Forums > Windsurfing Gear Reviews

Evo 4 cam rotation

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Created by petermac33 > 9 months ago, 30 Mar 2013
petermac33
WA, 6415 posts
7 Apr 2013 12:59AM
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I prefer using negative outhaul on all points of sail.

For one i can't be bothered with the hassle and added weight of adjustable outhaul.

Also,i like to use a smaller sail than is necessary for comfort more than performance. I dislike the feel of 7m or larger size sails,they ALL feel heavy to me.

Using a smaller sail,i use the high clew eyelet,use max negative outhaul and a bit less downhaul,all helps to power up the sail,though nothing will make up for that extra half a metre of sail for pure performance.

Reckon it's a bit of a myth that bagging the sail out is not good for upwind. If the wind is the consistent,yes a bit of positive can help. On the river, conditions are so on/off that you need the power in the lulls to get upwind.

Adding extra downhaul than is needed results in too much spilling of the wind,killing upwind performance hugely.

Wood Duck
157 posts
7 Apr 2013 5:48AM
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petermac33 said...
I prefer using negative outhaul on all points of sail.

For one i can't be bothered with the hassle and added weight of adjustable outhaul.

Also,i like to use a smaller sail than is necessary for comfort more than performance. I dislike the feel of 7m or larger size sails,they ALL feel heavy to me.

Using a smaller sail,i use the high clew eyelet,use max negative outhaul and a bit less downhaul,all helps to power up the sail,though nothing will make up for that extra half a metre of sail for pure performance.

Reckon it's a bit of a myth that bagging the sail out is not good for upwind. If the wind is the consistent,yes a bit of positive can help. On the river, conditions are so on/off that you need the power in the lulls to get upwind.

Adding extra downhaul than is needed results in too much spilling of the wind,killing upwind performance hugely.



I think it best you cease to communicate .

Gestalt
QLD, 14629 posts
7 Apr 2013 9:13AM
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petermac33 said...
I prefer using negative outhaul on all points of sail.

For one i can't be bothered with the hassle and added weight of adjustable outhaul.

Also,i like to use a smaller sail than is necessary for comfort more than performance. I dislike the feel of 7m or larger size sails,they ALL feel heavy to me.

Using a smaller sail,i use the high clew eyelet,use max negative outhaul and a bit less downhaul,all helps to power up the sail,though nothing will make up for that extra half a metre of sail for pure performance.

Reckon it's a bit of a myth that bagging the sail out is not good for upwind. If the wind is the consistent,yes a bit of positive can help. On the river, conditions are so on/off that you need the power in the lulls to get upwind.

Adding extra downhaul than is needed results in too much spilling of the wind,killing upwind performance hugely.


and this is why in slalom board reviews you complain about boards crabbing.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
7 Apr 2013 9:27AM
Thumbs Up

Gestalt said...
Select to expand quote
petermac33 said...
I prefer using negative outhaul on all points of sail.

For one i can't be bothered with the hassle and added weight of adjustable outhaul.

Also,i like to use a smaller sail than is necessary for comfort more than performance. I dislike the feel of 7m or larger size sails,they ALL feel heavy to me.

Using a smaller sail,i use the high clew eyelet,use max negative outhaul and a bit less downhaul,all helps to power up the sail,though nothing will make up for that extra half a metre of sail for pure performance.

Reckon it's a bit of a myth that bagging the sail out is not good for upwind. If the wind is the consistent,yes a bit of positive can help. On the river, conditions are so on/off that you need the power in the lulls to get upwind.

Adding extra downhaul than is needed results in too much spilling of the wind,killing upwind performance hugely.


maybe that's the problem , N/P sails like to be set at specified settings , with less outhaul they will feel heavy



Gestalt
QLD, 14629 posts
7 Apr 2013 10:00AM
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yep,

as with nearly every other sail on the market.

not enough outhaul makes the sail back hand heavy which translates down through the legs into the fin. crabbing persists etc.

not enough downhaul makes a sail feel heavy.

this is one of the reasons people use adjustable outhauls. bag it out off the wind, tighten it up upwind.

to fat a sail entry is very poor for upwind sailing. a windsurfer is a planing vessel not a yatch.

Ben 555
NSW, 455 posts
7 Apr 2013 10:48AM
Thumbs Up

petermac33 said...
I prefer using negative outhaul on all points of sail.

For one i can't be bothered with the hassle and added weight of adjustable outhaul.

Also,i like to use a smaller sail than is necessary for comfort more than performance. I dislike the feel of 7m or larger size sails,they ALL feel heavy to me.

Using a smaller sail,i use the high clew eyelet,use max negative outhaul and a bit less downhaul,all helps to power up the sail,though nothing will make up for that extra half a metre of sail for pure performance.

Reckon it's a bit of a myth that bagging the sail out is not good for upwind. If the wind is the consistent,yes a bit of positive can help. On the river, conditions are so on/off that you need the power in the lulls to get upwind.

Adding extra downhaul than is needed results in too much spilling of the wind,killing upwind performance hugely.



Peter clearly the cumulative effects of modern society have resulted in the claptrap you have peddled above

What you are perceiving as power rigging sails this way just isn't - hence the ridiculous claim of 7m plus feeling heavy

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
7 Apr 2013 2:56PM
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keef said...
Gestalt said...
Select to expand quote
petermac33 said...
I prefer using negative outhaul on all points of sail.

For one i can't be bothered with the hassle and added weight of adjustable outhaul.

