Select to expand quotePTWoody said...teatrea said..
check this out , very poor technique if you ask me. Connor better than Trev but still very bad. Trevor not getting good power , no positive blade entry sacrificing power for cadence.
The results seem to suggest that in 200 metre sprint racing, cadence is king. You can see from that head to head with Connor and Trevor that Trevor has him covered to about the half way point but then he bonks. It's an all or nothing gamble as you have nothing in reserve. Maybe he went out too hard too soon in that heat.
Michael Booth's technique appears to be really efficient and again the results show that it holds him in good stead for the distance races, but I suspect it would be even more taxing to try to increase cadence dramatically using that stroke. No doubt someone clever could run a computer simulation to work out the optimal approach but at the moment, the results seem to indicate that Connor and Trevor have the 200 metre thing worked out better than the others.
You couldn't be more wrong
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Select to expand quoteAndyR said...
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Oh well Im not scared to say it as I see it. Hate the word elite paddlers, they may be at the pointy end of their sport but blind Freddy can see their technique could be much better, then they can be even more elite and you can kiss their assess some more, lol.
I'm with you TT, I'm a total novice but Danny's technique looked a lot smoother and to me it looked like he got faster and faster after the halfway point of that sprint, looked silky smooth his style.
Select to expand quoteteatrea said...AndyR said...
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Oh well Im not scared to say it as I see it. Hate the word elite paddlers, they may be at the pointy end of their sport but blind Freddy can see their technique could be much better, then they can be even more elite and you can kiss their assess some more, lol.
Haha thats the angy bus driver coming out in you! !
Its ok Andy all the Elite guys love getting their arses kissed so you can go right ahead.
Select to expand quoteteatrea said..AndyR said...
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Oh well Im not scared to say it as I see it. Hate the word elite paddlers, they may be at the pointy end of their sport but blind Freddy can see their technique could be much better, then they can be even more elite and you can kiss their assess some more, lol.
Yeah it may well be the case that if you forced Connor to use Danny's stroke, he would be much faster. Of course, you may also find that you've just screwed up Tiger Woods' swing. The main thing I take from Peter Dorries coaching is that there is no perfect stroke that works for everybody and sometimes you have to allow for some individual expression and optimise within those parameters. For example, Michael Johnson had an absolutely atrocious running style that should never have been allowed beyond junior athletics. But he did alright for himself.
Select to expand quotePTWoody said...teatrea said..AndyR said...
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Oh well Im not scared to say it as I see it. Hate the word elite paddlers, they may be at the pointy end of their sport but blind Freddy can see their technique could be much better, then they can be even more elite and you can kiss their assess some more, lol.
Yeah it may well be the case that if you forced Connor to use Danny's stroke, he would be much faster. Of course, you may also find that you've just screwed up Tiger Woods' swing. The main thing I take from Peter Dorries coaching is that there is no perfect stroke that works for everybody and sometimes you have to allow for some individual expression and optimise within those parameters. For example, Michael Johnson had an absolutely atrocious running style that should never have been allowed beyond junior athletics. But he did alright for himself.
True technique varies but basics don't, wrong about MJ his technique was perfect for 200 400 running not so much for short sprint. His tech was extremely efficient for a Race length where lactic build up destroys you if you don't have good efficient technique.
IMO Connor is master of the jackrabbit small-blade technique, but that doesn't mean that that will ultimately prove the best in time. Someone will probably soon come along with eg. a technique like Jim Terrell's modified C1 technique from a couple of years back and blow everyone away. Or a completely new way of paddling that hasn't been invented yet.
Connors rating was pretty close to 100 strokes a minute which is insane , if he keeps a clean catch at that rate I reckon a better technique with a slower rating still won't beat him over that distance. IMHO
Not better. Different. Next year someone will go faster. Or the year after that. The C1 guys use a completely different stroke over a similar distance and go a lot faster in craft that aren't vastly different. If 100 strokes/min was always the fastest then they'd be using it.
99.9% of SUP races take longer than 20 minutes. They aren't sprints. So SUP sprint specialists haven't even been found yet. If there were 200m sprint races at every event, we'd pretty soon discover a load of sprinters who'd probably do it a lot differently than Connor, who is basically just speeding up the same technique he uses to paddle for 2 hours. They'd probably also be a different body shape, like with 100m sprint runners versus distance runners, or sprint cyclists vs. Tour de France etc.
It's still very early days for SUP. Maybe in 10-15 years' time the different disciplines may have distinguished themselves and we'll be looking back at videos of Connor's frantic blur and laughing. They'll be kids of 13 going faster than him by then.
Select to expand quotepaul.j said...teatrea said...AndyR said...
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Oh well Im not scared to say it as I see it. Hate the word elite paddlers, they may be at the pointy end of their sport but blind Freddy can see their technique could be much better, then they can be even more elite and you can kiss their assess some more, lol.
