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Avalon Sails XTR 7.0

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Created by fangman > 9 months ago, 16 Feb 2021
fangman
WA, 1903 posts
16 Feb 2021 12:53PM
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Avalon XTR 7.0 2021 Review

I have had a Avalon 7.0 for a few weeks now and had a chance to use it over its impressive wind range.
Summary - stop reading and just get one. It is the best performing race sail I have ever owned. It's hard to believe any sailor being unhappy with the performance of this sail.

TL:DR Bit for those who really need to procrastinate.
Firstly, some disclaimers - I am not sponsored and have no financial interests in Avalon Sails. I paid the full asking price for this pre production sail. I am lazy, heavy, uncoordinated, and of average ability. When I am kitted up, 120kegs of momentum muscle is hitting the water. So for most of the sailing fraternity that is the equivalent to strapping at least two jerry cans of fuel to your back. Please bear this in mind when reading my comments - what applies to me, may well not apply to you.

First impressions - The sail presents as a very clean, almost austere, panel set up of blue and neutral colours with a slighter higher aspect ratio and striking, constant leading edge entry the entire length of the luff. The stitching and seams are finished neatly and with an eye for detail. There is no excess of cloth or stitching, nor ratty loose ends ignored by hiding them from sight in the luff pocket. There is no undue bulk of reinforcing stitches due to clever design and use of gluing technology. The sail has a moderate sized luff pocket made of light flexible abrasive resistant polyester. The hardworking and stressed maximum chord thickness areas of the foil uses a blue pigmented polyester laminate and the remaining trailing sections of the foil is a clear reinforced scrim laminate. For those of you with deeper pockets and longer arms, the sail can be made in higher tech, race materials if desired.
The aesthetic is minimalist, no frills 'nude' appearance with a distinct lack of superfluous graphics and marketing gimmickry. It very much appeals to my sense of function over form, however it may not be for everyone. I noticed the look was polarising for shoreside sailors with comments ranging from; "..it looks homemade." (*) to enthusiastic appreciation of the clean and uncluttered appearance.
(* I am not sure whether the 'homemade' comment was derogatory, initially I thought it was a positive reference to the bespoke nature of the sail versus the commercial offerings from the China and Sri Lanka, but upon reflection, I now think it may have been the opposite)




Specifications -this pre production sail 7.0 I found the downhaul to be approximately 472cm and nominal outhaul of 200cm. There are 7 battens and 5 cams. The cams are reminiscent of the nineties RAF plastic forks and webbing style cams. The webbing length is different for each location
on the mast and hence not only are they a perfect fit, they are light, simple and appear to durable. As a result the sail feels wonderfully light and supple when rigged.
Despite my initial and incorrect reservations, there is only one outhaul clew. Instead, the seam shaping and physical properties of the panel material combinations works effortlessly to depower the head when required. There is no need to break-the-back of the main panel batten to twist off the top panels as per conventional offerings.
The downhaul is a straightforward three pulley block. On my sail there is no mast foot neoprene sock so the pulley, downhaul and uni joint are in plain sight. I believe that this may change in future, but I like the simplicity and accessibility of the current setup.
The mast head is fixed and reinforced with webbing with no fiddly mast head attachments.




Rigging - The hardest part of rigging is the un-learning of cammed sail wrestling techniques that are a deeply engrained force of habit. It simply requires the mast to be slid across the top of the first three cams as per normal, and then the mast tip located in the leading edge of the luff pocket as the remaining cams automatically slide by the mast and engage themselves. The first few times I rigged I was stopping to check they had engaged because it was unnervingly simple. I need not have bothered. As it turns out, it actually can be that simple to rig cams.
The sail is down hauled about 80% and the bottom three cams flicked into place via a downward push on the belly. Once the relatively small zipped openings are closed, they hold the cams in place on the mast and the days of cams popping off as you downhaul or adjust the mast foot settings are gone.
Also gone are the days of rig winches or busted backs to achieve the correct downhaul. Clever design means that the sail can happily 'twist off' without having to turn the mast inside out, As a result downhaul is a fraction of the load used in comparable sails. Once down-hauled, the twist in the head is visible but there is no rattling or floppy leach film, just a smoothly laying off leech line that continues to do so when the mast is under load.
So, cams are easy, downhaul is easy, what about the boom? Same deal, just slide it on when you are doing the cams. The boom pocket in the sail is not zipped, rather it is a matter of choosing one or more of the three seamed pockets. No zips, just beautifully functional simplicity. KISS principle at its best. Given my unhappy history with boom head zips, to me this was an a fine example of improvement by deconstruction of complexity and excellent piece of innovative thinking and application.




