Select to expand quoteTheGoodDr said..Boardbumps I would question this. Why does a pointed nose make sense on the longer lengths? Whats the reasoning there. I just think that there are times when weare caught up by traditional dogma to the exclusion of everything on the basis of what seems to be a correct presupposition. I think one of the elements that I am realising more
and more with these tomo inspired designs is the functionality element. If its not required or doesnt give any added benefit then why have it there. Intuitively the parallel rails thinking
seems to work because we can cut down the size of a board by a significant margin, retain volume and surface area as well make the board narrower. Its during the setup phase of catching
a wave where things become interesting. When you see a wave approaching and you start to paddle to get on at some point you will feel the board getting lifted. This happens due to the physical
principles of peaks and troughs of wave dynamics. When we wait for a wave we are effectively speaking waiting in a trough. As the wave comes along our intention is to get on the peak. Now once
you get on the peak this is where feeling will guide you as to the performance of the board. Boards react very differently during this phase. Some boards require intense paddling to reach the point of
forward momentum without any additional intervention on the part of the paddler. However some will start to plane a lot easier. The capacity to plane in this way comes down to a variety of factors not
least of which revolve around the shape of the board. A good way to test a boards planing ability is to sit in the pocket and without paddling see if the board will start to get on. Its this very element
that intrigues me about this design and it goes back to making the board as functional as possilbe.
Cheers Ozzie
Hi Ozzie,
the planing ability of the minion seems better than other traditional shaped boards that I have.
When paddling out or on flat water it feels quite slow, but it has no problem catching waves, even fat full ones.
I recently swapped in the water to try a traditional performance board in another brand. What became obvious to me was the lack of the loose, free, slippery feeling of my minion.
Also I was very surprised at the drop in stability during the take-off. The trad board tended to pearl away from whatever rail was lower in the water. The square nose of the minion doesn't do this, in fact the nose tends to right itself, even in critical situations when the board is well off its planing position.
The minion feels very comfortable in head high and larger. I find that I can lean into bottom turns with confidence, have always found that other sups feel like the rail won't handle a full committed turn.
Hi GoodDr,
I think you make a very good point in relation to the pearling effect which is quite possibly the worst nightmare that one can experience when going down the line. Riding the JP 8'2x28 Pro it is an oft experienced part of wave catching where I find by sheer virtue of the fact that I switchhit sides that the forehand will dig in more making the take off quite problematic. Critically this requires an immediate adjustment which is all too often a bit late. My personal experience is such that narrow nosed boards are more prone to this than the more broader ones. Good point.
Thought this thread needed some pics (all courtesy of PotShots who was kind enough to point his lens towards the old boys while taking pics of shortboarders killing it on the next break)
This is TheGoodDr styling
This is Doc toes over
And me just getting one to myself
Select to expand quoteDanOinkey said..
Thought this thread needed some pics (all courtesy of PotShots who was kind enough to point his lens towards the old boys while taking pics of shortboarders killing it on the next break)
This is TheGoodDr styling
This is Doc toes over
And me just getting one to myself
Nice mate. I like your form. Excellent paddle position, good body slant leaning into the wave, nice job on the rail. Lookin good brother. These boards look like so much fun.
Tried the cdrive fins in the minion today. Extra choppy (southerly chop on top of groundswell, backwash off rocks and channel from the west and an easterly wind) and hard to stay upright, but once I got to actually turn the thing.......mmmm. Extremely loose but hangs on. Cant wait for some clean water to try it in....
Select to expand quoteTang said..
Tried the cdrive fins in the minion today. Extra choppy (southerly chop on top of groundswell, backwash off rocks and channel from the west and an easterly wind) and hard to stay upright, but once I got to actually turn the thing.......mmmm. Extremely loose but hangs on. Cant wait for some clean water to try it in....
So it loosened it up even more eh and you have the large C-Drives? Niccce.....what did u do about deck grip?
Select to expand quoteTang said..
Tried the cdrive fins in the minion today. Extra choppy (southerly chop on top of groundswell, backwash off rocks and channel from the west and an easterly wind) and hard to stay upright, but once I got to actually turn the thing.......mmmm. Extremely loose but hangs on. Cant wait for some clean water to try it in....
Sounds exciting - so large C-Drives as quads?
Got it out this morning in 2-4ft clean waves. Got a cracker thru the bowl and the board sang. It seems quite a bit looser without the darc drive, it still has the hold, , directional speed and acceleration, but my only issue is that I have to get used to having that degree of looseness and control in combination. The board wants to go and I'm not ready for it. I'm finding I can do much tighter bottom turns than with the more traditional fins, but I'm still feeling my way.
i have the XL size fins, pretty sure the quads are XL and my thruster fins are for sure. Looking fw to trying it with the cdrives and the darc, too - i rode the cdrives as a quad with a knubster in my airborn a few months ago and it stiffened it up way too much, so will be interesting to try it on the minion.
