Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
Aliens are real...
just got mine... 
Which size?
Okay, thanks to Simon @ Board Crazy, a unboxing and first look next to my old Hover 122 with modified footstrap positions. It's a bit long, but hey I love foiling and the next best thing to foiling is talking about foiling
I got the Alien 115... seriously considered the 105, but as this is my lightwind board (currently my do everything board), and I just got a Foilglide 7m I figured I'd go with the slightly wider version, would have loved to get the slightly shorter 105 for a easier fit in the car. This is probably the first proper new board I've ever bought in 15 years of windsurfing.
Reasons for upgrading were:
- Wanting more volume in the tail, its about 100mm thick in the tail and carries most of this up past the mast base. I find pumping in both foot straps works best for me, so this should hopefully float me easily sub-planing with both feet in the straps, so I can really get the foil pumping smoothly. It probably has 80L of volume behind the mast track vs maybe 65L in the Naish. With the Naish when it was really light, you had to generate some initial board speed first out of the rear strap, which when its borderline, and the gusts are rare, can mean if you mess up getting your rear foot in, and your timing is off, you miss the opportunity to get up on the foil.
- Wanting a shorter board to fit in the car. This ticks the boxes @ 200cm, and honestly why waste pointless volume in the nose. This actually has heaps of nose rocker, but even with the Naish with very little nose rocker, I generally don't find touchdowns an issue. I'd personally prefer a bit shorter, I reckon down to 190cm would still be pretty easy to manage.
- Wanting more tail width, a big tick. I've always sailed freestyle boards before this with inboard footstraps, but for freeride foiling, I think parallel rails are the way to go. Definitely found this was a limitation with the hover once I used the 7m sail.
- The Naish construction seemed a bit fragile, I managed to put a few dings in it, so hopefully the Severne is built of tougher stuff. I like to jump my gear, and trying flatwater backloops is fun!
- The Naish has this pointless channel in the bottom of the board which is just a bit narrow for the Flow1000 base to fit in, so I had to make a 5mm shim.
My potential concerns:
- Prior to purchase I was worried that the foil box position would be too far forward to suit my Fanatic Flow 1000, but looks like it should be fine. The centre of the foil mast is about 6-7cm behind the middle of the rear footstraps. On the Naish Hover, I had to run the Flow1000 right at the back of the track, with the -0.5deg rear shim to get it to fly level. With this I think maybe -0.25deg shim in the rear.
- Rear too wide... there are always tradeoffs. Great thing about the Naish was that even with modified outboard footstraps it was super easy to carve and sail downwind in the straps.. this is wider so we will see how it goes. Ideally I want to put foil boxes in my 100L freestyle board for 15kts+ which should hopefully be a stack of fun.
- Still would have preferred foil tracks for better foil options. I've got a Tuttle adaptor for the Fanatic Flow 1000, which seems to fit pretty perfect, not sure how other Tuttle/Deep Tuttle foils will fit.
Other options in my thought process that I considered would have been:
- Slingshot Wizard (but not available locally on east coast, and I'm not a fan of the design of their foils, as all their connections are poorly designed). Really radical board shape tho, and they are doing a great job pushing the limits board wise.
- JP FreeFoil, honestly never sailed a JP board that I really liked, but maybe I just picked the bad ones. Proper reasons are that it just didn't look as high performance as the Severne, and I wanted max volume in the tail.
- Fanatic Stingray, ticks all the boxes, except for length. I can understand why they didn't go radically short, but I think it was a missed opportunity.
- Naish Microhover 131, again ticks most boxes, just really a bit more volume then I really wanted. And has the same pointless channel in the bottom that probably would mean I'd need to shim my Fanatic foil to fit.
Btw, for anyone who isn't foiling yet, the Naish 122 is a fantastic first board in my opinion. Its a bit fragile, and you may want to upgrade depending on what type of foiling you want to do.. but for the price you can find them for currently, you can't go past them.
Perspective on the photos below makes it look almost as long as the Hover, but in reality its way shorter. Its the same width at the front foot straps but a lot wider at the tail.
2 sails on this so far, both with a 4.2m in gusty westerlys. Sunday was about 15-20kts, and today was 20kts+, definitely felt overpowered today, but was still super fun.
Good things I noticed:
- Super nimble, you definitely feel the reduced swing weight. Didn't feel too big for my 75ish kg in 20kts.
- Seems super stiff under foot, just feels solid... Feels like my freestyle board does underfoot, without that slightly springy feeling you get with some of the lightweight slalom board constructions.
- Volume in the tail means its mega easy to slog when required.
- Foot strap positions are really comfortable, will see what its like when I get a chance with the bigger sails.
- No problems carving or sailing downwind with both feet in the straps.
