Select to expand quotewallymullet said..
yeah the cruiser division is a brilliant initiative of the windsurfer class. Shorter course, racing with kids and adults of similar ability. good intro into racing for kids.
I am not 100% sure but think kids can use any small sail in this division.
if you get an opportunity get your son to try the LT training sail. it does seem to work well with these boards and I think be easier then a wave sail to race a triangle course.
what mast and boom does the school rig use? i'm not sure where to get one in australia.
any 430 or 460 mast, light and flexible is good, it has a very simple adjustable tip. 180 boom. all very low tech but it works. just your standard windsurfer mast and boom is fine so when he is ready to go up to 5.7 sail that's all he needs.
I have heard RQ has a awesome kids windsurfer program, that may be worth a look for your kids?
Select to expand quotewallymullet said..
any 430 or 460 mast, light and flexible is good, it has a very simple adjustable tip. 180 boom. all very low tech but it works. just your standard windsurfer mast and boom is fine so when he is ready to go up to 5.7 sail that's all he needs.
I have heard RQ has a awesome kids windsurfer program, that may be worth a look for your kids?
I have the aerotech school sail that is pretty much identical. Actually think it's the same sail. I have found doesn't work for my son or his friend who are both competent windsurfers.
The RQ program has no windsurfers and some peole there are pretty outspoken about how crap the windsurfer is so I just avoid the place but we sail monthly with the qld windsurfer crew and the boys gain a lot from that.
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..
How many yacht clubs are in Brisbane ?
that's not what i'm talking about here. it's not a club that's needed. it's a pro kids rig for longboard racing and freestyle. like what severne has with the redback for shortboards. a rig that allows accessible racing for kids on the LT or the WOD and is still suitable in higher winds and nimble enough for freestyle. a scaled down 5.7
the current setup is for youth ie. teenagers. it seems to me that now the class has proven to be so successful there are further steps that could be taken.
as a side note. kids rigs are too flat. they can't sail high upwind in light winds. using a 4m youth sail and rigging it flat does the same thing. it kills the lift upwind. not rigging it flat lets the coe sit too high up in the sail for a child.
I'd agree about the kids rigs.
Mine is completely useless - fully battened, monofilm and completely flat.
You'd think the manufacturers would realise beginners learn in light winds and a full soft sail would be better.
They cost too much too. There's one on Sea breeze for $500 2nd hand. If manufacturers were responsible about growing the sport and their future sales they sell them at a low profit margin.
Since its inception windsurfing has followed a manufacturer driven model of what not to do to grow or even sustain the sport. They've focused on high end, new models each year, million versions of everything, all with their own versions of learner/race gear all of which misses the mark because its either too expensive, sails are too flat/heavy, won't go upwind and dilutes racing fleets because it's just one of many brands.
The versatile, cheap LT and it's cross branding has been the only thing that may increase windsurfing numbers in the last 20 years in my view. I reckon LT should make a say 3m soft sail to fit the bottom mast section and let's do away with all this other manufacturer focused beginner stuff.
Select to expand quoteMatStirl said..
I'd agree about the kids rigs.
Mine is completely useless - fully battened, monofilm and completely flat.
You'd think the manufacturers would realise beginners learn in light winds and a full soft sail would be better.
They cost too much too. There's one on Sea breeze for $500 2nd hand. If manufacturers were responsible about growing the sport and their future sales they sell them at a low profit margin.
Since its inception windsurfing has followed a manufacturer driven model of what not to do to grow or even sustain the sport. They've focused on high end, new models each year, million versions of everything, all with their own versions of learner/race gear all of which misses the mark because its either too expensive, sails are too flat/heavy, won't go upwind and dilutes racing fleets because it's just one of many brands.
The versatile, cheap LT and it's cross branding has been the only thing that may increase windsurfing numbers in the last 20 years in my view. I reckon LT should make a say 3m soft sail to fit the bottom mast section and let's do away with all this other manufacturer focused beginner stuff.
yep a 3m and a 3.8-4m with enough draft to make it tunable like the 5.7m
i can't see it working on half the mast though. it really would need an alloy kids mast ($20) and an alloy kids boom.
maybe just copy the starboard windsup sails and tweak it to be lower aspect. Or a version of what bic have with their kids skiffs.
the LT may also benefit from a plate to allow the mast to set closer to the centreboard for small rigs. on the LT the track is a touch too far forward. it's great on the WOD.
When you pull the back end of the boom off on the Lt
T - there is a white coating over the inserts - what is it ?
