Select to expand quoter13 said..
Yes Dudley Dix used what he termed radiused chine in 1994 as per here - 20 years after Van de Stadt.
www.dixdesign.com/radply.htm
Now even most of the frozen snot yachts are using chines..........
The Bluebird 22 ply design from the 1950s is an excellent sea-boat, and translated well into fibreglass. Was once called the "Holden of the Harbour" in the days when people were happy with 22ft.
Select to expand quote
If I had the coin and storage Id jump on that. It's local too! Most fun I've had on water is on Nacra cats.
This shows how prices are moving.
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/van-de-stadt-maestro-31/249074
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
It's finally gone!
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/sparkman-stephens-39/230425
Lovely boat and I wish the new owner well.
Not exactly.
My understanding is, its under contract for $43,000 to be picked up when the Victorian Lockdown is lifted.
It could be years before the sale is settled, if it does.
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/swanson-36/250969
Im tempted to fly up and look at this.....thoughts?
Rigging needs replacing. new motor with 231 hours
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..
This shows how prices are moving.
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/van-de-stadt-maestro-31/249074
Initial list price does not mean much IMHO. However, looks like it was a "company" boat, so that is a good sign.
BTW Tell us how your Swanson with extra large sails performs. Was reading an article of how a big increase in sail area transformed a UK Colvic-Watson motor-sailer.
One of Laurie Davidson's 1974 designs - reminds a bit of the Miller Matika II
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/davidson-32-davidson-32ft-sloop-built-1974-in-nz/250982
Select to expand quoter13 said..
One of Laurie Davidson's 1974 designs - reminds a bit of the Miller Matika II
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/davidson-32-davidson-32ft-sloop-built-1974-in-nz/250982
If she will stand a rigorus survey I think it is a bit of a nick at $29,000.
Select to expand quoter13 said..
One of Laurie Davidson's 1974 designs - reminds a bit of the Miller Matika II
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/davidson-32-davidson-32ft-sloop-built-1974-in-nz/250982
How are those 4 layers of Kauri held together? Would 1974 predate the common use of epoxy cold moulding?
Looks nice if it is sound.
Select to expand quotecisco said..r13 said..
One of Laurie Davidson's 1974 designs - reminds a bit of the Miller Matika II
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/davidson-32-davidson-32ft-sloop-built-1974-in-nz/250982
If she will stand a rigorus survey I think it is a bit of a nick at $29,000.
That's a massive drop in price to when she came on the market first.
Select to expand quotejohn24 said..r13 said..
One of Laurie Davidson's 1974 designs - reminds a bit of the Miller Matika II
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/davidson-32-davidson-32ft-sloop-built-1974-in-nz/250982
How are those 4 layers of Kauri held together? Would 1974 predate the common use of epoxy cold moulding?
Looks nice if it is sound.
The first boat I built was a Moth sailing dinghy in 1969. I used Urea-formaldehyde glue because it was reasonably priced. There were plenty of epoxy glues I could have used but unlike now these were fairly expensive. Boat builders buying resins in 44 gallon drums though would have been a different story.
Yes probably used a Resorcinol glue as assume Ramona was referring to. Good TDS here and summary article.
www.nightingalesupply.com.au/PDF/Tech_data_adhesves/R15%20RESIN-GRASP%20RP51H%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Orica%20.pdf
www.christinedemerchant.com/adhesive-glue-resorcinol.html
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Yes probably used a Resorcinol glue as assume Ramona was referring to. Good TDS here and summary article.
www.nightingalesupply.com.au/PDF/Tech_data_adhesves/R15%20RESIN-GRASP%20RP51H%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Orica%20.pdf
www.christinedemerchant.com/adhesive-glue-resorcinol.html
Urea was the yellow stuff, Resorcinal was the deep red coloured stuff you see in plywood.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..r13 said..
Yes probably used a Resorcinol glue as assume Ramona was referring to. Good TDS here and summary article.
www.nightingalesupply.com.au/PDF/Tech_data_adhesves/R15%20RESIN-GRASP%20RP51H%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Orica%20.pdf
www.christinedemerchant.com/adhesive-glue-resorcinol.html
Urea was the yellow stuff, Resorcinal was the deep red coloured stuff you see in plywood.
Ramona the melamine urea formaldehyde resin you probably used was manufactured by Selleys and sold as high stress wood glue 308. It was the glue to use if you wanted nearly invisible glue lines. Selleys stopped distributing it on the 29th September 2016 possibly due to it being classed as a hazardous substance by Safe Work Australia.
Select to expand quoteSV Wavesong said..
Has this one been noted?
RIVAL 34 YACHT | eBay @MIUI| m.ebay.com.au/itm/RIVAL-34-YACHT/254690618698?ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F705-53470-19255-0%2F1%3Fcampid%3D5337996411%26customid%3Defaf6ef5-cbff-4998-a07b-44d6954dd5dd%26toolid%3D10049%26mpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com.au%252Fitm%252FRIVAL-34-YACHT%252F254690618698%253Fhash%253Ditem3b4cbe6d4a%253Ag%253ARcIAAOSwunNeSAET%26srcrot%3D705-53470-19255-0%26rvr_id%3D2566492807001%26rvr_ts%3D14df5e701740ac3c0d97dc79fff37414&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true
Two or three times so far I believe.
