On a positive note, my replacement 5.5m arrived and it is an absolute cracker. Super fun ....
Select to expand quoteatomu said..kitesem said..
Is there any easy way to tell if you have the wrong bridalled version. Im in the market for a second hand one. thanks
I was wondering the same thing because I saw a lot of the 4.2 on secondary market and friends want to get for cheaper.So I started mapping the canopy anchor points & lines between my flawed batch 4.2 and newly received corrected batch. (also want to measure lines to understand the difference.) So seems like all anchor points are the same, but didn't measure exact position yet.But the flawed version has 5 A lines (red) on the wing tip while the corrected version has 3 A lines and 2 B lines (orange).It also has two extra brake lines (yellow) on the 4th and 10th rib trailing edge, obvious as it's one line that goes from the bar to the trailing edge straight. (rib on => left and right from the center, wing tip being 12th rib)Going to post the measurements comparison once I've compiled them.Hope that helps
Looking forward to your measurements to understand the difference.
Select to expand quotegneve said..atomu said..kitesem said..
Is there any easy way to tell if you have the wrong bridalled version. Im in the market for a second hand one. thanks
I was wondering the same thing because I saw a lot of the 4.2 on secondary market and friends want to get for cheaper.So I started mapping the canopy anchor points & lines between my flawed batch 4.2 and newly received corrected batch. (also want to measure lines to understand the difference.) So seems like all anchor points are the same, but didn't measure exact position yet.But the flawed version has 5 A lines (red) on the wing tip while the corrected version has 3 A lines and 2 B lines (orange).It also has two extra brake lines (yellow) on the 4th and 10th rib trailing edge, obvious as it's one line that goes from the bar to the trailing edge straight. (rib on => left and right from the center, wing tip being 12th rib)Going to post the measurements comparison once I've compiled them.Hope that helps
Looking forward to your measurements to understand the difference.
Done compiling the data on both, and drawing the line & canopy plans, but I can't post pictures here yet so gonna put that on github I think.Overall, it seems more confusing than enlightening.I guess I expected few changes between the two sets of bridles/lines which would point to a quick fix (like move two wingtip A lines to B lines, like suggested before) but it's not exactly the case.It looks like the whole canopy geometry has changed (so might try to generate a 3d plan or 2d projection?!?)p.s. why is the post formatting lost each time I post?!! do I need to insert html tags...
I received my replacement last night and have moved the bar over. Chance for some wind this weekend so hoping to finally give this a go.
Select to expand quotegneve said..
I received my replacement last night and have moved the bar over. Chance for some wind this weekend so hoping to finally give this a go.
What do you mean, moved your bar over?
The warranty replacement parawing is canopy and bridles only, no bar, no bag... So you need to remove the bar from the original, transfer it to the new one and dispose of the original. ie. not supposed to be left with one bad parawing and one good one.
The replacement, rigged as it is vs the original, is much better, more stable, no wingtip fluttering causing front collapse, but that's only from longboarding on concrete with it. I also can't wait to go try it on the water!
Select to expand quoteJohnnyTsunami said..
Has anyone had issues with these wings and had to tune them? I had a great session on a brm 4m and a 3m. My first two sessions were successful, basically not much to learn besides how to launch it and to jibe slow and how to NOT pump it when getting going.
Then my 4.2m flow came and in about as much wind as the previous sessions and it just is absolutely gutless, collapses, tried to dive into the water as much as it can. I think the bridles might be messed up somehow. No idea where to start with the things besides making sure all the lines are symmetrical.
This is my exact issue and my parawing wasn't a part of the recall. Have you or anyone else solved this with a bridle mod? My wing is barely usable.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..JohnnyTsunami said..
Has anyone had issues with these wings and had to tune them? I had a great session on a brm 4m and a 3m. My first two sessions were successful, basically not much to learn besides how to launch it and to jibe slow and how to NOT pump it when getting going.
Then my 4.2m flow came and in about as much wind as the previous sessions and it just is absolutely gutless, collapses, tried to dive into the water as much as it can. I think the bridles might be messed up somehow. No idea where to start with the things besides making sure all the lines are symmetrical.
This is my exact issue and my parawing wasn't a part of the recall. Have you or anyone else solved this with a bridle mod? My wing is barely usable.
