Hi all,
very interesting thread for me at this time.
My '12 Carbon Art have been changed a lot re. '11 models (despite look very close), so need some deep fin setup change. The newer boards are much more 'flighty' and need fins that stick them to the water; while older ones were a bit sticky and needed fins with good lift.
Tectonics Talon seem to work nice on my '12 SL66 (while lacked some lift on '11 model): I recently used a 36 with 7.0 sail and was just great, easy planing, powerful, super controllable.
On my older SL58's ('08, '10, '11) and SL55 ('09) I always used Tectonics Falcon in 32, 34 or 36 sizes (depending on board model year and sail size); but now on my '12 SL58 even the 32 seems providing too much lift even when used with a 7.0! The board feels just too flighty with those fins and I am looking for a replacement. Maybe some one has experience to share about the Vector Rockit vs. EX vs. Tectonics Falcon on smallish boards and 6.0 to 7.0 sails?
Thank you,
Giorgio
The EX vector will provide maximum control,the rockit not quite as smooth a fin and slower in the gusts for me anyway.
I had a problem with my 5kg 54cm wide Anders slalom board providing too much lift even with a 25cm carbon fin. I tried the 30cm EX fin and problem immediately solved,despite being 5cm longer.
Today and yesterday very strong conditions,around 20-40knots.
Was on i87 and 5m. The 32 EX is awesome on this board,but had to return this fin so used my 30cm instead which i found was a little small unless wind hit high 20's.
I also tried the 29cm techtonic falcon on the same day,this fin was too small for the board but this fin is similiar in feel to the EX Vector.
The 32cm EX is the best fin i have ever tried especially above 20knots,so this and the 34cm would be best choice i think.
The 34cm carbon volt is very fast but has much stiffer feel,especially in choppy conditions! For a carbon fin it's quite a smooth feel compared to a more upright carbon fin but still much harsher feel compared to G10. The lift of this fin is low so control is still good but i dislike the harsh/stiff feel of carbon.
Hi petermac33,
thank you!!!
Useful report. Only things are getting more complicated day by day...
Yesterday we had another unexpected heavy wind session, with Maestrale ranging probably from 18 to 30. A friend of mine gave me a Talon 32 to test and it worked pretty nice on my SL58, much better than the 32 Falcon as the board was more stable and easier to control. Not perfect yet, but one step ahead.
I suspect that the difference that counts is in stiffness: as the Talons are stiffer than both my Sonntag SL-P (that I used on the SL66) and my Falcons (on the SL58). In both cases, turning to Talons made things better.
So probably I should choose the stiffest among them all: EX, Rockit, Goldwing, Talon, Volt, else ... one friend of mine told me that both (G-10) EX and Rockit are soft fins; another one says it depends on what you ask for (but this means custom fins $$$!). I asked Jeff Fagerholm and he says maybe the Vulcan would work! What is the Vulcan? It seems it is Vector Fin's latest offer for small boards and high wind ... oh well. I don't dare to ask if anyone ever tested one ...
I have 2 ex's that Jasper recommended a 28 and 30 I will give them a run the next big winds we have and provide comments
never been a big fan of stiff fins myself they can tend to let go when least expected in my experience.
but each to their own I say
Just had a real eye-opening exprience!
A racer I often meet at my spot gave me two nice carbon Rockit fins to test: a 31 and a 35.
Yesterday I went to the beach, Southerly wind just maybe 15° from the left; it had been blowing SW earlier and still there were waves from that direction. I rigged my 7.0 TR-8 and fit a 36 Talon under Carbon Art SL66. Had troubles in keeping the board down, expecially on port tack which was cross- to downwind and going against the waves. I had to sheet out and not use the harness for about 50% of the time on that tack, probably the wind was stronger than expected, by sure water was rough. So I decided to give the Rockit a go. Changed fin and went out again; wind was picking up, there were about 1 meter waves breaking on the shallows, most people out on FSW or wave boards, sails from 5.0 up were full. Wow the carbon Rockit is something!!! Now the board was trimmed down, fast but easy, despite wind was probably blowing 20 to 25, I had no problem at all going against the swell, looking for gusts to accellerate, and pushing it hard downwind and fast on the starboard tack. Total control. Board very free and responsive, tame but not asleep, not directional at all, almost inviting to use the waves to do sharper jibes, inviting to make manouvers on them too ... I entered the water fearing some shame because of my control problems in front of people attending the RRD dealer's meeting and team riders demoing new RRD stuff; went out of the water ashamed to have sailed full blast in front of them on 'alien' kit.
I am in love with that fin and looking forward to test the 31 with my SL58 and 6.3.
I got to compare the 32cm EX few days ago to an upright 32cm techtonics in consistent 18/22 knots. I was on i87/5.6m code red and 32 ex. Friend was using same board the I87/6.2m Reflex3 and 32cm upright Techtonic.
