Select to expand quoteeppo said..paulweller2 said..AndyLancelin said..
I am finding the MA1000 transfers a lot more vibration in turbulent waters than the HS1250 and I am using the 935HPM.. anyone else experiencing this...
More chord length should amount to more stability in whitewater. The MAs are closer to the HAs in terms of chord. The HSs and CFs are most stable in whitewater. You'll get used to it.
Yeh what Paul said. Those of us that have used the HAs a lot can't believe how much more stable the 1000 is in whitewater and breach control. But I actually went back to the 1250 for 3-4 months before the MA came out and I can't say I've noticed more vibration.
Theoretically I suppose it shouldn't be as stable in whitewater than the 1250. but that being said what you do get on the MA is consistent lift - even at high speeds. Add the breach control has really made the 1250 almost obsolete really, except if you were just starting out maybe. or just happy with what you got.
as some of us has said, if you haven't used HAs before there is still some adjustment to be made. but it won't take long.
Ok, it is really good . took a few sessions, 1250 anyone?
Reading through this thread again, it appears that some folks struggle a bit initially and then dials in the MA. And then enjoying it. And some just hop on and enjoy it immediately.
So as we've noticed, it's plug and play if you come from an HA foil, but takes some work if you come from an HS or CF foil. And Armie never said the MA was an easy or beginner foil family. Probably worth keeping in mind for those who are considering making the switch. I'd also add that if you come with HA experience, no shimming is required. As for mast position, after some time on the water with the HP mast/MA foils combination, it also appears that most folks are back to where they were with the old A+ masts/non-MA foils too.
Looking at the Armstrong website, they position all the MA foils for "intermediate - advanced" winging.
Sometimes you can believe how the marketing department positions a product!
Select to expand quoteAndyLancelin said..
I am finding the MA1000 transfers a lot more vibration in turbulent waters than the HS1250 and I am using the 935HPM.. anyone else experiencing this...
By the way, I also notice a thrumming feeling/sensation when in whitewater with the MA800. But it does not affect the performance, lift, predictability etc. The first time I noticed it, I was a bit suspicious, but now I expect it and ignore it.
The only time this happens is in whitewater.
Yeh true above.
I'm back to where I was and in fact as I start shimming to unlock speed and glide I am actually creeping even further forward. The MA doesn't give you any weird sudden uplift jolts in turbulent water and even more importantly when going quicker (cranking downwind on a swell/wave and also turning hard - and also in whitewater).
So you can it seems push it further and further forward if you so wish. I found both the HS and the Ha did this - especially the HA and for some reason the Hs 1050 . weird power lift spikes .
also when pumping on the prone it doesn't get "boaty" and weird when pushing it forward like the HA.
Of course this is the related to the new mast performance as well.
yeh there is some humming through whitewater - again everything about this wing is so dead smack in between the Hs and the HA. It's uncanny actually. As I said way back, old time armie riders can feel all the other wings in the MA at certain times and in certain conditions. Must have been some serious R and D and proto riding behind it.
I can't even imagine what a new gen HA wing will look and feel like. I'd imagine more squared / rounded tips, slightly deeper chords, with some convex voodo chucked in 
Has anyone tried dock starting with the MA1200? I wonder if the additional glide compared to HS would make it a good option as opposed to getting one of the huge HA foils
I had a second session on the MA800 today in 10-14knots with waist to chest high swells (not breaking) that had some steep peaks at points to play around with hard banking.
I really love how hard you can push this foil without any seeming risk of crazy blow out. By far its strength (to me) is how it handles tight surfy turns and remains very pitch stable throughout. I also found that I was able to get a little more glide out of it today by riding it higher. With the 725 you can bury the foil a bit and still have decent glide. I also ran through a patch of turbulent white water today and felt pretty solid (some of the warble that Arthur mentioned, but like he said, very manageable). There's a lot to like about this foil.
