So I tried out a 5'0" x 25" 80L board today (me 88KG dry without gear on). Wind was gusting 20-28knots. When blowing I could knee start almost like on my 95L 5'4"x 26" board (same maker, so same shape). Pumping up to foil was a bit easier, but I had basically one spot to stand on the board, no moving my feet around. Turning and upwind was slightly better, but not life changing (I'm pretty good at going upwind for some unknown reason).
What sucked was when I got outside and had to knee start with 25+ gusts and a side chop that was 1-2 feet. The board was about 8" underwater and I had a tiny spot to kneel on, or else I went off the back, front or sides. Haven't fallen so much in a while. When I did get going, I had to deal with the side chop frequently burying the nose of the board.
Near the end of the session the wind dropped to 9 knots and less. There was no standing on the board and "paddling" in with my wingtips. No wind = no board riding. Had to either wait, or paddle in. Glad I had the waist leash on the wing, so I had both hands free.
Overall, it was fun, but work. I'm sore all over from all the falling. Arms got a workout from the paddling in. Think I'll stick to my floater board for now. My wife is buying the 80L so I can always ride it if I'm feeling adventurous or in need of a swim workout.
I live in the other way arround the world from you, but I find this tread so interesting!
We gave no good waves in the mediterranian sea but almost everybody that tried wingding has a tried kitefoiling before.
Would you thing wingding in high winds would be doable on a kitefoil board? Because I think they are a tad smaller comared to the prone ones.
Select to expand quoteBoemix said..
I live in the other way arround the world from you, but I find this tread so interesting!
We gave no good waves in the mediterranian sea but almost everybody that tried wingding has a tried kitefoiling before.
Would you thing wingding in high winds would be doable on a kitefoil board? Because I think they are a tad smaller comared to the prone ones.
In highwinds for an advanced winger it's doable, I've seen it down on Slinghsot Dwarfcraft 4'6" and even smaller. The smallest I have seen was a guy who looked about 160lbs on a 14L kitefoil board.
Select to expand quoteGoofcat said..
So I tried out a 5'0" x 25" 80L board today (me 88KG dry without gear on). Wind was gusting 20-28knots. When blowing I could knee start almost like on my 95L 5'4"x 26" board (same maker, so same shape). Pumping up to foil was a bit easier, but I had basically one spot to stand on the board, no moving my feet around. Turning and upwind was slightly better, but not life changing (I'm pretty good at going upwind for some unknown reason).
What sucked was when I got outside and had to knee start with 25+ gusts and a side chop that was 1-2 feet. The board was about 8" underwater and I had a tiny spot to kneel on, or else I went off the back, front or sides. Haven't fallen so much in a while. When I did get going, I had to deal with the side chop frequently burying the nose of the board.
Near the end of the session the wind dropped to 9 knots and less. There was no standing on the board and "paddling" in with my wingtips. No wind = no board riding. Had to either wait, or paddle in. Glad I had the waist leash on the wing, so I had both hands free.
Overall, it was fun, but work. I'm sore all over from all the falling. Arms got a workout from the paddling in. Think I'll stick to my floater board for now. My wife is buying the 80L so I can always ride it if I'm feeling adventurous or in need of a swim workout.
That is basically the approach I take. It works great when you are doing it on a calm lake like in the video. Not so easy when dealing with waves and knee high side chop in the ocean.
I wonder if this technique - at least grabbing the front handle and putting wing over shoulder and grabbing back handle with edge into the water - whilst you sink a say 40l sinker board might work - rather than sink - then having to balance whilst you pull the wing to you to basically get in the same starting position.
I find that is where it mostly goes wrong. Trying to get your hands on both handles whilst balancing the sinker board, especially in choppy ocean swell.
anyhow that's a summer project. Not game to muck around right now in winter.
Select to expand quoteGoofcat said..
Overall, it was fun, but work. I'm sore all over from all the falling. Arms got a workout from the paddling in. Think I'll stick to my floater board for now. My wife is buying the 80L so I can always ride it if I'm feeling adventurous or in need of a swim workout.
This is where I've ended up. I have a DIY 5' 70L experiment. Works great on windy days, but sucks when wind is light, chop is big, etc. Just too much work for the marginal benefit it provides, as I am not "ripping" to the point that the swing weight is noticable...and I doubt I ever will be.
I am now going for a 2 board quiver. 6.4 110L for sup foil and wing foil when wind is light or want an easy session. 5.4 90L as main wing board, which I expect/hope will be easily knee startable.
I'd love to try my surf foil prone with straps, but the work involved to figure it out is daunting...and the days that it would be doable to learn are gold for my current setup, not willing to give up the fun for the work. So, for me at least, the sub body weight sinker thing ain't gonna happen.
