Select to expand quotegeorgsurfer said..
Experienced winger but total parawing beginner here, 7th sessions, can get up and jibe, learning to stash. Tried BRM Kanaha, Ozone, Fone Frigate and Duotone Stash. For large size, Duotone was by far the easiest to jibe (short lines, super lightweight canopy, thin lines). Felt as easy to jibe as a 3m BRM, seriously. Had one session where I hit every jibe in 2.5 hours. 5m Ozone was very tough, had to be super precise or PR would drape over me/board as it turns so slow. Never had a success rate of jibes of more than 8 out of ten. BRM close to the Stash, but still more difficult. Stash flies very far forward in window, nice when on foil, feels more efficient but getting up requires cleaner technique, doesn't pull like a truck like PR or Frigate. Closed cell wingtips give Stash more stability and control when overpowered. Have to see what it does to stashing. Stash is nervous in flight, moves up and down a lot, at first it bothered me, now I disregard it and it's fine. 88kg, 100L downwind board, KT Atlas 790 and 960 foil.
What size wings and how much wind?
16-20mph: Ozone 5m, Stash 5m, Kanaha4.7
20-25mph: Ozone 4.3, Stash 4m
22-28mph: Frigate 3.5, Stash 3m
Flew both Stash and Ozone 5m in 15-16mph on 1340 Atlas and 105L SuperK 2, not a chance of getting up w the Stash, got up on the Ozone, managed a handful of jibes, then wind dropped slightly and jibes ended up w wing all over nose of my board....:)
Had two more Sessions. One on 1340/5m Ozone. W this foil the Ozone is much easier to jibe. I can ride wide slow turns due to the huge glide and give the Ozone the time it needs to switch directions. Really nice how steady the Ozone flies. A 2 nd session in 18-23mph, first 5, then 4m Stash and 790 Atlas in sizeable chop (3ft). Missed 3 jibes in 2 hours, amazing how fast the Stash turns in comparison, but I wish the Stash would fly as steadily in a straight line as the Ozone.
pls keep in mind I'm a total beginner in PW, coming up on session #10
Select to expand quotegeorgsurfer said..
Had two more Sessions. One on 1340/5m Ozone. W this foil the Ozone is much easier to jibe. I can ride wide slow turns due to the huge glide and give the Ozone the time it needs to switch directions. Really nice how steady the Ozone flies. A 2 nd session in 18-23mph, first 5, then 4m Stash and 790 Atlas in sizeable chop (3ft). Missed 3 jibes in 2 hours, amazing how fast the Stash turns in comparison, but I wish the Stash would fly as steadily in a straight line as the Ozone.
pls keep in mind I'm a total beginner in PW, coming up on session #10
A tip to help a larger parawing to transition quicker (or any size for that matter). Rather than just changing the 'wrist angle' to initiate the wing through a jibe, simultaneously pull slightly down and the opposite direction of the jibe while changing the wrist angle. This will help initiate a banking turn and really keep the parawing more powered up. When you master this motion, you can do this type of banked turn just as you start turning your board downwind and the parawing can actually transition quickly and pull you through the maneuver. Practice on land.
Great tip thanks MAF. I'm learning at the mo but think I've done what you've said by accident. Good to have the technique detailed.
The few times my gybes have been successful I've felt kind of a slingshot whiplash effect as the PW comes around & in front of me. Is this usual & I just have to get used to it or am I doing something wrong?
Select to expand quoteAcker said..
Just got my 4.7 Frigate but can't try it for a few days so can report back then. Nice having the Gold/Petrol Blue colour as change from all the Darker Red/Flame ones. Big standout - it's got chunkier ribs than the 3.5 and can tell that means ultra stable when flying on land. Will also mean have to concertina more in packdown, as don't want to bend the leading edge ribs. Lighter wind still a bit of a mystery - most of my learning has been Maui in 25-40knots w Kanaha 3.2 and 2.5!
Sharing my stoke over good session on the 4.7 Frigate yesterday!
Select to expand quoteMidAtlanticFoil said..georgsurfer said..
Had two more Sessions. One on 1340/5m Ozone. W this foil the Ozone is much easier to jibe. I can ride wide slow turns due to the huge glide and give the Ozone the time it needs to switch directions. Really nice how steady the Ozone flies. A 2 nd session in 18-23mph, first 5, then 4m Stash and 790 Atlas in sizeable chop (3ft). Missed 3 jibes in 2 hours, amazing how fast the Stash turns in comparison, but I wish the Stash would fly as steadily in a straight line as the Ozone.
pls keep in mind I'm a total beginner in PW, coming up on session #10
A tip to help a larger parawing to transition quicker (or any size for that matter). Rather than just changing the 'wrist angle' to initiate the wing through a jibe, simultaneously pull slightly down and the opposite direction of the jibe while changing the wrist angle. This will help initiate a banking turn and really keep the parawing more powered up. When you master this motion, you can do this type of banked turn just as you start turning your board downwind and the parawing can actually transition quickly and pull you through the maneuver. Practice on land.
