Select to expand quotejstone1 said..
I am jealous of the wingfoil easy tacking on the foil however!
Can you tack winGing ? I barely manage to gibe once in a while when winGing. WinDfoil is definitly my favorite flavor of foiling...
Over in Northern Ireland, most have switched to wingfoiling. There are still a handful of us persisting with windfoiling mainly on Starboard gear (as one of the lads is an agent for them - we have no wind sports shop in the province).
No point trying to sell the old foil now, as the prices have gone through the floor (thanks wingers!).
I live in Italy, now I am in Greece and I often travel to Sydney.
I don't have exact numbers but they would be in line with others: windfoilers are less than 10%. People have either stayed on windsurfing or moved to wingfoil for its user-friendliness. OR use wingfoil for low-wind and Windsurf for stronger winds.
That's it my friends
It's similar in the San Francisco Bay Area. Windfoil has pretty much disappeared, when I go windsurfing I count the windfoils anywhere from zero to two, and only in lighter winds. Wingers the vast majority. Windsurfers a (very) small minority but with some new young people, and kites probably less than windsurfing. The disappearance of foil kind make me feel a bit better. I bought the whole paraphernalia (the most money I ever wasted on a sport), but I always found it too difficult, and way scarier than windsurfing. Apparently I was not the only one thinking so! 
Select to expand quoteduzzi said..
I always found it too difficult, and way scarier than windsurfing. Apparently I was not the only one thinking so!
You're one more victim of the way winDfoil was advertised : top gear for top gun slalom tuning pros. A lot of the gear that was commercialized by main brands were made for racers. They didn't even think that average Joes would even try, and brands were all too happy for the few overpriced sales to rich riders ready to give it a try (who cares if they can't ride the kit).
On the opposite when winGing came out, most main brand just saw it as a toy for the kids and wives while the big guy would be sailing. And that's precisely why it picked up : it's just no brainer fun. Plus the foil developement was made, and most foil were rideable (wich was not the case just two years earlier).
Now believe me : winDfoiling is WAY easier than windsurfing. Smaller sail, less strength required, way more days with fun condition when you can fly vs ride a fin planning. It's way easier to nail a real flying jibe than full speed planning jibe.
But you have to have the right kit, and top of the line racing foil kit isn't. Saddly, there isn't much winDfoil kit available anywhere, and most is racing/slalom.
The only way winDfoil can resurrect is if foilStyle windFoil picks up, and I believe it is happening as more and more freestylers realise how a foil can spring them up.
Select to expand quote6u1d0 said..duzzi said..
I always found it too difficult, and way scarier than windsurfing. Apparently I was not the only one thinking so!
You're one more victim of the way winDfoil was advertised : top gear for top gun slalom tuning pros. A lot of the gear that was commercialized by main brands were made for racers. They didn't even think that average Joes would even try, and brands were all too happy for the few overpriced sales to rich riders ready to give it a try (who cares if they can't ride the kit).
On the opposite when winGing came out, most main brand just saw it as a toy for the kids and wives while the big guy would be sailing. And that's precisely why it picked up : it's just no brainer fun. Plus the foil developement was made, and most foil were rideable (wich was not the case just two years earlier).
Now believe me : winDfoiling is WAY easier than windsurfing. Smaller sail, less strength required, way more days with fun condition when you can fly vs ride a fin planning. It's way easier to nail a real flying jibe than full speed planning jibe.
But you have to have the right kit, and top of the line racing foil kit isn't. Saddly, there isn't much winDfoil kit available anywhere, and most is racing/slalom.
The only way winDfoil can resurrect is if foilStyle windFoil picks up, and I believe it is happening as more and more freestylers realise how a foil can spring them up.
It takes less wind and energy to have fun windfoiling vs windsurfing. But is it easier? I would say no. Before you can windfoil you need to learn windsurfing. Then you need to learn windfoil skills and survive scary foilout crashes. Then yes, it seems easy.
I love windfoiling and plan to keep doing it because I don't have drive to drive anywhere. My sails are permanently rigged and when the wind blows I sail. If I was starting out I would choose winging for simplicity of the gear.
Select to expand quote6u1d0 said..duzzi said..
I always found it too difficult, and way scarier than windsurfing. Apparently I was not the only one thinking so!
