Yeh I'm not using straps at moment. I like to move my feet around too much, - especially the back when flagged out and pumping cross onto the next swell line. Learnt a lot about the 925 stall speed yesterday which hopefully will help my prone game on that wing. Also - I found zero instability at high speeds down wave faces and when turning sharply - so my sons yaw and pitch problems must be from the V tail. Man it was so Fn good man!!!
yeh the same. Let go of the back hand, grab the nose again and reset. But ..
as I said before, a lot of my problems were from my knees slipping at that balance point - because you do need to adjust your body weight back and forth during the setup, wait, launch and planing on top of water.
so tip for others make sure you have really good board grip and over the entire board - it's essential, especially in hectic conditions.
Even on my 60L I'll use that little tail kick for the same sorta thing with the back foot. Anything to press against to keep knees in place.
someone could make a killing with some super tacky iron on knee patches for wingers lol. My Patagonia suit has some real good material on the knees that are helping me.
I noticed my reef booties were insanely slippery on the Armstrong deck pads and I looked at the soles and they were worn slick (probably from walking on asphalt or something). Took a wood rasp to them to rough them up and it seemed to help some.
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..
I have old weak legs, is it necessary to have strong legs for this technique?
On what board compared to what you are on and body weight? No different just easier on your normal board. Pretty easy on a semi sinker. The true sinker, yeh its pretty damn physical. I'm cooked today.
Select to expand quoteMidAtlanticFoil said..Leighbreeze said..MidAtlanticFoil said..
Dialed in the Stinkbug start yesterday on my -5L board. First time using it and it was a 100% success rate compared to 70% the old knee start reel in the wing method. (If I put a hole in my wing failing a start I will be so pissed)here's a clip kinda showing me get to my knees while holding the front strut handle. Thanks for the tips everyone
Hi mate
Love your work,still a beginner at the winging journey.Btw where is your go pro mounted?Leighbreeze said..MidAtlanticFoil said..
Dialed in the Stinkbug start yesterday on my -5L board. First time using it and it was a 100% success rate compared to 70% the old knee start reel in the wing method. (If I put a hole in my wing failing a start I will be so pissed)here's a clip kinda showing me get to my knees while holding the front strut handle. Thanks for the tips everyone
Hi mate
Love your work,still a beginner at the winging journey.Btw where is your go pro mounted?
Thx! Enjoy the learning curve. This forum should make it a quicker one.
The GoPro max is actually fitted to the end of my strut using a piece from old GoPro helmet mount and some bungee. Then a 7" extension. Credit to FoiltheGreats for that. You can check his story archives on Instagram for a visual on the mount.
Ok thanks,awesome footage.This forum is super helpful.Blown away how small a volume sinker wing boards you guys a trying. Windy conditions only.
Dont think I will get past my body weight in litres volume.But as you guys are proving it's totally possible on windy days.
Yeh consistent wind helps. But I'm on the same wing size as guys on boards same litreage as their weight. Thanks to the stink. You don't need to be nuked off your rocks. But yeh, those marginal days where you are dogging along waiting for a gust - yeh nah.
Yeah, after nailing down the stinkbug technique it's the only one to use with a sinker board for sure, my take on it:
Select to expand quoteArtemN said..
Yeah, after nailing down the stinkbug technique it's the only one to use with a sinker board for sure, my take on it:
That was excellent.
Only method I use now, game changer especially on a negative 15ltr board in hectic conditions.
I've worn holes in the elbows of my wetsuit doing the stinkbug, luckily just a cheapy. A mate has worn holes in his elbows, scabbed over now but painful. A touch deck grip can be an issue.
I hold the front strut handle, elbow in front of footstrap, cock knee onto rear of board, grab rear strut handle, pull in power and pulls your dangling front leg up onto ur front knee or even straight up onto front foot. Only start I do now on my 85 and 65L boards regardless of wind strength or chop.
Mike
It came together today on my 34L (although I did have enough wind to be honest). Just had a skills session and did like 30 stink bud starts with 100
percent success identical to the vid with the dude on the FG above. I also did a few squat starts to compare and they were much more difficult getting the board up on surface.
one thing I did learn is as soon as that nose angles up and out of water I'm already getting to my feet. So board is almost out of water but not quite and my front foot is coming up to meet it.
rather than piss fat around trying to plane on your knees along water surface.
Change. Will just have to accept the harder pumping when proning. But lot to be gained with that extra volume I predict. Although today was such a good day . makes me think. It's those days when everyone is putting up a 4m for a downwinders and you have to go the 5. I want to avoid that.
plus I'm no spring chicken.
thanks Eppo. When do you get the 4'10? Super anxious to hear your feedback on it!!! 
Select to expand quoteomg said..
thanks Eppo. When do you get the 4'10? Super anxious to hear your feedback on it!!!
Hopefully next week but who knows with shipping etc at the moment.
I saw some glimpses of what's possible today, finally gave the stink bug a go on my small 35L prone board. Don't know what the wind speed was but for sure not strong enough to get going doing the squat method.