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
I call fake news, photoshopped buildings
Yep looks dodgy 
Im guessing a pic from the 70's that they added colour and tried to photoshop in the modern buildings??
or
its a modern photo that was taken with a camera from the 70's.
so either way its from the 70's.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
Im guessing a pic from the 70's that they added colour and tried to photoshop in the modern buildings??
or
its a modern photo that was taken with a camera from the 70's.
so either way its from the 70's.
Ain't nothing wrong with cameras from the 70's..... was using mine at the LT meet on the weekend.
Did the camera have side burns and a big moustache ? lol
On a serious note though, can you still get thoughs old style camera "films" developed anywhere anymore?
Wouldn't it be great if you guys put as much effort into your prospective classes as you do hating the Wally ?
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
Did the camera have side burns and a big moustache ? lol
On a serious note though, can you still get thoughs old style camera "films" developed anywhere anymore?
Yeah but it's getting expensive.
Nikonos v / 35mm / fuji pro 400
Nice pic,
but I think you are using your board incorrectly?
I havent windsurfed for a long time , but we use to stand on the deck back then.
He's always off the rails.....
I havent windsurfed for a long time....... but now I'm thinking the LT looks like fun....so I should try again
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
He's always off the rails.....
I havent windsurfed for a long time....... but now I'm thinking the LT looks like fun....so I should try again
It is fun! It's epic to see the face of a freerider or formula pilot with 8+ sqm camber sail when you pass them in light wind conditions on an upwind course. Got it two time last week.
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..
There was a Windsurfer comp in Malta this week - I haven't seen the wrap up yet, but this could be it. Those sails look to modern for it to be an old pic.
"Now listen here young man, I know I promised to teach you to windsurf but getting familiar with an LT now will hold you in good stead in future when your body gives in. It'll prevent you having to kite board as a soft option".
" Yeah thats cool Mr Wippy, but is you playing with my left nipple really part of learning to ride a LT?"
oppps, sorry, thought this was part of the funny caption comp.
All in good fun.
My son learned windsurfing at age 5. This was possible because nowadays small rigs are available. He used a 1.5m2. He went onto a One Design at age 8, but had to use a smaller sail than the Class standard options of 4.0, 4.5 and 5.7m2. Now he is 12 and very competent in any condition. He can use the standard 4.0m2, but due to his weight only up to about 10 knots. Even though it broke class rules, in last year's state championship with 15 knots he was allowed to use a 3.2m2 Prolimit Powerkid rig due to his age. These are a soft sail suitable for the Windsurfer. They come in a large size range, starting at 2.4m2. Other brands make similar rigs. The larger rigs in the range could be improved by a lighter mast.
The current Class 4.0 and 4.5m2 sails have only one batten and thus are more difficult to handle in stronger winds, compounding the problem.
Depending on their weight and skill level, I'd say with the current standard rigs only youth from about age 14-15 can have a decent competition, unless they are lucky to have light wind on the day or they have grown early. If the wind is up they will have to watch everyone else race.
The Cruiser division is a great initiative. But it's for any age, so it is not really for kids at all due to kids being up against adults. Would be good to use the shorter Cruiser course for kids if it was split into kids age groups, eg under 10, under 13 and under 16. We don't have many kids at the moment, but with the right rigs and encouragement we would have more. And we will need them if we want this sport to continue after our large aging cohort has retired.
So with the way the sport is at the moment, it is not suitable for kids competing. But it seems easy to fix.
My boy still loves the Windsurfer, but would be more into the competitions if we had Class kids rigs suitable for the Windsurfer, that are light/small/soft. Something like the said Prolimit Powerkid range that suits different kids weights, kids abilities and wind strengths.
Talking about getting more people into the sport: Racing (except for slalom) is not a spectator sport, particularly when races are held far away from spectator areas. Short slalom racing is far more appealing to watch. So is freestyle. We can't believe freestyle is falling by the wayside in our competitions.
How do we get some positive action by the Class elite on kids rigs, kids competition, more emphasis on slalom and freestyle?
There is a junior division in the cruiser class, also they have different wind limits.
most junior sailing classes have different fleets depending on skill level also.
not all yacht clubs put the racing course miles away from the club.
with over 100 boards at nationals there is so much going on, it's go go go go for the organisers.
having different size rigs available usually means they would choose the biggest one. Evident in the bic techno class and when the wind picks up a lot struggle. Making it a nightmare for the rescue craft.
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..