- Massive amounts of nose rocker, so it really bounces off the water whenever you touch, with minimal speed loss. Saves you in a lot of occasions that previously would have meant coming to a dead stop.
- Had heaps of fun jumping it, was a bit over powered so no backloop attempts, but some fun rocket airs. Definitely feel the lack of nose in the air, and its really easy to control the board in the air even in gusty conditions. Still have plenty of speed left in the foil, so keen to see how it goes once I get a proper handle on it.
- Severne footstraps dont hold much water which is great.
- Works fine with the Flow1000 with -0.5deg rear stabiliser shim. Foot straps are both set up 1 hole from the front... pretty good guess and seems to be bang on.
Possibly bad things:
- Doesn't seem to pump very well, but its a bit hard to say in gusty 4.2 weather. And the sail isn't really soft and easy to pump. I suspect lack of water line length due to board length and extreme rocker, may work a little bit against the tail volume advantage, so this is still to be determined.
- I did find that the foot straps are a bit narrow, so had sore feet midway through the first session, it came good and no issues second session. Might just have gotten used to it?
- No goretex vent plug on this thing... I never touch my vent plug anyway, but some people prefer them. I thought most of the Severne boards had them...
- Trickier to uphaul than a standard length board. Need to put one foot just in front of mast, and back foot between front straps, and it will try and round up into the wind.
- Nose rocker means the nose will probably be pretty vulnerable to mast hits.
p.s. for SEQ sailors, Bongaree @ Bribie, is a million times better than Wello...
Stuffed the nose in the water
But saved by the nose rocker?
gybe entry
carving upwind
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
Okay, thanks to Simon @ Board Crazy, a unboxing and first look next to my old Hover 122 with modified footstrap positions. It's a bit long, but hey I love foiling and the next best thing to foiling is talking about foiling
I got the Alien 115... seriously considered the 105, but as this is my lightwind board (currently my do everything board), and I just got a Foilglide 7m I figured I'd go with the slightly wider version, would have loved to get the slightly shorter 105 for a easier fit in the car. This is probably the first proper new board I've ever bought in 15 years of windsurfing.
Reasons for upgrading were:
- Wanting more volume in the tail, its about 100mm thick in the tail and carries most of this up past the mast base. I find pumping in both foot straps works best for me, so this should hopefully float me easily sub-planing with both feet in the straps, so I can really get the foil pumping smoothly. It probably has 80L of volume behind the mast track vs maybe 65L in the Naish. With the Naish when it was really light, you had to generate some initial board speed first out of the rear strap, which when its borderline, and the gusts are rare, can mean if you mess up getting your rear foot in, and your timing is off, you miss the opportunity to get up on the foil.
- Wanting a shorter board to fit in the car. This ticks the boxes @ 200cm, and honestly why waste pointless volume in the nose. This actually has heaps of nose rocker, but even with the Naish with very little nose rocker, I generally don't find touchdowns an issue. I'd personally prefer a bit shorter, I reckon down to 190cm would still be pretty easy to manage.
- Wanting more tail width, a big tick. I've always sailed freestyle boards before this with inboard footstraps, but for freeride foiling, I think parallel rails are the way to go. Definitely found this was a limitation with the hover once I used the 7m sail.
- The Naish construction seemed a bit fragile, I managed to put a few dings in it, so hopefully the Severne is built of tougher stuff. I like to jump my gear, and trying flatwater backloops is fun!
- The Naish has this pointless channel in the bottom of the board which is just a bit narrow for the Flow1000 base to fit in, so I had to make a 5mm shim.
My potential concerns:
- Prior to purchase I was worried that the foil box position would be too far forward to suit my Fanatic Flow 1000, but looks like it should be fine. The centre of the foil mast is about 6-7cm behind the middle of the rear footstraps. On the Naish Hover, I had to run the Flow1000 right at the back of the track, with the -0.5deg rear shim to get it to fly level. With this I think maybe -0.25deg shim in the rear.
- Rear too wide... there are always tradeoffs. Great thing about the Naish was that even with modified outboard footstraps it was super easy to carve and sail downwind in the straps.. this is wider so we will see how it goes. Ideally I want to put foil boxes in my 100L freestyle board for 15kts+ which should hopefully be a stack of fun.
- Still would have preferred foil tracks for better foil options. I've got a Tuttle adaptor for the Fanatic Flow 1000, which seems to fit pretty perfect, not sure how other Tuttle/Deep Tuttle foils will fit.
Other options in my thought process that I considered would have been:
- Slingshot Wizard (but not available locally on east coast, and I'm not a fan of the design of their foils, as all their connections are poorly designed). Really radical board shape tho, and they are doing a great job pushing the limits board wise.
