Its a principle not a law, although it relies upon the laws of physics and is key to the theory of fluid mechanics. The actual principle says: Archimedes' principle indicates that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces.
So Im not sure how this relates directly to the actual volume distribution. This more relates to the actual volume measurement i.e. 104 litres will support around 104kg all things being equal. The mysteries of shaping come into play a lot here with the actual bottom shape, the rail shape and the volume distribution. Once again I tip my hat to these masters of the black art, how on earth someone can make something that is stable to stand on in a moving body of water (your average beachy) is simply beyond my understanding.
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.
It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks
Th
Its a principle not a law, although it relies upon the laws of physics and is key to the theory of fluid mechanics. The actual principle says: Archimedes' principle indicates that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces.
So Im not sure how this relates directly to the actual volume distribution. This more relates to the actual volume measurement i.e. 104 litres will support around 104kg all things being equal. The mysteries of shaping come into play a lot here with the actual bottom shape, the rail shape and the volume distribution. Once again I tip my hat to these masters of the black art, how on earth someone can make something that is stable to stand on in a moving body of water (your average beachy) is simply beyond my understanding.
As you said gregc, there is no magic tricks to shape shortSUP stable as much as it can be with a reduced minimum buoyancy to an equal Archimedes relation between weight and volume.
This is a just a matter to balance the more volume in board extremities as MINION's shaper do on his wonderful board. So rectangle shape is perfect to this purpoise, the magic is just to organise geometric rules to make something rideable.
) which could also look the goods for you.
Its a principle not a law, although it relies upon the laws of physics and is key to the theory of fluid mechanics. The actual principle says: Archimedes' principle indicates that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces.
So Im not sure how this relates directly to the actual volume distribution. This more relates to the actual volume measurement i.e. 104 litres will support around 104kg all things being equal. The mysteries of shaping come into play a lot here with the actual bottom shape, the rail shape and the volume distribution. Once again I tip my hat to these masters of the black art, how on earth someone can make something that is stable to stand on in a moving body of water (your average beachy) is simply beyond my understanding.
Gregc,
Really?? Dude without getting into the dynamics of what is involved let me just say this to you but Archimedes Principle IS a LAW. The principle was PROVEN and became LAW. It not only RELIES upon laws of physics but IS in fact a law OF physics. You have misunderstood the actual statement which is surprising because you actually refer to it. The point that I was making remains the same. You cant supersede the law. It does not matter how you distribute the volume but a 110kg guy will not float a 105L board. The reason why the Minion and its other variants work is because you have an initial volume to work with at a much reduced length to traditional shapes so you are compelled to make adjustments in thickness and overall width etc.
I agree with you in that much kudos to the guys who shape these boards.
Cheers Ozzie
Height and distribution of weight makes a huge difference in these boards. If you are relatively short you can do smaller. All the 6'2 and 90kg+ suppers on minions here are on the 7'8" or 7'10". IMHO same weight at 5'8" tall could all be at least one size down.
I have found, at 85kg, from experiencing the Minion 7'4 x 27.75" @104L that the volume is still relative to a Fanatic Prowave 8'5 x 28.75" @109L. Regardless of if Archimedes Principle is a Law or Principle the key thing I have found, that is probably useful for others thinking of going-the-way-of-the-Minion, is that you can go similar volume to what you already know you can ride and even drop 5L volume with no issues with stability. It was a big gamble for me (or you) to lash out all that cash on a board I have never step foot on hoping like **** it was the right size, so it was awesome to know that the 7'4 Minion 'feels' about the same volume as the Prowave 8'5 so I was stoked I didn't get a Minion that was too small or too big even i.e. this info might help others get the right size. I would like to try a big Minion to see what that would be like for the choppy sessions.
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.
It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks
Mags.....aka Mark Temple.
Tony Dalton different guy who rides "old technology" Starboard![]()
![]()
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.
It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks
Mags.....aka Mark Temple.
Tony Dalton different guy who rides "old technology" Starboard![]()
![]()
Old technology - FFS - at least the decks don't sink around the handle and need additional cost and very old vacuum bagging tecnology that adds a kilo to stop it ![]()
![]()
oh oh - I'll be in trouble with the "minion set" now!!!![]()
Today i learn what FFS means
thx you ![]()
IMO, Minion built is a surfboard way to do it, this traditional craft of hand laminating done is livable to stand on , doesn't feel artificial as boomer board![]()
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.