Well, after using the 98L (+ 25 my weight) for severals days, I exchanged it with my buddy for a 78L (I'm 75kg). I'm in a relatively flat water...but with really long lulls....inland wind...typical days are 5 to 20knts range. So I do have period that I need to be standing for over a min with the wing that don't flag.
In long lulls, I prefer the 98L.I lost some stability in lulls...swing weight is marginal better, 5'4 vs 5', so I would not give a + 1 to the smaller board, it's not that significant.But the two inches slimmer is so much better, I have way more control over the foil!! (25" vs 27")Touch down and recovery are better on the 78, but I would not give a + 1 not significant enough.Getting of the foil, for bigger quick lift foil, I think I gain since it pumps better.Smaller foils...needed a bit more boat speed before pumping it, I lost a bit in light wind.
Don't regret the choice, probably the best board is maybe in between but I would keep the 25" wide.
So please answer the following question:
I am 80kg and currently ride 85liters, 4'10 x 71cm. The board gives quite a ride in waves when knee starting, bouncing all over the place. I was thinking about 40 liters board when it's blowing 25+ knots, ie. when powered well, and then with a 40 liter board would sink and give stability while knee starting? Would this give me better stability or am I just dreaming :) ?
Thanks
Select to expand quoteomg said..
So please answer the following question:
I am 80kg and currently ride 85liters, 4'10 x 71cm. The board gives quite a ride in waves when knee starting, bouncing all over the place. I was thinking about 40 liters board when it's blowing 25+ knots, ie. when powered well, and then with a 40 liter board would sink and give stability while knee starting? Would this give me better stability or am I just dreaming :) ?
Thanks
40-45L is about the size of my surf foil. Sitting on that waiting for a wave, it is slightly under water like a surfboard. I haven't tried to get on my knees on it.....but I suspect it would be quite challenging.
I put straps on my 40L and tried the sinker start for about 10 minutes one day before giving up in complete frustration. So challenging (for me) to get up and over it. I have the impression that an even lower volume board may actually make it easier, as on a 30L you sink deeper and get more stability. You may be chest deep standing over the board, just then need enough wind to get you out of the hole. But maybe an expert can weigh in on that.
My prone is about the 40l mark and I weigh 75kg at moment. I've dropped 5kg. First few goes I struggled to sink it and keep it stable. Thought to myself this board has to much volume
But eventually I got the hang of it and now with every prone session I spend time with it sunk waiting for the next set. It is possible. I managed to sink start it on a wing at the end of summer for one session. But I'm not game in winter.
so the story is - it is possible. just takes time. It's fun to practise in the surf.
im still optimistic but realistic as well. Never know see what the next summer season brings.
. so I need to make a decision. Get a 75 litre ish wing board (or keep my 90 litre) and have the prone for those windier days. Not sure yet.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
My prone is about the 40l mark and I weigh 75kg at moment. I've dropped 5kg. First few goes I struggled to sink it and keep it stable. Thought to myself this board has to much volume
But eventually I got the hang of it and now with every prone session I spend time with it sunk waiting for the next set. It is possible. I managed to sink start it on a wing at the end of summer for one session. But I'm not game in winter.
so the story is - it is possible. just takes time. It's fun to practise in the surf.
im still optimistic but realistic as well. Never know see what the next summer season brings.
. so I need to make a decision. Get a 75 litre ish wing board (or keep my 90 litre) and have the prone for those windier days. Not sure yet.
Or make the 75kg board your kids light wind board and borrow it off him.
Select to expand quotemcrt said..Goofcat said..
So I tried out a 5'0" x 25" 80L board today (me 88KG dry without gear on). Wind was gusting 20-28knots. When blowing I could knee start almost like on my 95L 5'4"x 26" board (same maker, so same shape). Pumping up to foil was a bit easier, but I had basically one spot to stand on the board, no moving my feet around. Turning and upwind was slightly better, but not life changing (I'm pretty good at going upwind for some unknown reason).
What sucked was when I got outside and had to knee start with 25+ gusts and a side chop that was 1-2 feet. The board was about 8" underwater and I had a tiny spot to kneel on, or else I went off the back, front or sides. Haven't fallen so much in a while. When I did get going, I had to deal with the side chop frequently burying the nose of the board.
Near the end of the session the wind dropped to 9 knots and less. There was no standing on the board and "paddling" in with my wingtips. No wind = no board riding. Had to either wait, or paddle in. Glad I had the waist leash on the wing, so I had both hands free.
Overall, it was fun, but work. I'm sore all over from all the falling. Arms got a workout from the paddling in. Think I'll stick to my floater board for now. My wife is buying the 80L so I can always ride it if I'm feeling adventurous or in need of a swim workout.
This technique works really good on medium volume boards,way quicker and less tiring for me.
Have not tried it in my 40l prone yet.
This is what I do, but instead of leaving the wing in the water, the first order of priority is holding the wing by the front handle the whole time (not the flag handle).