- JP FreeFoil, honestly never sailed a JP board that I really liked, but maybe I just picked the bad ones. Proper reasons are that it just didn't look as high performance as the Severne, and I wanted max volume in the tail.
- Fanatic Stingray, ticks all the boxes, except for length. I can understand why they didn't go radically short, but I think it was a missed opportunity.
- Naish Microhover 131, again ticks most boxes, just really a bit more volume then I really wanted. And has the same pointless channel in the bottom that probably would mean I'd need to shim my Fanatic foil to fit.
Btw, for anyone who isn't foiling yet, the Naish 122 is a fantastic first board in my opinion. Its a bit fragile, and you may want to upgrade depending on what type of foiling you want to do.. but for the price you can find them for currently, you can't go past them.
Perspective on the photos below makes it look almost as long as the Hover, but in reality its way shorter. Its the same width at the front foot straps but a lot wider at the tail.
Great review, you put a lot working into that, thanks for sharing it
Regarding your old board Nash 122, I had go on one these a few weeks ago, without any doubt the hardest board I have ever tried to uphaul (unstable and sinky) , I am 80kg and pity anyone at my weight learning to foil on this board, I find it way easier to unhaul on my 100 slalom board,
Is this classed as a advanced foil board or a learner board ?
I don't think the warranty covers jumping...
RE pumping being hard I think you might have the foot straps too far forward for your weight. I have the 125 Alien with a body weight of 110kg. I use the foot straps in the second hole from the front. I tried it all the way forward but found it sticks too much to the water. It gives you a bit more range on the upper end but you'll loose the easy lift on the low end.
Did you get a chance to try the 105? At 75kg you'd probably be better off with the smaller board.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..
I don't think the warranty covers jumping...
This would be a disadvantage.
Even JP shows jumping with freefoil board at their product page:
jp-australia.com/p/foil-boards/freefoil-2/
Tonyk, I didn't have any issues uphauling on the Hover122. As far as I'm aware it's not meant to be a particularly advanced board. I got up to about 78kg at heaviest, but I also really only ever used it with 4.2-5.7m sails, had one session with the 7m foilglide before I changed boards.
Stehsegler, I didn't check the warranty, but if it doesn't cover jumping... i.e. having fun, then I'll probably have to take back most of the good things I have said about it.
That's one reason why for me the slingshot foils are a complete non starter. Their garbage fuselage to mast design, IMO the worst in the whole industry, means that it's extremely easy to snap the whole fuse off. First time I jumped one it broke off, luckily the massive i99 wing floats. It's possibly less likely to happen with their smaller wings, but I also suspect they won't float. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection is extremely poorly engineered compared to the competition, and the downforce gobblygook in their marketing speak doesn't give me any confidence either. Sorry off topic!
I'll have a play with footstrap positions, only issue is with the fanatic flow1000 I'm already at -0.5deg rear stab, so if I moved the footstraps back I'll have to probably make up a -0.75 or -1deg shim not hard, just have to get around to it. At the moment it sails very balanced, not front or rear foot biased. Will do some more tuning once I get out in lighter conditions.
Didn't get a chance to demo, as the impression I get is that availability won't be great. Plus for where I sail most days would be 8-15kts flat water, and to be able to carry the 7m foilglide they recommended the 115L. I could possibly go a large foil wing and smaller sails, but without swells to chase I reckon it'd be boring pretty quick going that slow. Different strokes for different folks.
Patk, I agree it would be a disadvantage. That said, for everything I've seen and experienced so far with the Alien, I think it's definitely a superior board for my style of sailing. For stronger winds I'd like to try a setup like Balz sails!
Thats all said, I've only been foiling for about 4 months now, so I may progress past the 115L, time will tell.
I forgot to mention the Starboard FoilX boards too, which look pretty fun, only reason I didn't get one was due to the sizing being either 105 or 145, so a bit smaller than I'm currently willing to go, or way too big.
Select to expand quotePatK said..
This would be a disadvantage.
Even JP shows jumping with freefoil board at their product page:
I think they specially designed the Freefoil for that purpose. Just like Slingshot has the "Freestyle". The Alien compares more to a Slingshot Wizard.
That said it would be interesting to see JP honours a warranty if the foil box is ripped out of the board.
The JP has two additional US boxes. So the whole back area must be reinforced. A good chance to survive some jumps
Select to expand quotePatK said..
The JP has two additional US boxes. So the whole back area must be reinforced. A good chance to survive some jumps
Who knows. Given how light boards are these days it would be a serious engineering challenge to reinforce the entire back of the board while keeping the manufacturing costs at an affordable level.
Would be great to see one of them cut in half. Any takers?
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..PatK said..