Performance on the water is hard to fault. The bottom end is by
far the most impressive of any sail of this size I have ever used. Every square metre of sail pulls forward from the get go. For a heavy sailor on a narrow tail board this low down power is a joy. I was astounded at the ease I could get planing in lightish conditions where I normally would have been using a 7.8 or more. Once up and going, the lift is very stable and always pulling forward with no hint of lateral lift, yaw and drag. When the gusts come through, if I do nothing, I just go faster until such time as the wind backs off, or more likely, I do. The sail is lazy man's paradise. If I want to slow down, I just sheet out. There is no instability, threats of a catapult or any bad behaviour. Even when I intentionally push the limits trying to backwind or stall the sail there are no vicious snaps. It was just really hard to find any vices. I am not sure about the top end power. It seems to have the ability to go through the gears and just keep pulling forward until you chicken out. There are no hysterics or twitchiness, just a deep intimidating assuredness from the sail that you will ease off the accelerator when your self preservation genes kick in. I can't wait to try this sail on a big stretch of smooth and stare it down the barrel for a NM. The handling is such that I suspect the reason I would change down in size is that I have too much power for the water state, not that I am verging on getting smacked by an uncontrolled rig. Playing with the downhaul affects the entry angle and gradually de-powers the head without resorting to a crinklefest of mono film up top. Outhaul gives a finer foil in the belly to also back off the power. But the extremes of either don't seem to kill-off the sail, make it twitchy or a saggy sack. There is no sweet-spot of settings, rather a large sweet-zone. The sail continues to works at all reasonable settings and you are merely fine tuning for your requirements on the day.
Rotation with 5 cams doesn't sound as though it's going to be anyth
ing other than up front and loud. It isn't. And to the point where it was so smooth and quiet I had to check visually that in fact that all the cams had indeed rotated. No tugging or snap into place, rather a featherlight smooth transition from tack to tack that makes you think you might have rigged a no cam sail by mistake.

Video of one handed rotation
fb.watch/3G-rPREPSw/

Waterstarts are better than any of my cammed sails for several reasons. Firstly, the luff pocket doesn't act like Argyle Dam and store several Sydney Harbours of water when you put it in the drink. Next, the cams rotate so easily that they pop over to the right side with no drowning inducing struggle, Then, the sail is so light you don't need to have Thorpedo strength in your legs to lift it up and finally that bottom end power just effortlessly lifts this carcass free from the water.

Derigging is a non event. Just undo your boom, loosen the downhaul a chunk
and unzip the cam pockets and then help the cams slip off the mast. That's it, job done. Again, lazy man's paradise.

Still reading hoping for the downside? Sorry but it's a pitifully small list. The main item of which is the cost. (currently POA) You ain't going to laugh off the price of this Australian made piece of perfection. Having said that, even though I am always keen for a council verge pick up bargain, I will be replacing all my sails in future when the budget allows. Second, is the foot batten. This is where the lazy man's paradise ends in a uncompromising slap of function over all else. Rather than use a relatively parallel foot batten and foot tack strap, a more efficient angled bottom batten is used. Whilst this gives an excellent foot shape and is better in every respect when on water, when it comes to rolling p your sail, this batten needs to be removed in order to get a nice tight roll. I am simply too lazy and end up paying the price with an oversize poorly packed roll of sail. If you are not lazy and remove the batten, the sail packs with no problem. And finally, the three zips are white. They should be black to match the battens.
See? I told you it was pitiful.

