Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
^^^ and then after all this, they get in the waves 
A kiter post a helpful thread to help us co-exist better, but you still do your usual bagging out kiters comments.
Good post Fredo, dont listen to the usual haters, just proves the saying, cant teach old dogs new tricks. lol
If more crew understood each others sports better and read what they are about to do, instead of burying their head in the sand, we can all exist out there enjoying what we love no matter what you ride..
Peace out.
lol this is gold
Why do kiters need to put 5 shovels of sand on their kite prior to self launching on the beach 
Do they not know sand goes 25m up and 100m down the beach.
I SWEAR they love this and laugh / but my car dose not
When they come in YOUS{shake the tea bag to dry it or something before landing on the sand this also sends shower of salt water 100m all over cars
I SWEAR they love this and laugh / but my car does not
Windsurfers would have to be the most tolerant bunch
just helping as usual to think outside the square
Unsure whether a brick could help
Select to expand quoteObelix said..
When a kiter goes towards you in full speed, jumps just in front, points to his kite while flying and screams " this is more fun!"
..and yes, it happened at Pelican Point. 
He wasn't wearing a hiviz vest, a baseball cap and whooping like an owl every time he got near the beach was he?
If that's the guy (he was here a month or more back) then just hoot at him every time you go past. A bunch of us did that last time and he got the message.
There are special cases in every sport, including windsurfing. Don't let one "special case" make you think they're all like that. The Peli kiters are generally good fun.
Also got to mention Windurfers who overly react to kiters interaction in the windsurf area at Coros, delivering verbal abuse that may not be warranted.
Couple of kiters Mentioned this
Most kiters at Coros are simply focused on controllably interacting with the windsurfers when tacking upwind to south coros and traveling through the break to get back to to there starting point.
Funny enough as mentioned to me from kiters ...... windurfers do find themselves down wind in the kite area going to sail windmills and returning. last thing we all need is over reactions...........
Funny enough had laugh at local Father Son kiting combo haha no names ..........sneaking around at the top end of the reef at coros with 50 windsurfers out , far as i was concerned so be it there 100m upwind but i did wonder how many runs do you do before it fks up, ................sure enough they hooked there kites around each other and all the snott drifted through the break one kite towing the other ...........i actually stopped and tryed to hold it for them on the inside middle section just before it got deep ..gear was moving.......pulling pritty hard as they both walked in over the reef not even interested in retrieval ................i heard let it go ............and a did with pleasure
Ps never herd if they got it back im assuming so but 5kms down the coast
Had another recent classic at Margaret's in a recent comp final, were one local ripper was sneaking around ,he had not dropped his kite in 2 years, the local kiting guys {whom i sailed with for a number of years}told me .........they were frothing
Sure enough where plodding out, he goes down. the kite slapped in 5m up wind of me and he go drilled in backwards on an eight footer, sic to watch, then cam the wind shadow,i fell in the water before popping straight back up and letting rip along with the other 3 in the heat ..........funny enough the local kite boys hit him up with a carton .........we all laughed it off,, but the egg wasn't on my face ........never saw the carton the local kite rippers reckoned i was owed .....but im....sure it will be drunk with them soon some were on the west coast.
^^^^^^^KOTP, good to sea knot ALL pollers are spelling and punktuation nartc's. lol
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..Mark _australia said..
^^^ and then after all this, they get in the waves
A kiter post a helpful thread to help us co-exist better, but you still do your usual bagging out kiters comments.
Good post Fredo, dont listen to the usual haters, just proves the saying, cant teach old dogs new tricks. lol
If more crew understood each others sports better and read what they are about to do, instead of burying their head in the sand, we can all exist out there enjoying what we love no matter what you ride..
Peace out.
His post relates almost entirely to flat water. That's all I'm sayin'.
Your last paragraph is a bit rich coming from you, about 5yrs ago when I complained politely about problems at Dutchies (WA) where it is segregated and you have to be a WAKSA member etc, my post was the same as Freddo's helpful and putting forth the windsurfers POV. But YOU went with the abuse of windsurfers and stirred the thread up.
Pot kettle black.
Select to expand quoteking of the point said..
Also got to mention Windurfers who overly react to kiters interaction in the windsurf area at Coros, delivering verbal abuse that may not be warranted.
Couple of kiters Mentioned this
Most kiters at Coros are simply focused on controllably interacting with the windsurfers when tacking upwind to south coros and traveling through the break to get back to to there starting point.
Funny enough as mentioned to me from kiters ...... windurfers do find themselves down wind in the kite area going to sail windmills and returning. last thing we all need is over reactions...........