The JP has two additional US boxes. So the whole back area must be reinforced. A good chance to survive some jumps
Who knows. Given how light boards are these days it would be a serious engineering challenge to reinforce the entire back of the board while keeping the manufacturing costs at an affordable level.
Would be great to see one of them cut in half. Any takers?
And a cost challenge. To do it right requires a lot of high density PVC foam which isn't cheap.
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
Tonyk, I didn't have any issues uphauling on the Hover122. As far as I'm aware it's not meant to be a particularly advanced board. I got up to about 78kg at heaviest, but I also really only ever used it with 4.2-5.7m sails, had one session with the 7m foilglide before I changed boards.
Stehsegler, I didn't check the warranty, but if it doesn't cover jumping... i.e. having fun, then I'll probably have to take back most of the good things I have said about it.
That's one reason why for me the slingshot foils are a complete non starter. Their garbage fuselage to mast design, IMO the worst in the whole industry, means that it's extremely easy to snap the whole fuse off. First time I jumped one it broke off, luckily the massive i99 wing floats. It's possibly less likely to happen with their smaller wings, but I also suspect they won't float. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection is extremely poorly engineered compared to the competition, and the downforce gobblygook in their marketing speak doesn't give me any confidence either. Sorry off topic!
I'll have a play with footstrap positions, only issue is with the fanatic flow1000 I'm already at -0.5deg rear stab, so if I moved the footstraps back I'll have to probably make up a -0.75 or -1deg shim not hard, just have to get around to it. At the moment it sails very balanced, not front or rear foot biased. Will do some more tuning once I get out in lighter conditions.
Didn't get a chance to demo, as the impression I get is that availability won't be great. Plus for where I sail most days would be 8-15kts flat water, and to be able to carry the 7m foilglide they recommended the 115L. I could possibly go a large foil wing and smaller sails, but without swells to chase I reckon it'd be boring pretty quick going that slow. Different strokes for different folks.
Patk, I agree it would be a disadvantage. That said, for everything I've seen and experienced so far with the Alien, I think it's definitely a superior board for my style of sailing. For stronger winds I'd like to try a setup like Balz sails!
Thats all said, I've only been foiling for about 4 months now, so I may progress past the 115L, time will tell.
I forgot to mention the Starboard FoilX boards too, which look pretty fun, only reason I didn't get one was due to the sizing being either 105 or 145, so a bit smaller than I'm currently willing to go, or way too big.
Thanks for the feedback, could be that I am just spoilt with all the buoyancy in the JP135
Cheers Tony
Select to expand quotetonyk said..swoosh said..
Tonyk, I didn't have any issues uphauling on the Hover122. As far as I'm aware it's not meant to be a particularly advanced board. I got up to about 78kg at heaviest, but I also really only ever used it with 4.2-5.7m sails, had one session with the 7m foilglide before I changed boards.
Stehsegler, I didn't check the warranty, but if it doesn't cover jumping... i.e. having fun, then I'll probably have to take back most of the good things I have said about it.
That's one reason why for me the slingshot foils are a complete non starter. Their garbage fuselage to mast design, IMO the worst in the whole industry, means that it's extremely easy to snap the whole fuse off. First time I jumped one it broke off, luckily the massive i99 wing floats. It's possibly less likely to happen with their smaller wings, but I also suspect they won't float. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection is extremely poorly engineered compared to the competition, and the downforce gobblygook in their marketing speak doesn't give me any confidence either. Sorry off topic!
I'll have a play with footstrap positions, only issue is with the fanatic flow1000 I'm already at -0.5deg rear stab, so if I moved the footstraps back I'll have to probably make up a -0.75 or -1deg shim not hard, just have to get around to it. At the moment it sails very balanced, not front or rear foot biased. Will do some more tuning once I get out in lighter conditions.
Didn't get a chance to demo, as the impression I get is that availability won't be great. Plus for where I sail most days would be 8-15kts flat water, and to be able to carry the 7m foilglide they recommended the 115L. I could possibly go a large foil wing and smaller sails, but without swells to chase I reckon it'd be boring pretty quick going that slow. Different strokes for different folks.
Patk, I agree it would be a disadvantage. That said, for everything I've seen and experienced so far with the Alien, I think it's definitely a superior board for my style of sailing. For stronger winds I'd like to try a setup like Balz sails!
Thats all said, I've only been foiling for about 4 months now, so I may progress past the 115L, time will tell.
I forgot to mention the Starboard FoilX boards too, which look pretty fun, only reason I didn't get one was due to the sizing being either 105 or 145, so a bit smaller than I'm currently willing to go, or way too big.
Thanks for the feedback, could be that I am just spoilt with all the buoyancy in the JP135
Cheers Tony
The JP 135 is an awesome foil board. Its the one i'd go for if i was freefoiling and not racing, although its decent enough for racing gear too.
