Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..
They've gone the way of the dodo, just like Dacron sails
The top selling board in the world has a centreboard. Claiming that they have gone the way of a dodo is a lie and sailing and sales activity prove it.
Why do you have to sling insults at gear just because it doesn't happen to suit you? The stuff you do bores me, but I don't abuse your gear.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
We have a distance race around an island in Seattle. It's open to any windsurfing gear you want. It runs under two bridges and the island is tall enough to form massive wind shadows.
The record was held by one guy with a Div2 board for YEARS. Most people used a raceboard to run it with Formula making a rare appearance.
Within two years of foils hitting the scene only record was being beaten on a regular basis.
Or local short course racing is the same. A few isolated videos of decent sailors passing poor ones doesn't change that.
So what? A kitefoiler would probably kick the windfoilers, but does that mean the windfoiler guys aren't having fun?
The fact that a Div 2 board was the fastest thing around for years didn't stop the Raceboarders having fun, so why should the fact that a windfoiler is faster stop the Raceboarders having fun?
Remove the word race, insert the word fun. Its about getting out on the water and enjoying yourself. Yes a formula board will get around a course fast, but for ease of use in 5-15 knots, I'll hop on an old funboard.
Foil just add more complexity and expense.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
We have a distance race around an island in Seattle. It's open to any windsurfing gear you want. It runs under two bridges and the island is tall enough to form massive wind shadows.
The record was held by one guy with a Div2 board for YEARS. Most people used a raceboard to run it with Formula making a rare appearance.
Within two years of foils hitting the scene only record was being beaten on a regular basis.
Or local short course racing is the same. A few isolated videos of decent sailors passing poor ones doesn't change that.
If you mean the Winduro then it doesn't seem like an ideal comparison. The description seems to show that it's a race held specifically in fairly strong winds, sometime within a three-month period. So it's a long, largely open-water (compared to Sydney Harbour where the OP sails) race on a specially-selected and pretty rare day, and even the promoters agree that it's a "real bummer" that the scheduling means that keen sailors can't do it. That makes it quite a different sort of sailing from sailing on Sydney Harbour or somewhere similar when you happen to have spare time and want to be able to reliably have fun, no matter what the wind.
It'd be interesting to see why you claim the windfoilers are faster. According to this thread (groups.io/g/nw-windtalk/topic/official_2018_winduro_part/27745765?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,20,2,0,27745765) the fastest RB was about 15 minutes quicker than the fastest foiler in one Winduro in 2018.
It looks like there were two events that year, and a foiler beat a RB by 5 minutes in the other event. That indicates that the RBs were faster overall. However, because the foilers couldn't get through the weed where the RBs started, it seems they were started earlier and on the course; according to the organiser "the more experienced foilers and more experienced longboarders did NOT get the same wind, in the same places around the island."
Obviously no one would disagree that a windfoiler is quicker than a RB in open water and good wind. It's no contest. But that ignores the fact that lots of longboarders spend lots of time sailing in lighter winds or more enclosed and shifty waters. In those conditions, foilers are slower.
It's like comparing a top fuel dragster or F1 car to a racing four wheel drive or a rally car; obviously one is far faster in ideal conditions, but the other can handle a wider range of conditions. Slagging off either type is just dumb. They are both great for different uses.
By the way, with respect a city of 4 million people that sees so little windsurfer racing is hardly a model that we should look up to. When I left Sydney (which has a similar population) a few years ago one fleet alone would have 25 longboards each Wednesday and 15 or so on Saturday.
The combined longboard state titles in NSW (a state with a population of a 7.5 million people) attracted NINETY longboards. How can anyone suggest that an approach that puts 90 boards on the water is worse than the approach that puts 15 or so boards on the water?
Oh , C,mon , it's simple , the style of sailing has lost the centreboard . It's not the centreboards fault
Nah, in reality its the whimpering old fellas whose Mrs makes em drive little SUV cars.
They're too WEAK to lift a board with a centreboard n multiple footstraps onto the micro sized roof rack.
Thats what made CBs redundant.
Select to expand quoteolskool said..
Nah, in reality its the whimpering old fellas whose Mrs makes em drive little SUV cars.