Haha thats the angy bus driver coming out in you! !
Its ok Andy all the Elite guys love getting their arses kissed so you can go right ahead.
Haha I got a beard atm they might not like it
Select to expand quoteAndyR said...paul.j said...teatrea said...AndyR said...
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Oh well Im not scared to say it as I see it. Hate the word elite paddlers, they may be at the pointy end of their sport but blind Freddy can see their technique could be much better, then they can be even more elite and you can kiss their assess some more, lol.
Haha thats the angy bus driver coming out in you! !
Its ok Andy all the Elite guys love getting their arses kissed so you can go right ahead.
Haha I got a beard atm they might not like it
LOL ME TOO, DONT KNOW ABOUT THE ELITE GUYS, BUT THE GIRLS NOW THATS A DIFFERENT STOREY
Select to expand quote teatrea said..AndyR said...paul.j said...teatrea said...AndyR said...
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Oh well Im not scared to say it as I see it. Hate the word elite paddlers, they may be at the pointy end of their sport but blind Freddy can see their technique could be much better, then they can be even more elite and you can kiss their assess some more, lol.
Haha thats the angy bus driver coming out in you! !
Its ok Andy all the Elite guys love getting their arses kissed so you can go right ahead.
Haha I got a beard atm they might not like it
LOL ME TOO, DONT KNOW ABOUT THE ELITE GUYS, BUT THE GIRLS NOW THATS A DIFFERENT STOREY
I think Jakey has you covered TeaTrea with the girls though 
Select to expand quoteAndyR said.. teatrea said..AndyR said...paul.j said...teatrea said...AndyR said...
I sure an't telling an elite paddler his tech is poor when they are at the pointy end of the sport. What ever way they are doing it, it clearly works
Oh well Im not scared to say it as I see it. Hate the word elite paddlers, they may be at the pointy end of their sport but blind Freddy can see their technique could be much better, then they can be even more elite and you can kiss their assess some more, lol.
Haha thats the angy bus driver coming out in you! !
Its ok Andy all the Elite guys love getting their arses kissed so you can go right ahead.
Haha I got a beard atm they might not like it
LOL ME TOO, DONT KNOW ABOUT THE ELITE GUYS, BUT THE GIRLS NOW THATS A DIFFERENT STOREY
I think Jakey has you covered TeaTrea with the girls though
yeah for sure but the fool has got himself a steady only jokes shes a lovely lass and by all accounts very good for the young fella.As long as he doesent sprint like trev and connor hell do just fine ,LoL. Anyway I'm not having a crack at them , both obviously great athletes at what they do. As someone who has had a lot of experience in sprinting , not so much paddling I believe they could be even better. Biggest mistake most people do in trying to go faster , is try to hard Watching Trev expecially at one point you see him lengthen his stroke and you see his board speed pick up and actually gets a nose infront , then he hits the wall. In an all out power effort you run out of juice in approx 4 to 10 seconds ATP then you are running on the anaerobic system for the remainder. I would if I was young and fit hold back on full power at start and gradually build into it. If it was a 100m paddle or 50 I would go full throttle from beginning.
I reckon that young Trev's technique was very similar to the C1 paddlers. Also kinda strange to compare paddling techniques from two different sports, they aren't even standing up haha.
I'd like to see you finish the sprints in 53 seconds and then comment on technique, since you aren't nearly as fast as them, can't really comment, can ya?
Well, if the only people who could comment on technique have to be faster than Connor then there's not going to be much discussion on this forum. And all of the worlds' paddle coaches will have to find another job.
Personally, I'd rather learn by watching Annabel than Connor. I'm not sure that what works for Connor is going to work for many other people. He's actually quite an atypical build for an elite paddler, and you adapt your style to suit your build.
My point is that obviously whatever Connor and Trev are doing works for them, since they are way faster than you guys. So you aren't really in a good position to judge who's technique is good.
If you'd prefer to learn how to paddle like a girl, than be my guest.
Select to expand quoteTinaFayy said...
I reckon that young Trev's technique was very similar to the C1 paddlers. Also kinda strange to compare paddling techniques from two different sports, they aren't even standing up haha.
I'd like to see you finish the sprints in 53 seconds and then comment on technique, since you aren't nearly as fast as them, can't really comment, can ya?
Ah yes I can really comment, because that is what a forum is for, you say they have good form I say they don't, big deal. No I probably can't do 200m in 53 seconds, I doubt Trevor or Connor will be able too at 45 either.I actually beat Trevor in a sprint once and came second too Jake, albeit on an inflatable. LoL. Point is everyone can improve even the elite, you think Usain Bolt doesn't spend a lot of time analyzing every minute detail in his technique, because he knows and his coach knows in a sprint that's where the biggest improvement will come. Not by getting fitter or stronger as you can only be so fit and so strong, it's efficiency that counts all else being equal. As for your stupid comment about them not even standing up in C1 , well enough said, a stupid comment from someone who clearly has no idea.