Funny enough had laugh at local Father Son kiting combo haha no names ..........sneaking around at the top end of the reef at coros with 50 windsurfers out , far as i was concerned so be it there 100m upwind but i did wonder how many runs do you do before it fks up, ................sure enough they hooked there kites around each other and all the snott drifted through the break one kite towing the other ...........i actually stopped and tryed to hold it for them on the inside middle section just before it got deep ..gear was moving.......pulling pritty hard as they both walked in over the reef not even interested in retrieval ................i heard let it go ............and a did with pleasure
Ps never herd if they got it back im assuming so but 5kms down the coast
Had another recent classic at Margaret's in a recent comp final, were one local ripper was sneaking around ,he had not dropped his kite in 2 years, the local kiting guys {whom i sailed with for a number of years}told me .........they were frothing
Sure enough where plodding out, he goes down. the kite slapped in 5m up wind of me and he go drilled in backwards on an eight footer, sic to watch, then cam the wind shadow,i fell in the water before popping straight back up and letting rip along with the other 3 in the heat ..........funny enough the local kite boys hit him up with a carton .........we all laughed it off,, but the egg wasn't on my face ........never saw the carton the local kite rippers reckoned i was owed .....but im....sure it will be drunk with them soon some were on the west coast.
I must clarify, in light of what i have said ...........they should fk off out of the area ASAP also indicate / communicate there going up wind to save copping a mouth full .
If theres no one out go for it sail where you want ............. This keeps everyone safe and focased on enjoying each activity with out having to predict maneuvers of the other .....Kiters should know windurfing crew got enough on there hands predicting each others maneuvers ............
Select to expand quoteFlickySpinny said..Obelix said..
When a kiter goes towards you in full speed, jumps just in front, points to his kite while flying and screams " this is more fun!"
..and yes, it happened at Pelican Point.
He wasn't wearing a hiviz vest, a baseball cap and whooping like an owl every time he got near the beach was he?
If that's the guy (he was here a month or more back) then just hoot at him every time you go past. A bunch of us did that last time and he got the message.
There are special cases in every sport, including windsurfing. Don't let one "special case" make you think they're all like that. The Peli kiters are generally good fun.
That's the guy...
Anyway, at Pinnaroo Point, I helped one of them once to get back, and another time when I broke a fin, a kiter followed me all the way to shore to make sure I get there safely. So we are all great
Select to expand quoteNotWal said..Fez said..
12. Kiter on port tack coming towards a windsurfer on Starboard tack and the kiter goes slightly to windward with the kite low. This seems to happen fairly often to a few of us and when we tell them nicely not to do that as it is dangerous when we are doing 30+ knots ...they give you a very dumb look. It could all turn ugly very quickly.
Maybe the answer is to educate every kiter somehow.
Yes the according to the regs you should pass by the right. This is the opposite of what we do on the roads.
On the water you see both behaviours so you can't count on either.
Red thumbs?
Not only is this the default side to pass on it also puts the kite downwind.
Select to expand quoteFreddofrog said..gregwed said..
What about when you are on a starboard tack and a kiter heads straight towards you then does a jump out of the way at the last few seconds just when you are about to take evasive action. Happens regularly - is this just a smart a_se kiter showing off that he can jump?? What is the recommended course of action following this apart from an abusive or physical confrontation - Just ignore it??
Yes he could just be a smart ar$e or simply tryng to get a jump in before the empty patch of water downwind of both of you closes up. Either way don't let him get that close and bear away (or head up) earlier. You're happier and he's getting his jollies gliding about.
You just don't get it. That empty patch of water should be under the control of the craft on starboard tack - in this case the windsurfer. The kiter on port tack has an obligation to make any change in course EARLY in order to communicate as early as possible how it intends to avoid colision. The windsurfer in this case has no obligation to change course, unless for some reason (i.e. the kiter is a real idiot) the kiter does not change course early enough and the windsurfer has to avoid a collision.
Segregation is the only viable alternative
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
His post relates almost entirely to flat water. That's all I'm sayin'.
Your last paragraph is a bit rich coming from you, about 5yrs ago when I complained politely about problems at Dutchies (WA) where it is segregated and you have to be a WAKSA member etc, my post was the same as Freddo's helpful and putting forth the windsurfers POV. But YOU went with the abuse of windsurfers and stirred the thread up.
Pot kettle black.
lol, are you seriously upset about a post from 5 years ago lol.
Let it go man,Dont dwell in the past dude, I dont even remember your post, but Im sorry that its upset you for sooo long.