There is a junior division in the cruiser class, also they have different wind limits.
most junior sailing classes have different fleets depending on skill level also.
not all yacht clubs put the racing course miles away from the club.
with over 100 boards at nationals there is so much going on, it's go go go go for the organisers.
having different size rigs available usually means they would choose the biggest one. Evident in the bic techno class and when the wind picks up a lot struggle. Making it a nightmare for the rescue craft.
what junior division in the cruiser class?
no disrespect Windsufering but you are really missing the point. as an example the smallest techno rig is 5.8m
So it's very clear what is being discussed here is not "Youth" we are putting the case forward for juniors. ie age 15 and under but ideally 13 and under. there are no windsurfing classes that consider that age group.
there are many sailing classes that do.
finally, with over 100 boards at the nationals how many were class racing under 13 years of age?
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..windsufering said..
There is a junior division in the cruiser class, also they have different wind limits.
most junior sailing classes have different fleets depending on skill level also.
not all yacht clubs put the racing course miles away from the club.
with over 100 boards at nationals there is so much going on, it's go go go go for the organisers.
having different size rigs available usually means they would choose the biggest one. Evident in the bic techno class and when the wind picks up a lot struggle. Making it a nightmare for the rescue craft.
what junior division in the cruiser class?
no disrespect Windsufering but you are really missing the point. as an example the smallest techno rig is 5.8m
So it's very clear what is being discussed here is not "Youth" we are putting the case forward for juniors. ie age 15 and under but ideally 13 and under. there are no windsurfing classes that consider that age group.
there are many sailing classes that do.
finally, with over 100 boards at the nationals how many were class racing under 13 years of age?
Did you enter your under 15 year old in any State or National Regatta, that would be a good place to start I would think. In my experience organisers do their level best to accomodate kids but if none turn what do you expect.
A few years back, when my wife and I were running the association, we introduced the Junior One division. It allowed kids to use all sails under 4.5m (subject to the committee approval, to stop someone coming up with something that would give them an advantage). The kids raced in the morning, on a very short course in front of the club at the nationals, using a range of sails from about 1.5m to 4.5 metres. I think it was 2010 when we had 15 kids at the nationals, making up 24% of the entire fleet.
I think we had a division for 13 year olds and under as early as the 2008 (?) nationals, which was the first one to have a Junior division. We can easily require these younger kids to use very small sails, and allow any of them who want to use a bigger rig to race with the next group up. The Barracouta 3.5 never worked quite as well as the 4.5 but a rule allowing any approved rig under 3.5m could work well in the future. The idea for the younger kids, at least, is participation. The youngest kids can even just sail the downwind section of the course, but it gets them involved.
The Barracouta 4.5s were damn good sails, with one full batten and two leach battens just like the normal rig. In a breeze they were faster than a 6, as Jess Crisp (a major driver in getting kids sailing) showed by whipping everyone with one at one stage. They worked well for the older and better kids and were only something like 10% slower than the 5.7s overall, which is pretty good going. In light winds, the kids with 4.5s on One Designs could beat kids on theoretically faster boards in club racing (no names, no rivalry). All the good older kids used Barracouta sails, which were also good for teaching adults.
The better kids would race in the morning on their 4.5 with the Junior fleet, and then go out and race with the adults in the afternoon. In light winds, the good kids would use their 6m rigs when racing with the adults, and fly. In strong winds they could change down to their smaller sails and still race with the adults.
When my wife and I stopped running the class and the DAC juniors, Jess stopped running the Middle Harbour group and some kids aged out, it all sort of faded away. However, at the Worlds when I raised the issue of youth sailing, there was significant interest from the head honchos of various brands involved.
I'm now a grandfather rather than a father of windsurfers. I live inland in the country, I'm running the local sailing club and I'm not on the Windsurfer committee at the moment, but I'm willing to try to help to kick off a group to promote junior windsurfers. We had significant success 10 years ago at a time when the class was far weaker than it is now - we can make it something far bigger today.
I haven't used the current small sails but surely we can allow people to just whack short battens on with stickyback, to stop the leach vibrating. If the current small sails are not up to the job then if we get a group together we can lobby to have changes made.
If anyone is interested in getting a group together to foster junior sailing on LTs, please PM me so we can get something happening. If you don't want to get involved, please don't leave it to someone else but then complain. I'm not going to kick it off alone because I did that once and because of my location and lack of kids, I can't really claim to represent anyone these days.
So let's get on board now, while we can still arrange something for this season.
