Do narrow boards really start easier?

This is today, good 6ft waves with 4ft chop mixed in, currently windy enough for small board but meant to drop later

Select to expand quote

PointOmega said..
To be fair, I would not recommend the small 75l 17" Sultan Wing as a low wind specialist. Yes, it takes off more quickly than my equal volume Armstrong FG due presumably to the narrow plan shape, but if you're focused on a board that will reliably lower your wind threshold I'd go with a larger size Sultan wing - 85 liters is 18" wide and 5'10, or even the 95. I absolutely love my 75l sultan wing, but primarily because it disappears under me like a much smaller true sinker board and because i can prone it easily. It is an absolute pleasure to ride - though the 5'10 must be very very close. To reliably obtain the benefits of the DW boardshape, pick a volume closer to 95l and 18-19.5 wide, like the Armstrong 85/96l downwind boards. I have the 96l and even at 6'8" it feels much shorter and nimbler than you'd expect.

I'm relieved to read this. You echo my conclusion after using a Sultan Wing for the last month.

I'm on the Amos 85L Sultan Wing (5'10' long, 18' wide). I weigh 84 kg. I am a competent winger. I used a 60L Amos Nitro Wing (5' long and 24" wide) last season, and the one before that, a 90 L Amos Tomahawk (5'2" long and 26" wide). My biggest wing is a 5.3 Armie XPS; my daily driver foil is the MA1000.

I was disappointed with the board during my first session - I had high expectations. It quickly became apparent that this particular board would not be a proper light wind board for me. Therefore, I agree with your suggestion of 10 - 20 L over body weight for a proper light wind board. Subsequent sessions have been very different positive experiences in other conditions - everything from 10 to 30 knots. Calm ocean to big rolling ocean swell. Waves to flat and everything in between. But mainly on the windier side, a 3 m2 wing would have been the most commonly used size this time. And now I can say that this board is a quiver killer for me. I.e. the only board I use and can see myself using for this season.

The reasons for this are numerous. It allows me to ride my existing quiver and preferred small foils in much lighter wind than my 60 L Nitro. But not in crazy 7-10 knot conditions (that would require a larger wing, foil or board, IMHO). It pumps well (maybe even better than my Nitro - even though this does not make sense). It disappears when you ride, as you said. The width is not an issue once up. It's excellent in waves and open ocean swell. It already starts moving and accelerating from an early stage during a rodeo-style stinkbug start. This is a *huge* advantage over my Nitro and one of the main reasons it's a quiver killer. If you can point your nose downwind, this early movement translates to a "running start" effect. This, of course, translates to being able to use foils with a high stall speed. Combining these two effects is the most significant advantage of the board's design, IMHO.

Drawbacks: it can be pretty tricky in shore dump compared to a shorter sinker. It is hard to manoeuvre through the break given the shape, whether on the back (my preferred option) or on the side). It requires a rodeo-style stinkbug variation to get going (not a problem if you care flexible). It takes a while to learn to ride it. And to Lee's point, getting going in unruly conditions is *definitely* harder. I am getting better at this but not quite there yet. But it also took me a couple of weeks to build up the confidence and experience when I moved from a 90 L to a 60 L board. I can do our local downwind run with the board in 20-knot conditions but not yet in 30-knot situations. For example, I bailed on the DW run last Saturday because it took me 10 minutes to get up in those seas.

My 6 1 x 21 95l gets up easier than 5 10 x 29 122l with 100kg on them, go figure. Sup with FoilDrive. Unfortunately the 6 1 sinks if the FoilDrive looses connection. Which happens every time it goes under water which is often

Hi,

I just switched from an 88L 5'1 27" to a 90L 5'6 20". My goal is not necessarily light wind winging, but I hope to be able to get going easier and/or with smaller wings/foils in my typical lake conditions (patchy wind...).

I expected it to be a bit harder to get on my feet, and it definetively is, much more than anticipated. What I didn't expect is how much faster this board sinks in comparison to my old one, despite being the same volume. I suspect it's a matter of the reduced surface size and thus water resistance on the way down? I really didn't expect this, I was frequently submerged between knee and almost hip deep. I'm 88Kg (+wetsuit etc), and with the stubby board I rarely sank deeper then my calves.

I have only been out once, so no conclusion yet on fulfilling my objective with the board. Powered up I could get it on foil without pumping, which did almost never work on the short/wide board. I think I need a few more hours on it to be able to reduce foil/wing size.

In the air it's fantastic by the way, it's super small, and allwos me to turn much tighter than with the wide board!

The whole issue of choppy conditions goes away once the board is underwater. If the board floats on top of the water it gets pushed by the chop. Once it is leveled a foot or so underwater becomes super stable regardless of the width. IMO, equal to under 10L of your weight it's a nightmare. I am 90kg and my 60l board it's more comfortable and easier than my 75L and they go up with the same wind.