Would be amazing if you could shot a quick video with the technique you hinted at!
thanks again for your tip
Select to expand quoteMidAtlanticFoil said..georgsurfer said..
Had two more Sessions. One on 1340/5m Ozone. W this foil the Ozone is much easier to jibe. I can ride wide slow turns due to the huge glide and give the Ozone the time it needs to switch directions. Really nice how steady the Ozone flies. A 2 nd session in 18-23mph, first 5, then 4m Stash and 790 Atlas in sizeable chop (3ft). Missed 3 jibes in 2 hours, amazing how fast the Stash turns in comparison, but I wish the Stash would fly as steadily in a straight line as the Ozone.
pls keep in mind I'm a total beginner in PW, coming up on session #10
A tip to help a larger parawing to transition quicker (or any size for that matter). Rather than just changing the 'wrist angle' to initiate the wing through a jibe, simultaneously pull slightly down and the opposite direction of the jibe while changing the wrist angle. This will help initiate a banking turn and really keep the parawing more powered up. When you master this motion, you can do this type of banked turn just as you start turning your board downwind and the parawing can actually transition quickly and pull you through the maneuver. Practice on land.
That is a great tip and something I have been doing alot with my 5.5m Dwing in lighter winds. Something I would add to that is that yanking on the back of the bar, pulling hard on the C lines is a great way to save the pwing from crashing. It will bring it down in front of you and power it up before it starts flying in the next direction. Works well when I have slightly messed up a jybe and when the wind is fluky and the pwing is struggling to fly.
Pocket Rocket 5.0m and Frigate 4.7m seem to be pick of the crop so far for 10-15 knot ocean use, with theFrigate looking to have better stability, ease of use, durability, but the PR5.0 the most likely to come up on Oz s/h market.
Curious to see how Naish's new Hatch 5.1 compares with the above for that use scenario.
5.5 Frigate looks huge but might be a unicorn, but yet to see any useful feedback on it, seems to be very few 5.5s out there in the wild
Ditto the 5.4 PT Skin, be cool to see reviews of it out in the blue
With northern summer just around the corner, must be bout due for flood of new/updated parawings
Here is a review from Perth foiler sveny foils on the PTskin 5.4.
www.facebook.com/share/v/17McdpDtsV/?mibextid=wwXIfr
previously he had a 5.5m Dwing and he says the PTskin has a similar amount of power but flys a lot nicer, more responsive and much easier to pack.
I have a 3m PT skin but only had one day on it so far. I am very happy with it and have been eyeing off the 5.4m as a replacement for my 5.5m Dwing but not in a rush to change.
Here's a cool vid of Dimitry evseev using the 5.4m PT skin for light wind wave riding. Must be fairly easy to pack if he's happy using it in the waves.
Select to expand quoteflowstate said..With northern summer just around the corner, must be bout due for flood of new/updated parawings
Would that be the winter??
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..
Here's a cool vid of Dimitry evseev using the 5.4m PT skin for light wind wave riding. Must be fairly easy to pack if he's happy using it in the waves.
?si=MhGpEftedEMcMGsO
very very cool. thx for the link! reminds me of downwinding back to camp from Tombies.
impressive timing, that stow of the big trashbag as he banks onto the oncoming set. lotta energy there
seen any vid out there of launching the 5.4PT in the rough stuff? or 5.5 Frigate?
www.facebook.com/share/r/1Gtj6aU4M9/?mibextid=wwXIfr
PT skin will be coming out in a 7.6m size! Now we're really getting into some light wind territory. A bit overkill for what I'm trying to do but something that has piqued my interest is the new triple 7 Upwind Downwind wing
777kites.com/uncategorized/new-p-t-udw-upwind-ready-downwind-perfected/
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..
www.facebook.com/share/r/1Gtj6aU4M9/?mibextid=wwXIfr
PT skin will be coming out in a 7.6m size! Now we're really getting into some light wind territory. A bit overkill for what I'm trying to do but something that has piqued my interest is the new triple 7 Upwind Downwind wing
777kites.com/uncategorized/new-p-t-udw-upwind-ready-downwind-perfected/
Just reading their marketing material on UDW and it is designed for going downwind not upwind for more than transitioning further out.
Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..Youngbreezy said..
www.facebook.com/share/r/1Gtj6aU4M9/?mibextid=wwXIfr
PT skin will be coming out in a 7.6m size! Now we're really getting into some light wind territory. A bit overkill for what I'm trying to do but something that has piqued my interest is the new triple 7 Upwind Downwind wing
777kites.com/uncategorized/new-p-t-udw-upwind-ready-downwind-perfected/
Just reading their marketing material on UDW and it is designed for going downwind not upwind for more than transitioning further out.
I asked Matjaz from 777 on the pwing FB group how the upwind was in relation to the PT skin. He said this
I had the opportunity to ride both with my gear and with UDW, I still enjoyed going upwind in search of bumps, so the upwind aspect is present and, in my opinion, a good one for such a DW-oriented wing. However, P.T. Skin would still dominate, of course.
I think it is designed to go upwind and hold a solid leading edge it's just not optimised for it. Instead they've optimised it for packing away. The PT skin is rated by many as being very easy to pack away. I have a 3m PT skin and it is ridiculously easy to pack but it is a 3m.
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..
I think it is designed to go upwind and hold a solid leading edge it's just not optimised for it. Instead they've optimised it for packing away. The PT skin is rated by many as being very easy to pack away. I have a 3m PT skin and it is ridiculously easy to pack but it is a 3m.
I think your quote from fb is very clear. I think anyone would be disappointed if your game was that for every kilometre you rode downwind you had to earn it by riding upwind.
He's quote is very well worded and his honesty is refreshing.
Select to expand quoteAnyBoard said..Youngbreezy said..
I think it is designed to go upwind and hold a solid leading edge it's just not optimised for it. Instead
I think your quote from fb is very clear. I think anyone would be disappointed if your game was that for every kilometre you rode downwind you had to earn it by riding upwind.
So, in lighter conditions, where you are sailing upwind for every km downwind, the PT Skin 5.4 - or the 6.5 if you have maaad trashbag skills - would be the choice over the UDW, despite the moniker.....
I think they just meant it goes upwind decent but isn't optimised for it. Instead they've optimised it for pack ability.
I would be interested in a 5.6m with heaps of early grunt that packs down nice and small. Would be great for light days and to have in a dry bag for safety on longer runs or going far offshore.
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..
I think they just meant it goes upwind decent but isn't optimised....
i get ya
Agreed > happy to compromise some upwind capability in exchange for improved grunt/stability when getting up in light wind rough stuff.
Bit of practice with that particular wing, and reasonable perfromance in your board and foil choice, upwind performance be good enough for upwind/downwind sessions.
I'm using neutral vol board so i can chug home in no knots, so not as stable as the -20L's crew are riding their trashbags, really value wing's low end stability
Only briefly tried the 5.0 pocket rocket, but that had suprising amount of grunt, was just the lines that bamboozled me. Like you say, this 5.6 PT UDW with it's short lines and mid-aspect ratio, intriguing mix of simpler handling and sheer grunt.
The material on the PT skin is so light and the 3m I have just disappears. Felt a bit easier to pack and smaller pack size than the 3m pocket rocket. Thats what's got me excited about their new wing. If they're really optimising for pack down it could be amazing at that.
Plus landed here in OZ my ptskin was about 300-400 cheaper than the competition.
cant wait for the reviews to come out.
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..
I think they just meant it goes upwind decent but isn't optimised for it. Instead they've optimised it for pack ability.
I would be interested in a 5.6m with heaps of early grunt that packs down nice and small. Would be great for light days and to have in a dry bag for safety on longer runs or going far offshore.
It seems to be aligned with the Kanaha 5.5m, it pulls like a truck to start and the material still allows you to package small.
The range can be 10 to 15 knt, maybe more in the ends. Only cons is that it does not goes upwind as good as the smaller kanahas, which are insane.
any indication if the 5.5 and 6.5 Frigate design is tuned to facilitate line management/collapsing/stowing of all that cloth and line, or are purely scaled-up versions of the 4.0, 4.7 ?
Select to expand quoteRetina said..
Sabfoil Ala DW 3m is a good cheap alternative to ozone:
He is a team rider for a shop selling these, I wouldn't take it as an objective review.
I rode the 777 PT Skin 3m for the first time yesterday. Super impressed! Excellent all-round and the fabric is crazy light. Stable, fast, packs well, does all da tings. Stoked.
Select to expand quoteflowstate said..
Curious to see how Naish's new Hatch 5.1 compares with the above for that use scenario.
Just heard from my local dealer that the hatch isn't coming until March 