Are you sure it is not part of the recall? I have a 4.2m and 3m Dwings which fly really well. Better than the 2.9m BRM I had. Heaps of grunt and can pump up on the foil, unlike the BRM.
Select to expand quoteatomu said..
The warranty replacement parawing is canopy and bridles only, no bar, no bag... So you need to remove the bar from the original, transfer it to the new one and dispose of the original. ie. not supposed to be left with one bad parawing and one good one.
The replacement, rigged as it is vs the original, is much better, more stable, no wingtip fluttering causing front collapse, but that's only from longboarding on concrete with it. I also can't wait to go try it on the water!
Select to expand quotehilly said..Windbot said..JohnnyTsunami said..
Has anyone had issues with these wings and had to tune them? I had a great session on a brm 4m and a 3m. My first two sessions were successful, basically not much to learn besides how to launch it and to jibe slow and how to NOT pump it when getting going.
Then my 4.2m flow came and in about as much wind as the previous sessions and it just is absolutely gutless, collapses, tried to dive into the water as much as it can. I think the bridles might be messed up somehow. No idea where to start with the things besides making sure all the lines are symmetrical.
This is my exact issue and my parawing wasn't a part of the recall. Have you or anyone else solved this with a bridle mod? My wing is barely usable.
Are you sure it is not part of the recall? I have a 4.2m and 3m Dwings which fly really well. Better than the 2.9m BRM I had. Heaps of grunt and can pump up on the foil, unlike the BRM.
Yes my serial number was not part of the recall, nor does it have the known bad bridle configuration but my steering lines seem way too long making the wing gutless and unresponsive.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..hilly said..Windbot said..JohnnyTsunami said..
Has anyone had issues with these wings and had to tune them? I had a great session on a brm 4m and a 3m. My first two sessions were successful, basically not much to learn besides how to launch it and to jibe slow and how to NOT pump it when getting going.
Then my 4.2m flow came and in about as much wind as the previous sessions and it just is absolutely gutless, collapses, tried to dive into the water as much as it can. I think the bridles might be messed up somehow. No idea where to start with the things besides making sure all the lines are symmetrical.
This is my exact issue and my parawing wasn't a part of the recall. Have you or anyone else solved this with a bridle mod? My wing is barely usable.
Are you sure it is not part of the recall? I have a 4.2m and 3m Dwings which fly really well. Better than the 2.9m BRM I had. Heaps of grunt and can pump up on the foil, unlike the BRM.
Yes my serial number was not part of the recall, nor does it have the known bad bridle configuration but my steering lines seem way too long making the wing gutless and unresponsive.
Compare it with another Dwing??
Select to expand quotehilly said..Windbot said..hilly said..Windbot said..JohnnyTsunami said..
Has anyone had issues with these wings and had to tune them? I had a great session on a brm 4m and a 3m. My first two sessions were successful, basically not much to learn besides how to launch it and to jibe slow and how to NOT pump it when getting going.
Then my 4.2m flow came and in about as much wind as the previous sessions and it just is absolutely gutless, collapses, tried to dive into the water as much as it can. I think the bridles might be messed up somehow. No idea where to start with the things besides making sure all the lines are symmetrical.
This is my exact issue and my parawing wasn't a part of the recall. Have you or anyone else solved this with a bridle mod? My wing is barely usable.
Are you sure it is not part of the recall? I have a 4.2m and 3m Dwings which fly really well. Better than the 2.9m BRM I had. Heaps of grunt and can pump up on the foil, unlike the BRM.
Yes my serial number was not part of the recall, nor does it have the known bad bridle configuration but my steering lines seem way too long making the wing gutless and unresponsive.
Compare it with another Dwing??
I will let Flow do that. As the consumer on the other side of the world I don' t feel it is my job to do that. Even if i had access to another D-wing. Given the complexity of the bridles it would mean hundreds of measurements potentially. If i found the issue it's not even like i could do much about it as knots would only weaken the bridles. It's all so disappointing as it sounds like my parawing season here is now cooked given the turnaround time people in this thread are complaining about with this company.
Select to expand quoteWindbot said..hilly said..Windbot said..hilly said..Windbot said..JohnnyTsunami said..
Has anyone had issues with these wings and had to tune them? I had a great session on a brm 4m and a 3m. My first two sessions were successful, basically not much to learn besides how to launch it and to jibe slow and how to NOT pump it when getting going.