Congrats on making it to the end of another Fangy review. Get ya self a gold star and whack it on the fridge.

Avalon Sail Co is based in Mandurah WA. Phil 'Bugs' Smith is the designer and has a list of accomplishments longer than I can be bothered to type. Remember, lazy man right here. He is incredibly old and knows his stuff.
Faceache link here where you can get all the deets:

www.facebook.com/avalonsails

legless
SA, 852 posts
16 Feb 2021 4:29PM
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What type of mast are you rigging it on?

fangman
WA, 1903 posts
16 Feb 2021 2:10PM
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Kilwell Matrix5 460 ( one of the early iterations of a RDM. The base is closer to a current SDM, the top closer to a RDM)

MrFussy
WA, 16 posts
16 Feb 2021 2:41PM
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Yep, those masts are over 25 yrs old now, we designed them with Kilwell in response to the start of the RDM trend. The early RDMs on offer did not have enough lower diameter to stand the mast up in the boom area, increasing material there to do the job just made them heavy and sink, reduced the buoyancy of the rig. The rate of taper from tip to base with the kilwell masts better matched the desired mast bend mechanics and diameter/wall thickness combination proved very durable. It was a pity at the time there wasn't the marketing backup for them. Luckily today you can get high quality masts from Slake that are very close to the Matrix 5 dimensions.

Stretchy
WA, 1036 posts
16 Feb 2021 5:52PM
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Great review Fangy. Sail looks sweet. Love all the x-ply on a cam sail and good riddance to those bloody boom head zips!

decrepit
WA, 12766 posts
16 Feb 2021 9:46PM
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Fangy, had my 5.5 out today, and have to agree in total with your review. But I was very underpowered, I need more wind to evaluate it properly.
And I also rigged mine on a Kilwell matrix5, used a 400 today with 32 extension, next time I'll try a short 430 I have with minimum extension.

Yes Mr Fussy, it's a big pity the industry didn't follow your lead back in the 90s, It would have saved heaps of heartache since, caused by broken masts.

Roo
876 posts
16 Feb 2021 11:20PM
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Select to expand quote
fangman said..
Avalon XTR 7.0 2021 Review
The boom pocket in the sail is not zipped, rather it is a matter of choosing one or more of the three seamed pockets. No zips, just beautifully functional simplicity. KISS principle at its best. Given my unhappy history with boom head zips, to me this was an a fine example of improvement by deconstruction of complexity and excellent piece of innovative thinking and application.


Hate to tell you Fangy but those boom pockets have been around since the 1980s. Gaastra was using them back then on their speed/race sails. Not so much innovative thinking and application but imitation!

gorgesailor
632 posts
17 Feb 2021 4:24AM
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Select to expand quote
Roo said..

fangman said..
Avalon XTR 7.0 2021 Review
The boom pocket in the sail is not zipped, rather it is a matter of choosing one or more of the three seamed pockets. No zips, just beautifully functional simplicity. KISS principle at its best. Given my unhappy history with boom head zips, to me this was an a fine example of improvement by deconstruction of complexity and excellent piece of innovative thinking and application.



Hate to tell you Fangy but those boom pockets have been around since the 1980s. Gaastra was using them back then on their speed/race sails. Not so much innovative thinking and application but imitation!


my 1989 Hotsails XTR's had them ... & guess who designed for them...

fangman
WA, 1903 posts
17 Feb 2021 7:30AM
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Select to expand quote
Roo said..


Hate to tell you Fangy but those boom pockets have been around since the 1980s. Gaastra was using them back then on their speed/race sails. Not so much innovative thinking and application but imitation!


Well I did not know that Roo, and I thought I was old enough to have seen just about all the of the changes to sails over the years!. And now that I do, I am once again suspicious that some of the "improvements" were driven by the Marketing Department rather than the end user.

DarrylG
WA, 503 posts
17 Feb 2021 7:53AM
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The boom pocket changes were due to changes in luff curve and downhaul tension.
Low tension straight luff = easier to to slide mast up the cut outs
Higher tension + more curve made rigging more difficult so the zippered pockets are used.

