I think foiling conditions and equipment are relevant.
You could do 20-25 knot speeds all day on race foils/cam sails on flattish water with any length lines you want.
Similarly, if you're foiling in lighter winds on lakes with freeride gear any lines will work,
I'd be interested to see video of anyone foiling ocean swells in 25 knots of wind hooked into 24 inch lines 
This thread definitely proves that adjusting equipment to suit poor technique just leads to worse technique.
With a 2.8, might work fine.
I think Gwarn rides what is considered "ocean swell wind waves" all the time in the middle of San Francisco Bay.
Swells head high at higher tides should qualify.
But your thinking might be flawed.
We might use 24" lines, but we don't hook in while riding windswell.
We hook in to grind upwind.
Well, once again, Grantmac just has superior technique, plain and simple. We bow to thee, oh superior god.
I hope you guys are not hooked in when actually riding windswells. An occasional change of direction, maybe.
But hard turns downwind followed by sharp heel turns.....not hooked in.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
I hope you guys are not hooked in when actually riding windswells. An occasional change of direction, maybe.
But hard turns downwind followed by sharp heel turns.....not hooked in.
How about flying upwind at 20 knots over 2-2.5m windswells hooked-in?
I can't imagine anyone average height or over doing it easily with 24 inch lines, happy to be proven wrong with a vid.
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..LeeD said..
I hope you guys are not hooked in when actually riding windswells. An occasional change of direction, maybe.
But hard turns downwind followed by sharp heel turns.....not hooked in.
How about flying upwind at 20 knots over 2-2.5m windswells hooked-in?
I can't imagine anyone average height or over doing it easily with 24 inch lines, happy to be proven wrong with a vid.
Yeah all the racers are on long lines in that case. Can't imagine going short in those conditions.
My arms, wingspan is 69.5", my height 70.75, when I was 20.
No matter how long my harness lines, I need a relatively short distance between my belly button and my booms.
I grip my booms around a 24" spread. Yes, it changes, but that's an average.
24" lines, or 40", or 34", my arms are the same length, but my butt can stick WAAY out, or should I stand in a good windsurfing stance?
Do I know what a good windsurf stance is?
I do kinda suck at wind and wingfoiling.
I'd venture to quess, at age 72 last year, I could windsurf freeride, slalom, speed, bump, and waves as well as any other person on this forum, if you fa tor in all the listed disiplines.
Notice I did not mention freestyle, or quad fin wavesailing.
Guy who live in the SF Bay area can verify, if they've seen me sail.
Do I know what a good windsurfing stance is?
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..azymuth said..LeeD said..
I hope you guys are not hooked in when actually riding windswells. An occasional change of direction, maybe.
But hard turns downwind followed by sharp heel turns.....not hooked in.
How about flying upwind at 20 knots over 2-2.5m windswells hooked-in?
I can't imagine anyone average height or over doing it easily with 24 inch lines, happy to be proven wrong with a vid.
Yeah all the racers are on long lines in that case. Can't imagine going short in those conditions.
not going that fast!?
"All the racers are on long lines".
So does using long lines make you as good as the pro racers?
So Rafa Nadal whips his forehands. Does copying his style make you as good as him?
Should you act like Nick Kyrgios on a tennis court?
Are you guys fanboys?
Azy..all those vids you rave about are on 3' windswells, mostly the same size waves.
In 6' windswell, you cannot see a person 20' from you, except occasionally when both are high on a swell.
Thing is I CAN use short lines IF I wanted to give up both efficiency and maneuverability in return for feeling locked in (not a good thing on foil unless in VERY flat water).
But if you CAN'T use correct length lines then you need to take a look at your technique, because something is wrong.
This is an old picture. Lines are 30", I run my boom lower now too:
Bet my stance is almost identical...with 24" lines.
That IS flatwater. As flat as I've ever seen in 17 knot breezes.
Slightly underpowered.
Grantmac..what is your idea of "efficient"?
In 10-15 knot breeze, I can use a 4.0 up to 7.0 foiling, but choose on the smaller end.
I'm sure I can use my 7.7, 4 cam wide sleeve, but why bother when I can get up with a 4.5?
I'm ~200# in thick wetsuit, that's a 5.8m and I'm overpowered. Stance isn't great because my lines are too short and boom too high. I think this was almost 3 years ago when I'd just started wavesailing multifin boards.
Yeah, but still nice photo.
I'd be on 4.0 in those conditions, or 5.2 windsurfing. Or 6.0 foil with a 600 foil and 210 stab.
Seriously....
I was surfsailing a 7'7" x 23" twin fin wave board in 1984. Had 8'10" Local Motion tri fin and a 9'6" big wave board in garage, but wanted something for little waves.