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..That's one reason why for me the slingshot foils are a complete non starter. Their garbage fuselage to mast design, IMO the worst in the whole industry, means that it's extremely easy to snap the whole fuse off. First time I jumped one it broke off, luckily the massive i99 wing floats. It's possibly less likely to happen with their smaller wings, but I also suspect they won't float. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection is extremely poorly engineered compared to the competition, and the downforce gobblygook in their marketing speak doesn't give me any confidence either. Sorry off topic!
So bad yet somehow 3 of us here in Perth have had 1500+ superfun sessions on Slingshot - mostly riding ocean swells in all winds.
We replaced the original titanium mast/fuse bolts with stainless steel ($4), and then as insurance replace the stainless bolts every 6 months or so (SS bends not snaps in shorebreak carnage).
Yes, fuselages can break - I've broken both Naish and Slingshot, but that's after 100's of powered-up sessions (and hitting a reef and big fish at full speed) - and Slingshot replaced everything under warranty.
Slingshot is awesome, one of the least expensive foils in Oz 
The 76 and 65 wings make gybing super easy, you can do 360's, jumps, fang superquick over chop and powercarve downwind - flat water or big ocean swells, 10 to 35 knots of wind.
What more do you want? 
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..swoosh said..That's one reason why for me the slingshot foils are a complete non starter. Their garbage fuselage to mast design, IMO the worst in the whole industry, means that it's extremely easy to snap the whole fuse off. First time I jumped one it broke off, luckily the massive i99 wing floats. It's possibly less likely to happen with their smaller wings, but I also suspect they won't float. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection is extremely poorly engineered compared to the competition, and the downforce gobblygook in their marketing speak doesn't give me any confidence either. Sorry off topic!
So bad yet somehow 3 of us here in Perth have had 1500+ superfun sessions on Slingshot - mostly riding ocean swells in all winds.
We replaced the original titanium mast/fuse bolts with stainless steel ($4), and then as insurance replace the stainless bolts every 6 months or so (SS bends not snaps in shorebreak carnage).
Yes, fuselages can break - I've broken both Naish and Slingshot, but that's after 100's of powered-up sessions (and hitting a reef and big fish at full speed) - and Slingshot replaced everything under warranty.
Slingshot is awesome, one of the least expensive foils in Oz
The 76 and 65 wings make gybing super easy, you can do 360's, jumps, fang superquick over chop and powercarve downwind - flat water or big ocean swells, 10 to 35 knots of wind.
What more do you want?
I agree wholeheartedly about the slingshot. Love my 76 for carving and jumping. I have bent a mast (my own fault) but have had no problems with the fuselage to mast connection.
How do you get warranty on a foil that you hit a reef or fish with? Isn't that operator error rather than product issue?
Select to expand quoteMitch Pearson said..How do you get warranty on a foil that you hit a reef or fish with? Isn't that operator error rather than product issue?
The foil survived the reef crash and fish strike intact, the fuse snapped many sessions later.
In hindsight, I think it may have contributed to metal fatigue - I'm lucky enough to foil often. But who really knows?
Slingshot didn't quibble with the warranty
Aluminium fatigue in combination with salt water is a big problem even if you rinse with freshwater after every sail. The main reason why it's used in foils is because it's light and relatively easy to extrude (ie procure in China). Carbon would probably be preferable but it's more expensive.
I can't see foiling gaining mass market traction if the foil / board combo costs between $5,000 and $6,000. I think the sweat spot will sit somewhere around $3,500 for the whole package.
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..swoosh said..That's one reason why for me the slingshot foils are a complete non starter. Their garbage fuselage to mast design, IMO the worst in the whole industry, means that it's extremely easy to snap the whole fuse off. First time I jumped one it broke off, luckily the massive i99 wing floats. It's possibly less likely to happen with their smaller wings, but I also suspect they won't float. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection is extremely poorly engineered compared to the competition, and the downforce gobblygook in their marketing speak doesn't give me any confidence either. Sorry off topic!
So bad yet somehow 3 of us here in Perth have had 1500+ superfun sessions on Slingshot - mostly riding ocean swells in all winds.
We replaced the original titanium mast/fuse bolts with stainless steel ($4), and then as insurance replace the stainless bolts every 6 months or so (SS bends not snaps in shorebreak carnage).
Yes, fuselages can break - I've broken both Naish and Slingshot, but that's after 100's of powered-up sessions (and hitting a reef and big fish at full speed) - and Slingshot replaced everything under warranty.
Slingshot is awesome, one of the least expensive foils in Oz
The 76 and 65 wings make gybing super easy, you can do 360's, jumps, fang superquick over chop and powercarve downwind - flat water or big ocean swells, 10 to 35 knots of wind.