Yes, they start easier. As far as the thickness goes, yes a narrow board tends to be thicker. However, you should be dramatically sizing your foil down which offsets a huge amount of the thickness. I went from a 1500 daily driver to a 850 daily driver for foils this year due to the narrow shape. Whatever responsiveness I lost by adding a touch of thickness was completely offset by the fact that narrow flys better and and 850 foil is way more fun than a 1500.

Select to expand quote

hilly said..

bolocom said..
The whole issue of choppy conditions goes away once the board is underwater. If the board floats on top of the water it gets pushed by the chop. Once it is leveled a foot or so underwater becomes super stable regardless of the width. IMO, equal to under 10L of your weight it's a nightmare. I am 90kg and my 60l board it's more comfortable and easier than my 75L and they go up with the same wind.

Until the wind drops and you have to float in.

Sure, if there is no wind a larger board floats more. But with enough wind a small board does everything better than a large one. In light wind a DW board is great.the moment the wind is over 18knots I rather be on a small board.

I've had my fifth session on a casey carver 6'2 x 5 3/8" x 20' x 95L, am 98-102kg and 6'3, I use to ride a 5'4 x 26.5 x 104L for over a year, the 6'2 feels just as short as the 5'4 due to the tracks being more forward, and it definitely starts way quicker, a different technique is required, point slightly more downwind and one or two pumps with the wing and legs, it accelerates and up on foil.

It takes a bit to get use to the extra length and narrowness and it can have a mind of it's own in chop, as in very directional and will throw you off balance, but once you learn how it behaves one can compensate for it.

I managed my first foiling 360s today winging (toe side gybe entry finishing with a tack) in one fluid move and ride away all staying on foil, I attribute this to the ability to be able turn more aggressively than my 27' board, having said this I never tried it on my old board.

Tacking is way easier on narrower boards too, even if you touch down heel side tack, the board just bounces off the water and maintains speed.

I wouldn't want to go thicker than this that's for sure and would prefer thinner, but not possible given the volume I need, and I'm not sure I'd want to go skinnier either than 20' as you can't offset your foot stance to aggressively throw the foil around, my toes are nearly hanging off the edge as it is. The narrower or thicker you go you'll definitely have to change your foiling style if you like to throw your foil around.

If there's no wind the board is under the water just above ankles, so standing and slogging is harder, but paddling it back is a breeze. I've tried it prone, can't duck dive it that's for sure.

It's not a light wind wing board for me, and TBH I wouldn't want a DW board for light wind as the extra length would be painful, probably more doable but light wind winging is really not for me anyway.

It's still early days with the new board, but it's fun, fast, agile and definitely doesn't feel big, but I now know that I much prefer narrower boards 100% and yes narrower boards do start easier!

Select to expand quote

BWalnut said..

noepoxy said..
I've had my fifth session on a casey carver 6'2 x 5 3/8" x 20' x 95L, am 98-102kg and 6'3, I use to ride a 5'4 x 26.5 x 104L for over a year, the 6'2 feels just as short as the 5'4 due to the tracks being more forward, and it definitely starts way quicker, a different technique is required, point slightly more downwind and one or two pumps with the wing and legs, it accelerates and up on foil.

It takes a bit to get use to the extra length and narrowness and it can have a mind of it's own in chop, as in very directional and will throw you off balance, but once you learn how it behaves one can compensate for it.

I managed my first foiling 360s today winging (toe side gybe entry finishing with a tack) in one fluid move and ride away all staying on foil, I attribute this to the ability to be able turn more aggressively than my 27' board, having said this I never tried it on my old board.

Tacking is way easier on narrower boards too, even if you touch down heel side tack, the board just bounces off the water and maintains speed.

I wouldn't want to go thicker than this that's for sure and would prefer thinner, but not possible given the volume I need, and I'm not sure I'd want to go skinnier either than 20' as you can't offset your foot stance to aggressively throw the foil around, my toes are nearly hanging off the edge as it is. The narrower or thicker you go you'll definitely have to change your foiling style if you like to throw your foil around.

If there's no wind the board is under the water just above ankles, so standing and slogging is harder, but paddling it back is a breeze. I've tried it prone, can't duck dive it that's for sure.

It's not a light wind wing board for me, and TBH I wouldn't want a DW board for light wind as the extra length would be painful, probably more doable but light wind winging is really not for me anyway.

It's still early days with the new board, but it's fun, fast, agile and definitely doesn't feel big, but I now know that I much prefer narrower boards 100% and yes narrower boards do start easier!

Thanks for this writeup! Very exciting to hear all of this. My carver shows up January 2nd. Can't wait to get on it!