It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks
Mags.....aka Mark Temple.
Tony Dalton different guy who rides "old technology" Starboard![]()
![]()
Old technology - FFS - at least the decks don't sink around the handle and need additional cost and very old vacuum bagging tecnology that adds a kilo to stop it ![]()
![]()
oh oh - I'll be in trouble with the "minion set" now!!!![]()
Caught a crusty old sea dog![]()
Yep minions have got a Fast Fin System ![]()
Still love ya Russh![]()
GoodDr, I very much appreciate your link... "Mags"? aka Tony Dalton was standout on his Minion.... along with some others on Tomoesque boards. Good to see the big old boy shredding along with the Dogman.
It looked like a fun comp...Good stuff, Thanks
Mags.....aka Mark Temple.
Tony Dalton different guy who rides "old technology" Starboard![]()
![]()
Old technology - FFS - at least the decks don't sink around the handle and need additional cost and very old vacuum bagging tecnology that adds a kilo to stop it ![]()
oh oh - I'll be in trouble with the "minion set" now!!!![]()
Caught a crusty old sea dog
Yep minions have got a Fast Fin System
Still love ya Russh![]()
just takin the pi$$ doc
If ya want old techno try my PSH ripper - bamboo that just keeps splitting, cracking and too easy to put your knee or other body parts through - it currently looks like bamboo jigsaw puzzle these
Hey guys,
Ive been following this thread for a while now and im looking at getting a minion.
Im just confused as to what size to get ive contacted the guys at deep but id imagine they are on holidays.
Im about 173cm tall and weigh about 92kegs on a bad day im currently riding a mana 8'5 Gt. Regards
Jason
Hey guys,
Ive been following this thread for a while now and im looking at getting a minion.
Im just confused as to what size to get ive contacted the guys at deep but id imagine they are on holidays.
Im about 173cm tall and weigh about 92kegs on a bad day im currently riding a mana 8'5 Gt. Regards
Jason
Hey Jason
check this link
all the minion riders give size, height, weight etc.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/calling-all-minion-riders/?SearchTerms=Minion
Hey JasonR the deep website gives you a good idea but here are the measurements they recommend
I have a 7.10 and weigh in at under 90 kG before a xmas feast and certainly don't have the balance skills of a cat. I absolutely love mine and the more I surf it the better it gets.
Like a lot of others through injury and missing surfing got a sup to get some waves ,barge of a thing soon frustrated not being able to surf how I used to ,got another sup 9 foot more suited to surfing ,better, could bury a rail but still ended up frustrated way too much surfboard , now on the hunt for next board have been reading all the threads on these vanguard style boards and watching all the footage I can . But they dont look to do what a sub 8 foot x sub 30 traditional board can do on a wave ( I mean no offence people are ripping on them and I get stoked watching them )
So I guess my question is to someone in a similar situation does it tick all your sufing boxes or does it still leave you wanting a bit more ( I rode a 6 4 for 30 odd years before breaking down)
Cheers pat
Like a lot of others through injury and missing surfing got a sup to get some waves ,barge of a thing soon frustrated not being able to surf how I used to ,got another sup 9 foot more suited to surfing ,better, could bury a rail but still ended up frustrated way too much surfboard , now on the hunt for next board have been reading all the threads on these vanguard style boards and watching all the footage I can . But they dont look to do what a sub 8 foot x sub 30 traditional board can do on a wave ( I mean no offence people are ripping on them and I get stoked watching them )
So I guess my question is to someone in a similar situation does it tick all your sufing boxes or does it still leave you wanting a bit more ( I rode a 6 4 for 30 odd years before breaking down)
Cheers pat
Depends how you surfed, pat. My minion isnt quite right for me, has a bit too much foam in it plus I'm not a quad surfer having learnt on singles and then spent 20 years on thrusters (Between 6'2" and 7'6" before I broke down in 2003). I've had to retune my surfing to suit the board, and I'm not good enough to be able to dial it in in a single surf with it seeming to take a good couple of surfs in decent waves to adjust my back foot to the minion sweet spot which is as far back as you can get. I surf a lot off my front foot as per my single fin roots. Having said that, I see another local bloke here who sup surfs really well has just picked one up, and he's riding it as a thruster.
i don't find the minion hangs on in high speed turns like my starby 8'5 x 29 with c drives in it. The minion is great fun and loose but I can't gett the drive out of it that I get for the other board. the thing is though, that they are so stable for their size, and if you've recently gotten into it you will find that the boards which will draw the lines your looking for will be pretty hard work to stay upright on. If you're coming off a 9' board, the minion will give you the stability of a mid 8' board at least and without the nose swing weight. IMO you're better to have a longer narrower board to go rail to rail rather than shorter and fatter if you're on traditional boards. The minions overcome this to a degree. There's so many around I'm sure you'll see one and might get a quick paddle in exchange for a few set waves.....
