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DEEP Oceanboards 7'2" Minion // Review

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Created by Casso > 9 months ago, 4 Jun 2014
gregc
VIC, 1299 posts
20 Dec 2014 1:38PM
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Its a principle not a law, although it relies upon the laws of physics and is key to the theory of fluid mechanics. The actual principle says: Archimedes' principle indicates that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces.

So Im not sure how this relates directly to the actual volume distribution. This more relates to the actual volume measurement i.e. 104 litres will support around 104kg all things being equal. The mysteries of shaping come into play a lot here with the actual bottom shape, the rail shape and the volume distribution. Once again I tip my hat to these masters of the black art, how on earth someone can make something that is stable to stand on in a moving body of water (your average beachy) is simply beyond my understanding.

supthecreek
2749 posts
20 Dec 2014 12:46PM
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GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.

It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks

Kami
1566 posts
20 Dec 2014 9:51PM
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Th

Select to expand quote
gregc said..
Its a principle not a law, although it relies upon the laws of physics and is key to the theory of fluid mechanics. The actual principle says: Archimedes' principle indicates that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces.

So Im not sure how this relates directly to the actual volume distribution. This more relates to the actual volume measurement i.e. 104 litres will support around 104kg all things being equal. The mysteries of shaping come into play a lot here with the actual bottom shape, the rail shape and the volume distribution. Once again I tip my hat to these masters of the black art, how on earth someone can make something that is stable to stand on in a moving body of water (your average beachy) is simply beyond my understanding.

As you said gregc, there is no magic tricks to shape shortSUP stable as much as it can be with a reduced minimum buoyancy to an equal Archimedes relation between weight and volume.
This is a just a matter to balance the more volume in board extremities as MINION's shaper do on his wonderful board. So rectangle shape is perfect to this purpoise, the magic is just to organise geometric rules to make something rideable.

lotus blossom
SA, 106 posts
21 Dec 2014 9:33AM
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TheGoodDr said..

Stev0 said..


supthecreek said..
Anyone who knows these boards well, care to suggest a size for me?

66 yo, 100 kg + wetsuit, Surfing nasty cold New England winters with lots of wind, bounce and size.
I can handle myself in surf, but I am not looking to cat balance for long sessions, I have more struggles than you 40 year olds

I am very comfortable on 8'10 x 31 @145L... in a fuller shape like an Allwave... pointier shapes, I need longer or wider

I'd like to go narrower for surfability and think this shape may help me... but unsure what numbers I should be looking at.
I don't need short as much as narrower.

Does 8'8 x 29 @ 135 make sense?.... thoughts?




A Minion for you would be approx 7'8 x 29 @135L rather than 8'8. The thing about the Minion is that you need to forget about 'I need longer or wider' conventional thinking of length v width. Volume distribution is still important but you can ride at least 1' shorter and 1" narrower than your normal board and still have reasonable stability and volume.



Supthecreek, I would recommend a 7'10" x 29 x 4 3/8" @ 119 litres.
I ride 7'8" x 28 1/4" x 4 1/4" @ 115 litres and I am 92 kg, and just a bit younger than yourself. I have ridden the 7'10" and found it significantly more stable than my board with not much loss in maneouvreability. You would be very surprised at how stable they are.

I differ a bit from StevO regarding volume........I believe that with these smaller, narrower boards you gain stability from having your feet level with the waterline, effectively most of the board submerged. At 135 litres I feel this effect would be lost and the board would be corkier and tippier because of the extra float. IMO





supthecreek, that is my little toy that the TheGoodDr has posted there and it is much more stable than the 7'8" with very minor if any difference in performance for me. Deep have one size up in the 8'0" x 29.5" on their website () which could also look the goods for you.

Height and distribution of weight makes a huge difference in these boards. If you are relatively short you can do smaller. All the 6'2 and 90kg+ suppers on minions here are on the 7'8" or 7'10". IMHO same weight at 5'8" tall could all be at least one size down.


ghost4man
408 posts
21 Dec 2014 8:53AM
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gregc said..
Its a principle not a law, although it relies upon the laws of physics and is key to the theory of fluid mechanics. The actual principle says: Archimedes' principle indicates that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces.