They're too WEAK to lift a board with a centreboard n multiple footstraps onto the micro sized roof rack.
Thats what made CBs redundant.
Bring back chewin tabacco while sailin I say.
Hey , it all started with the crazy idea of an adjustable boom . Kids these days . Next they'll ban penny bangers.
Select to expand quotegreycaps said..
I used winsurf a hell of a lot on all sorts of boards in the last century. I've returned and dug out my old Bombora South Pacific to sail around on Sydney Harbour. I can stick the centreboard down and go somewhere or raise it and reach around like everyone else (well, one or two other elses). If I want to get some new gear I still want to be able to go upwind. So what's the deal? No, I don't want a Windsurfer. Is there even a name for the type of board that has a centreboard - they used be called raceboards or, what I'm into, a funboard?
Hi greycaps, some manufacturers still make the equivalent of a funboard... and guess what? They're fun! Here are a few examples:
tabou-boards.com/boards/2021/youth-learn/coolrider-21/
jp-australia.com/p/windsurfing/boards/funster-sport/
equipment.robertoriccidesigns.com/products/longrider-y25/
I've had both a Coolrider and a Longrider. Both boards were great fun, do anything, go anywhere, light wind and strong wind, very hard wearing, fun for the family.
Raceboard are a little more specialised, faster, more technical and challenging.
There's a board for everyone - just depends what you want.
Seattle has a relatively small, but dedicated, group of racers because it's so close to the Columbia River Gorge and Oregon coast that few people bother owning big race gear.
Both a Kona and LT fleet were attempted to be started but were frankly too boring to succeed, and that's racing where almost any fair class is still entertaining.
Almost nobody free sails raceboards anymore even though a lot own them. My Equipe 2 I think saw 1 day last year?
A kite foiler couldn't complete the winduro. For one they wouldn't fit under the bridges and even on a 20kt forecast about 1/4 of the course will be ~5kts.
The person who wrote that description is very enthusiastic but he speaks with a lot of hyperbole.
If you find plodding around on an LT entertaining then power to you. Just don't pretend it's a performance or even affordable option (my Equipe was free).
Arguing amongst ourselves about who is faster in our little minority sport which unfortunately is split up into so many disciplines these days is pointless.
And those that bag other gear probably haven't used or raced it or don't live or sail in an area where the wind is light or shifty. Or just like stirring on forums.
I sail long and short boards. All I know is in the last 2 years of being back on a long board I've had probably 30 people have a go of windsurfing. That's because I'm at the beach on the nice days or have it out on camping trips and the conditions suit beginners to have a go. When it's windy no one's around and the shortboard doesn't suit learning anyway. How many beginners have had a go of a foil? Expect most foilers come from the tiny group of existing windsurfers that ironically learnt on something with a centreboard.
I reckon we should promote centreboards. Our sport has shrunk for years because some are just interested in high end.
Good luck getting a raw beginner to stumble on a decent used raceboard with a light rig that suits learning for free.
Beginners need a full package and preferably shopfront to buy from. For $2900 new the LT is the best choice at the moment.
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
Seattle has a relatively small, but dedicated, group of racers because it's so close to the Columbia River Gorge and Oregon coast that few people bother owning big race gear.
Both a Kona and LT fleet were attempted to be started but were frankly too boring to succeed, and that's racing where almost any fair class is still entertaining.
Almost nobody free sails raceboards anymore even though a lot own them. My Equipe 2 I think saw 1 day last year?
A kite foiler couldn't complete the winduro. For one they wouldn't fit under the bridges and even on a 20kt forecast about 1/4 of the course will be ~5kts.
The person who wrote that description is very enthusiastic but he speaks with a lot of hyperbole.
If you find plodding around on an LT entertaining then power to you. Just don't pretend it's a performance or even affordable option (my Equipe was free).
Probably every city has some rival attractions; Sydney's demographic centre is just 18 miles from a pretty good wavesailing beach and downtown is even closer. Perth's largely spread along fantastic shortboarding beaches. And yet both cities have far stronger racing scenes than Seattle. Sure, Seattle's a very different place in other ways too, but the point is that there seems to be no proof at all that the Seattle model works better than the Sydney/Perth models.