Managed to balance on the knees properly (squeezing the back strap with my feet while kneeling) and get the board to the surface twice and get going. But then either the wind died or I got tired, bc I didn't manage to get up going again. But, stinkbug works! Can't wait to keep trying.
Another guy was out on his 35-40L too and getting going no problem. His board was a 3'10 though, so much thicker and corkier than mine (4'6"). We swapped boards and I struggled to balance fore/aft on it (bc of the length), but he couldn't get going on mine either so perhaps the extra liters is just what we need. As well as some volume in the rear because that's what's gona keep you high in the water when the nose is sticking up just above the surface. Really thinking of shaping myself a 45ish L board and I think I'll be able to get going in almost nothing.
But happy to have tried the stinkbug for the small board, reading everyone's experiences and tips in this thread helped a lot. So thanks to all of you!
Yeh I reckon that 45L ish mark is the sweet spot given a good overall board design for the average weight and skilled punter given the same wing with crew on non or semi sinkers. But the Stink defintely bridges the gap getting that board out of the water.
Three months ago the smallest board I had ever tried was a 75L (I bought it, I tried knee starts, I stood up once but never actually got going, I returned the board for a 95L). I gave up the entire idea of small boards and used a 125 for light wind (<15k) or 95 for medium to high. I still struggled on the 95L doing knee starts in choppy conditions or when I get tired. I am 110kg wet.
And then Eppo went on his journey for a better start and so I had a crack at the stinkbug. It took me about 10 minutes to get the process down once I understood what was happening and I now use it on all my boards simply out of habit.
What came out of this is I started using the 95L all the time because I could simply start in anything with stinkbug. It also made me look at the small board option again. I have an old Slingshot Skywalker (51L) prone board in the rack and pulled it out to give it a go. With the stinkbug start, I had no issues at all getting to a kneeling position with the wing ready to lifted into the wind. On the first day I tried it I was able to get up and going but I learnt a lot about what I should not do.
- I needed 18 to 20 knots in order to get myself planing on the surface of the water. I spent a lot of time submarining trying to get up.
- I needed to lift the wing up and clear of the water or would I catch the front wing tip everytime and simply be pushed backwards off the board.
- I could pop to my feet once I was moving forward but if the board was not surface planing I would simply stall it again at my weight. The light guys could do anything they wanted.
- On shore conditions mean you need to paddle out or you simply run into the beach before you can get up. If you have a cross shore or cross location location, go and learn there.
- If you are tall (6'3"), then you need enough length on your board to be able to get you knee and elbow onto the board for the stink bug (below 4'10" was too short for me)
- At 100kg+, you will need a wing that is just a little oversized for the conditions (if I was able to ride the 4m/95L, I would need 5m/51L).
- The stinkbug on a 51L sinker will tire you much faster than the stinkbug on a 95L (keep it in mind).
- I can ride healside in either direction, but I always lift myself up on my right leg. So goofy starts (right foot forward) are super easy going from knees to feet in under a second. But natural starts are a complete pain and success rate is 50% because I struggle with balance going rear leg first on the sinker. My solution is to practice left leg first until it becomes muscle memory on your big board.
The Skywalker was 5'10" and it felt long (the 95L was 5'4") and felt like it had swing weight (I am sure I am kidding myself), so I tried a 45L 4'10" and it felt much much better to ride and turn. But I will say that the Skywalker (only 6L more volume) is easier to surface plane and get up onto because it is a little wider through the entire body and quite square in the tail.
I agree with Big Ts comments - especially lifting that wing high, was catching the front all the time especially on bigger wings. Even at 75-77kg on the 34L, I'm having to use a metre size bigger than I'd like. Need it to get up but then too cooked for easy wave riding and for downwind swell riding runs it's a pain having a bigger wing. Hence looking forward to trying the next size up board and because of the below
another more personal issue is the effort required to get the board out the water then get going in say 15/16 knots (as you are barely planning) is I really messed up my right (natural footer left foot forward) lower back and hip. Has only just come good and even then is going to need rehab and core strengthening to resume winging during a dream week of wind as all the crew are practising for the king of the cut.
so make sure you keep up a good stretch routine and have your core strong as an ox before you smash yourself with this technique.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
another more personal issue is the effort required to get the board out the water then get going in say 15/16 knots (as you are barely planning) is I really messed up my right (natural footer left foot forward) lower back and hip. Has only just come good and even then is going to need rehab and core strengthening to resume winging during a dream week of wind as all the crew are practising for the king of the cut.
so make sure you keep up a good stretch routine and have your core strong as an ox before you smash yourself with this technique.
Thanks Epps and Tone, this is really helpful.
Eppo, did your problem arise from riding toe side? Do you (ahem) go both ways?
Select to expand quote
- If you are tall (6'3"), then you need enough length on your board to be able to get you knee and elbow onto the board for the stink bug (below 4'10" was too short for me)
Great advice. Glad someone else noticed that as well. I am 6'1'' and 5'0 board nearly to short....
Select to expand quotemarco said..
- If you are tall (6'3"), then you need enough length on your board to be able to get you knee and elbow onto the board for the stink bug (below 4'10" was too short for me)
Great advice. Glad someone else noticed that as well. I am 6'1'' and 5'0 board nearly to short....