So Im not sure how this relates directly to the actual volume distribution. This more relates to the actual volume measurement i.e. 104 litres will support around 104kg all things being equal. The mysteries of shaping come into play a lot here with the actual bottom shape, the rail shape and the volume distribution. Once again I tip my hat to these masters of the black art, how on earth someone can make something that is stable to stand on in a moving body of water (your average beachy) is simply beyond my understanding.


Gregc,

Really?? Dude without getting into the dynamics of what is involved let me just say this to you but Archimedes Principle IS a LAW. The principle was PROVEN and became LAW. It not only RELIES upon laws of physics but IS in fact a law OF physics. You have misunderstood the actual statement which is surprising because you actually refer to it. The point that I was making remains the same. You cant supersede the law. It does not matter how you distribute the volume but a 110kg guy will not float a 105L board. The reason why the Minion and its other variants work is because you have an initial volume to work with at a much reduced length to traditional shapes so you are compelled to make adjustments in thickness and overall width etc.

I agree with you in that much kudos to the guys who shape these boards.

Cheers Ozzie

Stev0
422 posts
21 Dec 2014 9:42AM
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Select to expand quote

Height and distribution of weight makes a huge difference in these boards. If you are relatively short you can do smaller. All the 6'2 and 90kg+ suppers on minions here are on the 7'8" or 7'10". IMHO same weight at 5'8" tall could all be at least one size down.



I have found, at 85kg, from experiencing the Minion 7'4 x 27.75" @104L that the volume is still relative to a Fanatic Prowave 8'5 x 28.75" @109L. Regardless of if Archimedes Principle is a Law or Principle the key thing I have found, that is probably useful for others thinking of going-the-way-of-the-Minion, is that you can go similar volume to what you already know you can ride and even drop 5L volume with no issues with stability. It was a big gamble for me (or you) to lash out all that cash on a board I have never step foot on hoping like **** it was the right size, so it was awesome to know that the 7'4 Minion 'feels' about the same volume as the Prowave 8'5 so I was stoked I didn't get a Minion that was too small or too big even i.e. this info might help others get the right size. I would like to try a big Minion to see what that would be like for the choppy sessions.

TheGoodDr
SA, 216 posts
21 Dec 2014 5:38PM
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supthecreek said..
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.

It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks


Mags.....aka Mark Temple.

Tony Dalton different guy who rides "old technology" Starboard

russh
SA, 3027 posts
22 Dec 2014 2:19PM
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Select to expand quote
TheGoodDr said..

supthecreek said..
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.

It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks

Mags.....aka Mark Temple.
Tony Dalton different guy who rides "old technology" Starboard



Old technology - FFS - at least the decks don't sink around the handle and need additional cost and very old vacuum bagging tecnology that adds a kilo to stop it

oh oh - I'll be in trouble with the "minion set" now!!!

Kami
1566 posts
22 Dec 2014 4:03PM
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Today i learn what FFS means thx you
IMO, Minion built is a surfboard way to do it, this traditional craft of hand laminating done is livable to stand on , doesn't feel artificial as boomer board

TheGoodDr
SA, 216 posts
22 Dec 2014 7:30PM
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Select to expand quote
russh said..

TheGoodDr said..


supthecreek said..
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.

It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks


Mags.....aka Mark Temple.
Tony Dalton different guy who rides "old technology" Starboard




Old technology - FFS - at least the decks don't sink around the handle and need additional cost and very old vacuum bagging tecnology that adds a kilo to stop it

oh oh - I'll be in trouble with the "minion set" now!!!


Caught a crusty old sea dog
Yep minions have got a Fast Fin System
Still love ya Russh

russh
SA, 3027 posts
22 Dec 2014 8:02PM
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Select to expand quote
TheGoodDr said..


russh said..



TheGoodDr said..




supthecreek said..
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.

