Select to expand quoteBWalnut said..SlowlyButSurely said.. Only the bundled As as far as I am concerned. Why would you want to grab all? Easier stow?Holoholo said.. I generally like to stow using all front lines unless I'm completely lit as it saves a step trying to sort out the leading edge.
As Holoholo said, I prefer to skip the step of gathering the tips. Especially since I ride the smaller sizes at 3m and under. I find it smoother to grab all the lines, pull until the tips reach my hand, then stroke the center lines into position and stow. Doing it that way I don't actually have to look at the parawing while I am packing and stowing. The center line collapse is nice when overpowered for sure but I definitely have to look down to gather the tips.
So, I just wanted to confirm that both styles of collapsing are still good to go and there's no new reason/design that presents a full A-line collapse.
Its a bit trickier to do it using all the A-lines because they skew out a lot and directly from the bar, plus you have the mixer in the way as well. The way the centre bit concertinas it is pretty easy to then grab the two outliers, I think you'll find you will probably migrate to the intended manner.
Select to expand quoteSlowlyButSurely said..
Review is great as per Gav's usual. but I reiterate again my opinion about the upwind capability of the PP which is not that far off from the PR. Whoever comes from BRM Kanaha's and Ka'a learnt the hard way. Basically riding parawing on front lines and sail at 40-45deg. I have seen people reaching unreal angles, even on the Ka'a
also the review does not mention the much improved construction of the PP. It was reported in multiple venues how battens stitching and trailing edge of the Pocket Rocket developed issues over time. The PP addresses both.
pull wise there is no comparison. The PP starts earlier than the PR. Once again it is a matter of habits and people coming from BRMs will have an edge. With the PP sail has to be placed deeper and lower in the window compared to the PR to take off.
i am the guy outside the chorus here, and probably it is due to the condition specifics I usually ride. The PR in sizes 4.3 and 5 turned very poor, it was really bad for quick retracts and redeploys and very prone to line tangles. The PP improves ALL these issues.
I didn't get the chance to ride the larger PP's but I would absolutely agree that they will really shine compared with the PR in 4.3/5.
Ultimately, Ozone is a bit of a victim of its own success, in that the PR performs extraordinarily well upwind - the PP is ahead of most parawings on the market on nearly every front, but it does point upwind a little less and is a little slower upwind. This is just physics, you can't have everything and that's one of the tradeoffs for stability. If the PR wasn't there for comparison, I don't think most of us would notice - it is obvious riding back to back that there is a difference, but in most conditions its not so stark that you would really notice it day to day.
Ref your comment @Holoholo, I ride with harness right at the front of the bar on the PR and the PP.
Select to expand quoteCH3MTR4IL5 said..SlowlyButSurely said..
Review is great as per Gav's usual. but I reiterate again my opinion about the upwind capability of the PP which is not that far off from the PR. Whoever comes from BRM Kanaha's and Ka'a learnt the hard way. Basically riding parawing on front lines and sail at 40-45deg. I have seen people reaching unreal angles, even on the Ka'a
also the review does not mention the much improved construction of the PP. It was reported in multiple venues how battens stitching and trailing edge of the Pocket Rocket developed issues over time. The PP addresses both.
pull wise there is no comparison. The PP starts earlier than the PR. Once again it is a matter of habits and people coming from BRMs will have an edge. With the PP sail has to be placed deeper and lower in the window compared to the PR to take off.
i am the guy outside the chorus here, and probably it is due to the condition specifics I usually ride. The PR in sizes 4.3 and 5 turned very poor, it was really bad for quick retracts and redeploys and very prone to line tangles. The PP improves ALL these issues.
I didn't get the chance to ride the larger PP's but I would absolutely agree that they will really shine compared with the PR in 4.3/5.
Ultimately, Ozone is a bit of a victim of its own success, in that the PR performs extraordinarily well upwind - the PP is ahead of most parawings on the market on nearly every front, but it does point upwind a little less and is a little slower upwind. This is just physics, you can't have everything and that's one of the tradeoffs for stability. If the PR wasn't there for comparison, I don't think most of us would notice - it is obvious riding back to back that there is a difference, but in most conditions its not so stark that you would really notice it day to day.
Ref your comment @Holoholo, I ride with harness right at the front of the bar on the PR and the PP.