Thanks Tang , yeah I think that drive you mention is what I am seeing ,I guess Ill have to make a trade off somewhere . As far as stability goes that the worry , can one realistically drop a foot and a half of length and an inch and a half of width on a traditional surfboard shape and get used to it ?
Thanks again mate thats the sort of nfo I was after cheers
You're probably looking at a max of 18 inches off the length of an elliptical shape and around 2 inches width depending on the length and volume of the board (and your balance). For my money, I think you're better to have more length, a little more width but much less thickness (or at least keeping volume in the nose which is out of the water when you turn) to get the responsiveness better - I find it doesnt really matter if you've got an extra 6 inches of nose in front of you if your rails can be thinner and you can bury them. of course this is going to depend to a significant degree how the foam and volume are distributed through the board etc, and I'm no shaper. Others on these pages could add a lot more to this. Good luck.
My input to Tang reply at pat's question is to watch the widest point in the different outlines made trought Minion's evolution.
IMO, this widest point is the main purpose of its design. Planshape, rocker lines, foil coming out from this widest point position in a shortboardshaping's logic and keeping stand up paddling ability.
There is no way cutting out nose and tail from a SUP to build a Minion board![]()
I think the biggest difference between standard design and the minion shape is the widest point position.
Here you can see the position of the two widest points
I found that because of this a different stance is required and a different style of surfing is required. I am also a front foot surfer and this design compels me to be a rear foot surfer which has enhanced my surfing in leaps and bounds :)
The wider tail has advantages and disadvantages. Me personally I love a fat tail :) Wave picks you up and throws you into it. love it. Fat tails are super fast. love it. fat tails are more stable at rest love it. disadvantages....havn't found one yet.
As for the pointy nose ....well after getting the nose in my mid section after trying to climb an incoming white water wave (note to self..use surf stance when trying to climb over white water when paddling out) and nearly seeing my intestines impaled on the nose of the board...I am happy with the blunt edge.
Anyway let me know your comments and feedback
P.S. and rider update to my review
Sold the Naish 8.3 x 32 enough said......
So I guess my question is to someone in a similar situation does it tick all your sufing boxes or does it still leave you wanting a bit more
My mini-Simmons ticks all the boxes... In weak slow waves. It is a kind of "Wave amplifier"
Basically these wide ass designs give you a lot more power, so you an get the same kind of surfing feeling you had on a shortboard without the need to find perfect, powerful peaks.
For me the advantage is being able to have the feeling of surfing powerful waves without having to battle the crowds for the best peak around, or having to take risks (close to rocks, urchin-infested slabs, ...)
You should however ride them short. There is no way that a 8'+ board will feel as lively as your 6'4", especially as they need to be ridden from the rear, and the nose is waaaaay up there. Short will mean less smooth glide but more bursts of speed.
Also, I find out that you need to put the fins really far back to get drive in turns. With the foot so much on the tail, with standard fin placement the board turns too early, either burying the front rail or dishpaning as the rail had not time to set up enough in the water. Try to get a board with a lot of fin boxes.
The drawback is that you have to move your rear foot around, this will be the difference with your shortboard where you could go rail-to-rail without moving it.
On more powerful (hollow) waves narrower tails are still easier to handle, however. I still have a "pumpking seed" outline in my quiver for hollow days.
Starboard are going down this path as well check out the NUT in the range and soon to be released HYPER NUT.. I was a non believer till I got so much positive feed back at Merimbula that I had to go surf it my self.. Demo one you will be surprised
Whoa. The degree of choice and innovation is getting ridiculous. I'd be interested to see how the dims of a cornice could be applied to a sup so that you could stand on it and still surf it.
Casso,
I'm also looking at a Minion. Have you compared the Minion to the Gulliver for quality and resale ability?
Casso,
I'm also looking at a Minion. Have you compared the Minion to the Gulliver for quality and resale ability?
I've haven't surfed or even seen Gulliver's Minion equivalent. Sorry. The photos of them look good though.