It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks




Mags.....aka Mark Temple.
Tony Dalton different guy who rides "old technology" Starboard






Old technology - FFS - at least the decks don't sink around the handle and need additional cost and very old vacuum bagging tecnology that adds a kilo to stop it

oh oh - I'll be in trouble with the "minion set" now!!!




Caught a crusty old sea dog
Yep minions have got a Fast Fin System
Still love ya Russh



just takin the pi$$ doc

If ya want old techno try my PSH ripper - bamboo that just keeps splitting, cracking and too easy to put your knee or other body parts through - it currently looks like bamboo jigsaw puzzle these


JasonR
NSW, 100 posts
22 Dec 2014 8:56PM
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Hey guys,
Ive been following this thread for a while now and im looking at getting a minion.
Im just confused as to what size to get ive contacted the guys at deep but id imagine they are on holidays.
Im about 173cm tall and weigh about 92kegs on a bad day im currently riding a mana 8'5 Gt. Regards
Jason

TheGoodDr
SA, 216 posts
22 Dec 2014 8:50PM
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Select to expand quote
JasonR said..
Hey guys,
Ive been following this thread for a while now and im looking at getting a minion.
Im just confused as to what size to get ive contacted the guys at deep but id imagine they are on holidays.
Im about 173cm tall and weigh about 92kegs on a bad day im currently riding a mana 8'5 Gt. Regards
Jason


Hey Jason
check this link
all the minion riders give size, height, weight etc.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/calling-all-minion-riders/?SearchTerms=Minion

JasonR
NSW, 100 posts
22 Dec 2014 9:46PM
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Thanks mate

djansen
QLD, 77 posts
30 Dec 2014 6:18AM
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Hey JasonR the deep website gives you a good idea but here are the measurements they recommend



I have a 7.10 and weigh in at under 90 kG before a xmas feast and certainly don't have the balance skills of a cat. I absolutely love mine and the more I surf it the better it gets.

paperboy
NSW, 102 posts
30 Dec 2014 5:31PM
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Like a lot of others through injury and missing surfing got a sup to get some waves ,barge of a thing soon frustrated not being able to surf how I used to ,got another sup 9 foot more suited to surfing ,better, could bury a rail but still ended up frustrated way too much surfboard , now on the hunt for next board have been reading all the threads on these vanguard style boards and watching all the footage I can . But they dont look to do what a sub 8 foot x sub 30 traditional board can do on a wave ( I mean no offence people are ripping on them and I get stoked watching them )
So I guess my question is to someone in a similar situation does it tick all your sufing boxes or does it still leave you wanting a bit more ( I rode a 6 4 for 30 odd years before breaking down)
Cheers pat

Tang
VIC, 580 posts
31 Dec 2014 11:14AM
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Select to expand quote
paperboy said..
Like a lot of others through injury and missing surfing got a sup to get some waves ,barge of a thing soon frustrated not being able to surf how I used to ,got another sup 9 foot more suited to surfing ,better, could bury a rail but still ended up frustrated way too much surfboard , now on the hunt for next board have been reading all the threads on these vanguard style boards and watching all the footage I can . But they dont look to do what a sub 8 foot x sub 30 traditional board can do on a wave ( I mean no offence people are ripping on them and I get stoked watching them )
So I guess my question is to someone in a similar situation does it tick all your sufing boxes or does it still leave you wanting a bit more ( I rode a 6 4 for 30 odd years before breaking down)
Cheers pat



Depends how you surfed, pat. My minion isnt quite right for me, has a bit too much foam in it plus I'm not a quad surfer having learnt on singles and then spent 20 years on thrusters (Between 6'2" and 7'6" before I broke down in 2003). I've had to retune my surfing to suit the board, and I'm not good enough to be able to dial it in in a single surf with it seeming to take a good couple of surfs in decent waves to adjust my back foot to the minion sweet spot which is as far back as you can get. I surf a lot off my front foot as per my single fin roots. Having said that, I see another local bloke here who sup surfs really well has just picked one up, and he's riding it as a thruster.