This works really well on smaller boards but obviously also on bigger board, and much faster start.
This works especially well in wave and very choppy water where it's a very difficult to knee start.
I made this a few months ago.
Additional tip since that initial video is to do a quick push with the back hand when you're really to go, this will propel the wing into the air.
Hey your vid won't play above. Very interested too see what you mean / how to have the your hand on the front handle before you start. !! Sounds good.
bigtone my boy can sink start and get going in the lightest of winds / given the sail anyhow, the little bugger.
Select to expand quotedrlazone said..mcrt said..
This is what I do, but instead of leaving the wing in the water, the first order of priority is holding the wing by the front handle the whole time (not the flag handle).
This works really well on smaller boards but obviously also on bigger board, and much faster start.
This works especially well in wave and very choppy water where it's a very difficult to knee start.
I made this a few months ago.
Additional tip since that initial video is to do a quick push with the back hand when you're really to go, this will propel the wing into the air.
Cannot see your vid...
But i also start with front hand in sailing position,wing across deck,climb on board under it.
Grabbing the luff handle as in the vid i posted is not a necessary step imho.
Plus when i fall i try not to release the front handle unless really needed.So starting again becomes very quick and painless.
I have tidied up the link to drlazone's video. Hopefully you'll be able to see it.
Basically he's starting on a 65ltr/-25ltr board. He uses the front handle, not the flag handle. Basically he gets the wing out of the water and into half flying position before gets his knees on the board, gets the wing properly flying, then away he goes.
I have had a couple of practice sessions on a 40ltr kite foil board. I have not had a successful start yet but I learned a few things. I did one session with no wing. And one session in stupidly gusty winds with the wing.
As with most people the first few goes were hopeless, but with a bit of practice I found it surprisingly easy to get my feet on the board, the front foot in the strap and the board sunk and stable. As long as I stayed put I could have stayed on the board all day. As soon as I moved to lift the wing I would roll off.
Other videos have shown people leaning on the leading edge of the wing, which is what I tried. I had no luck at all getting the wing off the water. I couldn't work out how to effectively practice with repeated failures without ending up munched by the shore break or dragged into shallow water. I didn't want to risk gear or waste prime wing foiling conditions messing around in the shallows.
The get the wing partially flying trick looks promising. I can visualise how that might work and that's a big first step in learning things.
Select to expand quoteNot sure why my video link is still not working.
Here's on the FB link a few months back.
I've tried it on a friend's sinker board, got to stand up position but wasn't windy enough that day.
Otherwise done it pretty easily with my 80L Quatro in 35-40 knots, head high waves+chop.
www.facebook.com/groups/wing.surf/permalink/3785008094915937/
Oh so your method still only gets you to your knees if I watched the video correctly. Not really helpful for sinker prone volume type boards but yeh I suppose for weight to volume boards in crazy conditions it could help. Will try it.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Oh so your method still only gets you to your knees if I watched the video correctly. Not really helpful for sinker prone volume type boards but yeh I suppose for weight to volume boards in crazy conditions it could help. Will try it.
Gets you to your knees but with the wing held above you,no balancing act.
It is a huge step forward for mankind :)
So I'm in the market to replace my 74L (I'm 65Kgs) and looking at a 60L (-5L) or 50L (-15L). Is the consensus that a -15L would be better if the wind is strong enough and you master that start shown in the vid above?
Or should I just stick with a +10L size, which I've been pretty happy with, Track placement is just too far back for my liking/foil brand. The +10L can be a handful in super choppy conditions because it sits so much on top of the water, but I can do a traditional kneestart with above 80% success rate in those hectic type conditions.
One concern I have with the intermediate negative volume boards is the added water depth I'll need in my tidal zones.
Are the gains from loosing the 15L-25L worth the cons? Thanks in advance for any advice from those who've made similar decisions.
(I'm riding everything from flats, to waves, to downwinders, to windswell bump riding laps, looking to jump more with better board ergonomics)
Select to expand quoteMidAtlanticFoil said..
So I'm in the market to replace my 74L (I'm 65Kgs) and looking at a 60L (-5L) or 50L (-15L). Is the consensus that a -15L would be better if the wind is strong enough and you master that start shown in the vid above?
Or should I just stick with a +10L size, which I've been pretty happy with, Track placement is just too far back for my liking/foil brand. The +10L can be a handful in super choppy conditions because it sits so much on top of the water, but I can do a traditional kneestart with above 80% success rate in those hectic type conditions.
One concern I have with the intermediate negative volume boards is the added water depth I'll need in my tidal zones.
Are the gains from loosing the 15L-25L worth the cons? Thanks in advance for any advice from those who've made similar decisions.
(I'm riding everything from flats, to waves, to downwinders, to windswell bump riding laps, looking to jump more with better board ergonomics)
If you want to jump yes you will get benefits from a smaller board. Maybe even smaller than -15 would be better.