MrFussy
WA, 16 posts
17 Feb 2021 8:17AM
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Just a little note, I have been sailmaking for nearly 45 yrs now, so just about 40 of those involved in windsurf sails. Made my first windsurf sail when I was 20 (1980), first camber induced sail in about 1984 (remember the Bugs Power Claw ). I remember at one of the Longreef Sony Internationals (1985?) Gaastra were showing off their new cambered sails and weren't too impressed with the appearance of our Bugs race sails, they were trying to patent the concept. Anyway main point is that I have been through the whole development of windsurf sails to date and invented or been involved in developing many of the bits and bobs seen in the past and present. What is in our sails today is what I have cherry picked from all those years of development and happy to state most is my stuff. The boom slots for me date from 87-88 and used them in Bugs race sails before joining Hot Sails Maui in early 1990, may have seen the method in the Gaastras of the time, all I know is I hated the open hole with binding all around it. As time has gone on production windsurf sails have become more and more laden with junky finishing detail, bling I guess, can't stand it personally, I am only interested in breaking design down to the purest form possible without compromising performance. They are designed from experience, not a marketing department with a graphics art budget.Cheers,Bugs

MrFussy
WA, 16 posts
17 Feb 2021 8:27AM
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Select to expand quote
DarrylG said..
The boom pocket changes were due to changes in luff curve and downhaul tension.
Low tension straight luff = easier to to slide mast up the cut outs
Higher tension + more curve made rigging more difficult so the zippered pockets are used.


Yeah, happy to not go down that design road Dazz.

Roo
876 posts
17 Feb 2021 8:28AM
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Select to expand quote
MrFussy said..
Just a little note, I have been sailmaking for nearly 45 yrs now, so just about 40 of those involved in windsurf sails. Made my first windsurf sail when I was 20 (1980), first camber induced sail in about 1984 (remember the Bugs Power Claw ). I remember at one of the Longreef Sony Internationals (1985?) Gaastra were showing off their new cambered sails and weren't too impressed with the appearance of our Bugs race sails, they were trying to patent the concept. Anyway main point is that I have been through the whole development of windsurf sails to date and invented or been involved in developing many of the bits and bobs seen in the past and present. What is in our sails today is what I have cherry picked from all those years of development and happy to state most is my stuff. The boom slots for me date from 87-88 and used them in Bugs race sails before joining Hot Sails Maui in early 1990, may have seen the method in the Gaastras of the time, all I know is I hated the open hole with binding all around it. As time has gone on production windsurf sails have become more and more laden with junky finishing detail, bling I guess, can't stand it personally, I am only interested in breaking design down to the purest form possible without compromising performance. They are designed from experience, not a marketing department with a graphics art budget.Cheers,Bugs


Not trying to take away from your accomplishments or expertise Bugs. Sometimes people see things they think are new and innovative but like most things in windsurfing they have been tried and used by others over the years. Great thing is that modern materials and technology allow us to take those ideas and make them better.

decrepit
WA, 12766 posts
17 Feb 2021 8:31AM
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Yes, definitely not designed by a marketing department!!!!!
Love your work Bugs

gorgesailor
632 posts
17 Feb 2021 8:37AM
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Select to expand quote
MrFussy said..
Just a little note, I have been sailmaking for nearly 45 yrs now, so just about 40 of those involved in windsurf sails. Made my first windsurf sail when I was 20 (1980), first camber induced sail in about 1984 (remember the Bugs Power Claw ). I remember at one of the Longreef Sony Internationals (1985?) Gaastra were showing off their new cambered sails and weren't too impressed with the appearance of our Bugs race sails, they were trying to patent the concept. Anyway main point is that I have been through the whole development of windsurf sails to date and invented or been involved in developing many of the bits and bobs seen in the past and present. What is in our sails today is what I have cherry picked from all those years of development and happy to state most is my stuff. The boom slots for me date from 87-88 and used them in Bugs race sails before joining Hot Sails Maui in early 1990, may have seen the method in the Gaastras of the time, all I know is I hated the open hole with binding all around it. As time has gone on production windsurf sails have become more and more laden with junky finishing detail, bling I guess, can't stand it personally, I am only interested in breaking design down to the purest form possible without compromising performance. They are designed from experience, not a marketing department with a graphics art budget.Cheers,Bugs


Loved my Bugs designed Hot sails back in the day ... good to see you're still at it!