Deck grip. Thinking about putting it on because I spend a bit of time on my knees getting out of the impact zone sometimes, and under my left foot I can ffeel the beginnings on a depression from my left knee. I might do a bit of chopping this weekend with the pad Simon gave me.
im also finding that I have to revisit the way I surf on this board, too. The wide tail is making me blow a few cutties or hooks because my back foot is centred and often a bit forward, and isnt slightly off centre towards the turning rail. End result being I can't keep the rail in the water enough to overcome the speed and tightness of the arc. But my goodness, how sweet it is when you link a couple of turns together properly.
Try and keep off your knees these boards are a different balance point . You will get used to it , they actually punch through better than a pointy nosed board. Back yourself and it will paddle through.Re the wide tail shift your feet and jam it.
Tang, yes, I found that C-Drive quads need a knubster only in very wide tails with a forward fin placement, not sure the Minion will need it.
On the rear foot placement, putting your rear foot as close to the leash plug as possible can minimize the need to shift the foot sideways in turns.
As for knee paddling, I just avoid it: either prone paddle (so you can paddle immediately without having to get up on your knees) or stand up. Knee paddling can be dangerous too when trying to punch through whitewater (nose in the face, being tumbled with the board, having your toenails ripped out, ...)
Select to expand quotePiros said..
Try and keep off your knees these boards are a different balance point . You will get used to it , they actually punch through better than a pointy nosed board. Back yourself and it will paddle through.Re the wide tail shift your feet and jam it.Select to expand quotecolas said..
Tang, yes, I found that C-Drive quads need a knubster only in very wide tails with a forward fin placement, not sure the Minion will need it.
On the rear foot placement, putting your rear foot as close to the leash plug as possible can minimize the need to shift the foot sideways in turns.
As for knee paddling, I just avoid it: either prone paddle (so you can paddle immediately without having to get up on your knees) or stand up. Knee paddling can be dangerous too when trying to punch through whitewater (nose in the face, being tumbled with the board, having your toenails ripped out, ...)
Thanks for the tips, gents. I'm only really on knees to get out of the impact zone fast, and do a lot of prone paddling for that too. I use wax, so don't want to slip the paddle under my chest and have to slip it over my shoulder. By the time you do that, you lose that 2-3 seconds and that's often the difference between the channel and the next one on the head. Could be a good case for getting the grip on......
they might punch through chest high trade swell 8-9 second Gold Coast waves, Piros, but, they sure as hell won't get through the head high plus 14 second groundswell weve had down here lately. Its not Queensland 4ft, you know. 
I rarely try try and punch thru whitewater on my knees, either colas, I agree it's a recipe for disaster. Makes me realise how much I miss the humble duck dive....
" Makes me realise how much I miss the humble duck dive "
I think about to clamp the shaft in a hook, shaft erected front of board nose and paddle fin in position under my chest to allow me to grab both rail and duck my 82 liters floating my 76 kg.
The hook made of polyethylene foam stuck forward on the deck. Need to have a try...
About taking off with that kind of small board is to paddle in surfing stance with the width centered front foot and the back foot ready to slide in the tail block as quick as possible once you start to free fall in the wave. Once i get on waves this way, back foot in tail block and front foot centered , i succeed all of them.
Select to expand quoteKami said..
" Makes me realise how much I miss the humble duck dive "
I think about to clamp the shaft in a hook, shaft erected front of board nose and paddle fin in position under my chest to allow me to grab both rail and duck my 82 liters floating my 76 kg.
The hook made of polyethylene foam stuck forward on the deck. Need to have a try...
About taking off with that kind of small board is to paddle in surfing stance with the width centered front foot and the back foot ready to slide in the tail block as quick as possible once you start to free fall in the wave. Once i get on waves this way, back foot in tail block and front foot centered , i succeed all of them.
Not a bad idea kami. What about a hook or ringclip on the handle of the paddle that attachs to a ring on the back of your wetty or shorts? If anyone patents it, I only ask for a mere dollar for every one sold.
Select to expand quoteTang said..
Kami said..
" Makes me realise how much I miss the humble duck dive "
I think about to clamp the shaft in a hook, shaft erected front of board nose and paddle fin in position under my chest to allow me to grab both rail and duck my 82 liters floating my 76 kg.
The hook made of polyethylene foam stuck forward on the deck. Need to have a try...
About taking off with that kind of small board is to paddle in surfing stance with the width centered front foot and the back foot ready to slide in the tail block as quick as possible once you start to free fall in the wave. Once i get on waves this way, back foot in tail block and front foot centered , i succeed all of them.
Not a bad idea kami. What about a hook or ringclip on the handle of the paddle that attachs to a ring on the back of your wetty or shorts? If anyone patents it, I only ask for a mere dollar for every one sold.