Yeah spot on brother. Wasn't negating your take, which to be more clear, I thought was a really good one. I'm just allaying fears- saying my experience was I had initial concerns going upwind on the PP, but that they were gone with only a little added time. And yeah- I specifically jumped on the PP in the 4.3 as that size starts to really exaggerate the issues with the PR/line length, softness. The improvements made in the PP are hyper-highlighted. I've been on the PR in 3.0 and 3.6, shortened the lines 6" which helped immensely with my bridle complaints and still performs a treat. I'd love to have one of everything, but not having unlimited budget, I will happily stick with those for the time being. For me the perfect do everything PW would be: New smaller handle, 6" shorter bridles in new configuration/material with a PR canopy. I have to think that's on the way. If so I'm all over it.
Select to expand quoteHoloholo said..CH3MTR4IL5 said..SlowlyButSurely said..
Review is great as per Gav's usual. but I reiterate again my opinion about the upwind capability of the PP which is not that far off from the PR. Whoever comes from BRM Kanaha's and Ka'a learnt the hard way. Basically riding parawing on front lines and sail at 40-45deg. I have seen people reaching unreal angles, even on the Ka'a
also the review does not mention the much improved construction of the PP. It was reported in multiple venues how battens stitching and trailing edge of the Pocket Rocket developed issues over time. The PP addresses both.
pull wise there is no comparison. The PP starts earlier than the PR. Once again it is a matter of habits and people coming from BRMs will have an edge. With the PP sail has to be placed deeper and lower in the window compared to the PR to take off.
i am the guy outside the chorus here, and probably it is due to the condition specifics I usually ride. The PR in sizes 4.3 and 5 turned very poor, it was really bad for quick retracts and redeploys and very prone to line tangles. The PP improves ALL these issues.
I didn't get the chance to ride the larger PP's but I would absolutely agree that they will really shine compared with the PR in 4.3/5.
Ultimately, Ozone is a bit of a victim of its own success, in that the PR performs extraordinarily well upwind - the PP is ahead of most parawings on the market on nearly every front, but it does point upwind a little less and is a little slower upwind. This is just physics, you can't have everything and that's one of the tradeoffs for stability. If the PR wasn't there for comparison, I don't think most of us would notice - it is obvious riding back to back that there is a difference, but in most conditions its not so stark that you would really notice it day to day.
Ref your comment @Holoholo, I ride with harness right at the front of the bar on the PR and the PP.
Yeah spot on brother. Wasn't negating your take, which to be more clear, I thought was a really good one. I'm just allaying fears- saying my experience was I had initial concerns going upwind on the PP, but that they were gone with only a little added time. And yeah- I specifically jumped on the PP in the 4.3 as that size starts to really exaggerate the issues with the PR/line length, softness. The improvements made in the PP are hyper-highlighted. I've been on the PR in 3.0 and 3.6, shortened the lines 6" which helped immensely with my bridle complaints and still performs a treat. I'd love to have one of everything, but not having unlimited budget, I will happily stick with those for the time being. For me the perfect do everything PW would be: New smaller handle, 6" shorter bridles in new configuration/material with a PR canopy. I have to think that's on the way. If so I'm all over it.
I think you just described a Ka'a
Select to expand quoteeppo said..BWalnut said..SlowlyButSurely said.. Only the bundled As as far as I am concerned. Why would you want to grab all? Easier stow?Holoholo said.. I generally like to stow using all front lines unless I'm completely lit as it saves a step trying to sort out the leading edge.
As Holoholo said, I prefer to skip the step of gathering the tips. Especially since I ride the smaller sizes at 3m and under. I find it smoother to grab all the lines, pull until the tips reach my hand, then stroke the center lines into position and stow. Doing it that way I don't actually have to look at the parawing while I am packing and stowing. The center line collapse is nice when overpowered for sure but I definitely have to look down to gather the tips.
So, I just wanted to confirm that both styles of collapsing are still good to go and there's no new reason/design that presents a full A-line collapse.
Intrigued . so you grabbed all lines. pull until reach the tips . then stow . how are not not still having to collapse the battens into each either . they are still spread out at this point ?
oh yeh i've used a few ideas . didn't work well for the 4.3m to be honest - uneven when you cinch the lines in - lots of air in it - swings around crazily - i'm sure though if you do this lists of time it may work. I've settled with a full A line pull, run the lines through the hand again to take up line slack, bar out behind leading - squeeze / consatine using bar with all these lines into same hand holding para leading edge and bar. one spin roll up following length of bar and in . anyhow works for me - close to 100 percent redeploy - not quite yet but getting there