Then my 4.2m flow came and in about as much wind as the previous sessions and it just is absolutely gutless, collapses, tried to dive into the water as much as it can. I think the bridles might be messed up somehow. No idea where to start with the things besides making sure all the lines are symmetrical.
This is my exact issue and my parawing wasn't a part of the recall. Have you or anyone else solved this with a bridle mod? My wing is barely usable.
Are you sure it is not part of the recall? I have a 4.2m and 3m Dwings which fly really well. Better than the 2.9m BRM I had. Heaps of grunt and can pump up on the foil, unlike the BRM.
Yes my serial number was not part of the recall, nor does it have the known bad bridle configuration but my steering lines seem way too long making the wing gutless and unresponsive.
Compare it with another Dwing??
I will let Flow do that. As the consumer on the other side of the world I don' t feel it is my job to do that. Even if i had access to another D-wing. Given the complexity of the bridles it would mean hundreds of measurements potentially. If i found the issue it's not even like i could do much about it as knots would only weaken the bridles. It's all so disappointing as it sounds like my parawing season here is now cooked given the turnaround time people in this thread are complaining about with this company.
Is anyone else out on a parawing? They need more wind than a wing especially when learning.
Select to expand quotehilly said..Windbot said..hilly said..Windbot said..hilly said..Windbot said..JohnnyTsunami said..
Has anyone had issues with these wings and had to tune them? I had a great session on a brm 4m and a 3m. My first two sessions were successful, basically not much to learn besides how to launch it and to jibe slow and how to NOT pump it when getting going.
Then my 4.2m flow came and in about as much wind as the previous sessions and it just is absolutely gutless, collapses, tried to dive into the water as much as it can. I think the bridles might be messed up somehow. No idea where to start with the things besides making sure all the lines are symmetrical.
This is my exact issue and my parawing wasn't a part of the recall. Have you or anyone else solved this with a bridle mod? My wing is barely usable.
Are you sure it is not part of the recall? I have a 4.2m and 3m Dwings which fly really well. Better than the 2.9m BRM I had. Heaps of grunt and can pump up on the foil, unlike the BRM.
Yes my serial number was not part of the recall, nor does it have the known bad bridle configuration but my steering lines seem way too long making the wing gutless and unresponsive.
Compare it with another Dwing??
I will let Flow do that. As the consumer on the other side of the world I don' t feel it is my job to do that. Even if i had access to another D-wing. Given the complexity of the bridles it would mean hundreds of measurements potentially. If i found the issue it's not even like i could do much about it as knots would only weaken the bridles. It's all so disappointing as it sounds like my parawing season here is now cooked given the turnaround time people in this thread are complaining about with this company.
Is anyone else out on a parawing? They need more wind than a wing especially when learning.
Another guy was on a 4.2 also and was fine in the same wind conditions. His wing was not constantly diving and actually had power. Whenever i use my parawings from other brands in other sizes they behave beautifully. This thing's steering lines are too long.
Well, just in case you want to verify you lines length on a flow d-wing 4.2, new version replacement from faulty batch, here's what I have.Legend:Red lines == AsOrange lines == BsYellow brake lines == ZsFrom bar: Main (M) -> Second (S) -> Third (T) ... -> Line Alpha + Rib # + a,b,c,... (order from LE to TE)Z's are straight from bar to canopyI didn't have time to clean this up so post any questions you have for clarification.All size in mm, +/- 5mm I estimate, but unlikely to be confused between "versions" of the bridling
Amazing work Atomu. I am boxing it up today but may measure some of the z lines before I do. It feels like if the were 2cm shorter i would have a locked in parawing!
Follow up with details in a different earlier format (named second A line on rib 12 as A122 instead of a cleaner A12b as above)Hope it helps!And again, corrected bridles make a huge positive difference, was on that 4.2m2 in ~10kt last weekend (for the fun/challenge of it with no hope of getting on foil) and it was taxiing at the limit of lift with total control of the position of the wing in the window, with instant reaction to input... nothing like the "LE collapsing -> drifting back in the window -> re-opening -> surging -> yanking" bad-batch wing...
So far my z lines are coming in 2-4cms shorter than yours, this could explain the backstalling and why this wing doesn't park unless a wingtip is practically on the water.
Considering expanding my quiver for higher winds and thinking about a 3m to pair with my 4.2m dwing. Were there any production issues on the 3m?