What remains challenging... No question about it, the 800 takes more wind than the 725 to get on foil. I'd place it somewhere between the 525 and 725 in terms of what it needs wind-wise. Once up, it has a very low stall speed. I've managed to reach a point with the 725 where I can get on foil with the help of a chop in 10-12 knots. The 800 is more in the 12-14 knot "with help from chop" range for me (at 75kg +/-) and even there its fairly technical as far as light wind foil starts go. The main barrier is the perceived drag at the low end. The 725 has near zero drag so it gets moving in lighter wind, the 800 needs a bigger push to get to its release, but once there it comes up very easily.
I'm still waiting for a decent wave day to see how much this can handle, but I'll say this, the "fun" factor of this wing is really solid, so much so its making me think I might keep it and my 725. Makes me feel like a better rider because of the stability. If I were to stick with MA foils, I would have to add a 1000 to cover the lighter days. I need to find someone on Oahu who will let me try theirs, lol.
Select to expand quoteOahuwaterwalker said..
I had a second session on the MA800 today in 10-14knots with waist to chest high swells (not breaking) that had some steep peaks at points to play around with hard banking.
I really love how hard you can push this foil without any seeming risk of crazy blow out. By far its strength (to me) is how it handles tight surfy turns and remains very pitch stable throughout. I also found that I was able to get a little more glide out of it today by riding it higher. With the 725 you can bury the foil a bit and still have decent glide. I also ran through a patch of turbulent white water today and felt pretty solid (some of the warble that Arthur mentioned, but like he said, very manageable). There's a lot to like about this foil.
What remains challenging... No question about it, the 800 takes more wind than the 725 to get on foil. I'd place it somewhere between the 525 and 725 in terms of what it needs wind-wise. Once up, it has a very low stall speed. I've managed to reach a point with the 725 where I can get on foil with the help of a chop in 10-12 knots. The 800 is more in the 12-14 knot "with help from chop" range for me (at 75kg +/-) and even there its fairly technical as far as light wind foil starts go. The main barrier is the perceived drag at the low end. The 725 has near zero drag so it gets moving in lighter wind, the 800 needs a bigger push to get to its release, but once there it comes up very easily.
I'm still waiting for a decent wave day to see how much this can handle, but I'll say this, the "fun" factor of this wing is really solid, so much so its making me think I might keep it and my 725. Makes me feel like a better rider because of the stability. If I were to stick with MA foils, I would have to add a 1000 to cover the lighter days. I need to find someone on Oahu who will let me try theirs, lol.
You tried shimming up yet? I've noticed a good alincrease in speed and glide just with a blue. Gonna try red next.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..Oahuwaterwalker said..
I had a second session on the MA800 today in 10-14knots with waist to chest high swells (not breaking) that had some steep peaks at points to play around with hard banking.
I really love how hard you can push this foil without any seeming risk of crazy blow out. By far its strength (to me) is how it handles tight surfy turns and remains very pitch stable throughout. I also found that I was able to get a little more glide out of it today by riding it higher. With the 725 you can bury the foil a bit and still have decent glide. I also ran through a patch of turbulent white water today and felt pretty solid (some of the warble that Arthur mentioned, but like he said, very manageable). There's a lot to like about this foil.
What remains challenging... No question about it, the 800 takes more wind than the 725 to get on foil. I'd place it somewhere between the 525 and 725 in terms of what it needs wind-wise. Once up, it has a very low stall speed. I've managed to reach a point with the 725 where I can get on foil with the help of a chop in 10-12 knots. The 800 is more in the 12-14 knot "with help from chop" range for me (at 75kg +/-) and even there its fairly technical as far as light wind foil starts go. The main barrier is the perceived drag at the low end. The 725 has near zero drag so it gets moving in lighter wind, the 800 needs a bigger push to get to its release, but once there it comes up very easily.
I'm still waiting for a decent wave day to see how much this can handle, but I'll say this, the "fun" factor of this wing is really solid, so much so its making me think I might keep it and my 725. Makes me feel like a better rider because of the stability. If I were to stick with MA foils, I would have to add a 1000 to cover the lighter days. I need to find someone on Oahu who will let me try theirs, lol.
You tried shimming up yet? I've noticed a good alincrease in speed and glide just with a blue. Gonna try red next.
not yet but will definitely try next time!
you guys are making me spend too much money. I was trying to get a gift receipt that did not show prices.