Select to expand quoteTinaFayy said..
My point is that obviously whatever Connor and Trev are doing works for them, since they are way faster than you guys. So you aren't really in a good position to judge who's technique is good.
If you'd prefer to learn how to paddle like a girl, than be my guest.
only time will tell if their technique will serve them well long term. Could it even cause injuries etc down the track???
Last time Jamie Mitchell was in Melbourne (probably 5 years ago) I remember a few of us sitting around shooting the breeze and soaking up some of his wisdom and insight, and one of the guys got on to the topic of Connor's technique, suggesting it was poor. JM simply said Connor is pretty much the fastest paddler in the world so we weren't really in a position to tell him he was doing anything wrong. Smart bloke is Jamie Mitchell.
But Annabel is the fastest woman, and the margin of her wins is more often greater than Connor's. And yet her technique is quite different (although there are also similarities of course). So as far as I can see, all this says is that beyond some basics that all people need to do, you can adapt your style to your particular physique. Would Annabel be faster if she did what Connor does? Doubtful. Would Connor be faster if he paddled like Annabel? Who knows? Maybe he would.
I am using a female paddler as a contrast deliberately to get the point across. But the same argument holds for people of the same sex too. If you watch a bunch of international middle distance runners, they can be of widely varying heights etc and have very different running styles. Yet they all manage to find different ways to get the job done. I suspect that SUP racing is very similar.
I think it should be possible to discuss Connor's technique, and ask if it would be right for us, without implying criticism of him.
Let's not forget that Connor, I think, has already had serious problems with his back that have required surgery. We all carry our own issues we are dealing with and that we have to adapt to.
Interesting that you mention Annabel and contrast her technique with Connor as she has openly acknowledged borrowing aspects of Connor's technique. In particular the choke stroke. Only difference is Annabel uses a backhand grip with the top hand whereas Connor uses a split finger grip. Also on that note, Connor recently discussed the way that he is constantly observing and integrating techniques of Travis, Danny and others to see what works for him and to constantly improve. And that's the key point that I think we agree on - that there is no perfect paddle technique that works for everybody just as there is no perfect bowling action or goal kicking routine or running motion. Everyone is different and the best technique for me is not going to be the best technique for you. The only thing we can do is find what works best for ourselves.
Suppers could learn a lot from these guys , I believe Danny Ching was once a contender for the Olympics in this discipline. Check out the size of the blades though 
Like some one said these guys really don't do much sprint racing at all , so make sense their technique for this style of racing is not quite their. Seems some are taking my words as a personal attack on the guys mentioned , not the case at all. This vid is from the 2012 games. Watch and learn
Select to expand quoteteatrea said...
Suppers could learn a lot from these guys ,
Watch and learn
Next time I want to paddle while on one knee I'll watch that vid..
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..teatrea said...
Suppers could learn a lot from these guys ,
Watch and learn
Next time I want to paddle while on one knee I'll watch that vid..
try it! choke up the paddle and go. Its an eye opener the speed you can create
Select to expand quotehusq2100 said...DavidJohn said..teatrea said...
Suppers could learn a lot from these guys ,
Watch and learn
Next time I want to paddle while on one knee I'll watch that vid..
try it! choke up the paddle and go. Its an eye opener the speed you can create
No doubt.. 
Select to expand quotehusq2100 said..DavidJohn said..teatrea said...
Suppers could learn a lot from these guys ,
Watch and learn
Next time I want to paddle while on one knee I'll watch that vid..
try it! choke up the paddle and go. Its an eye opener the speed you can create
you mean the speed , you think you are creating you guys are hilarious , its funny probably two of the most respected guys in sup Jim Terrrell and Larry Cain come from C1 , plus probably the best paddler out their Danny ching. If you cant see the parallels with sup , you need glasses So Connor had back problems , gee that's a surprise
Select to expand quoteteatrea said..
Like some one said these guys really don't do much sprint racing at all , so make sense their technique for this style of racing is not quite their.
The fact that the 3 or 4 athletes that are the fastest over 200 metres are the exact ones who are fastest over 50 km is perhaps a sign that the sport is still very immature and the best techniques and body shapes have not yet emerged for each discipline. At the same time, I understand what DJ is saying - the kneel down C1 method is only relevant to an extent.
I have been paddling my own 21" wide boards for well over a year and a half now and it does require a different technique and paddle to what you normally use so im sure we will see a different technique and equipment and paddlers being used next year for this kind of race if the big brands have only just started to build some narrow boards.
