onto your harness. Is that easier to keep your front hand free from being tangled in the leash?

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hilly said..
Ok pump like a mf on a tack got it Thanks
i cruise to much. Good to see you touch down on gybes like a mere mortal

LOL, something like that. Nah on as good day you don't need to pump. This day was light and the 6m has a lot of drag when you pull up into the wind, so it kills your speed fast.

The wind on observations was 5-13kn (with lots in that 6-8kn area), so very very light. Here's my run track and stats with Waterspeed App.



And yes, in the light stuff I actually prefer to touch down when I change my feet. I am only on a 1240 HA foil on an ultra short fuselage (55cm) with a 210cm Kite rear wing, so there's not much stability at slow speeds. If I am not changing my feet I do not touch down or if it's windy. Using an 1800+ foil gives enough stability to not "need' to touch down. I actually got the idea to purposely touch down from Alex Aguera after watching his videos, he does it on purpose and it makes so much sense in tricky conditions rather than stack. It's only for a second but makes a huge difference while you're switching your stance. Otherwise I always try not touch down if possible.

Ride safe,

JB