i don't find the minion hangs on in high speed turns like my starby 8'5 x 29 with c drives in it. The minion is great fun and loose but I can't gett the drive out of it that I get for the other board. the thing is though, that they are so stable for their size, and if you've recently gotten into it you will find that the boards which will draw the lines your looking for will be pretty hard work to stay upright on. If you're coming off a 9' board, the minion will give you the stability of a mid 8' board at least and without the nose swing weight. IMO you're better to have a longer narrower board to go rail to rail rather than shorter and fatter if you're on traditional boards. The minions overcome this to a degree. There's so many around I'm sure you'll see one and might get a quick paddle in exchange for a few set waves.....

supthecreek
2749 posts
31 Dec 2014 11:54AM
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lotus blossom, thanks so much for the suggestion... sorry that I missed it in earlier visits

paperboy
NSW, 102 posts
31 Dec 2014 3:25PM
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Thanks Tang , yeah I think that drive you mention is what I am seeing ,I guess Ill have to make a trade off somewhere . As far as stability goes that the worry , can one realistically drop a foot and a half of length and an inch and a half of width on a traditional surfboard shape and get used to it ?
Thanks again mate thats the sort of nfo I was after cheers

Tang
VIC, 580 posts
31 Dec 2014 4:25PM
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You're probably looking at a max of 18 inches off the length of an elliptical shape and around 2 inches width depending on the length and volume of the board (and your balance). For my money, I think you're better to have more length, a little more width but much less thickness (or at least keeping volume in the nose which is out of the water when you turn) to get the responsiveness better - I find it doesnt really matter if you've got an extra 6 inches of nose in front of you if your rails can be thinner and you can bury them. of course this is going to depend to a significant degree how the foam and volume are distributed through the board etc, and I'm no shaper. Others on these pages could add a lot more to this. Good luck.

Kami
1566 posts
1 Jan 2015 4:22PM
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My input to Tang reply at pat's question is to watch the widest point in the different outlines made trought Minion's evolution.

IMO, this widest point is the main purpose of its design. Planshape, rocker lines, foil coming out from this widest point position in a shortboardshaping's logic and keeping stand up paddling ability.

There is no way cutting out nose and tail from a SUP to build a Minion board

colas
5370 posts
1 Jan 2015 8:43PM
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Kami said..
There is no way cutting out nose and tail from a SUP to build a Minion board


I agree that the design is more refined than that, but Tomo shows that it really looks like the nose was just chopped off :-)

djansen
QLD, 77 posts
6 Jan 2015 6:56PM
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I think the biggest difference between standard design and the minion shape is the widest point position.

Here you can see the position of the two widest points

I found that because of this a different stance is required and a different style of surfing is required. I am also a front foot surfer and this design compels me to be a rear foot surfer which has enhanced my surfing in leaps and bounds :)

The wider tail has advantages and disadvantages. Me personally I love a fat tail :) Wave picks you up and throws you into it. love it. Fat tails are super fast. love it. fat tails are more stable at rest love it. disadvantages....havn't found one yet.

As for the pointy nose ....well after getting the nose in my mid section after trying to climb an incoming white water wave (note to self..use surf stance when trying to climb over white water when paddling out) and nearly seeing my intestines impaled on the nose of the board...I am happy with the blunt edge.

Anyway let me know your comments and feedback

P.S. and rider update to my review

Sold the Naish 8.3 x 32 enough said......

colas
5370 posts
6 Jan 2015 6:33PM
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Select to expand quote
paperboy said..
So I guess my question is to someone in a similar situation does it tick all your sufing boxes or does it still leave you wanting a bit more



My mini-Simmons ticks all the boxes... In weak slow waves. It is a kind of "Wave amplifier"
Basically these wide ass designs give you a lot more power, so you an get the same kind of surfing feeling you had on a shortboard without the need to find perfect, powerful peaks.
For me the advantage is being able to have the feeling of surfing powerful waves without having to battle the crowds for the best peak around, or having to take risks (close to rocks, urchin-infested slabs, ...)