A lot has happened in the last 5 years, my voice has gotten deeper and I now have hair growing in places I didnt have before.
And u dont have hair where you use to have before lol.
Seems even when I make a serious post about understanding other water users and getting along, you still get all grumpy
??
Sorry if a post from 5 years ago is still stressing you out, my posts are all in good fun, like the polers bagging kiters are, so dont take it all personally ol fella and hope you can get over a post that I dont even remember,,,oppps.
^^^ you know damn well I don't care about a thread 5yrs ago but you can hardly talk about dissing the other side...... that's the only reason you come here.
Yawn
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/General/Slow-leak/
Mark, then again, could be complaint and accompanying symptoms of somebody trolling here from Mexico, now and then
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
^^^ you know damn well I don't care about a thread 5yrs ago but you can hardly talk about dissing the other side...... that's the only reason you come here.
Yawn
??????? lol
I made a serious post about understanding other sports?? Not sure why u went on the attack and whinged about a forgotten post 5 years ago ?? Apologies AGAIN if something I said so long ago has worried you for all this time.
pot, kettle, black. ???? Is this a raciest comment at me being part aboriginal???
Can't we all agree to just ignore the idiot.
Even if he doesn't go away at least if we don't engage with him topics can still be discussed and not cut short by his stupid repetitive rubbish. Don't really want the sea breeze forum to end up like the boards forum due to the bickering.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
Not sure why u went on the attack and whinged about a forgotten post 5 years ago ??
You'll figure it out if you try hard enough.
My experience is that learners are unpredictable, kiters and windsurfers, and that's just life. I was having a breather on the beach at Dutchies, just took my helmet off, when there was a loud bang and pain in my head. A learner, doing a beach lesson, had lost control off his kite and dumped it on my kit and the lines grazed my head. He and his buddy got the kite under control as their priority, then checked on me and apologised profusely. Sh!t happens, all good. I told him it was a good opportunity to learn the radius of the kite. Yet I've seen some ridiculous intolerance, that borders on criminal behaviour, based on which tribe you're in. Chill, we're all there to have fun.
Select to expand quotenebbian said..boardsurfr said..
Your understanding is wrong. The "pass on the right rule" applies only to two power boats. If a power boat and a sailboat (or windsurfer or kite surfer) meet, the sailboat has the right of way, unless the powerboat is a commercial vessel. For two sailboats (or windsurfers) on opposite tacks, the starboard sailor keeps course, and the port sailor changes course, always applies, not just for an imminent collision. If a collision is imminent, both sailors have the obligation to do whatever they can to avoid it. When changing course as the port sailor, changing to a downwind course if preferred (but not absolutely required).
I think you're splitting hairs here.
No, not really. Notwal said "Yes the according to the regs you should pass by the right". There are no such "regs" for sailboats, but there is a "pass on the right" rule for powerboats. Sailboats on port tack have to change course to avoid collision with a boat on a starboard tack, but they can choose whether to go upwind or downwind. A windsurfer on a port tack on a collision course with a kiter will typically adjust course upwind rather than downwind, if at possible, especially when the kiter has the lines low or does not seem to be in full control.
The more worrisome thing is that power boating rules and sailboard rules differ with respect to which boat must change course. Here's a powerboat diagram:
For sailboats on the same course, things can be different:
If the windsurfer or kiter on one side knows only the powerboat rules, and the one on the other side knows the sailboard rules, we have a problem. They'll either both keep their course, or both change it, which is likely to keep them on a collision course - just closer now.
In many parts of the world, you have to take an exam for powerboats (and thus learn the right-of-way rules), but not for windsurfing or kitesurfing. Even someone who takes formal instruction in windsurfing or kitesurfing and hears about the right-of-way rules may not appreciate the difference between "starboard keeps course" and "starboard tack keeps course". I have seen experienced instructors fall into that trap.
That leaves us with quite a few different categories of kiters (and windsurfers):
1. Those who don't know any right-of-the-way rules
2. Those who don't care about right-of-the-way rules
3. Those who follow powerboat rules
4. Those who'd like to follow sailboat rules, but don't have control
5. Those who know and follow the sailboat rules
6. Those who alway stay out of your way, regardless of rules
At some spots, the vast majority seems to fall into the first 4 categories. No wonder some spots in Germany require the equivalent of driver's licenses for windsurfers or kiters!
More ramblings at boardsurfr.blogspot.com/2015/03/two-sets-of-right-of-way-rules.html
Fair enough Boardsurfr, but in my considerable experience, the split tack downwind situation virtually never happens in windsurfing/kitesurfing, except maybe in longboard or course racing, and changing course a bit when going broad to avoid someone on the opposite tack is usually pretty inconsequential.