You're one more victim of the way winDfoil was advertised : top gear for top gun slalom tuning pros. A lot of the gear that was commercialized by main brands were made for racers. They didn't even think that average Joes would even try, and brands were all too happy for the few overpriced sales to rich riders ready to give it a try (who cares if they can't ride the kit).
On the opposite when winGing came out, most main brand just saw it as a toy for the kids and wives while the big guy would be sailing. And that's precisely why it picked up : it's just no brainer fun. Plus the foil developement was made, and most foil were rideable (wich was not the case just two years earlier).
Now believe me : winDfoiling is WAY easier than windsurfing. Smaller sail, less strength required, way more days with fun condition when you can fly vs ride a fin planning. It's way easier to nail a real flying jibe than full speed planning jibe.
But you have to have the right kit, and top of the line racing foil kit isn't. Saddly, there isn't much winDfoil kit available anywhere, and most is racing/slalom.
The only way winDfoil can resurrect is if foilStyle windFoil picks up, and I believe it is happening as more and more freestylers realise how a foil can spring them up.
It takes less wind and energy to have fun windfoiling vs windsurfing. But is it easier? I would say no. Before you can windfoil you need to learn windsurfing. Then you need to learn windfoil skills and survive scary foilout crashes. Then yes, it seems easy.
I love windfoiling and plan to keep doing it because I don't have drive to drive anywhere. My sails are permanently rigged and when the wind blows I sail. If I was starting out I would choose winging for simplicity of the gear.
Select to expand quoteNS320 said..
Before you can windfoil you need to learn windsurfing.
Not exact. Most winDfoilers were windsurfer. But I know of a couple of kid that went to foiling before being able to jibe. Select to expand quoteNS320 said..
Then you need to learn windfoil skills and survive scary foilout crashes. Then yes, it seems Select to expand quote6u1d0 said..
But you have to have the right kit, and top of the line racing foil kit isn't.
I've been lucky to choose a foil kit that was easy to start with. Too many were unlucky to choose foil that were not designed addequatly, either being simply rubbish (most low aspect of the early ages) or too difficult to ride because designed for top riders.
And it doesn't seems easier. It IS easier, with a correct set up.
Then I agree on the fact that from the little winGing I have done, it is even easier. But winGing is very different to windsurfing, I felt transition from very average windsurfing skills to windfoil was easier than going to winGing.
That said, any type of riding, you still need to learn, obviously.
Good discussion, I know I'm a stuck record but the foilstyle route is the real way forward for fin sailors who want to dabble. Foils also take 20 off your age, that's a bonus ;)
"Proper" windsurfing is really hard, physically and technically, but I reckon if you're at the standard where you can plane and maybe use a front strap you'll find windfoil pretty accessible and quickly make progress, getting upwind and downwind, going where you want (and generally always able to make it home should the wind drop). Fin takes a long time to get to that level. Plus, the fin carve gybe is *much* harder than a foil gybe.
I used my youngest son as a test case, he rapidly progressed on freeride foil kit after battling the fin for some time. The foil gave a chance to feel what the rig load does and how a board is carved. He then carried that back to the fin (when the wind allows) and is a much improved fin sailor.
That all said I just love seeing people out there whatever discipline.
Around Newcastle on Lake Macq our last race had about 5 windsurfers, 10 Windfoils and 10 Wingfoils over the day but typically we have more like 3 on fin, 10 windfoil and 5 wings racing which is cool.
In Sydney, at the national championships we had I think 22 iQ and me on Formula foil.
At my local spots free sailing we tend to see up to 30 wings, 10 on fin and 5 foilers. Definitely a big swing to free ride winging!
I often find myself on our local spots as the only windfoiler -- but I also have the most fun! 
We have 25 in our Frothers group who still freeride windfoil - about 15 are regulars.
We had 8 together last summer at our ocean spot but usually only 3 or 4.
A typical split on a good seabreeze in summer would be 25 wingers, 5 windfoilers and 3 kite foilers.
We're a niche in a niche but that's ok
We are about 30 windfoilers.
This includes those who practice it as a light-wind option and those who practice it exclusively.
Of those who practice it exclusively, there is a radical slalom windfoil group who combine it with freeride windfoil on days with strong winds and waves, and others, like me, who practice freeride windfoil exclusively in all conditions.
I see that some fin sailors are gradually joining the windfoil group, usually as a light-wind option.
Apart from this, there are several federated IQ foil groups, numbering about 25-30 riders.