Anyways, since there was talk comparing the 1550 v2 and the 1225. Here are a few pics to make other people's wallets lighter like mine.
Select to expand quoteninjatuna said..
you guys are making me spend too much money. I was trying to get a gift receipt that did not show prices.
I'm in the same boat as you! Because of @eppo and @arthuralston I just bought a 795 mast and all three MA's. my wallet has turned to ashes.
In all seriousness I am very grateful for those two and everyone else's input on this forum because I live in a place that doesn't have any demo gear available and reliable feedback like theirs helps so much in my purchase decisions.
cheers to new gear that puts a smile on our faces!
I'm secretly squirrelling away money for a 1225. Bit here a bit there - my missus would let me anyway but it's kind of fun then the next mission is an 800. Cue in mission impossible music.
Anyhow us desperate armie riders have waited long enough for something that at least competes with the other brands in this niche of the market. Been a patient long haul man.
Select to expand quoteninjatuna said..
you guys are making me spend too much money. I was trying to get a gift receipt that did not show prices.
Anyways, since there was talk comparing the 1550 v2 and the 1225. Here are a few pics to make other people's wallets lighter like mine.
Looking forward to hearing about the differences between the 1550 and 1225.
The 1225 looks like a good light wind winging replacement for the 1550 for the middle weights.
Select to expand quoteWingnutz said..ninjatuna said..
you guys are making me spend too much money. I was trying to get a gift receipt that did not show prices.
Anyways, since there was talk comparing the 1550 v2 and the 1225. Here are a few pics to make other people's wallets lighter like mine.
Looking forward to hearing about the differences between the 1550 and 1225.
The 1225 looks like a good light wind winging replacement for the 1550 for the middle weights.
Well from a mate of mine who only used the 1550 now the 1225. Basically he said everything is better. So all aspect. However he is having trouble with the nose dipping on him down waves / swell. He is using the A plus 85 mast. We've shimmed a bit to the negative and it has helped. But like a lot of crew he is looking to shim the mast with a shim mast plate.
so normally rides at 5 on a 99L FG - he is at 9
at the moment. So thought this is worth mentioning.
od course the new mast may fix this issue of course.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..Wingnutz said..ninjatuna said..
you guys are making me spend too much money. I was trying to get a gift receipt that did not show prices.
Anyways, since there was talk comparing the 1550 v2 and the 1225. Here are a few pics to make other people's wallets lighter like mine.
Looking forward to hearing about the differences between the 1550 and 1225.
The 1225 looks like a good light wind winging replacement for the 1550 for the middle weights.
Well from a mate of mine who only used the 1550 now the 1225. Basically he said everything is better. So all aspect. However he is having trouble with the nose dipping on him down waves / swell. He is using the A plus 85 mast. We've shimmed a bit to the negative and it has helped. But like a lot of crew he is looking to shim the mast with a shim mast plate.
so normally rides at 5 on a 99L FG - he is at 9
at the moment. So thought this is worth mentioning.
!
od course the new mast may fix this issue of course.
Hello everyone.
Thank you very much for all the experiences you shared!!!
It sounds like there are compatibility issues (angles) between the new MA foils and the "old" A+ mast (I ride the A+85). This would be an argument against the new MA series for me. Any experiences here?
i'm riding the old mast A+ 85 with the MA1225. haven't noticed any compatibility problems.
edit: some people are extremely technical about all the nuances of every setup. i'm not. riding the ma1225 IS a different feel, but i would hardly call them incompatible.
Select to expand quotebeached57 said..
i'm riding the old mast A+ 85 with the MA1225. haven't noticed any compatibility problems.
edit: some people are extremely technical about all the nuances of every setup. i'm not. riding the ma1225 IS a different feel, but i would hardly call them incompatible.
that's right, some people are extremely technical about all the nuances of every setup
Select to expand quoteeppo said..Wingnutz said..ninjatuna said..
you guys are making me spend too much money. I was trying to get a gift receipt that did not show prices.
Anyways, since there was talk comparing the 1550 v2 and the 1225. Here are a few pics to make other people's wallets lighter like mine.
Looking forward to hearing about the differences between the 1550 and 1225.
The 1225 looks like a good light wind winging replacement for the 1550 for the middle weights.
