I had a really fun session on Sunday on Lake Michigan. North wind, probably in the 20-26mph range. Was on my Levitator 150, i84 and 3.8 Revolution. A little overpowered in the 4-6 foot swells, but still having a blast learning the waves and how to ride. My buddy was on a 3.5 Ensis wing and a 5'2" 110 liter wing board with a GL 190 front wing I believe. He is getting so good at riding the offshore swells! Something that hit me out there is that when I fell, uphauling is a challenge in bigger waves. I wonder if a wingfoil board that is a good size for a beginner would be easier to get going on after taking a break or a wipeout? I am still trying out the Shred Sled used it Sunday in the Muskegon channel after I had exhausted myself on the windfoil. I enjoyed my time on the Shred Sled and it made me excited to try it and actually head out into bigger conditions, even though I can't jibe at all.
Select to expand quoteexcav8ter said..
I had a really fun session on Sunday on Lake Michigan. North wind, probably in the 20-26mph range. Was on my Levitator 150, i84 and 3.8 Revolution. A little overpowered in the 4-6 foot swells, but still having a blast learning the waves and how to ride. My buddy was on a 3.5 Ensis wing and a 5'2" 110 liter wing board with a GL 190 front wing I believe. He is getting so good at riding the offshore swells! Something that hit me out there is that when I fell, uphauling is a challenge in bigger waves. I wonder if a wingfoil board that is a good size for a beginner would be easier to get going on after taking a break or a wipeout? I am still trying out the Shred Sled used it Sunday in the Muskegon channel after I had exhausted myself on the windfoil. I enjoyed my time on the Shred Sled and it made me excited to try it and actually head out into bigger conditions, even though I can't jibe at all.
My experience has been winging is easier to get going after a wipe out in swell when compared to uphauling.
No up hauling on a wing board. You kneel on it keeping you CofG low so can better manage heavy chop. The wing is inflatable with a lot of flotation so you can use it to help balance prior to bringing it above your head.
Once you get the hang of wind-foiling in medium strength winds (i.e. over 13 kts) then you can water start.
Select to expand quoteI really like the WING. It is easier to practice than WINDFOIL and more pleasant when navigating lakes with short lengths. My foil can do both just by changing the wings.
Select to expand quotetintingwen said..I really like the WING. It is easier to practice than WINDFOIL and more pleasant when navigating lakes with short lengths. My foil can do both just by changing the wings.
Nice video, Gwen. Are you still windfoiling on more open water?
Decided to get a smaller dedicated windfoil board that I can also wing (wizard 114). Just had my second session on it, first time on the foil though (just not enough wind that first session so I tried to shake the kook in me out and shlogg around).
It felt really weird, once I had steady flights after crashing a few times, not having mast base pressure on the nose. Overall setup was a little easier than windsurfing, and getting up on a 114L board with a wing vs. uphauling a 115 windsurf (if the wind dropped and can't waterstart) is quite a bit easier. Like recovery didn't even bother me after a crash, in flat water at least. I just got scrapes/rashes in different places than normal.
Once I got used to it, I really liked it but I definitely missed the speed. I was on the infinity 99, could probably have easily flown the 76 earlier in the day but I wanted practice on something slower.
I got all the way through a jibe, once, but fell off foil once I was pointing the opposite way. If I had just a little more speed I would've had it as I already had the wing flipped. That, and the simplicity of de-powering the wing by putting it overhead, made it easy to see the appeal. I was a bit overpowered sometimes on the 6.0 today and I recognized the signs so I just put the wing up and over and it made everything chill, easy, and quiet compared to just sheeting out on a windfoil.
It was also cool, once on the foil, to feel what pumping JUST the foil compared to pumping the board with sail attached. It was a lot easier than I'm used to, and I could feel it a lot more clearly. A couple times I got close to breach/recovery and I could feel what the foil was doing, I just had to concentrate really hard on straightening my shoulder/hip/ankle line so that my front foot pressure was effective, and fight the bending-over posture that I sometimes found myself in.