The vast majority of potential collision scenarios happen tight reaching or beating upwind.
Or:
A situation happens at Sandy Point too often where kiters sailing along parallel to the sandbar are being overtaken at much higher speed by a windsurfer. There is plenty of room between the kiter and bank for the windsurfer to pass to windward, but at the last moment, and without looking behind, the kiter changes course straight towards the bank without any warning, (to change tacks) and creates an extreme collision hazard. The windsurfer has no time or distance to change direction downwind, and if he does the kiter is changing direction as well!!
Now we have seen this happen a few times, we are extremely wary when overtaking a kitesurfer on the speed course, but we really have no options except for the kiter to be aware we are there and not take our water room away. My solution is to yell loudly at them to try to make them aware I am there. Not ideal!
Powerboat rules apply to sailing craft when in a channel. You must still keep right to the extent that even if you can only use half the channel to tack upwind then to bad. So you must keep right in the channel to allow other vessels to do the same when going the opposite way. You must also observe the sailing rules as well ie starboard has right of way. A boat going upwind has right of way over one going downwind and the leeward boat has right of way when overtaking.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
Good post Fredo, dont listen to the usual haters, just proves the saying, cant teach old dogs new tricks. lol
I don't. Happy to engage in constructive dialogue but I don't have time for haters.Select to expand quoteking of the point said..
Why do kiters need to put 5 shovels of sand on their kite prior to self launching on the beach
...
Unsure whether a brick could help
Some do it to weigh the kite down, makes it easier and safer when self launching.
A brick would damage the fabric. It's also an additional bit of (heavy) kit to carry around. Maybe a shopping bag, you could fill it with sand and empty it after you're done?
Select to expand quotesailquik said..
A situation happens at Sandy Point too often where kiters sailing along parallel to the sandbar are being overtaken at much higher speed by a windsurfer. There is plenty of room between the kiter and bank for the windsurfer to pass to windward, but at the last moment, and without looking behind, the kiter changes course straight towards the bank without any warning, (to change tacks) and creates an extreme collision hazard. The windsurfer has no time or distance to change direction downwind, and if he does the kiter is changing direction as well!!
Now we have seen this happen a few times, we are extremely wary when overtaking a kitesurfer on the speed course, but we really have no options except for the kiter to be aware we are there and not take our water room away. My solution is to yell loudly at them to try to make them aware I am there. Not ideal!
This is exactly right. They are sharing the water with significantly faster craft. They MUST learn to look behind them before they change direction.
Select to expand quoteikw777 said..sailquik said..
A situation happens at Sandy Point too often where kiters sailing along parallel to the sandbar are being overtaken at much higher speed by a windsurfer. There is plenty of room between the kiter and bank for the windsurfer to pass to windward, but at the last moment, and without looking behind, the kiter changes course straight towards the bank without any warning, (to change tacks) and creates an extreme collision hazard. The windsurfer has no time or distance to change direction downwind, and if he does the kiter is changing direction as well!!
Now we have seen this happen a few times, we are extremely wary when overtaking a kitesurfer on the speed course, but we really have no options except for the kiter to be aware we are there and not take our water room away. My solution is to yell loudly at them to try to make them aware I am there. Not ideal!
This is exactly right. They are sharing the water with significantly faster craft. They MUST learn to look behind them before they change direction.
Yer all agreed with sandy point scenario ........You really should avoid sit in some ones blind spot,,,,,,, when caught in this situation i do try to get there attention by calling out so i am noted.........and or prepare to through a jybe if they do ............Nothing worse than getting a fright ............better delivering one / all been on the end of one or the other ............. reactions are varied ..........
Select to expand quotesailquik said..
Fair enough Boardsurfr, but in my considerable experience, the split tack downwind situation virtually never happens in windsurfing/kitesurfing, except maybe in longboard or course racing, and changing course a bit when going broad to avoid someone on the opposite tack is usually pretty inconsequential.
The vast majority of potential collision scenarios happen tight reaching or beating upwind.
True enough that the downwind situation, as depicted in the pictures I posted, is rare. I anticipated this comment and addressed it in my blog post (boardsurfr.blogspot.com/2015/03/two-sets-of-right-of-way-rules.html).
