Here is the NPR article on ivermectin use for covid, of course they do not say if the husband in the case was vaccinated, so probably not. So they would not take an approved vaccine for covid a viral infection, but they were willing to try to force a hospital to give the husband a drug approved and used for parasites to treat a virus, how stupid can someone be?
www.npr.org/2021/09/07/1034947315/ivermectin-ohio-hospital-order-judge
Horrible. Those Trump supporters. I think they need to be completely stripped of freedoms in our democracy. It's easy to find them by opening up voting records and denying services, health insurance, loans, and any medical help to these people. And if such person is dying and no approved medications can help, we shall never use unapproved ones as it can make matters worse.
Select to expand quoteleto said..
Horrible. Those Trump supporters. I think they need to be completely stripped of freedoms in our democracy. It's easy to find them by opening up voting records and denying services, health insurance, loans, and any medical help to these people. And if such person is dying and no approved medications can help, we shall never use unapproved ones as it can make matters worse.
that was the hospitals argument, it could make things worse, but the guys wife still sued the hospital, and a judge had to step in and explain the facts to them. They probably heard about it on a conservative talk show, and everyone knows you can trust everything they say
What is the vaccination rate for eligible people in Australia and New Zealand ? We have adequate supplies of vaccine here in the USA. Locally a bit of an issue with hesitancy and resistance. Almost 90% of over 65 y/o are vaccinated. But total eligible % is significantly lower. Then add the under 12 y/o. Net is probably less than 50% vaccinated. Covid vigilance = vaccine, masking where & when needed, physical distancing where & when needed. Was a healthcare provider prior to retirement. Every year same issue when it came to seasonal influenza vaccination. Low % of population (30-40%) vaccinated. The opportunity for "herd immunity" has long past here in the USA. Realistically Covid is with us forever. Think seasonal influenza. This nasty virus seems to drift, shift efficiently. Having a large population of opportunity is making mutations too easy for the bug.
Does anyone here remember "original" SARS? Old memory, old brain. I think it was H5N1 just before or around the '08 recession. WHO noted +60% mortality. USA and Canada, mortality was in the 50% range. Good thing it did not have the level of transmission as SARs CoV2. My nightmare thought is major shift or reassortment resulting in a Delta level contagious virus and H5N1 level mortality. Think life is inconvenient now. Don't want to consider the nightmare thought.
I bet these two already had a date at the Wuhan institute of virology and waiting to be released somewhere in India. I think your point makes somewhat inverse point.. Same as antibiotics for bacteria, there should be similar broad spectrum thing for viruses including corona. Then these vaccines one would care less about plus they do nothing when someone actually happen to get to ER with corona.
Select to expand quoteOldGuy3 said..
We have adequate supplies of vaccine here in the USA. Locally a bit of an issue with hesitancy and resistance. Almost 90% of over 65 y/o are vaccinated.
Unfortunately, about 20-30% of the over 65 group is not fully vaccinated in many states, especially in the southern US. That's why the "death rate" (raw CFR) is still above 1% in the US. In places with better vaccination rates, the death rate is several times lower. Germany and the UK, for example, have rates of 0.3-0.4%. Numbers are probably somewhat distorted since tests in the US are pretty much limited to symptomatic cases, while many European countries have routine testing requirements.
On the bright side, the US will soon require vaccination for all federal employees, and for companies with > 100 employees (www.npr.org/2021/09/09/1035149651/biden-will-require-vaccines-for-federal-workers-as-part-of-a-new-covid-strategy). Some companies will certainly think about ignoring these requirements, but that would leave them open to personal injury lawsuits from employees that get sick, and to increased health insurance premiums. Some airline companies are already ahead of the law: Delta requires unvaccinated employees to pay $200 per month more for health insurance, and United will put unvaccinated employees that have contact with customers on unpaid leave. That was before today's announcement of the new vaccine requirements, and illustrates that large companies will likely be quite strict - even more so now that they can blame the government.
Select to expand quoteleto said..
I bet these two already had a date at the Wuhan institute of virology and waiting to be released somewhere in India. I think your point makes somewhat inverse point.. Same as antibiotics for bacteria, there should be similar broad spectrum thing for viruses including corona. Then these vaccines one would care less about plus they do nothing when someone actually happen to get to ER with corona.
Oh yes, it must be incredibly easy to create "a similar broad spectrum thing for viruses".
I mean, those people who have spent 30 years studying virology, medicine and biology are all f*ckwit morons compared to you, Leto. You are a God amongst Gods, who can work out the DNA sequence of all possible viruses, work out how to attack them, work out all possible issues and throw it all into one vaccine.
Since you are blessed with incredible knowledge of all things, you must be the world's richest man and can therefore work it all out this weekend. So why don't you? Or is it possible - y'know, just remotely possible - that you know **** all about what you're talking about and should stop being so bizzarely arrogant as to imagine that you can decide what thousands of highly-trained virologists in expensive labs should be doing?
So given you know more about virology than the peasants who actually spent 30 years working in the area, can you please tell us the exact description of what a "thing" is? Sorry, but your egomania brilliance is going over my head. Once you've done that, why don't you win the PWA in all disciplines, with a perfect score? After all, if you are such a God of virology (which I think is a field in which you know **** all) then you must be even better at windsurfing.