I kind of want to have a day where I start with the race windfoil and after a long session just switch to winging. I was out for almost 5 hours this time. Normally, around the 2 or 3 hour on the IQFoil kit I'm smoked, but I'm also sailing in a bit less wind that requires a lot more pumping.
I also just like the fact that I can take a <6foot board and all the gear and put it in my car without using my roof rack, and carrying a board that short and small makes it more likely it'll get loaded and used. Can't imagine how easy carrying a real sinker would be.
Started windfoiling for light wind days. Was considering then learning to wing foil primarily for higher wind days. Only needed a foil and adapter plate for wind foiling. Ended up purchasing a foil ready board. So bit more money spent. Never went the wing route. If we had real waves and big swells on a consistent basis. Would consider wing. Right now no need for wing. Wind foil for the light days. Enjoy riding a fin on the higher wind days.
The "latest" in wing tech. From my understanding. Current design and material for wings are not the most durable in terms of crashing and effective life span("bagging out"). New wing made of a thinner version of the X-Ply used in our windsurfing sails. Creates a more rigid leading edge and bit more resistant to crash damage. Shouldn't bag out like the dacron like material used in most wings. No need for windows. ~$1400usd for a 5.2M wing. Makes windsurfing sails look reasonable in price. Another reason why I probably will pass on the wing thing.
Select to expand quoteexcav8ter said..
I tried wingfoiling again today. Wind was 14-20. Used my 6.4 V2 and i99 front wind mounted on a Slingshot Shred Sled. Tried for 30 minutes and couldn't get flying. Got fed up with it. Rigged my 6.0 Flyer on my Levitator 150 with the i84 front wing. Went out a ripped for a few hours. Honestly could have used my 4.8 Duotone Super. Plenty powered on the 6.0.
As for the wingfoiling, I am reasonably sure my technique is not great, but if it's blowing above 20mph I can get going just fine. I can start with either foot forward too, even though I am goofy foot. I really want to wingfoil, but I don't see it replacing the windfoil in anything under 20mph for me.
Side note... I really liked the Shred Sled for it's flotaa.d stability, even though I didn't get it on foil.
I am going to sell my KT Surfing Wing Drifter Pro 6'x20" 130 Liters and just wingfoil on my Levitator when I want to try it again.
Hi excav8er
Had trouble getting up in light wind and it turned out I wasn't pumping my wing up to enough psi
Once I got that sorted I was away 
Select to expand quoteseaanchor said..excav8ter said..
I tried wingfoiling again today. Wind was 14-20. Used my 6.4 V2 and i99 front wind mounted on a Slingshot Shred Sled. Tried for 30 minutes and couldn't get flying. Got fed up with it. Rigged my 6.0 Flyer on my Levitator 150 with the i84 front wing. Went out a ripped for a few hours. Honestly could have used my 4.8 Duotone Super. Plenty powered on the 6.0.
As for the wingfoiling, I am reasonably sure my technique is not great, but if it's blowing above 20mph I can get going just fine. I can start with either foot forward too, even though I am goofy foot. I really want to wingfoil, but I don't see it replacing the windfoil in anything under 20mph for me.
Side note... I really liked the Shred Sled for it's flotaa.d stability, even though I didn't get it on foil.
I am going to sell my KT Surfing Wing Drifter Pro 6'x20" 130 Liters and just wingfoil on my Levitator when I want to try it again.
Hi excav8er
Had trouble getting up in light wind and it turned out I wasn't pumping my wing up to enough psi
Once I got that sorted I was away
That may have been a part of my problem as I am worried about popping a bladder. I foil with guys from MACKite and have had them check my wing pressure and show me where they pump them up to, as well as how it "sounds" when you flick the leading edge with your index finger. I think a big problem for me in light wind is poor technique, but I will keep trying. Especially since I just ordered two new Axis Froth boards. I also bought an F-One Strike CWC 8.0 for lighter days too. Mostly I think time on the water is what I need now.