You should however ride them short. There is no way that a 8'+ board will feel as lively as your 6'4", especially as they need to be ridden from the rear, and the nose is waaaaay up there. Short will mean less smooth glide but more bursts of speed.

Also, I find out that you need to put the fins really far back to get drive in turns. With the foot so much on the tail, with standard fin placement the board turns too early, either burying the front rail or dishpaning as the rail had not time to set up enough in the water. Try to get a board with a lot of fin boxes.

The drawback is that you have to move your rear foot around, this will be the difference with your shortboard where you could go rail-to-rail without moving it.

On more powerful (hollow) waves narrower tails are still easier to handle, however. I still have a "pumpking seed" outline in my quiver for hollow days.

jonbro
NSW, 55 posts
7 Jan 2015 12:23PM
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Check out Dan Manns new offering... Will we see this progress to the Paddle Boards?



Surfrod66
NSW, 665 posts
8 Jan 2015 12:38PM
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Starboard are going down this path as well check out the NUT in the range and soon to be released HYPER NUT.. I was a non believer till I got so much positive feed back at Merimbula that I had to go surf it my self.. Demo one you will be surprised

Tang
VIC, 580 posts
10 Jan 2015 9:47PM
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Whoa. The degree of choice and innovation is getting ridiculous. I'd be interested to see how the dims of a cornice could be applied to a sup so that you could stand on it and still surf it.

MarkchiroSUP
NSW, 4 posts
11 Jan 2015 1:47PM
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Casso,
I'm also looking at a Minion. Have you compared the Minion to the Gulliver for quality and resale ability?

MarkchiroSUP
NSW, 4 posts
11 Jan 2015 1:53PM
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Casso said..
Whilst holidaying in the Sunshine State recently, I caught up with Simon Hunnybun, the mastermind behind DEEP Oceanboards, for a surf. We went to a quieter spot on the Goldy and he brought along his mini quiver of strange looking "Minion" quads. I wasn't sure if these weird looking things were really my cup of tea so I didn't borrow one then and just took out my standard 8'0". Halfway through the surf, my curiosity got the better of me and I asked him if we could swap boards for a couple of waves. Long story short, after few waves on his little 7'0" - I HAD to have one myself and consequently had one ordered by the time we got back to the car park.

One word: Speedy

The board is 7'2" x 26 7/8" x 3 15/16" x 92L



My own little baby arrived a few weeks later and I wasn't disappointed - and that was just based on its looks. The pigment tint impregnated, carbon striped, innegra glass job turned out beautifully. The glasser at the DEEP factory sure knows what he is doing - especially with all those sharp edges, channels, bevels and concaves that go into these crazy Minion designs. At only 5.6 kilograms, he obviously also knows how to squeegee out the excess epoxy to reduce weight while still maintaining strength.

I woke up at 4:30am after a restless night's sleep (way too excited to sleep) in order to make the journey to a secluded river mouth which was forecast to be cranking. I knew the waves at this place would make the ideal proving ground for the new 7'2". We were greeted with fast, mechanical, walling lefts peeling down the bank for over a kilometre - an epic canvas to work with. The super long break is great until you have to paddle a 7'2" the 1.4 kilometres to the take-off zone. I don't like paddling that kind of distance on my 14 footer!

After about 20 minutes I arrived at the peak just as a decent set arrived. Being the only one out there, I was able to take my pick. I chose the second one and stroked into it. It was a feathering, just overhead, super smooth, left hander and I was in the perfect position for it. The 7'2" picked it up nicely and I was reminded of my surf on Simon's board that these things actually paddle into waves very well - they seem to start planing even with the slightest lift provided by a wave before it even breaks.