The same issue applies for other points of sail: motor boat rules are different, and will sometimes give very different results. A head-on encounter is a pretty typical situation. If it is two powerboats, they both have to adjust course:
If it is two sailboats (or a windsurfer or a kiter), only the port sailor has to change course, and he may choose the direction:
If the left "boat" is a windsurfer and the right "boat" a kiter, the windsurfer will typically change course upwind (to the left). If the kiter on the right thinks powerboating rules apply, and changes course to the right, they'll end up still on a collision course, probably cursing the other guy.Select to expand quotesailquik said..
A situation happens at Sandy Point too often where kiters sailing along parallel to the sandbar are being overtaken at much higher speed by a windsurfer. There is plenty of room between the kiter and bank for the windsurfer to pass to windward, but at the last moment, and without looking behind, the kiter changes course straight towards the bank without any warning, (to change tacks) and creates an extreme collision hazard.
I agree that the biggest danger is people changing course without looking, and that some kiters seem to be rather prone to that. Not looking before a jump, and then landing right in front of you when you where passing them 30 m downwind, seems to be very popular. One good reason to always pass kiters upwind if possible (and to change course to the left in the diagram above, not to the right).
Isn't all this right of way talk just academic? No one really expects someone on port tack to yield or is that the mentality now? I'm yet to hear anyone yell "starboard" (except while course racing) so I guess no?
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..
.... and that some kiters seem to be rather prone to that. ...
In my experience both are as bad as each other.
Yesterday windsurfer gybed directly into my path (I was kiting). I did an abrupt change of course but thought no worse of him. Everyone makes mistakes.
btw I fit your 6th category, those who alway stay out of your way, regardless of rules (even though I know them)
Select to expand quoteFreddofrog said..
Isn't all this right of way talk just academic? No one really expects someone on port tack to yield or is that the mentality now? I'm yet to hear anyone yell "starboard" (except while course racing) so I guess no?
boardsurfr said..
.... and that some kiters seem to be rather prone to that. ...
In my experience both are as bad as each other.
Yesterday windsurfer gybed directly into my path (I was kiting). I did an abrupt change of course but thought no worse of him. Everyone makes mistakes.
btw I fit your 6th category, those who alway stay out of your way, regardless of rules (even though I know them)
You don't hear anyone yell 'starboard' to you as you are keeping out of the way. I am sure there are a few people that wonder what it is that someone keeps yelling at them.
I have yelled it a few times, to kiters and windsurfers alike, knowing full well that they probably don't know what I am on about.
On the other hand I have had a few kiters point their right hand, I am assuming as a 'right hand has right of way' type thing. A few times I have stuffed up, but generally its because its not just that kiter that you need to judge, its the kiters and windsurfers behind them that make you choose a particular line of sail. It may not seem like the best one to that kiter, but with the benefit of being able to see the sailors behind them, it usually is.
Getting back on my hobby horse, the one thing that annoys me no end is when you are behind a kiter, on the same port tack, possibly catching up on them, and then they instantly change direction, and then have a go at you for not giving way to someone on starboard tack. Seriously? It's worse when they do a jump in the process without looking around and then proceed to have a go at you for being in their way as they land their blind jump.
Oh well, if nothing else, I have learned that when they get into that stance and look only up at the kite as they are going to jump, that they are just beginners and overcome with too much information to really be aware of what they are doing. Its the same as in windsurfing. In the beginning its information overload, but when you are better, its easy to see things happening a mile ahead and anticipate them.
I believe the worse possible move is to change course suddenly. I have faced situation when someone decided to change course when we are getting very close coming from the opposite directions. I am talking about windsurfers here.
When I see someone coming at me at speed of knots, the most natural evasive action is to change course myself. Unfortunately, the other person also changed course in response So it became quite unnerving as you simply not sure what that person intended to do. A few times, I chose to simply stop. Most of the times I had a beginner coming at me.
Personally, I believe it is better to just stay the course and be watchful. A windsurfer is not as big as a boat or yacht. You can pass each other quite close as long as you keep you line, and don't make sudden change.
On waves, it would be a bit of give and take. Sometimes you make mistake because a large wave is going to crunch you. In such situation, one is likely to get into a "self preservation" mode and paid all his attention to the on-coming waves. As a result, you infringe on others right of way. It is not as if you are doing it on purpose, so no need to make a big deal out of it.
I did have problem with kiters who, for some strange reasons, chose to impress the windsurfers by flying right among them. Their mastery of kites is unquestioned, however, their wisdom is. With such a long bundle of lines hanging off him, all it takes is one mistake and we end up with grieves.
Sure, being able to predict other's decisions is good. It is the same as driving on roads. It is called "defensive driving". However, we have a white line in the middle of the road. That is the demarcation which serves to separate drivers from the opposite directions. That brings me to my point..."separation".