What I noticed about a good winger the other day is they were flying around just fine in light winds for 30 min. or so, and then they got what looked tired and started crashing and to struggle to get backup (wind had not changed), after the second round of doing they came in and packed up. Meanwhile I kept on windfoiling as did the kitefoilers. When windfoiling if you do not drop the sail, you do not need to uphaul, and you have a platform to take a break on and watch the wingers and kiters.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
What I noticed about a good winger the other day is they were flying around just fine in light winds for 30 min. or so, and then they got what looked tired and started crashing and to struggle to get backup (wind had not changed), after the second round of doing they came in and packed up. Meanwhile I kept on windfoiling as did the kitefoilers. When windfoiling if you do not drop the sail, you do not need to uphaul, and you have a platform to take a break on and watch the wingers and kiters.
Winging is a lot less intense on the body. I've been a busy lately, used to easily do 6 hours on a day windfoiling (and even windsurfing), now I'm tired in 3. Winging is a whole different story, can do 6 hours a day and still smile and go out again in the evening (when it stops being dark at 5pm... hate winter)!
Yeah, plenty of wingers here who stay out and continuously rip for as long as the wind stays or they get mentally bored.
I might be in the learning stage still, but I did a double session yesterday on my shredsled wind foil 6.5m and then 5.4m wing on same foil (Moses 899 wing long fuse and 450 stab). Top speeds were about the same 17knots. One interesting difference was how cold I was windfoiling versus winging. I used much more energy winging but this is prob cause I crashed a lot more, but getting going on the wing seems to use more muscles than windfoil.
This is my windfoil track
This is wing. The middle section I was borrowing my mates Moses 1100
I am starting to hear of light wind winging tendon issues/fatigue etc. and I am one of them.
Pumping the wing takes much more effort than pumping a sail, then you are constantly shifting arm positions, elbows, shoulders positions, lower back. Now granted I could wear a harness while winging but it drove me nuts to have a wrist leash and harness line smacking me upside the head and getting all tangled.
If I wing for 2/3 days in light winds it gives me severe elbow tendonitis and it's not worth it to mow the lawn, you can point higher and go quicker with a sail.
My biggest wing now is 5.5 and so wind min strength will be around 16 mph, I can use a 5.0 sail in 8-16 mph
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
I might be in the learning stage still, but I did a double session yesterday on my shredsled wind foil 6.5m and then 5.4m wing on same foil (Moses 899 wing long fuse and 450 stab). Top speeds were about the same 17knots. One interesting difference was how cold I was windfoiling versus winging. I used much more energy winging but this is prob cause I crashed a lot more, but getting going on the wing seems to use more muscles than windfoil.
Did you go strapless for both wind/wing? Curious about your thoughts on that.
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..
I am starting to hear of light wind winging tendon issues/fatigue etc. and I am one of them.
Pumping the wing takes much more effort than pumping a sail, then you are constantly shifting arm positions, elbows, shoulders positions, lower back. Now granted I could wear a harness while winging but it drove me nuts to have a wrist leash and harness line smacking me upside the head and getting all tangled.
If I wing for 2/3 days in light winds it gives me severe elbow tendonitis and it's not worth it to mow the lawn, you can point higher and go quicker with a sail.
My biggest wing now is 5.5 and so wind min strength will be around 16 mph, I can use a 5.0 sail in 8-16 mph
I have a friend that's an enthusiastic winger and he, too, is complaining of winger's elbow. A few weeks back, we were doing some up/downwind practice and he hadn't brought his harness. By the end of the day, he was quite sore from staying hard sheeted in upwind. And, his harness line complaints are similar to yours. Most of his winging, though, is ocean so the motivation to stay winging remains plus he gets up in nothing. Does suggest limitations to winging in light wind/flat water for those considering both.