The first thing I did on both the 51L board and 45L board was put deck grip up the front where my elbow would land for the stinkbug starts. It ruined my wetsuit and helped enormously getting to my knees. I have probably done a little over 100km on the little boards and probably 80 to 100 starts in that time, so something was bound to give. But getting to my knees now occurs 100% of the time until I get really tired.
Wondering what people are doing with the board leash while starting?
I found crawling onto the board my legs would get tangled in the leash. I stopped that by straddling the leash before climbing on.
It was easy enough to get knee sailing but I got more leg tangles once I got to my feet.
Is it just more practice? Does using an ankle or knee leash help?
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
Wondering what people are doing with the board leash while starting?
I found crawling onto the board my legs would get tangled in the leash. I stopped that by straddling the leash before climbing on.
It was easy enough to get knee sailing but I got more leg tangles once I got to my feet.
Is it just more practice? Does using an ankle or knee leash help?
Waist leash seems good.
Yeh I've tried both. The waist leash always seems to get in the bloody way. Normal surfboard leash works best for me. But hey that's me.
regarding the injury it's a probably a combination of starting on one side only trying in less and less wind to see the limits of my board. That includes squat starts. you are essentially putting a lot of stress mainly on one side of your body - that being the back leg side. And yeh continually riding toeside on a number of downwinders probably didn't help.
I rode both ways on my bigger boards but it's daunting on a tiny 34L and god forbid if you fall off and have to start again - especially if it's marginal or the wind starts to drop out !!
but funny enough I was starting to switch stance again - because of the niggling injury. Then a few days later whack!!
ps just watch my son (13) and paddy (17) practising the king of the cut run today. Little pricks just popping up with ease. Grrrrrrrr
I've returned to a short 4 ft ankle leash due to the waist leash getting in the way when doing the stinkbug. The leash now stays off the board, out of the way.
I am still using the curly wurly waste leash and on the odd occasion I need to flick it up over my rear leg when I am setting up for the stinkbug. I cannot stand having a leash bouncing around behind me, so I put up with the occasional adjustment.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..broVan said..Can555 said..broVan said..
Yes, but I try to grab one handle further back. And I don't do that thumb grabbing the nose thing. And I now, mostly go straight to back knee on board and front foot on board and then launch the wing. The more dihedral in the wing, the easier.
I'm trying to picture getting the front foot up on the board before launching the wing. Seems pretty yoga-esque considering the wing is sort of blocking you from making that move until the wing is clear? I do the start similar to the vid without the nose grab and it works really well. Haven't tried it on anything under 76L yet though. I'm 90 kg. Only issue is how this start is wearing holes in the elbows on my wetsuits so fast!
My flexibility is garbage. I think what I do is grab power handle and put that arm's elbow on board near front strap. Next I climb on with rear knee slightly aft of center and am in a stable position. I am pushing the board down with rear hand to get to my knee. Then I grab the rear power handle and in one movement I stand my torso upright, launching the wing and then my front foot goes on board just infront of front strap. I use the wing to take weight off my front leg and drop it in place. I always get to to standing with each foot to the outside of straps which puts me center balanced on the board and helps with planing.. My back foot uses the kick pad to pry up on. Then I put the front foot in strap with back just behind it for liftoff. Once on foil, I then put rear foot into strap. I can taxi in the one knee kneel for a short while but its not really worth the effort. Once I'm in that position, I can easily stand up. This move is much easier with my Dart than any other wings I have tried it with. The dihedral lets me get under the wing in a crouch. I'll try and get some vid to show.
So Brovan, you have back knee on board (just aft of center) the front is still in the water right ? And you say you are stable like that? are able to use the wing and body (torso upright) to pull that front leg up and get front foot on board just in front of front foot strap?
am I reading this correctly ?
Hi Eppo just trying to get my head around the stink bug. Is BroVan saying to go from one knee (Back Knee) on board to One knee and one foot without putting booth knees on the board
I think so. I find that horribly unstable. Might work if you have really good steady wind. In stink bud position (both knees on), crouch super low, hands on both handles pressed across front of board and into the water - you can wait for a gust and also if maybe a big swell surge is passing.
sometimes as I lift wing - not enough wind and I will fall back and resume position for a while. Although if wind decent and some swell about I don't muck around. Literally knees (which includes holding the nose of board and using both hands to stabilise board as you get to knees), lift and go. 1,2,3.
Each to their own, I've seen some whacky techniques that work. But I have only used a prone board for last 6 months or so and it seems to work.
i also make sure I am angling downwind a bit even when I get to feet, to keep speed in the board. I tend to still ratchet up the wing, angling slightly down windish as you would do on a conventional squat start.
although to be honest I am looking for a semi sinker now about 60L for those marginal days and also when doing crazy ass long downwinders in places I haven't been before. Had some scary moments lately, especially in those shark infested Esperance waters.
but contrary to some peoples opinion - nothing is better on a prone when on a wave or on a cranking downwinder. today was awesome. Just so much freedom not trying to carve a big log and pumping is so easy.
there's been plenty of descriptions of this technique on here but if you want mine broken down I can. I've found a few other subtleys that work for me.