The fact that you say Seattle is "so close" to other spots seems to underline the different mentalities. For many of us, windsurfing is too important to be something we can only do after driving two to three hours; we want to be able to get afloat a couple of times a week, even during the working week. That changes our tastes and our kit. We don't see anything "boring" in being able to hit the water within 40 minutes of leaving the office and having a fascinating technical race with our mates, or getting engrossed into perfecting our sailing even by ourselves in light winds, or just cruising around soaking up the beauty of nature and the harbour. YMMV.
The point about the kitefoiler being faster was that your windfoiler is a "plodder" compared to a kitefoiler, but that doesn't stop you having fun on the windfoiler - so why does the fact that a longboard is sometimes slower than a windfoiler mean that the longboard is inferior or a "boring plodder"?
If pure speed is what counts then get a kitefoil. If pure speed isn't important then there's no need to denigrate any type of windsurfer.
I don't think anyone has pretended that the Windsurfer is a performance option in terms of top-end speed, 'cause it isn't. But for the sailing the OP seem to want to do, in the place he wants to do it, it's normally faster than anything other than a Raceboard, and even that's a close call at times. If we define "performance" as the ability to sail on a typical waterway in a typical wind, then the longboards offer at least as much performance as a shortboard, hybrid or foiler. And the scenes where they accept that and don't call longboards "boring plodders" are a lot stronger than the Seattle one!
Select to expand quoteGrantmac said..
Seattle has a relatively small, but dedicated, group of racers because it's so close to the Columbia River Gorge and Oregon coast that few people bother owning big race gear.
Both a Kona and LT fleet were attempted to be started but were frankly too boring to succeed, and that's racing where almost any fair class is still entertaining.
Almost nobody free sails raceboards anymore even though a lot own them. My Equipe 2 I think saw 1 day last year?
A kite foiler couldn't complete the winduro. For one they wouldn't fit under the bridges and even on a 20kt forecast about 1/4 of the course will be ~5kts.
The person who wrote that description is very enthusiastic but he speaks with a lot of hyperbole.
If you find plodding around on an LT entertaining then power to you. Just don't pretend it's a performance or even affordable option (my Equipe was free).
You don't deserve to have that Equipe 2, its a classic board that many would love to have, you should pass it onto someone who would appreciate it for what it is. Imagine arguing a classic car is redundant because no one really drives them anymore and new ones perform better, no one would because its so ridiculous.
As for this thread its not about what has better performance it was about what new centreboard gear is available to cruise around Sydney Harbour.
Foiling is cool and all and many are enjoying doing it, myself included but it is not the be all and end all, you don't need to constantly bring it into every thread, Its almost like an insecurity.
Select to expand quotecammd said..
Nice sail today on an old Mistral Superlight 2.
I think this post says it all, just look at his basic data. Over 30km covered and 2hrs on the water. Pretty decent average and max speed and most importantly the tracking in all sorts of directions. You can tell this guy had a ball on this day. For me this is the windsurfing equivalent of cruising down the highway in a big block V8 cadillac convertible with the top down and the wind in your hair, might not be screaming around the track in a japanese rice burner but just as appealing and fun. A decent length/volume board with a centre board is most suited for this. I have a 3 metre long 255litre board with a centre board in my quiver of boards and it gets used regularly, I will never part ways with it because I have had and will continue to have fun on it. For me centre boards are still relevant in some conditions and some sessions, depends what your into. If I needed a new one the biggest JP funster sport 195 would be my pick. Best dimensions for balance between glidey/plany and inserts for placing the foot-straps out on the rails and rearward, only thing I don't like about it is the full eva deck.
My collection of old long boards. I haven't sailed the D2 on the bottom yet, just fixed up a hole and put a new gasket on it. Needs the centreboard replaced but I have something I can use just to give it a try. Its a WINDFX World Tour Custom(airinside). Old school cool IMO.
Select to expand quotecammd said..John340 said..
They've gone the way of the dodo, just like Dacron sails
Pictures say a thousand words.......... looks a lot like your set up getting left in the wake of those dodo's 
Well skewered Cam. That was a few years ago, we don't see you out quite so often these days. Are you foiling?
Mobdog, I'm with you. You've explained the relevance of a board with a CB perfectly.
Some days its not about Maximum speed.