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..thedoor said..
I might be in the learning stage still, but I did a double session yesterday on my shredsled wind foil 6.5m and then 5.4m wing on same foil (Moses 899 wing long fuse and 450 stab). Top speeds were about the same 17knots. One interesting difference was how cold I was windfoiling versus winging. I used much more energy winging but this is prob cause I crashed a lot more, but getting going on the wing seems to use more muscles than windfoil.
Did you go strapless for both wind/wing? Curious about your thoughts on that.
Yeah strapless. I have never winged with straps and have rarely windfoiled without straps. But I wanted to do a sail to wing comparison.
No straps windfoiling does make it a bit easier to correct cause you can shuffle your feet around to balance the foil versus just use bodyweight. But if your straps are in the correct spot then you know your front foot is in the correct spot. Straps do aid in pumping and board control.
I think straps are required to get max power out of a sail as you need to be able to stand on the rail to create leverage. Whereas on the wing I was able to rail the board over like a kite board and power up the wing fully.
I was doing similar max speeds but I think there was power in the sail that I could not tap into because I was strapless.
Interesting. So far I've only got the rear strap on the Wizard 114L so I can mount a leash. I hate moving around straps and I have yet to windfoiling on it. Think I'll go strapless on both for now until I decide what I want. I think I've always had my foot at least in the front strap when windfoiling.
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..
I am starting to hear of light wind winging tendon issues/fatigue etc. and I am one of them.
Pumping the wing takes much more effort than pumping a sail, then you are constantly shifting arm positions, elbows, shoulders positions, lower back. Now granted I could wear a harness while winging but it drove me nuts to have a wrist leash and harness line smacking me upside the head and getting all tangled.
If I wing for 2/3 days in light winds it gives me severe elbow tendonitis and it's not worth it to mow the lawn, you can point higher and go quicker with a sail.
My biggest wing now is 5.5 and so wind min strength will be around 16 mph, I can use a 5.0 sail in 8-16 mph
All the leashes in winging make me feel like a tool, especially when I get wrapped up in them. But my arms definitely cannot survive more than a few minutes without a harness.
Select to expand quotethedoor said..CoreAS said..
I am starting to hear of light wind winging tendon issues/fatigue etc. and I am one of them.
Pumping the wing takes much more effort than pumping a sail, then you are constantly shifting arm positions, elbows, shoulders positions, lower back. Now granted I could wear a harness while winging but it drove me nuts to have a wrist leash and harness line smacking me upside the head and getting all tangled.
If I wing for 2/3 days in light winds it gives me severe elbow tendonitis and it's not worth it to mow the lawn, you can point higher and go quicker with a sail.
My biggest wing now is 5.5 and so wind min strength will be around 16 mph, I can use a 5.0 sail in 8-16 mph
All the leashes in winging make me feel like a tool, especially when I get wrapped up in them. But my arms definitely cannot survive more than a few minutes without a harness.
I failed one jibe winging because my wrist leash got wrapped up on my helmet-mounted gopro...I'll have to get a different mounting solution.
I'm riding strapless on both windfoil and wingfoil. I'm not racing or freestyling so I don't see any reason for footstraps. I also don't use harness when I windfoil (I never use sails over 5.8 while I'm windfoiling). Just started using harness for wingfoiling on large wings (6.5 and 5.0). Smaller wings (4.0 and 3.0) no harness.
Since I started wingfoiling in June I almost stopped windfoiling, at least in normal conditions. Windfoiled just couple times for last 6 month when wind was really gusty and up and down - it's easier to slog on windfoil board with sail.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..CoreAS said..
I am starting to hear of light wind winging tendon issues/fatigue etc. and I am one of them.
Pumping the wing takes much more effort than pumping a sail, then you are constantly shifting arm positions, elbows, shoulders positions, lower back. Now granted I could wear a harness while winging but it drove me nuts to have a wrist leash and harness line smacking me upside the head and getting all tangled.