Hi Tang, Gong did something like that yet... Colas might talk about it
Interesting subject. A practical way for us to regain the use of both our hands for holding the board during wipeouts / punching through phases could be as significant for SUP as the invention of the leash for prone surfers...
I deserves its own topic, I created one on: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Look-Ma-no-hands/
Tang, yes, as I ride mainly weak waves, I often just prone paddle with the paddle on my side to start paddling as fast as possible...
Keep the topic going guys, interesting reading.
On punching through whitewater, I concede that the more you do it, the better you get, so it's good to have a go. Also, of course, people's abilities on all aspects of the sport differ too. I've tried the Kai Lenny 'remain standing and duck through a wave breaking over me' trick a couple of times - guess what, I don't make it! lol
However, I agree with Tang too that a solid wall of whitewater coming at me in a decent Southern Ocean groundswell means discretion is the better part of valour - it's time to inspect the bottom! Unless its small and/or gutless, when I am punching through I make sure that I am on a very small angle off dead-centre to the whitewater. That way, if my technique is lacking and mother nature decides to smash the board back towards me (and it happens fast), then I don't cop the board in the face.
In fact, my current board (last year's JP 8'6" Pro) has a slight depression near the nose which happened on my very first surf on it. I figured I could get over chest high whitewater out at Big Left in a good 16 sec period swell. The dint was from my forearm, which I fortunately was quick enough to (instinctively) get up in front of my face as the board was just smashed back at me - super hard and super quickly. Bruised arm was much better than a broken nose.
Select to expand quotepumpnjump said...
2nd photo, what a great shot! How wide did you go on this one?
It's 26 7/8" wide.
Select to expand quoteCasso said..pumpnjump said...
2nd photo, what a great shot! How wide did you go on this one?
It's 26 7/8" wide.
You think my 184 cm in height and 73kg can handle that baby? I think so
Select to expand quoteghost4man said...Casso said..pumpnjump said...
2nd photo, what a great shot! How wide did you go on this one?
It's 26 7/8" wide.
You think my 184 cm in height and 73kg can handle that baby? I think so
Easy. I'm currently 87kg with my "winter thermal layer".
Select to expand quoteCasso said..ghost4man said... Casso said.. pumpnjump said...
2nd photo, what a great shot! How wide did you go on this one?
It's 26 7/8" wide.
You think my 184 cm in height and 73kg can handle that baby? I think so
Easy. I'm currently 87kg with my "winter thermal layer".
Casso,
I am just gobsmacked at how much interest the Minion/Vanguard/Gong sups are generating and seeing how guys who are quite heavy if I were to use myself as a reference point, ride boards which are little over 7 foot. I can see a real change in sup design over the next 2 years. It would not surprise me one iota to see the majority of guys out on boards with this design. Keep me posted on when you are going to do another demo day please.
Ozzie
Select to expand quoteghost4man said...
Keep me posted on when you are going to do another demo day please.
Will do Ozzie.
What a sick shot Casso , serious rail drive just love it..... and who said these boards don't rail turn.
Select to expand quotePiros said..
What a sick shot Casso , serious rail drive just love it..... and who said these boards don't rail turn.
Is it a belly shape or still concave cross the black stripe area
Can't find what you said about the plan shape .
Kami this one is more parallel rail with with V not like mine and obviously it works , nice job Simon and ripping shot Casso.
Nice casso, very nice. Must be good to see yourself surfing/supping like that, too, andgreat to see how you actually do things as opposed to how you feel through turns etc.
yes, these boards have a stack of speed, they just take off on you, but I love how they accelerate thru turns best.
re paddling thru whitewater, I reckon you have to either read it as possible and be lucky with the way the thing breaks and the whitewater behaves, or read it as unmakeable and go for the bottom. I've been lucky getting over serious whitewater up to head high and then been smashed by knee to waist high thanks to bad positioning etc. I must say I prefer the former.
maldives in 3 sleeps!!
Select to expand quoteTang said..
Nice casso, very nice. Must be good to see yourself surfing/supping like that, too, andgreat to see how you actually do things as opposed to how you feel through turns etc.
yes, these boards have a stack of speed, they just take off on you, but I love how they accelerate thru turns best.
re paddling thru whitewater, I reckon you have to either read it as possible and be lucky with the way the thing breaks and the whitewater behaves, or read it as unmakeable and go for the bottom. I've been lucky getting over serious whitewater up to head high and then been smashed by knee to waist high thanks to bad positioning etc. I must say I prefer the former.
maldives in 3 sleeps!!
Sounds like your getting used to your new board Tang! Still haven't got mine but hopefully this week. Make sure u have that gopro strapped to your neck. Wanna see the nose of your minion poking out the end of some Maldive barrels!! Have fun
Casso what are the dimensions for the board in the latest series of photos?
Obviously these boards really hold the rail well and like to be thrown around. I guess a reduction in weight compared
to conventional sized sups does help a lot. There is no doubt that they are getting smaller and lighter with each
development.