What more do you want?
There is no doubt that Slingshot have the price/performance ratio in the sweet spot; Like you say their foils have very good performance and characteristics for the design intent and are really well priced. But as Swoosh said if we're talking about engineering best practice they are not great. Having 2 titanium fasteners (as standard) in single shear holding the fuselage on, which is a joint subject to high lateral torque loading is pretty silly. The percentage elongation of a Ti fastener at failure is about 10%....IE stuff all, 316 S/S is about 50%....which is why, as you found out, you swap them out. I'd say as factory supplied if you jumped it and landed a bit tip first on the main foil it would be pretty damn easy to snap the whole thing off in an instant, which sounds like what Swoosh did. The way that connection is designed is asking a massive amount from those two bolts and it's simply not going to be very rigid which is why I've seen a fair bit of discussion about the bolts coming lose/failures on here.
Now with that said, they are built to a price, which is why they are the way they are. The extra machining and probably different mast extrusion required to have a better mast/fuse joint would obviously add a lot to the price.
Select to expand quoteCJW said..
Having 2 titanium fasteners (as standard) in single shear holding the fuselage on, which is a joint subject to high lateral torque loading is pretty silly.
Silly yes... doable with 10mm titanium bolts? Absolutely. I am wild guessing the bolts they use aren't quality titanium bolts. Just like Neil Pryde seems to be incapable of providing none rusting SS bolts for their $1,300 carbon booms.
This is probably a supply issue. None of these companies would have a metalurgy department testing the quality of materials delivered. Some of the stories I have heard from big companies in terms of where they are getting supplies such as bolts, paints etc for their plants in China from is quite frankly hair raising.
I remember years ago while doing some data analysis for AEG talking to their QA department. From paints that suddenly contained led (because the supplier in China switched to a cheaper components) to bolts being made of compound metals rather then say pure stainless stell that matched the rating, plastics suddenly containing toxins, CFCs being used despite bans, the use of asbestos in materials... the stories went on and on. Having been burned before they sampled and tested every shipment that came in before it was released for production.
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
That's one reason why for me the slingshot foils are a complete non starter. Their garbage fuselage to mast design, IMO the worst in the whole industry, means that it's extremely easy to snap the whole fuse off. First time I jumped one it broke off, luckily the massive i99 wing floats. It's possibly less likely to happen with their smaller wings, but I also suspect they won't float. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection is extremely poorly engineered compared to the competition, and the downforce gobblygook in their marketing speak doesn't give me any confidence either.
The one thing the Slingshot fuselage connection does provide is 3 different mast placements. Withou a track mount for the foil this is the only way I can see to adjust the foil location on the board. With no standardisation between manufacturers for distances between mast track & Tuttle box, this is a big advantage. A fuselage with 3 different mast sized holes cut into it would have little strength, so the price you pay for this adjustment is a bolt on foil mast fitting. Fine by me!
Anecdotes are great, and it's awesome that you guys are stoked on foiling. No doubt Slingshot have invested plenty in marketing and appear to in your case done a good job honouring warranties. Everyone's experience will vary, and from what it seems you guys have had a lot of fun on the slingshot foils and have had excellent support from your local retailer, which are the most important things.
But I'm more interested in hard facts, and you don't need to do an engineering analysis to see that slingshot has a few design deficits where other brands have now leapfrogged them. None of the products out there are perfect, so let's not pretend slingshot is. As you can see from my reviews, unlike some others I'll clearly highlight the downsides as well as the upsides. I'll so a full review of the Flow1000 once I've had a few more sessions.
Slingshot may have been a clear performance leader 18 months ago when the competition was the Naish WS1 and NP Pinkie, but that's no longer the case. Let's also not forget the first gen Fanatic foils which were about as stiff as a noodle. Pricing wise Slingshot, Fanatic, NP, Naish are all similar... Slingshot might actually be the more expensive. No idea about Starboard.
The difference is Fanatic, NP, Starboard and Naish have all realised that the gen1 masts weren't strong enough and have upgraded to a beefier mast whereas slingshot has not. Everyone has also realised that some kind of spigot or recess in the mast to fuselage connection is a good idea... Except slingshot. Will be interesting if they finally update their design when the 2021 gear comes out.
End of the day, any of the current or previous crop of gear will get you out there foiling and doing all the manouvers, and I had heaps of fun on the Naish WS1. $1500 for second hand board + foil was the perfect entry point for me. But with some foil experience under my belt, I'd probably select the slingshot last, I'm not interested in sailing in again with the foil balanced on my board, and the rear stab jammed in the footstraps cause it couldn't handle a jump. I'd rather rely on the product being well engineered from the beginning, rather than a warranty process. That said I'd always recommend people buy something that they have good local support for, and for many people that's slingshot, and good luck to them.