Well from a mate of mine who only used the 1550 now the 1225. Basically he said everything is better. So all aspect. However he is having trouble with the nose dipping on him down waves / swell. He is using the A plus 85 mast. We've shimmed a bit to the negative and it has helped. But like a lot of crew he is looking to shim the mast with a shim mast plate.
so normally rides at 5 on a 99L FG - he is at 9
at the moment. So thought this is worth mentioning.
od course the new mast may fix this issue of course.
Not just the ma if he tried a ha he would also notice it rides nose down at speed. this is why they have changed the mast angle but you can shim the a+ mast with a 1 degree base plate shim and it works great. Well did for me on the ha925 ??
Select to expand quoteWingOut said..beached57 said..
i'm riding the old mast A+ 85 with the MA1225. haven't noticed any compatibility problems.
edit: some people are extremely technical about all the nuances of every setup. i'm not. riding the ma1225 IS a different feel, but i would hardly call them incompatible.
that's right, some people are extremely technical about all the nuances of every setup
But sometimes small things have a huge meaning .
Select to expand quoteleepasty said..eppo said..Wingnutz said..ninjatuna said..
you guys are making me spend too much money. I was trying to get a gift receipt that did not show prices.
Anyways, since there was talk comparing the 1550 v2 and the 1225. Here are a few pics to make other people's wallets lighter like mine.
Looking forward to hearing about the differences between the 1550 and 1225.
The 1225 looks like a good light wind winging replacement for the 1550 for the middle weights.
Well from a mate of mine who only used the 1550 now the 1225. Basically he said everything is better. So all aspect. However he is having trouble with the nose dipping on him down waves / swell. He is using the A plus 85 mast. We've shimmed a bit to the negative and it has helped. But like a lot of crew he is looking to shim the mast with a shim mast plate.
so normally rides at 5 on a 99L FG - he is at 9
at the moment. So thought this is worth mentioning.
od course the new mast may fix this issue of course.
Not just the ma if he tried a ha he would also notice it rides nose down at speed. this is why they have changed the mast angle but you can shim the a+ mast with a 1 degree base plate shim and it works great. Well did for me on the ha925 ??
Exadtly I was using a mast shim plate with my old mast with the HAs and even the HS wings in the end. Honestly did I really need it - not really. Did it help a little - suppose so. Ride at speed, hit waves and swell at an angles instead of going straight down them (as you should), it ain't really an issue I think. Mast shims are cheap as chips.
Told you armie is a frother .. although he was using sandpaper and not a rock to sand prototypes when over here ...
Fiiiinally got to session the 1000 and 800 (briefly). After wading 200 yards out yesterday only for the wind to shut off, the repeat scenario happened today. Went back and rigged the 7M glide and headed back out hoping for the best. Lucky my a gust came and I was off. Wind steadily increased to where I wish I had my 5M still rigged. 795 mast, 50 fuse, 195 tail with red shim. 60L FG at 6.
The conditions were boring with new light wind and no swell so I was left to my own devices. S turns on the 1000 are sublime, like as much fun as the 725 (maybe). Wings out no problem with impressive downwind roll off the top turn. So loose and controlled at the same time. Tacks I kept poking the upwind wingtip out and coming down briefly. No scary tacos despite the bad technique fumbling the big 7M with mittens. Finally sorted the tacks and started getting them. Upwind angles were really impressive, especially with the wingman chest harness letting me hike out pretty far. After a few tacks upwind I sent a long broad reach back to the launch averaging 20 mph over 500M and topping out at 20.9 mph. A bit of pitchieness overrunning the small chop lines and 50 fuse with neutral tail but really fun overall.