If I wing for 2/3 days in light winds it gives me severe elbow tendonitis and it's not worth it to mow the lawn, you can point higher and go quicker with a sail.
My biggest wing now is 5.5 and so wind min strength will be around 16 mph, I can use a 5.0 sail in 8-16 mph
I have a friend that's an enthusiastic winger and he, too, is complaining of winger's elbow. A few weeks back, we were doing some up/downwind practice and he hadn't brought his harness. By the end of the day, he was quite sore from staying hard sheeted in upwind. And, his harness line complaints are similar to yours. Most of his winging, though, is ocean so the motivation to stay winging remains plus he gets up in nothing. Does suggest limitations to winging in light wind/flat water for those considering both.
Exactly, couple guys here on FL east coast with wingers elbow as well.
I'm fortunate to be living in a very good surf area now so don't have to push the light wind fix on flat water, I'll find any excuses to wing or wind foil in waves though 
For sore tendons and muscles, first I try to prevent them by taking 5 gr of "pure" creatine monohydrate before a session (SixStar brand), and then 5 gr more after a session along with a Perfect Bar (one with 16-17 gr of protein). That usually prevents any soreness the next day, but if not I take 5 gr more of creatine the following morning and any soreness fades away in 1-2 hrs. I used to reach for Tylenol when I got sore from windfoiling and was even taking it before a session, but have not taken Tylenol now for windfoil related soreness in at least a year!
Be serious, guys.
Any time you do something new for too many hours, you will get sore.
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
Interesting. So far I've only got the rear strap on the Wizard 114L so I can mount a leash. I hate moving around straps and I have yet to windfoiling on it. Think I'll go strapless on both for now until I decide what I want. I think I've always had my foot at least in the front strap when windfoiling.
Yeah. I would rather have a second board for winging than move straps. I did not move my foil yesterday between sail and wing and I was standing about 6-8 inches forward when on wing versus sail. I think if you set it up so that your straps where all the foil was all the way back for wind and all the way forward for wing, you should be able to use the same straps.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Be serious, guys.
Any time you do something new for too many hours, you will get sore.
Agreed. wingers elbow is something different than muscle soreness from unaccustomed exercise
I use straps now for winging because I'm practicing freestyle, but I actually prefer strapless for normal riding, especially in waves! Strapless allows to get the balance just right on the waves or when switching from powering upwind to pumping on a windswell.
The advantage of straps in your regular old freeriding is you can bank the corners a lot harder, I always have a small adjustment period in the tacks when switching from straps to strapless.
2.5 years of winging and it's got nothing to do with regular soreness!!
Elbow tendonitis (sometimes called tennis elbow) is a muscle strain injury, feels like a hot knife sticking in the joint, when the wind is light, and you are working the tendon repeatedly to pump the wing and keep the wing sheeted in thus inflames the muscled strained area.
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..
2.5 years of winging and it's got nothing to do with regular soreness!!
Elbow tendonitis (sometimes called tennis elbow) is a muscle strain injury, feels like a hot knife sticking in the joint, when the wind is light, and you are working the tendon repeatedly to pump the wing and keep the wing sheeted in thus inflames the muscled strained area.
Elbow tendonitis can just be inflammation of the tendon from overuse, it does not have to be the same as tennis elbow. I had tennis elbow, and what it is, is the tendon pops out of the groove in the elbow bone (due to the shock of hitting the ball with a tennis racket, or doing a slam vollelyball serve) and then the displaced tendon puts pressure on a large nerve that runs alongside the groove in the bone causing pain. I had a sports physician twist my arm and then snap it hard to get the tendon back in the groove. Pain was gone immediately, but then tendon would pop out again, he then showed how to pop the tendon back in by myself. After 6 months of getting it back in right away, it stayed in, that was years ago. Have not played tennis or volleyball since.