I should've added to my post, the conditions I've used it in is mainly sketchy 10-17kn with a 6m wing and a 980cm2 foil. I actually find myself now tacking more as my success rate (staying on foil with momentum) has improved considerably even in light winds. I've only used my favourite smaller foil 850cm2 once with it but the weed was too bad and made the session not very enjoyable at all.

One of the main reasons I bought it was to use a smaller wing 5m most of the time and hopefully my favourite smaller foil, but time will tell if this will be a reality.

I look forward to reading your feedback once your board arrives.

I discovered an unexpected negative to these boards being too thick. I was just in a shop that had the new Cabrinha. 5'8 x 19 x 85 liter. I struggled to pick it up. My hands did not reach around the rail. Too thick. Could not grip it.

Select to expand quote

DWF said..
I discovered an unexpected negative to these boards being too thick. I was just in a shop that had the new Cabrinha. 5'8 x 19 x 85 liter. I struggled to pick it up. My hands did not reach around the rail. Too thick. Could not grip it.

Yep, that's a thing for sure. I carry mine foil up and on my shoulder 100% of the time now. I can't imagine ever carrying it with the foil sticking out the side and board under my arm again

Select to expand quote

NordRoi said..

Sideshore said..
Hello. It's clear long narrow boards fly much earlier with smaller wings and foils. I understand the physics involved. However, once you are in the air how the DW board helps to keep you in the air with smaller foil and wing? Do you have to continue pumping all the time or is it enough the smaller drag of the board in the air to keep the flight without pumping? The bigger speed you take before taking off is enough to continue flying for ever? I don't understand this

We did a test.
5'8 x 29, 115L. 1400cm2 7.5 ar and a 8m
5'5 x 27, 90L 1800cm2 6.5 ar and a 5.5m
8' x 19 1/2 118L 1150cm2 mid to high ar and a 6m

they were all going in about the same breeze and they all required pumping to keep going in lulls and they were all grounded in the same low wind.

Thanks, very interesting. So in the first case the big hand wing does the work, in the second the big foil and in the third the length and narrowness of the board allows to have less foil and wing. Three options to get similar flying performance.

Another option. How will something like 6,7" x 26" 100 l would perform compared to these three? I don't see anything like this in the market. Has somebody had a custom board like this? It could be reasonable stable in choppy and early flying, something in the middle of every feature

The JP R-Winger is 23" wide not 26" wide for the 6' 95 litre version -- I just checked the stats for this board. And yes, it does look interesting. I've ordered one and should have it in the spring (April). I also have the 106 litre Armstrong DW board and I'll probably only keep one.

Select to expand quote

Taeyeony said..
Short answer, No long and narrow board won't help once flying. If you don't have enough power you will be stalled and drop back.

Long answer, in marginal condition. Your choice of light wind foil may change if you have DW board. I have North SF1080 as my light wind foil due to its ridiculously low stall speed. I also have North HA1050 which is more efficient with much thinner profile but harder to take off in very light wind due to its higher stall speed.

Last week I have a ****ty session with very light offshore wind (6-8kt with lulls and short 10kt gust). At first, I use SF1080; I can easily take off with the gust but it very hard to stay on foil in frequent lulls. So I decide to try HA1050 which is normally will be very hard or even not possible to pump up that if I use wider board.

I found tgat HA1050 works better in that condition. It need less power to keep going and it glides between the lulls much better than the SF.

Sideshore said..
Hello. It's clear long narrow boards fly much earlier with smaller wings and foils. I understand the physics involved. However, once you are in the air how the DW board helps to keep you in the air with smaller foil and wing? Do you have to continue pumping all the time or is it enough the smaller drag of the board in the air to keep the flight without pumping? The bigger speed you take before taking off is enough to continue flying for ever? I don't understand this

Very clear, thanks. So, in summary, to take full advantage of long and narrow boards it's better to use high aspect thin foils to keep the flight on the lulls, though it's a bit more difficult to take off.

I was using GoFoil GT2200 (2200cm2) for my lightwind setup (less than 10 kts, usually 6 to 8) easy to get up, very stable when up, can ride it to a near standstill, goes fast enough and turns pretty good. I recently acquired a near new (just released) GoFoil P1125. This foil is 122cm wide with a 12cm chord, super HA at 13.2
This is now my default lightwind foil. Due to the extremely thin chord and flat profile the drag is minimal and it doesn't take much wind to get moving and start to fly, once up it just glides and glides and is ridiculously easy to pump (this is a pump specific foil) so I can get through no wind lulls quite efficiently without expending a lot of energy. This wing also stays up at very low speeds so I can stay in foil in very light wind and I just need to give a few slow cadence board pumps to stay up. For such a wide wing (4 feet in 'Mercan) it turns really well and goes fast.
Perhaps try one of the "pump specific" foils in your brand's offering for your light wind winging ?