AUS 808
WA, 501 posts
17 Feb 2021 11:00AM
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Select to expand quote
fangman said..
Kilwell Matrix5 460 ( one of the early iterations of a RDM. The base is closer to a current SDM, the top closer to a RDM)


What is the actual Bend Curve & Stiffness Spec?

Will they rig on other masts, this is the main problem with switching brands these days.

fangman
WA, 1903 posts
17 Feb 2021 12:00PM
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Select to expand quote
AUS 808 said..

fangman said..
Kilwell Matrix5 460 ( one of the early iterations of a RDM. The base is closer to a current SDM, the top closer to a RDM)



What is the actual Bend Curve & Stiffness Spec?

Will they rig on other masts, this is the main problem with switching brands these days.


The Matrix5 is constant curve. Carbon content 70%.
Rigging on other masts issue - I am rapidly getting out of my depth here. I am sure Bugs would have explained in detail to me at some stage, but I have an attention span that defies my age, and not in a good way. Two points I can think of: the first being that at this point the sails are bespoke so you supply the mast, Bugs puts the right seams in the right place, does his best with cam fit and all is hunky dory. Secondly, getting into the deep end here..., the sails do not rely on luff curve shaping (rather, they are primarily seam shaped) and therefore the sail is not heavily influenced by the mast characteristics and the need to torture the mast and distort the sail into the correct shape.

decrepit
WA, 12766 posts
17 Feb 2021 12:10PM
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Matrix 5 stiffness's are typical of most modern masts, nothing out of the ordinary there

I haven't tried it, but I think an SDM would have trouble fitting on the bottom camber of my sail. The Matrix 5s are a smaller dia up to around the boom.
And the cambers are a very close fit on my sail, once the zipper is closed there's no slack. But as Fangy says, Bugs will shape the luff to your mast dia. I'm not sure how much extra trouble to determine mast bend if it's not constant curve. Or how much difference it would actually make, as Fangy says twist isn't dependant on mast flex, it's shaped into the sail.

cald
QLD, 164 posts
17 Feb 2021 2:17PM
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I am just getting back into the sport, always liked bugs sails from hotsails maui days, and like the no bling attitude, some these new sails are mind boggling. if/when i want to upgrade my rigs are these just a deal with bugs direct situation?

On another note, sounds like I should have kept my matrix5s when I was sailing it was as a young fella in Rotorua right next to their factory at the time!

MrFussy
WA, 16 posts
17 Feb 2021 1:20PM
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Yes, contact me at Avalon Sails, no dealers involved here, not room for yet another margin.

Gestalt
QLD, 14627 posts
17 Feb 2021 7:01PM
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So whats the rrp on the sail.

decrepit
WA, 12766 posts
17 Feb 2021 5:29PM
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Gestalt said..
So whats the rrp on the sail.


I don't think there is one yet.

True
WA, 2 posts
17 Feb 2021 6:06PM
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RRP between $2000 to $2500.pretty good for Australian Made. Probably less than the cost of your daughter's ball dress/ makeup/ limo hire. And ...it will be useable again the next day! . All about priorities I guess ??