When we swapped boards i had serious problems controlling the lift of the upright Techtonic. The board kept see-sawing up and down constantly! And felt like had much more drag too.I hated it,but may have been ok in lighter wind.
When i looked across my friend could hardly sail my board,was all over the place,struggling to trim the board and especially struggling to get upwind.
What i learned is the EX provides very little lift. If you don't sail off the back foot and rail the board up constantly this fin will not work good.
These raked back soft fins take a lot of time to adjust to and better to try before you buy.Could be an expensive mistake.
We also swapped sails and i found the i87 works better with a 5.6m than a 6.2m. The 6.2m felt so heavy in comparison and kept the board sitting flatter in the water which i don't like. The 5.6m felt faster for topend.
The greatest lesson in my view is that it's a matter of not only rig/ board/fin coupling, but feet too come in the equation.
Probbly there is no easy solution, but rather each one has to test everything by himself. Apart from some rough general guidance, of course.
I have both carbon 28 and 30 EX that are wonderful.
I also have a g-10 version of a couple newer models, one the 34 Alpha is super lifty and really fast (not for rough conditions) and a very nice 34 fin named either the VX or Vulcan which has less lift and is really good for the roughest conditions.
Hi Fred46,
this is very interesting as there is very little info around regarding the Alpha and VX.
May you please give us a brief description of how the fins are (outline, thickness, position of foil wide point), maybe take a pic of both fins side by side? I have seen pics of both, but I don't know which sizes were, so I can't really understand how they compare.
Maybe you can help about how the VX compares to the Rockit (carbon or G-10) in similar sizes?
Thanks a lot!
I think if your experience is there the Rocket is very fast comfortable and has generally for it's size more lift and pointing ability overall. The ex is more like a free ride fin but very board type friendly
I bought a 36cm EX fin,tried it on my 68cm wide Patrik board with 6.3m but too small for board. That said,it felt real fast and incredibly smooth particularly off the wind.
This fin is super soft/flexible and raked back,get the feeling in a narrower board of around 64cm it could be awesome.
Hi Tassierocks,
at last I sailed a few times with my carbon Rockit 31. I bought it used and it is a few years old, I think newer ones to have a thicker foil. As expected it works well with my 6.3 TR-9, less expected also very good with 7.0, plenty of power (once at speed) and very good upwind. Keeps my '12 CA SL58 easier than my Tectonics Falcon's do.
Hi Tassierocks!
I have the EX 32 i used one time with CA 62 and a 6.6 KA Koncept and loved this combo the fin is really fast.
I normally use the Volt and love these fins, need to be powered up the volts never spin on me super fast.
Sorry to high jack the thread but anyone here know what these Vectors are ?
Thanks for any help .
Hi Dartboy
I made a reply on the same topic here:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Vector-Fins-ID/
I just got a canefire 42 and used it for the first time, very sweet feels quick and superb upwind. Compared to a venom more lift and better upwind, not surprising as more akin to the sting. Top speed comparison will be interesting
Great to read through the feedback and interesting to hear the different opinions on the Vector fins.
I though it would be helpful to post a photo that shows the difference on the fins mentioned in this thread (Vector Rockit, Canefire, EX and Volt) and shortly "sum up" on what the different design delivers / or what we recommend them for.
Rockit: This is one of longest running Vector designs. Simple outline that deliver a "all - round" performance for all conditions. Excellent control and top end speed as pointed out by other riders on this forum thread. Will fit most boards. Modern as old style.
We mostly recommend 28cm - 38cm sizes.
Canefire: Got a lot of development when the boards started to get wider and shorter. The straight leading edge and positive curved trailing edge together with the slightly wider tip section, making sure to deliver a lifty fin, that will get the wider tail boards up and going. Great for flatter to small choppy water conditions. Great on the upwind performance.
We mostly recommend 34cm - 46cm.
EX: This is the fins with the most control. It will keep the nose of the board down. Will work great for lighter riders as well or sailors that want to keep the board very flat and sailing mostly down wind. The fin is more swept back for control. Also "older style" slalom boards with a narrower tail will like those fins.
We mostly recommend 28cm -36cm sizes.
Volt: This is our newer design developed for PWA slalom. We recommend all sizes from 28cm - 48cm. The wider base section will deliver acceleration and grip. The slightly swept back profile will keep you board in control at top speed. Concave in the trailing edge makes them very slippery through the water. For racing, acceleration, jibing, top end speed and control, those fins are a winner.
We recommend all sizes from 28cm - 48cm. Sizes from 40cm and up is a tuned up design that deliver stiffness comparable with some carbon fins.
The above is a guide line. Factors as sailor level, boards, sails, rider weight / size and sailing conditions all plays in when choosing the right fin.
Select to expand quotegeoITA said..
Hi Tassierocks,
at last I sailed a few times with my carbon Rockit 31. I bought it used and it is a few years old, I think newer ones to have a thicker foil. As expected it works well with my 6.3 TR-9, less expected also very good with 7.0, plenty of power (once at speed) and very good upwind. Keeps my '12 CA SL58 easier than my Tectonics Falcon's do.