Made it to the beach and remembered the 800 after I had deflated the 7M. Reinflated the 5M and put on the 800 as the wind looked to be getting close to 18 knts. As soon as I hit the water it dropped off entirely. Waited for a second and saw a minor gust coming down so I tried a toeside start heading away from shore. Surprisingly I got up pretty easy and had me thinking the 725 would have been more difficult all things the same. No trembling at the takeoff holding off a stall, just several healthy pumps with the board bouncing off the water (a fopaux with the HAs). The gust disappeared and I was left pumping away from the coast pretty far out. Here is where I was surprised. I was able to fully pump through a pretty tight gybe and gain enough speed to stay up heading back to link up the next gust. The new mast is incredible for allowing this and the new wing had impressive low end. Old mast I would often times fumble the pumping tighter arc turns/gybes due to the flex. Managed to stay up for 3 or 4 tacks. Really impressed with the fluid looseness of this wing. Like more stoked than the idea of riding it. To me it felt a lot like the 725, but with more of a 4-wheel drive feel, while the 725 is a bit more of front wheel drive. I hit 21.6 in a gust into a clean race gybe, not nearly lit, which is close to my 22.4 max on the 725! Cannot wait to get these wings in fun conditions.
sorry for the long post. Unwinding after a long week with a brewskis at the pub waiting on pizza. Cheers frothers!
1st wing session on 935 mast and MA1225. 50 fuse, 195 tail, red shim, 9-13 knots, 5M KT wing, 200 pound rider, 72L KT, 4' wind swell. 30 min session, so very brief impressions. Wind was instantly backing as I hit the water sadly, so my hopes were low that I'd even get going. Shlogged for a long while until a steep chop coincided with a gust and I was off! Instantly impressed with the stability of the whole rig. Hit 21 knots top speed down a nice swell. Upwind angle is phenomenal. 1225 feels easy to ride and turns well enough from what I could tell in marginal conditions. Didn't try to blow the tips to see how well the 1225 would recover as I wasn't sure I'd get going again if I fell. Eventually got backwinded by apparent wind jibing on a swell and fell. Not even enough wind to hold the wing up. So over all really impressed by the light wind ability of this foil as well as the glide. Turning and top end speed will be assessed in better conditions but initial impressions are very good. The mast is next level for sure over the previous A+85 and glad I have a 935 for winging. Stoked!
Hi
have someone ever tried the MA wings for kiting? If so, how was it? What's your weight and feedback?
thanks
Select to expand quoteWingOut said..
two new stabilizers are announced:
205 cm2 and 235 cm2!
Announced where please?
Select to expand quotepatronus said..WingOut said..
two new stabilizers are announced:
205 cm2 and 235 cm2!
Announced where please?
In our local surfshop (official preorder) The 235 is an optimised 232, the 205 could be an optimised 195 .
Oskar on a prototype stabiliser and the MA800. Interestingly on the 85 cm mast.
www.instagram.com/reel/CnOLiKRAy7M/?igshid=YWJhMjlhZTc=
Select to expand quoteArthurAlston said..
Oskar on a prototype stabiliser and the MA800. Interestingly on the 85 cm mast.
www.instagram.com/reel/CnOLiKRAy7M/?igshid=YWJhMjlhZTc=
Hi Arthur 
the use of the 85 mast is an exciting observation .
Select to expand quoteVicente said..
Hi
have someone ever tried the MA wings for kiting? If so, how was it? What's your weight and feedback?
thanks
yes, but only quickly. was on ma1225 and wind was light and gusty (8-14 mph), with 8m Peak kite. it all felt very bad as the foil kept dropping in the lulls. switched back to my CF1200 and was much better. won't be using the ma1225 for kiting. i'm sure with better conditions and more practice, it could go better...but unless i'm in an exploratory mood, i'll stick with the CFs for kiting.
Select to expand quotebeached57 said..Vicente said..
Hi
have someone ever tried the MA wings for kiting? If so, how was it? What's your weight and feedback?
thanks
yes, but only quickly. was on ma1225 and wind was light and gusty (8-14 mph), with 8m Peak kite. it all felt very bad as the foil kept dropping in the lulls. switched back to my CF1200 and was much better. won't be using the ma1225 for kiting. i'm sure with better conditions and more practice, it could go better...but unless i'm in an exploratory mood, i'll stick with the CFs for kiting.
Thanks for your answer.
Have your ever tried any other wing with a larger AR prior to this experience with the MA1225? Was the problem the high stall speed? If I you don't mind in telling me, what's your weight?
sorry for many questions but I am considering to buy a MA1225 as a single wing for prone surfing and kiting.