Ben1973
1007 posts
17 Feb 2021 9:39PM
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I like the nice clean look, I agree a lot of sails now have to many gadgets.Mountbatten sails had boom slots around 1985, and split batten cambers

ZeeGerman
303 posts
17 Feb 2021 11:38PM
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Great looking sails.
Lots of old school-looking things (tight luff-sleeves in cambered sails, high aspect ration, seam shape rather than mast bend) that seem to become fashionable again, some due to the foiling trend.
I would guess you can get away with a relatively small sail like you once could with sails that weren't mainly designed for the top end.
A nice detail on their facebook page: The rotational sail with a single external camber. I've been fantasizing about converting some of my freeride sails this way to add bottom end in foiling, but couldn't wrap my head around it. Great solution for this!

duzzi
1120 posts
18 Feb 2021 12:03AM
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Nice sail! I probably used Phil Smith sails in the early 90's because it is when I started using Hot Sails Maui sails. I wonder if he worked on that crazy, how many were they, 11 battens-no-cam-speed sail I owned? (forgot the name of the sail, anybody remembers? HSM past sites are gone ...).

... I understand the enthusiasm but to be honest is the review a bit over board?? Streamlined? Besides the lack of the built in base mast protector, that in my opinion is a necessity, and the lack of boom zipper, there are plenty sails that are as streamlined as this one. Arguably more since 5 cams are really kind of an outlier nowadays. Rigging my 7.3 3-cams Loft Switchblade is easy (see below), first generation Hot Sails Maui GPS (4 cams) was less so but not too bad. I see around new Point-7, NP, Loft full on race sails and rigging seems very easy. However, you are forgetting the new breed of freerace camless sail ... those are easy to rig and derig!!! Hard to comment on the performance of the sail, hyperbole seems to reign a bit there, but really ... no modern race, or freerace sail shows "hysterics or twitchiness". It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace ... but again it is certainly heavier than a no-cams.

Anyway, very good looking! enjoy it!!!




fangman
WA, 1903 posts
18 Feb 2021 8:37AM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..
Nice sail! I probably used Phil Smith sails in the early 90's because it is when I started using Hot Sails Maui sails. I wonder if he worked on that crazy, how many were they, 11 battens-no-cam-speed sail I owned? (forgot the name of the sail, anybody remembers? HSM past sites are gone ...).

... I understand the enthusiasm but to be honest is the review a bit over board?? Streamlined? Besides the lack of the built in base mast protector, that in my opinion is a necessity, and the lack of boom zipper, there are plenty sails that are as streamlined as this one. Arguably more since 5 cams are really kind of an outlier nowadays. Rigging my 7.3 3-cams Loft Switchblade is easy (see below), first generation Hot Sails Maui GPS (4 cams) was less so but not too bad. I see around new Point-7, NP, Loft full on race sails and rigging seems very easy. However, you are forgetting the new breed of freerace camless sail ... those are easy to rig and derig!!! Hard to comment on the performance of the sail, hyperbole seems to reign a bit there, but really ... no modern race, or freerace sail shows "hysterics or twitchiness". It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace ... but again it is certainly heavier than a no-cams.

Anyway, very good looking! enjoy it!!!











Thank you for your feedback Duzzi. I will endeavout to take it on board if I write another review in the future. I do find it hard to find the balance between being a happy customer who is stoked with the performance of his purchase and writing yet another deadly boring scientific report such that 90% of the readers suffer involuntary narcolepsy.
Weight to answer your query:
"...It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace.,."
The weight of the 5 cam Avalon 7.0 XTR sail is 4.3kgs. According to the Loft website the RacingBlade 6.9 is 5.92 kgs. This is 38% heavier than the 5 cam Avalon 7.0 XTR. The 3 cam free Race Switchblade is still over a kilo heavier at 5.35kg and represents a 12% increase in weight.

duzzi
1120 posts
18 Feb 2021 8:45AM
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Select to expand quote
fangman said..


duzzi said..
Nice sail! I probably used Phil Smith sails in the early 90's because it is when I started using Hot Sails Maui sails. I wonder if he worked on that crazy, how many were they, 11 battens-no-cam-speed sail I owned? (forgot the name of the sail, anybody remembers? HSM past sites are gone ...).