On a normal summer day with a sea breeze in the busiest urban spot, there are about 50+ wingers, 5 fin windsurfers, 5 windfoilers, 5 kiters, and 5 kite foilers.
In other less crowded spots, the difference in numbers with the wingers is not as great, and even less so in the toughest sailing conditions.
Select to expand quotejstone1 said..
4 or 5 regular windfoiling here in my usual spot in W Cornwall, UK. Obvs usually more wingfoilers in general as it's the sport of the moment. But I'm glad as it means plenty of ongoing foil design and production is happening! Kitefoiling seems to have disappeared completely tho.Agree with @WillyWind that the familiar power of the sail and harness load is v enjoyable especially when driving it into the foil. I only use freestyle windfoil kit these days and it feels like there's a huge crossover with the manoeuvrability that wingfoil enjoys. A pity freestyle / movement based windfoil isn't promoted more by manufacturers as it's great fun for those who like the carving / rail engaged / wave riding sort of feel you get from a fin on a perfect day.
Freestyle windfoil kit is small, light, and pretty easy bog home on if the wind dies. Plus, jumping and wake/swell riding is great to do too, feels like waveriding on the flat. I am jealous of the wingfoil easy tacking on the foil however!
Excellent description of the pro's of freeride windfoiling and reason why I'm doing it. I am from Belgium, windsurf (wave only) or winDfoil in Zeeland in the South of the Netherlands the whole time and on a busy day at the nearest inland lake I am one of max 2 - 3 (elderly) windfoilers between hoards of freeride windsurfers and wingers. Sadly, all my wave windsurfing friends either totally abhor foiling altogether (the conservative reactionary crowd ??) or have or will adopt winging... No one even considers windfoiling and I have been described by a winging friend as choosing the 'worst of two worlds'. I get his point, and to some extent he is right and I admit being a bit tempted by picking up winging as well, especially for ease of getting in waves , crossing a wide beach and learning tacking manoeuvres, but I am stubornly sticking to windfoiling for now. Set myself a goal that I should be able to do a foiling downwind 360 before getting into winging.
I just love using my 4.7 wave sail in 15 kts.
In my sailing region [SE Queensland], the windfoil numbers are very minimal, and growth is pretty much non-existent. Regardless of this, the few of us here windfoiling absolutely live and breathe the discipline. I don't get hung up on being in a minority. I'm going to be doing this for many more years. We mingle well with the other windsport forms and share the stoke together.
Select to expand quotetonyk said..
In my sailing region [SE Queensland], the windfoil numbers are very minimal, and growth is pretty much non-existent. Regardless of this, the few of us here windfoiling absolutely live and breathe the discipline. I don't get hung up on being in a minority. I'm going to be doing this for many more years. We mingle well with the other windsport forms and share the stoke together.
Nice
Not that my club's situation is a trend, but I can't help but note that after two years of reducing the "fin" and "wind foil" categories in favor of the "wing foil," there seems to be a rethink. In addition to the numerous semi-beginners who want to take to the water with the equipment provided by the school, no fewer than four waterfowlers want to buy a wind foil again...
In my opinion, the biggest problem with this specialty is THE LACK OF A WIND FOILING TEN GUIDELINES.
Once learning and progressing becomes (relatively) easy, people are more willing to spend a certain amount on good equipment. Without this, everything seems cumbersome and needlessly expensive.
Suggestions for different situations and types of foilers should be provided with the equipment...
Zero WindFoilers at Inverloch, too many sandbars. Most have moved to Wings or continue to Windsurf or Kite. Much easier to windsurf here with weed fins to get over the shallow areas. A few of us play in the ocean when the conditions allow. Most continue to play with fins when the wind kicks in.
I live at the far east end of the Columbia Gorge. Locally we have 4 winDfoilers, 6 winGfoilers, 2 fin windsurfers, and 2 e-foilers.
One day last summer my wife and I were walking along the boardwalk in Hood River between the Event Site and the Watersport Park. We counted 310 winGfoilers, 2 winDfoilers, and 5 fin windsurfers.
In the Tampa Bay area of Florida on a typical nice day at Scenic View or 75 Cent or Fred Howard, there will be 5 winDfoilers, 7 winGfoilers, and 7 fin windsurfers. Fin windsurfing (big slalom boards with 9.5 sails and weed fins) is still popular since you can sail over the typically shallow waters everywhere in Florida. WinGfoilers with short masts do ok, too. We winDfoilers have to be a bit choosy about finding deep enough water. My fave spot is the Dunedin Causeway, north side. 6 feet deep for miles.