On a longboard you have time to relax somewhat n just enjoy your surroundings.
While the others sit on the beach wishing for another 5kts.
Anders Bringdal recently explained the allure of gliding longboards and it even sounds like he recognises the ease (read accessibility) of sailing them after work for many people. This is why centreboards are still useful on any given Sunday as well.
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..cammd said..John340 said..
They've gone the way of the dodo, just like Dacron sails
Pictures say a thousand words.......... looks a lot like your set up getting left in the wake of those dodo's
Well skewered Cam. That was a few years ago, we don't see you out quite so often these days. Are you foiling?
On holidays still so
Foiled and formula on the weekend, Raceboard yesterday, D2 today and looking forward to some bump and jump tomorrow when that SE change kicks in. Then rest, eat and repeat
Did some supping in amongst all that as well, I think the only thing missing is an LT
Select to expand quotecammd said..John340 said..cammd said..John340 said..
They've gone the way of the dodo, just like Dacron sails
Pictures say a thousand words.......... looks a lot like your set up getting left in the wake of those dodo's
Well skewered Cam. That was a few years ago, we don't see you out quite so often these days. Are you foiling?
On holidays still so
Foiled and formula on the weekend, Raceboard yesterday, D2 today and looking forward to some bump and jump tomorrow when that SE change kicks in. Then rest, eat and repeat
Did some supping in amongst all that as well, I think the only thing missing is an LT
The LT is probably not worth it without a regular racing fleet in Qld
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..cammd said..John340 said..cammd said..John340 said..
They've gone the way of the dodo, just like Dacron sails
Pictures say a thousand words.......... looks a lot like your set up getting left in the wake of those dodo's
Well skewered Cam. That was a few years ago, we don't see you out quite so often these days. Are you foiling?
On holidays still so
Foiled and formula on the weekend, Raceboard yesterday, D2 today and looking forward to some bump and jump tomorrow when that SE change kicks in. Then rest, eat and repeat
Did some supping in amongst all that as well, I think the only thing missing is an LT
The LT is probably not worth it without a regular racing fleet in Qld
I think we are going to see regular LT's in the RQ fleet this year, I know a couple of members that have bought them to start club racing, hopefully some techno's again as well.
Just had a great trip nearly 4 weeks from Syd to Bris and back. Had a couple of Phantom raceboards on the roof. They were great for traveling with. We had one sail each and a paddle. We started with floods in Northern NSW when the rain stopped we were able to sup the river a couple of times. Then visiting the in laws in Brissy went supping on the Brisbane river a couple of times a great view of some water front properties, a Christmas eve blast at Manly was great. Then on the way back we had a couple of sessions at Yamba, one on the local speed strip as conditions were good there were a few others on small gear from up and down the coast. While I may not have got the top speed of the day I reckon my average was probably the highest as it was a bit gusty and with a big sail in 12-25 I was planing all the time not just in the gusts. Next day the wind was looking a bit lighter so we went for an expedition up the Clarence and stopped in for lunch at Iluka on the way back. On New Years day we had a picnic sail down the Clarence at Grafton in wind of 5-25. A couple of days at Red Rock where we did some long sup tours up the creeks it was a very pleasant way to check out the country side and get away from the crowds. Our last stop on the way home was a session at Mylestom gybing downstream to Urunga and working back with the tide, a circumnavigation of the Tuckers island before a feed at the Mylestom cafe. The versatility of the board for the trip was fantastic, great for exploring new areas by paddle or sail without having to worry to much if conditions changed a little while we were out.
JB, there's plenty of perfectly good reasons to own an LT even when there's no fleet around, just as there's reasons to own slalom boards, Raceboards, freestyle boards or anything else you happen to enjoy to sail.
By coincidence I've sailed the LT/OD in many of the same places that AUS 368 recently had so much fun exploring. Each style of board does some things well and some things not so well but they're all fantastic.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..
Anders Bringdal recently explained the allure of gliding longboards and it even sounds like he recognises the ease (read accessibility) of sailing them after work for many people. This is why centreboards are still useful on any given Sunday as well.
Anders first came to prominence on Div 2 boards and was a damn fine racer in the early days of Raceboards; he's definitely a fan of all types of the sport, and understands the wonder of longboards.