Yeah, initially there were some production problems with the 3.0 also, but all new D-wings should be functioning properly. I have a 3.0 and 4.2 D-wing and they are quite okay, but today I'd only buy one with a heavy discount as the market arguably has better alternatives now. Why not go for a Pocket rocket, BRM v2 or Frigate instead?
Select to expand quoteJve said..
Yeah, initially there were some production problems with the 3.0 also, but all new D-wings should be functioning properly. I have a 3.0 and 4.2 D-wing and they are quite okay, but today I'd only buy one with a heavy discount as the market arguably has better alternatives now. Why not go for a Pocket rocket, BRM v2 or Frigate instead?
The PR does look really good.
Select to expand quotegneve said..
Considering expanding my quiver for higher winds and thinking about a 3m to pair with my 4.2m dwing. Were there any production issues on the 3m?
They are all good now. My 5.5 and 3 were replaced and the new pwings are fantastic.
Hey guys, just picked up a second hand early model 4.2 with low hours. 1st session was very powered to overpowered. Upwind excellent, depower was better than my V1 BRMs. Second session in variable wind both under and overpowered my 4.2 behaved exactly like others have described: tips folding, flying to water, stalling, difficult to make bar input correct behaviour. Contacted Felipe and he graciously replied quickly to my inquiry saying that the behaviour is normal. I don't expect the Dwing to fly in under 10 knots, but I thought it should at least fly well in 12. 18 knots it's great; just feel like I'm missing the bottom end tuning potentially. Any thoughts? Just the way it is?
Select to expand quoteWindoc said..
Hey guys, just picked up a second hand early model 4.2 with low hours. 1st session was very powered to overpowered. Upwind excellent, depower was better than my V1 BRMs. Second session in variable wind both under and overpowered my 4.2 behaved exactly like others have described: tips folding, flying to water, stalling, difficult to make bar input correct behaviour. Contacted Felipe and he graciously replied quickly to my inquiry saying that the behaviour is normal. I don't expect the Dwing to fly in under 10 knots, but I thought it should at least fly well in 12. 18 knots it's great; just feel like I'm missing the bottom end tuning potentially. Any thoughts? Just the way it is?
They fly differently to BRM V1 in light wind. A bit more back line pressure is required and active flying. Should fly fine in 12 knots but below that a bit of a challenge especially if it is gusty. Wet canopy will not help. Saying that I can fly mine in lighter wind now compared to when I went from BRM to the Dwing.
After messaging Cynbad about bridle shortening on the Ozone PR 3m (9.5inches or half of the secondary bridle line), I got the idea the same could be applied to my 4.2 dwing. The shortest 2nd bridle line is the green outside lines at 14". Shortened all bridle lines by 7". Land tests are all good with a less cumbersome wad/douse.
Select to expand quotebigtone667 said..
On a positive note, my replacement 5.5m arrived and it is an absolute cracker. Super fun ....
How are you liking the 5.5? I have one but haven't used it much yet except for 1 short session with too much seaweed. I found the turning to be ok, better than I thought, gybes were easy enough. The lines are very long I am 6'3" and it takes my full arm span to reach all the way to the canopy. A lot of canopy to deal with but packing it up does seem doable as long as there's some decent bumps. Didn't manage it that session as bumps were crap and seaweed bad.
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..bigtone667 said..
On a positive note, my replacement 5.5m arrived and it is an absolute cracker. Super fun ....
How are you liking the 5.5? I have one but haven't used it much yet except for 1 short session with too much seaweed. I found the turning to be ok, better than I thought, gybes were easy enough. The lines are very long I am 6'3" and it takes my full arm span to reach all the way to the canopy. A lot of canopy to deal with but packing it up does seem doable as long as there's some decent bumps. Didn't manage it that session as bumps were crap and seaweed bad.
I am really enjoying it.
I am probably 90% successful on jibes. I find it really easy to run behind the 5.5 and have the thing land on you .
It is really all about forcing the 5.5 to stay downwind of you with some backhand stalling. Been fun learning it.
I have not really tried hard to gather the whole pwing in. I just grab the front lines in and loosely collapse the leading edge just to remove power.
Cannot believe how light I can get on foil now with the 4.2. Hard to gybe due to the light wind. Gust of 12 knots enough to get up on foil. Not what I thought when I started on the Pwing 