I almost see the disconnect here.
Lots of you are newbies to wind and water sports.
I can say that because I started surfing in 1965, competed in 4A contests in California by 1969, was a major reference in the surfing book Surfing California, started windsurfing a 9' x 21.5" board in 1983, picked up National Ride with Gaastra, comp boards by Seatrend, development boards with Haut by '86, Mistral race sponsorship that year, and gave up racing by '89 in favor of speed sailing, same sponsors.
Like apples and oranges, we all ride the water, but our experiences differ greatly.
How many of you have surfsailed Sunset, Lanikai, Chuns, on the North Shore?
How many can claim 70+ winter days at Backyards or that number surfing winter Pipe?
Apples and oranges.
And yes, I am a relative newbie in windfoil and a flounderer in winging.
Can't help the former, and the later might be due to 12 days a year total at 72 years of age.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
"All the racers are on long lines".
So does using long lines make you as good as the pro racers?
Hahah I'll be the first to say No. They're on 9.0s in > 20kts...who would use short lines?Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
not going that fast!?
How fast do you think they're going?
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..Subsonic said..Sandman1221 said..Subsonic said..
Based purely on having tried 24" lines before, unless you are 5yrs old, yes they are indeed too short.
no matter what discipline of windsurfing you are doing.
Subsonic, here is the thing, with 23.5" lines I am balanced with the sail pressure, if I went shorter would be too close to sail and it could pull me leeward/forward and over into the water, longer lines and I would have to lean out more and that would increase my effective weight resulting in me pulling sail windward and over into the water. Now that is all with an upright 7ish posture.
That is just physics, and you cannot change that for me and my posture along with my kit and a given condition on the water.
Rethink the physics.
Even if you sail somewhere where planing/getting up on the foil is an anomaly and you just use harness lines to rest while floating along, you're still better off having that distance between you and the sail, if not more so. Having super short harness lines almost completely removes your ability to react to gusts when they happen.
im not saying you should have 32" lines, but 24" lines will have you waaay to close to the sail. Try running your adjustables at 28 for a while (give it longer than 5min) Believe it or not you will be able to balance everything up with longer lines.
Sorry, you can not change the physics!
Yeah, I think with that response, you've made it clear how futile further conversation on the matter would be.
enjoy the 24" harness lines.
LeeD, this posting alone over 45% of the comments are from you. How about posting a picture of yourself with the harness lines. We would like to learn from an experienced sailor what a correct setup looks like. With all your knowledge and experience; you should share photos with us newbies.
By all means please continue to use the harness lines you like, but don't spread bs about this person always using super short lines, or that person always having their boom super high with very short lines placed very far forward, always using a 5.2 no matter the conditions, etc. etc.
Jason Voss:
Andy Brandt (it's a 4.8 btw, and not even that windy...)
Select to expand quotebel29 said..
Andy Brandt (it's a 4.8 btw, and not even that windy...)
Exact same kit he handed me the day before the lesson (he didn't even know I was signed up for it!). He was making it work when I was on a 6.6.
Hi Bel29 - Don't know Jason Voss but I do know Andy Brandt reasonably well and work with him for a day or two every year. The picture you posted is of Andy on a fin, not a foilboard. He has a van full of gear and uses most of it, but the Foil gear he seems to use most is indeed a Duotone 5.2, set up for a lot of power, with boom quite high and lines very far forward and short.
I haven't asked whether his 5.2 Idol is stock or custom, but in terms. of all out grunt I've switched from my 7.0 Flyer to his sail and back, and while the Flyer is a lot more stable, his 5.2 pulls just as hard, and also goes completely flat in transitions. I'm a couple of inches shorter than he (and use a Liberty harness where he uses a waist harness) but to get into his lines before I'm planing I need to give a little jump, and then deal with the wedgie.
I sail all angles with 22" lines freeride craving powered and unpowered.
If its under 18 mph i dont even go out I'm blessed.
Flat water and rolling swell and lately some beach breaks in the baja.
Tresure island SF
Crissy Sf bay
3rd st Sf bay
The delta bay
And the last 4 months in the Baja
On a side note nobody has talked about placement of the line which can influence their actual length
I also use a waist harness with a sliding bar when it gets light I loosen it. That can add 4 to 5 inches.
Jason Voss is a pleasure to sail with at the delta he brings a competitive side out in you.
I think a few of you are saying some really weird things, claiming you read it here.
That bad pic of Jason...he's a great windsurfer, and last I saw of him 2 years ago, his lines did seem normal, not the short ones he used to advocate. But I don't focus on people's harness lines.
Please ask either of them about me. You will find some surprising answers.
Thanks Gwarn.
Hope I get to sail with you someday.
I place COE of my lines about 4" forward for windfoil.