Nice that he mentions that World Funboard Title he won in '85 as a vital stepping stone to his worlds career, and his first World Cup round in Sylt where he caused a sensation a few days later.
Sailed a Starboard model with a centre board which was great fun . Maybe 150 lt and 2400 ish long. Sailed like a short board when the wind was up and you could drive it up wind. Fragile as F&$K but would fit the definition of a fun board. About 2008 vintage but no idea of its name
Select to expand quotecammd said..Grantmac said..
Seattle has a relatively small, but dedicated, group of racers because it's so close to the Columbia River Gorge and Oregon coast that few people bother owning big race gear.
Both a Kona and LT fleet were attempted to be started but were frankly too boring to succeed, and that's racing where almost any fair class is still entertaining.
Almost nobody free sails raceboards anymore even though a lot own them. My Equipe 2 I think saw 1 day last year?
A kite foiler couldn't complete the winduro. For one they wouldn't fit under the bridges and even on a 20kt forecast about 1/4 of the course will be ~5kts.
The person who wrote that description is very enthusiastic but he speaks with a lot of hyperbole.
If you find plodding around on an LT entertaining then power to you. Just don't pretend it's a performance or even affordable option (my Equipe was free).
You don't deserve to have that Equipe 2, its a classic board that many would love to have, you should pass it onto someone who would appreciate it for what it is. Imagine arguing a classic car is redundant because no one really drives them anymore and new ones perform better, no one would because its so ridiculous.
As for this thread its not about what has better performance it was about what new centreboard gear is available to cruise around Sydney Harbour.
Foiling is cool and all and many are enjoying doing it, myself included but it is not the be all and end all, you don't need to constantly bring it into every thread, Its almost like an insecurity.
My father in-law had a Equipe with a carbon fiber center board. I would borrow it during the summer time and cruise around during the lighter summer winds.
Then one day he was making a run to the landfill prepping for a house move and he...... tossed it in the landfill. I could not believe it!!!
Select to expand quoteJonnyWindsurf said..
My father in-law had a Equipe with a carbon fiber center board. I would borrow it during the summer time and cruise around during the lighter summer winds.
Then one day he was making a run to the landfill prepping for a house move and he...... tossed it in the landfill. I could not believe it!!!
Divorce is the only reasonable alternative at this point...
Select to expand quoteJonnyWindsurf said..cammd said..Grantmac said..
Seattle has a relatively small, but dedicated, group of racers because it's so close to the Columbia River Gorge and Oregon coast that few people bother owning big race gear.
Both a Kona and LT fleet were attempted to be started but were frankly too boring to succeed, and that's racing where almost any fair class is still entertaining.
Almost nobody free sails raceboards anymore even though a lot own them. My Equipe 2 I think saw 1 day last year?
A kite foiler couldn't complete the winduro. For one they wouldn't fit under the bridges and even on a 20kt forecast about 1/4 of the course will be ~5kts.
The person who wrote that description is very enthusiastic but he speaks with a lot of hyperbole.
If you find plodding around on an LT entertaining then power to you. Just don't pretend it's a performance or even affordable option (my Equipe was free).
You don't deserve to have that Equipe 2, its a classic board that many would love to have, you should pass it onto someone who would appreciate it for what it is. Imagine arguing a classic car is redundant because no one really drives them anymore and new ones perform better, no one would because its so ridiculous.
As for this thread its not about what has better performance it was about what new centreboard gear is available to cruise around Sydney Harbour.
Foiling is cool and all and many are enjoying doing it, myself included but it is not the be all and end all, you don't need to constantly bring it into every thread, Its almost like an insecurity.
My father in-law had a Equipe with a carbon fiber center board. I would borrow it during the summer time and cruise around during the lighter summer winds.
Then one day he was making a run to the landfill prepping for a house move and he...... tossed it in the landfill. I could not believe it!!!
I may not use mine often but I'd NEVER throw it out unless it was beyond recovery.
Honestly the main reason it gets rarely used it because I won't keep it on top of my car and I like sailing after work (our days are short). My foil gear fits in the roof box.
That said in very light wind the fun is the technicality and efficiency. The LT doesn't offer those things, it's more like a sailable SUP.