Select to expand quotegregwho said..swoosh said..
That's one reason why for me the slingshot foils are a complete non starter. Their garbage fuselage to mast design, IMO the worst in the whole industry, means that it's extremely easy to snap the whole fuse off. First time I jumped one it broke off, luckily the massive i99 wing floats. It's possibly less likely to happen with their smaller wings, but I also suspect they won't float. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection is extremely poorly engineered compared to the competition, and the downforce gobblygook in their marketing speak doesn't give me any confidence either.
The one thing the Slingshot fuselage connection does provide is 3 different mast placements. Withou a track mount for the foil this is the only way I can see to adjust the foil location on the board. With no standardisation between manufacturers for distances between mast track & Tuttle box, this is a big advantage. A fuselage with 3 different mast sized holes cut into it would have little strength, so the price you pay for this adjustment is a bolt on foil mast fitting. Fine by me!
Shims on the rear stab seems to work for everyone else. And if rather not have superfluous holes in my fuse if not required.
Anyone else in this thread sailed the alien and have anything else to add? Between the front wing wobble, and confusion about rear stabiliser orientation and stabiliser size threads there is enough slingshot threads already.
Back to topic... it's great to see the production version of the Alien has an outboard and inboard position for foot straps.
I had the opportunity to test one of their prototypes (125l) back in March which only had the foot strap mounting option closer to the rails. As a heavier rider I never managed to get my foot into the rear straps without the trim being completely off. I always ended with the foot sitting either on top just behind the strap. The new inboard position is spot on for my weight.
The slightly longer nose makes up-hauling a bit easier and in combination with the rail shape means on occasional touch downs the board more or less bounces off the water rather then burring it's nose. Anyone learning to foil jibe will appreciate this.
The back of the board is big enough, even for my weight, to comfortably get into the front strap and pump the board onto the plane. With a soft but fast release.
People have complained about it not having tracks. While this would be nice it also would ad more weight to the board. I have used the prototype with both a Starboard GT and Severnes own foil. Both worked fine. I bought a production model 125 Alien which I am using with a Slingshot foil. I have played around with the different mounting holes but it looks like position B works best (the same position you use on the Wizards).
I have used the board both in open ocean swells as well as flat water on the river. It works fine for both.
If I'd have to be picky I'd say a bigger deck pad across the back of the board between the two rear straps would have been nice. But it's not a deal breaker.
The video below of the prototype was shot in super light wind (approx 10 knts):
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
Anecdotes are great, and it's awesome that you guys are stoked on foiling. No doubt Slingshot have invested plenty in marketing and appear to in your case done a good job honouring warranties. Everyone's experience will vary, and from what it seems you guys have had a lot of fun on the slingshot foils and have had excellent support from your local retailer, which are the most important things.
But I'm more interested in hard facts, and you don't need to do an engineering analysis to see that slingshot has a few design deficits where other brands have now leapfrogged them. None of the products out there are perfect, so let's not pretend slingshot is. As you can see from my reviews, unlike some others I'll clearly highlight the downsides as well as the upsides. I'll so a full review of the Flow1000 once I've had a few more sessions.
Slingshot may have been a clear performance leader 18 months ago when the competition was the Naish WS1 and NP Pinkie, but that's no longer the case. Let's also not forget the first gen Fanatic foils which were about as stiff as a noodle. Pricing wise Slingshot, Fanatic, NP, Naish are all similar... Slingshot might actually be the more expensive. No idea about Starboard.
The difference is Fanatic, NP, Starboard and Naish have all realised that the gen1 masts weren't strong enough and have upgraded to a beefier mast whereas slingshot has not. Everyone has also realised that some kind of spigot or recess in the mast to fuselage connection is a good idea... Except slingshot. Will be interesting if they finally update their design when the 2021 gear comes out.
End of the day, any of the current or previous crop of gear will get you out there foiling and doing all the manouvers, and I had heaps of fun on the Naish WS1. $1500 for second hand board + foil was the perfect entry point for me. But with some foil experience under my belt, I'd probably select the slingshot last, I'm not interested in sailing in again with the foil balanced on my board, and the rear stab jammed in the footstraps cause it couldn't handle a jump. I'd rather rely on the product being well engineered from the beginning, rather than a warranty process. That said I'd always recommend people buy something that they have good local support for, and for many people that's slingshot, and good luck to them.
Interesting insights - how long have you been foiling?
Were you trying to jump the Infinity 99cm wing (2,371 sq cm) when you broke the foil?
You say Slingshot is no longer a performance leader.
Which other brands have comparable performance to the Slingshot Freestyle 87L / Infinity 65cm combo?
i.e. what would you ride to downwind carve 2m ocean swells in 30 knots?