... I understand the enthusiasm but to be honest is the review a bit over board?? Streamlined? Besides the lack of the built in base mast protector, that in my opinion is a necessity, and the lack of boom zipper, there are plenty sails that are as streamlined as this one. Arguably more since 5 cams are really kind of an outlier nowadays. Rigging my 7.3 3-cams Loft Switchblade is easy (see below), first generation Hot Sails Maui GPS (4 cams) was less so but not too bad. I see around new Point-7, NP, Loft full on race sails and rigging seems very easy. However, you are forgetting the new breed of freerace camless sail ... those are easy to rig and derig!!! Hard to comment on the performance of the sail, hyperbole seems to reign a bit there, but really ... no modern race, or freerace sail shows "hysterics or twitchiness". It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace ... but again it is certainly heavier than a no-cams.

Anyway, very good looking! enjoy it!!!








Thank you for your feedback Duzzi. I will endeavout to take it on board if I write another review in the future. I do find it hard to find the balance between being a happy customer who is stoked with the performance of his purchase and writing yet another deadly boring scientific report such that 90% of the readers suffer involuntary narcolepsy.
Weight to answer your query:
"...It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace.,."
The weight of the Avalon 7.0 XTR sail is 4.3kgs. According to the Loft website the RacingBlade 6.9 is 5.92 kgs. The Avalon 7.0 is approximately 25% lighter.


That's light! A Switchblade 7.0 is 5.3Kg. The lack of mast base protection helps saving weight, but still nice.

Now does anybody remember the name of the 11 (or 10) battens Hot Sails Maui speed sail? I have it on the tip of my tongue but it is not getting out!

gorgesailor
632 posts
18 Feb 2021 9:02AM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..

fangman said..



duzzi said..
Nice sail! I probably used Phil Smith sails in the early 90's because it is when I started using Hot Sails Maui sails. I wonder if he worked on that crazy, how many were they, 11 battens-no-cam-speed sail I owned? (forgot the name of the sail, anybody remembers? HSM past sites are gone ...).

... I understand the enthusiasm but to be honest is the review a bit over board?? Streamlined? Besides the lack of the built in base mast protector, that in my opinion is a necessity, and the lack of boom zipper, there are plenty sails that are as streamlined as this one. Arguably more since 5 cams are really kind of an outlier nowadays. Rigging my 7.3 3-cams Loft Switchblade is easy (see below), first generation Hot Sails Maui GPS (4 cams) was less so but not too bad. I see around new Point-7, NP, Loft full on race sails and rigging seems very easy. However, you are forgetting the new breed of freerace camless sail ... those are easy to rig and derig!!! Hard to comment on the performance of the sail, hyperbole seems to reign a bit there, but really ... no modern race, or freerace sail shows "hysterics or twitchiness". It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace ... but again it is certainly heavier than a no-cams.

Anyway, very good looking! enjoy it!!!









Thank you for your feedback Duzzi. I will endeavout to take it on board if I write another review in the future. I do find it hard to find the balance between being a happy customer who is stoked with the performance of his purchase and writing yet another deadly boring scientific report such that 90% of the readers suffer involuntary narcolepsy.
Weight to answer your query:
"...It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace.,."
The weight of the Avalon 7.0 XTR sail is 4.3kgs. According to the Loft website the RacingBlade 6.9 is 5.92 kgs. The Avalon 7.0 is approximately 25% lighter.



That's light! A Switchblade 7.0 is 5.3Kg. The lack of mast base protection helps saving weight, but still nice.

Now does anybody remember the name of the 11 (or 10) battens Hot Sails Maui speed sail? I have it on the tip of my tongue but it is not getting out!