Hi Geo! What fin are you using with your Carbon Arts? I been using the EX 32 Carbon with 62 and 55, and 6.3 TR and 6,6 Koncept, the more i use this fin the more i like it. I use the Volts most the the time so far is my favorite fin for an open ocean sailing when fully powered.
Jesper, thanks a lot for giving us a guidance! Now you have to complete it of course, and write down something about the VX, the Alpha and the carbon variants ...
DaniS, I am still testing and trying with fins!
Right now it is:
Vector carbon Rockit with my '12 SL58 and both 6.3 and 7.0 (also tested the Falcon 32, Talon 34, Deboichet UW 30 and a shiny new Lockwood 31, but none provides the control I get from the Rockit);
with '12 SL66 and 7.0 in higher winds/messy sea it's definitely the carbon Rockit 35 (my favourite combo by far), then the Talon 36 in softer conditions;
same board with 7.6 gets the carbon Rockit 37 when it's fully powered, otherwise the Talon 38/40, or a Sonntag SL-P 40 when I need more upwind in lighter winds and a soft damped ride;
as for the '12 SL78 ... that's tough, and I don't have enough experience with the big board to give any advice; anyhow, Talon 42 seems OK with the 7.6 and higher winds, then the Sonntag SL-P 43 with 7.6 and 8.4 but lacks of acceleration; in lighter winds it's the SL-P 46, and I still have to test my ultra soft flexy Vector carbon Canefire 46 in even lighter conditions (proved super powerful on older SL75, but saturated too early at speed and lifted too much the windward rail - no control).
I would love to test a carbon EX with the SL58, and some Volts in medium winds, and a 'normal' Canefire in 43 - 44 with the SL78, too.
Hi Geo ITA
Sorry I can't comment on the VX and Alpha. We don't carry those models in Australia. Not to say they are bad,, (as any fins Jeff Fagerholm / designer make is pretty awesome)
But our focus is on the current proven Vector fin range that cover 100% of all needs for riders here and we also want to make it "more simple" to choose or advice on the right fin for any riders and not have "too many" models.
We prefer to give personal advice to make sure to provide the right model and make the costumer happy. Important here is sailing conditions, boards / rigs, level of sailors, sailor weight and sailing style. With all the feedback from other costumers and personal testing, we make sure to "pin point" the choices better.
For the Carbon we currently only carry stock in the Volt model in 28cm - 50cm (Australia). But you can get pretty much any model in carbon if you want.
I know this might not exactly be the answers you where after :)
PS: Great to read all the valuable feedback on the fins through this thread,,
Hi Jesper,
ooops sorry for going a bit too much in depth with my questions! I understand your point and appreciate it: protos are protos, proven designs have reliable performances for all, and it's much better not to make exeriments with the customers. And, after comparing the 'old' Rockit design vs. some of the newest ones from the competition, I have to admit that quite often it's just marketing. I was sold on the Talon's (great fins, anyhow) thinking their 40% max thickness position made them very 'modern', but I saw the newer T-43's have it gone back to about 30% ... same as in the Rockit's ...
If anyone requires Weed fins I can recommend the Vector Slalom Weedy. I bought a couple off Jesper recently and just got to use the 30cm Slalom Weedy the other day in my Falcon 99 with a KA Race 7.1. A sweet but powerful fin, which was also fast in the gusty conditions. I was able to drop 4cm on the length of my previous weedy and still have the same power.......and the windward rail never dropped, not even when moving between gusts. The advantage of being able to go a bit shorter is that I can get my bigger gear into shallower and flatter water at my local speed run. I have only used the 30cm Slalom Weedy once, but I was so impressed. When I have had a couple of more runs I will post a comprehensive review in a new thread.
I have also just purchased off Jesper a full set of Vector Speed Weed from 21-27 which I will use in my Falcon 51 and 79. They look so fast, I am fanging to give them a run. I just need the wind to co-operate and I will run a thread on those as well. Happy sailing.
I have just go a quiver of fins from Jesper, the finish is second to none. I can not wait to get a sail on them. Thanks Jesper.
Select to expand quoteTASSIEROCKS said..
Those Rockets will be Soooooo nice
Those on the picture is the Vector Volt model 48, 40, 36, 34, 32, 30 and a EX 30 - (for really windy conditions).
40 and 48 is the updated and stiffer G10 design called Volt II.
As the 3 bigger fins was the Volt model to start out with for Jas, I decided to advice the 3 smaller fins to be Volt as well.
Just made more sense to keep the feeling of the ride / trim and power the same.
Rockit would however not have disappoint in the 30-38cm range.(like you mentioned Russ)
The feedback I get from both Volt and Rockit in the smaller sizes is quite similar..
Volt might have a little more power / drive from the wider base section.
You will notice that there is 2 x 30cm fins!. But the EX 30 has soo much control and probably more equal to a 28cm Volt.