Dropping down face of this gentle giant from the depths of Broken Bay felt great on the little sled. One would think I was under gunned (an 85 kilogram guy on a 7'2" in overhead waves) but the Minion stepped up and handled the drop and subsequent drawn out bottom turn with the grace of a much longer board. I guess the parallel rails allow her to impersonate a semi-gun and perform appropriately when required. Banking back up the face after the loooong bottom turn, I was presented with the first speedy section of this aquatic journey to the channel. A quick redirectional top turn was in order before slamming the little girl into overdrive for the race to the cutback section. BOOM - this is where you really see the relatively huge planing area kick in and the Minion took off. A few little pumps for good measure and in no time at all I had outraced the lip and covered the 50 or so meters to the next section. Wow, this puppy is quick! Buckle up and hang on peeps.

Being a natural footer and this beast being a left, I was about to conduct the first official backhand cutback assessment of the 7'2". The words swooping, grinding and smooth come to mind. A clean, flowing, round house cutback ensued which felt so lovely. The rail dug deep and held all the way through and the board maintained speed until it had come around a full 270 degrees where I was confronted with wall of foam. I stomped on the tail to lift the big square nose up just enough to clear the bottom of the foam and the Minion proceeded to rise vertically up the white wall almost magically levitating above the turbulence below. A quick crouch down and a transition of weight to my heels had me spinning my snubby friend through a tight pivot at the top of the foam which ricocheted me back onto the green wall of clean water again. These foam climbs, along with white water floaters, was one of the most surprising things about this board - it deals with the turbulence and bounce so well with that large planing area maintaining stability so beautifully. In conclusion, the 7'2" performs exceptionally well in a big wave backhand cutback scenario. Exceptionally well in indeed.

A couple of nice big s-turns were next on the menu where I was just feeling out the rails and the lines they would draw with differing levels of push and tilt. Again, a very smooth response with heaps of speed maintained through the turns that utilised the rail.

After a plethora of different sections offering ample opportunities to experiment with different turns, the end section eventually arrived. I had plenty of speed (not an unusual situation to be in when surfing this SUP) and the crumbly close-out was just asking to be slapped. I swooped into a critical backhand bottom turn with my paddle on my heal side and drove up the face towards the lip. A quick paddle transition and weight distribution to my toe side rail just as I reached the foamy crest resulted in me being in the perfect position to test out the Minion's dish pan potential. I sank the big double swallow tail to begin the whip then flattened out the deck and pushed hard with my back foot. The tail spun, then slid as it lost resistance in the white water and came all the way around until both my heals were pointing towards the shore. The fins then bit into a bit of green water and I managed to reverse the spin direction and bring the 7'2" back around so it was facing the right way again. That felt nice, really nice and gave me a glimpse of the versatility of this funny looking duck under my feet - not only is it great for long drawn out carves but also for critical whips and controlled slides. Woo hoo, what a great combination.

I got a heap more waves before the tide eventually swallowed the fading swell and every one of those waves consolidated my feelings I had about this board after that first one. This is one super fun board with so much speed to burn, so much potential and so much versatility.

Highs:
- Super fast
- Planes through dead sections beautifully
- Holds a rail all the way through big carving turns
- Floats over turbulent foam nicely
- So light and easy to throw around
- Super strong construction
- Very stable for its width
- Paddles ok for its length
- Works great in tiny or large waves

Lows:
- Can take a few waves to feel out its nuances if you're used to a traditional shape
- Too short for my toes to push off the tail when jumping to my feet from a prone paddling position (makes that process slightly awkward)
- Scary looking tail that has potential to do some damage to one's head during a legrope fling-back
- Too popular (everyone wants a go so it reduces my time on it)
- Too interesting (everybody wants to stop me to have a chat about it).

A few more pics:







Casso,
Had you seen the Gulliver VBox and compared quality of workmanship?

Casso
NSW, 3778 posts
11 Jan 2015 4:36PM
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MarkchiroSUP said...
Casso,
I'm also looking at a Minion. Have you compared the Minion to the Gulliver for quality and resale ability?

I've haven't surfed or even seen Gulliver's Minion equivalent. Sorry. The photos of them look good though.



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"DEEP Oceanboards 7'2" Minion // Review" started by Casso