Superspeed

MrFussy
WA, 16 posts
18 Feb 2021 9:51AM
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Nope, had nothing to do with the 11 batten sail, not my kind of thing.I can understand your scepticism, such a good report I would be too. Correct on the point that foiling was behind these latest sails, I am switching from 10yrs of foiling Moth racing to foilboard and thought I'd better make some sails for myself to use. First up was that 6.3m single cam sail to plonk around on. Used it on freeride foil stuff and got happily foiling around in about 6-8kts breeze and it feels pretty good, very light and easy to throw around as you can imagine so big tick there. Next I wanted to test how stable the sail is fully loaded so went down to our local speed spot to sail with the crew. I think it was about 12-18 kts and plugged it onto a Carbon Art slalom board, normalish sort of thing not some wide boat. Sheeted on and took off, no pumping just go so at that point was thinking "this could be a handful!" but no, just pull away and send it, no dramas. To check pace I line up with my mates, not really into the GPS thing as would rather race, and that day nobody went past me and some of them are not slouches. In fact I spent a bit of time using them for gybe marks when they were parking up in the lulls so I gybed around them just to stir things up. In the gybes the sail rotated seamlessly, it was almost unnerving, and the power is on as you sheet in and power away immediately, I didn't not plane out of any gybe all session and unless I stopped for a chat out there never came off the plane while most where starting to chug around and complain the wind was dropping, and they had mostly larger full race/performance sails than me. And it goes upwind really well which is nice when forced to sail with weed fins!So I had a very nice session, hadn't been out for a long time due to Moth commitments and very surprised myself at how well the sail went. The point I want to make is that it is all about the sail shape mould, how the battens are constructed and how they compliment the sails shaping mechanics, cloth choice and what is done to control the front of the battens (this has a lot to do with what shaping values you can choose), a small tighter fitting pocket (with one external cam to preset sail out against downhaul load) or multiple cambers in a wider pocket. Things like boom cut out designs to "streamline" things make no difference at all to sailing performance, fittings and finishing detail are best kept as light and simple and durable as possible. I will be testing identical single cam sails against the full camber ones to judge if the tighter pocket control can be enough to do the job.The sail above looks very nice, but I can tell you that at a glance the shaping mechanics to get that form is not the same as what I do, anyway, enough bull**** from me, I'll let the sails tell the story.Cheers, Bugs.

duzzi
1120 posts
18 Feb 2021 10:40AM
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gorgesailor said..


duzzi said..



fangman said..





duzzi said..
Nice sail! I probably used Phil Smith sails in the early 90's because it is when I started using Hot Sails Maui sails. I wonder if he worked on that crazy, how many were they, 11 battens-no-cam-speed sail I owned? (forgot the name of the sail, anybody remembers? HSM past sites are gone ...).

... I understand the enthusiasm but to be honest is the review a bit over board?? Streamlined? Besides the lack of the built in base mast protector, that in my opinion is a necessity, and the lack of boom zipper, there are plenty sails that are as streamlined as this one. Arguably more since 5 cams are really kind of an outlier nowadays. Rigging my 7.3 3-cams Loft Switchblade is easy (see below), first generation Hot Sails Maui GPS (4 cams) was less so but not too bad. I see around new Point-7, NP, Loft full on race sails and rigging seems very easy. However, you are forgetting the new breed of freerace camless sail ... those are easy to rig and derig!!! Hard to comment on the performance of the sail, hyperbole seems to reign a bit there, but really ... no modern race, or freerace sail shows "hysterics or twitchiness". It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace ... but again it is certainly heavier than a no-cams.

Anyway, very good looking! enjoy it!!!











Thank you for your feedback Duzzi. I will endeavout to take it on board if I write another review in the future. I do find it hard to find the balance between being a happy customer who is stoked with the performance of his purchase and writing yet another deadly boring scientific report such that 90% of the readers suffer involuntary narcolepsy.
Weight to answer your query:
"...It would be nice to know the weight, it looks built like a tank and I doubt that it is any lighter than any other race/freerace.,."
The weight of the Avalon 7.0 XTR sail is 4.3kgs. According to the Loft website the RacingBlade 6.9 is 5.92 kgs. The Avalon 7.0 is approximately 25% lighter.





That's light! A Switchblade 7.0 is 5.3Kg. The lack of mast base protection helps saving weight, but still nice.

Now does anybody remember the name of the 11 (or 10) battens Hot Sails Maui speed sail? I have it on the tip of my tongue but it is not getting out!




Superspeed



Right! Kind of sorry I sold it long ago. It would be unique piece of windsurfing history!



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