In my experience, a recess in the mast to fuselage connection does not guarantee superior strength compared to the Slingshot connection with stainless bolts.
I snapped my Naish fuselage right at the front of the recess.
Name a foil that you can't downwind carve in 30kts and 2m swell? I'm unaware that there was some limitation that meant that only slingshot foils can perform in those conditions? If you look on social media there are people ripping on every brand of foil, plenty we can't even easily buy here.
And yeah the first gen Naish leaves something to be desired. The tail connection also left a fair bit of room for improvement, but they look to have corrected that with the new gear.
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..
Back to topic... it's great to see the production version of the Alien has an outboard and inboard position for foot straps.
I had the opportunity to test one of their prototypes (125l) back in March which only had the foot strap mounting option closer to the rails. As a heavier rider I never managed to get my foot into the rear straps without the trim being completely off. I always ended with the foot sitting either on top just behind the strap. The new inboard position is spot on for my weight.
The slightly longer nose makes up-hauling a bit easier and in combination with the rail shape means on occasional touch downs the board more or less bounces off the water rather then burring it's nose. Anyone learning to foil jibe will appreciate this.
The back of the board is big enough, even for my weight, to comfortably get into the front strap and pump the board onto the plane. With a soft but fast release.
People have complained about it not having tracks. While this would be nice it also would ad more weight to the board. I have used the prototype with both a Starboard GT and Severnes own foil. Both worked fine. I bought a production model 125 Alien which I am using with a Slingshot foil. I have played around with the different mounting holes but it looks like position B works best (the same position you use on the Wizards).
I have used the board both in open ocean swells as well as flat water on the river. It works fine for both.
If I'd have to be picky I'd say a bigger deck pad across the back of the board between the two rear straps would have been nice. But it's not a deal breaker.
The video below of the prototype was shot in super light wind (approx 10 knts):
Interesting to see you sail with your back foot out of the strap. Is this usually just as you are coming in/out of a gybe or all the time?
Select to expand quotestehsegler said..
Back to topic... it's great to see the production version of the Alien has an outboard and inboard position for foot straps.
I had the opportunity to test one of their prototypes (125l) back in March which only had the foot strap mounting option closer to the rails. As a heavier rider I never managed to get my foot into the rear straps without the trim being completely off. I always ended with the foot sitting either on top just behind the strap. The new inboard position is spot on for my weight.
The slightly longer nose makes up-hauling a bit easier and in combination with the rail shape means on occasional touch downs the board more or less bounces off the water rather then burring it's nose. Anyone learning to foil jibe will appreciate this.
The back of the board is big enough, even for my weight, to comfortably get into the front strap and pump the board onto the plane. With a soft but fast release.
People have complained about it not having tracks. While this would be nice it also would ad more weight to the board. I have used the prototype with both a Starboard GT and Severnes own foil. Both worked fine. I bought a production model 125 Alien which I am using with a Slingshot foil. I have played around with the different mounting holes but it looks like position B works best (the same position you use on the Wizards).
I have used the board both in open ocean swells as well as flat water on the river. It works fine for both.
If I'd have to be picky I'd say a bigger deck pad across the back of the board between the two rear straps would have been nice. But it's not a deal breaker.
The video below of the prototype was shot in super light wind (approx 10 knts):
Top vid Thomas
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
Interesting to see you sail with your back foot out of the strap. Is this usually just as you are coming in/out of a gybe or all the time?
The foot strap position on the prototype was too far out near the rail. Maybe because of my weight or maybe I'm too much of a kook but I couldn't get my foot in the rear strap without the foil loosing grip. I might have to try out the 84 slingshot wing.
The inward position on the production boards works for me. That said when I am sailing out in the ocean with swell I usually have the rear foot in the centre of the board.
Yesterday tested an Alien 120 with 5m foilride sail and red Severne foil. It felt very nice, was able to tack with my 77kg. There is also a HD version with more weight for schooling.
Had my first proper foiling session on the 115 Alien. Wind was gusty 10 - 20knots, and I was on a 4.2 Blade, Slingshot i76 foil (B fuse position). Underpowered and overpowered at times. Loved the board! I set the rear footstraps in the outboard position, and ended up not using them for almost the whole session. Felt good though, might go strapless on the back.
I'm only 75kg, and the foil seemed a bit overlifted, even though I had my mast base all the way forward and foot straps one from the front. I also had the rear stab shimmed by -0.4deg for less lift. Might need a sightly bigger shim.
Foiling gybes seemed easier on this board. Tacks are harder than on my Naish Titan 120L. A bit harder than the Hover 122 too, but still very doable. Pumping was harder too, but I probably just need to change my technique to suit the thick tail of this board.