Also,i like to use a smaller sail than is necessary for comfort more than performance. I dislike the feel of 7m or larger size sails,they ALL feel heavy to me.

Using a smaller sail,i use the high clew eyelet,use max negative outhaul and a bit less downhaul,all helps to power up the sail,though nothing will make up for that extra half a metre of sail for pure performance.

Reckon it's a bit of a myth that bagging the sail out is not good for upwind. If the wind is the consistent,yes a bit of positive can help. On the river, conditions are so on/off that you need the power in the lulls to get upwind.

Adding extra downhaul than is needed results in too much spilling of the wind,killing upwind performance hugely.


maybe that's the problem , N/P sails like to be set at specified settings , with less outhaul they will feel heavy




"edit" that should have read downhaul

petermac33
WA, 6415 posts
7 Apr 2013 4:37PM
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My 6.3m warp feels half the weight of my 7m warp,another reason not to use the 7m.

The 7.1m KA i had felt bigger again.

May only be a few hundred grammes difference but i repeat it feels twice as heavy,and/or bigger!

Only ever sailed with negative outhaul really,short of a strong winter front. Most agree that positive outhaul does help upwind, though for me especially thru the lulls negative works best on all points of sail!

Agree,positive outhaul does help cam rotation in a big way.

keef
NSW, 2016 posts
7 Apr 2013 9:42PM
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petermac33 said...
.

May only be a few hundred grammes difference but i repeat it feels twice as heavy,and/or bigger!


im not sure if the actual weight of the sail determines if the sail will be light or heavy when sailing

Cluffy
NSW, 422 posts
7 Apr 2013 11:13PM
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keef said...
petermac33 said...
.

May only be a few hundred grammes difference but i repeat it feels twice as heavy,and/or bigger!


im not sure if the actual weight of the sail determines if the sail will be light or heavy when sailing



I think what you are referring to is the actual weight of the sail and the feel of the sail when a Gust hits it. both are correct in my opinion. I have used a reflex 4 7.0 metre and a NCX 7.0 metre and the difference in physical weight is staggering but the gust response is not that different. The NCX is very light in construction and also rigs on a wave boom where as the reflex 4 is built to withstand the massive amounts of rig tension it uses and also requires a heavier boom. how this pans out is the NCX feels like a feather when sub planning and the reflex feels like a race sail with 8 battens and 4 cams. however! when powered up the reflex 4 feels very light actually and the NCX is perhaps a tiny bit heavier due to a slightly less locked in shape. The common denominator I've found is downhaul tension. not enough of it and the sail can feel heavy and when you get it right, even a sail like my reflex 9.6 can feel surprisingly light.

I would be very interested to hear from some wave sailors on this. I haven't wave sailed in a very long time but that will change next summer. My quiver will be quite limited so I need sails that are powerful for light stuff but can depower when necessary. Any suggestions much appreciated

Ride
WA, 236 posts
9 Apr 2013 8:02AM
Thumbs Up

Wood Duck said...
petermac33 said...
I prefer using negative outhaul on all points of sail.

For one i can't be bothered with the hassle and added weight of adjustable outhaul.

Also,i like to use a smaller sail than is necessary for comfort more than performance. I dislike the feel of 7m or larger size sails,they ALL feel heavy to me.

Using a smaller sail,i use the high clew eyelet,use max negative outhaul and a bit less downhaul,all helps to power up the sail,though nothing will make up for that extra half a metre of sail for pure performance.

Reckon it's a bit of a myth that bagging the sail out is not good for upwind. If the wind is the consistent,yes a bit of positive can help. On the river, conditions are so on/off that you need the power in the lulls to get upwind.

Adding extra downhaul than is needed results in too much spilling of the wind,killing upwind performance hugely.



I think it best you cease to communicate .





If that happened .... I'd miss a really good laugh

Paul Kelf
WA, 678 posts
10 Apr 2013 10:52AM
Thumbs Up

Wood Duck said...
petermac33 said...
I prefer using negative outhaul on all points of sail.

For one i can't be bothered with the hassle and added weight of adjustable outhaul.

Also,i like to use a smaller sail than is necessary for comfort more than performance. I dislike the feel of 7m or larger size sails,they ALL feel heavy to me.

Using a smaller sail,i use the high clew eyelet,use max negative outhaul and a bit less downhaul,all helps to power up the sail,though nothing will make up for that extra half a metre of sail for pure performance.

Reckon it's a bit of a myth that bagging the sail out is not good for upwind. If the wind is the consistent,yes a bit of positive can help. On the river, conditions are so on/off that you need the power in the lulls to get upwind.

Adding extra downhaul than is needed results in too much spilling of the wind,killing upwind performance hugely.



I think it best you cease to communicate .



Communication usually involves listening

Bender
WA, 2235 posts
10 Apr 2013 11:43AM
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This is gold. best thread on SB of all time.

TheTank
124 posts
10 Apr 2013 7:09PM
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I bet this guy knows what he's doing!
If you still don't get it after watching this vid...
There's a second one with tuning tips, let me know if you need that one

Victor B
WA, 130 posts
11 Apr 2013 11:03PM
Thumbs Up

TheTank said...


I bet this guy knows what he's doing!
If you still don't get it after watching this vid...
There's a second one with tuning tips, let me know if you need that one




Who the heck is he?

KiteloopKip
5 posts
23 Apr 2013 10:27AM
Thumbs Up

I agree with Snides the boom sounds like it needs to be longer



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"Evo 4 cam rotation" started by petermac33