Or is it possible - just a tiny bit possible - that the top virologists in the world are not morons who need your patronising simplistic advice, and that what you are so arrogantly calling for is beyond the reach of human endeavour?
Mate, I think that you might have spent too much time in the lockdown. 
Need to unwind a bit and get some fresh air. 
Select to expand quoteleto said..
Mate, I think that you might have spent too much time in the lockdown. Need to unwind a bit and get some fresh air.
Yes, and it shows yet again that the most reliable way to get green thumbs on this forum is to get abusive. That's why we need red thumbs- to cancel out those 1% green thumbers.
I think Leto hasn't quite caught on to the concept that what the world needs more than any broad spectrum antiviral is a universally agreed Sarcastica font.
I might be wrong, but I'm guessing that
"Horrible. Those Trump supporters. I think they need to be completely stripped of freedoms in our democracy. It's easy to find them by opening up voting records and denying services, health insurance, loans, and any medical help to these people. And if such person is dying and no approved medications can help, we shall never use unapproved ones as it can make matters worse."
was just meant to be humour.
Using Sarcastica would make that clear
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
I think Leto hasn't quite caught on to the concept that what the world needs more than any broad spectrum antiviral is a universally agreed Sarcastica font.
I might be wrong, but I'm guessing that
"Horrible. Those Trump supporters. I think they need to be completely stripped of freedoms in our democracy. It's easy to find them by opening up voting records and denying services, health insurance, loans, and any medical help to these people. And if such person is dying and no approved medications can help, we shall never use unapproved ones as it can make matters worse."
was just meant to be humour.
Using Sarcastica would make that clear
Actually, I think he is a trump supporter, all the negative stuff in the beginning was designed to make you believe he was not a trump supporter so that you would disagree with the last sentence and so support the use of ivermectin, "And if such person is dying and no approved medications can help, we shall never use unapproved ones as it can make matters worse." So the person is dying, so why not try anything, bleach, lysol, UV light into the lungs, whatever? Problem is no one said the husband was dying, or that approved medications were not being used and helping. Suddenly trump supports have become more knowledgable than Doctors without even going to medical school!, and maybe college, and even high school too.
Mr. Milk. You are so right
But if we have that sarcastica font, we will never be able to find people with no sense of humor and may miss bashing and profane language so much. 
and logistics on how negative was designed to show positive although positive actually shows negative which actually was designed to go all the way around.
Just finished rereading Alan Weisman's book "The World Without Us". The book has nothing to do with guesses of what or why humans are no longer exist on Earth. But with what might happen to our natural and man made world once humans are no longer around. He did mention CV in one of his chapters. Back in '07, a topic of concern among some people with a deeper understanding than most of us of the potential threat to humanity. CV, just another natural selective force? Bit like the force of time on windsurfers up here. Locally we are an aging, dying population. 3 sails on a Bay covering +50 square miles is a "crowded" day. Unlike the 90's when prime parking and rigging spot were valued.
Select to expand quoteOldGuy3 said..
Just finished rereading Alan Weisman's book "The World Without Us". The book has nothing to do with guesses of what or why humans are no longer exist on Earth. But with what might happen to our natural and man made world once humans are no longer around. He did mention CV in one of his chapters. Back in '07, a topic of concern among some people with a deeper understanding than most of us of the potential threat to humanity. CV, just another natural selective force? Bit like the force of time on windsurfers up here. Locally we are an aging, dying population. 3 sails on a Bay covering +50 square miles is a "crowded" day. Unlike the 90's when prime parking and rigging spot were valued.
Well to give you some hope OldGuy3, I have been windsurfing and now windfoiling on a bay for 7 years, some kitefoilers in the last few years, but only an occasional windsurfer 2-3 max times per year until recently, two other windfoilers are now on the bay as people realize it is great for foiling. Enjoy the company, but hope it does not get crowded any time soon, like having my spot by the water, with trees for shade in our hot Florida summers, available every time I showup!
Select to expand quoteleto said..
Mate, I think that you might have spent too much time in the lockdown. Need to unwind a bit and get some fresh air.
Thing is, Leto, that people write exactly the same sort of thing in all seriousness, so there's no way of knowing if someone is trying to be funny or trying to be taken seriously.
On this forum we've had people who have never been in a bushfire demanding us to believe that they know the best way to fight them; we've had people who know nothing about mobile phone radiation stating as a fact that they know more about their effect than scientists who have spent years studying them; and we have people who have never sailed particular boards stating as a fact how they compare to other boards.
Given that, there's often no way to work out whether someone is trying to be funny or being serious - especially since there are emojiis that can be used to make it obvious when people are joking.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..leto said..
Mate, I think that you might have spent too much time in the lockdown. Need to unwind a bit and get some fresh air.
Yes, and it shows yet again that the most reliable way to get green thumbs on this forum is to get abusive. That's why we need red thumbs- to cancel out those 1% green thumbers.
It's reasonable to get narked when someone writes something that appears to be just another example of the abuse being thrown at scientists and others.
Standing by and watching while people are insulted (as they seemed to be, given that Leto didn't use any of the emojiis to show that he was being sarcastic) is arguably worse than responding.