Select to expand quotew100 said..
In my opinion, the biggest problem with this specialty is THE LACK OF A WIND FOILING TEN GUIDELINES.
There's a lot of experience and knowledge on this board. Can we collaborate on something?
Select to expand quotew100 said..
Not that my club's situation is a trend, but I can't help but note that after two years of reducing the "fin" and "wind foil" categories in favor of the "wing foil," there seems to be a rethink. In addition to the numerous semi-beginners who want to take to the water with the equipment provided by the school, no fewer than four waterfowlers want to buy a wind foil again...
In my opinion, the biggest problem with this specialty is THE LACK OF A WIND FOILING TEN GUIDELINES.
Once learning and progressing becomes (relatively) easy, people are more willing to spend a certain amount on good equipment. Without this, everything seems cumbersome and needlessly expensive.
Suggestions for different situations and types of foilers should be provided with the equipment...
The problem is that windsurf brands themselves have abandoned windsurf foiling.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..
...The problem is that windsurf brands themselves have abandoned windsurf foiling.
More than a few were losing money on it and business in general while wings were flying out the door. We've seen some close shop or about to. I'm not sure we realize how challenging the business is at the moment.
Doesn't help that gear in the US just got from a little to a lot more expensive in the US in the last six months for reasons unrelated to the sport itself.
Select to expand quotebel29 said..
I have more stock than most "windsurf shops" in the continental US
Me too.
Apart from the freeride scene that Azymuth describes, which is ocean-based, there is a decent crew of wind foilers on race, and free race kit foiling the Swan River in Perth.
On a good day there will be six to eight of us out.
The Swan is pretty flat and lends itself to race gear, if that's your inclination. It is mine, although I still have freeride kit for the occasional foil at Cott or up North.
On a good day at Peli there will be 6-8 wind foilers, probably a dozen wingers and some kites, and a dozen windsurfers, so still a good mix. Most windfoilers switch to fin when it's 20K plus, but I love foiling in high wind so it's foiling all the way for me, unless it's windy enough to go speedsailing
Our local pond had 3 windfoilers today. A 50%.increase over the usual 2. Damn, the sport is booming.
Select to expand quotePointman said..
Apart from the freeride scene that Azymuth describes, which is ocean-based, there is a decent crew of wind foilers on race, and free race kit foiling the Swan River in Perth.
On a good day there will be six to eight of us out.
The Swan is pretty flat and lends itself to race gear, if that's your inclination. It is mine, although I still have freeride kit for the occasional foil at Cott or up North.
On a good day at Peli there will be 6-8 wind foilers, probably a dozen wingers and some kites, and a dozen windsurfers, so still a good mix. Most windfoilers switch to fin when it's 20K plus, but I love foiling in high wind so it's foiling all the way for me, unless it's windy enough to go speedsailing
I'm the only one on race kit. There is ine other freerider on K bay. The rest are dingers now
Select to expand quoteFaff said..
The problem is that windsurf brands themselves have abandoned windsurf foiling.
Yes and no.
Only looking the mainstream brands :
Severne still have nice boards.
Starboard obviously always providing, as historically leader.
JP is very interesting. In 2025 catalogue, you have :
transition from fin to foil, 4 good freeride/freerace fin board
easy windfoil : 1 frrefoil board
1 AIO board (plus inflatable variant)
1 dedicated foilstyle board
1 freestyle fin foiling ok.
IMHO, winDfoil will come back with really involved riders (not many, but really hooked) that keep on windsurfin' (for fin). Probably the same profile that those that kept windsurfing in the 90s.
I guess it really does have to do with locality. Looking at the relative numbers in Perth, If you sail on the Swan river, you could be forgiven for assuming kiting is on its last legs. If you sail Safety Bay, you could just as equally be forgiven for assuming windsurfing is. Yeah there are the dedicated few of each sport in each area, but comparing the numbers of this sport and that sport, you would absolutely draw different conclusions.
According to our kiter brethren we don't even appear on the roster, and windsurfing on the whole died the minute kiting became a thing. Apparently Perth is a bit of a fish bowl when compared to the rest of Aus?
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Foiling/Is-kite-foiling-dead?page=1#8