Methinks removal of the hard dodger may improve the yachts value more than what it cost to put it there
OK, good one, forgot about the 308. See details below. An excellent wood glue along with Resorcinol, both were used extensively in the 70s and 80s..........would like to do a study on why 308 was classed as hazardous substance but not epoxy with its well known side effects...............but won't go there............308 was not for permanently immersed boats - only for off the beach craft and masts.
www.msdsdigital.com/high-stress-wood-glue-308-kit-discontinued-29-september-2016-msds
Select to expand quoteLooseChange said..Ramona said..r13 said..
Yes probably used a Resorcinol glue as assume Ramona was referring to. Good TDS here and summary article.
www.nightingalesupply.com.au/PDF/Tech_data_adhesves/R15%20RESIN-GRASP%20RP51H%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20Orica%20.pdf
www.christinedemerchant.com/adhesive-glue-resorcinol.html
Urea was the yellow stuff, Resorcinal was the deep red coloured stuff you see in plywood.
Ramona the melamine urea formaldehyde resin you probably used was manufactured by Selleys and sold as high stress wood glue 308. It was the glue to use if you wanted nearly invisible glue lines. Selleys stopped distributing it on the 29th September 2016 possibly due to it being classed as a hazardous substance by Safe Work Australia.
I could not afford the 308 glue. It came in a nice box with pictures of yachts on it. Mine came in a brown paper bag, just a yellow powder to which I added the hardener. It did have invisible glue lines because the joints had to be perfect. Not like epoxy where glue lines 2 or 3 mm wide are possible.
Thinking back on it the 308 glue was probably not a Selley's product in the 1960's. More like Epicraft or one of those brands that folded.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..Ramona said..
It's finally gone!
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/sparkman-stephens-39/230425
Lovely boat and I wish the new owner well.
Not exactly.
My understanding is, its under contract for $43,000 to be picked up when the Victorian Lockdown is lifted.
It could be years before the sale is settled, if it does.
A week of cleaning and polishing and $10,000 on electrics and rigging and it is a great buy. Maybe another $10,000 on standing rigging but still a great yacht for the money.
That is the same price I sold Morning Bird for, $42,500.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..Bundeenabuoy said..Ramona said..
It's finally gone!
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/sparkman-stephens-39/230425
Lovely boat and I wish the new owner well.
Not exactly.
My understanding is, its under contract for $43,000 to be picked up when the Victorian Lockdown is lifted.
It could be years before the sale is settled, if it does.
A week of cleaning and polishing and $10,000 on electrics and rigging and it is a great buy. Maybe another $10,000 on standing rigging but still a great yacht for the money.
That is the same price I sold Morning Bird for, $42,500.
Good to see you back.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
A week of cleaning and polishing and $10,000 on electrics and rigging and it is a great buy. Maybe another $10,000 on standing rigging but still a great yacht for the money.
That is the same price I sold Morning Bird for, $42,500.
That's what everyone said about my boat, but in-fact took at least another $50K to get it to a point where I was happy to take it into Bass Strait !
I think that S&S39 is great value for money, but to take it into blue water like the great yacht MorningBrid, its going to need new sails, life raft, electronics, autopilot, running rigging, standing rigging, through hulls replaced, safety gear, bilge pumps, plumbing, dingy, batteries etc. I am sure there will be more once it is out of the water it's taken for a shake down sail. It looks like it has been sitting doing nothing for quite a while.
A
Select to expand quoteAndrew68 said..MorningBird said..
A week of cleaning and polishing and $10,000 on electrics and rigging and it is a great buy. Maybe another $10,000 on standing rigging but still a great yacht for the money.
That is the same price I sold Morning Bird for, $42,500.
That's what everyone said about my boat, but in-fact took at least another $50K to get it to a point where I was happy to take it into Bass Strait !
I think that S&S39 is great value for money, but to take it into blue water like the great yacht MorningBrid, its going to need new sails, life raft, electronics, autopilot, running rigging, standing rigging, through hulls replaced, safety gear, bilge pumps, plumbing, dingy, batteries etc. I am sure there will be more once it is out of the water it's taken for a shake down sail. It looks like it has been sitting doing nothing for quite a while.
A
Like he said.
It is not the sticker price that is the problem.
Looking at the ad, take another $75k
Select to expand quoteAndrew68 said..MorningBird said..
A week of cleaning and polishing and $10,000 on electrics and rigging and it is a great buy. Maybe another $10,000 on standing rigging but still a great yacht for the money.
That is the same price I sold Morning Bird for, $42,500.
That's what everyone said about my boat, but in-fact took at least another $50K to get it to a point where I was happy to take it into Bass Strait !
I think that S&S39 is great value for money, but to take it into blue water like the great yacht MorningBrid, its going to need new sails, life raft, electronics, autopilot, running rigging, standing rigging, through hulls replaced, safety gear, bilge pumps, plumbing, dingy, batteries etc. I am sure there will be more once it is out of the water it's taken for a shake down sail. It looks like it has been sitting doing nothing for quite a while.
A
If you have unlimited time, and money is not an issue then this is a great project.
We all have different criteria with variable skill sets. What is an enjoyable challenge for one can be a never ending nightmare for another.
Andrew's phrase 'where I was happy with it' resonates with me.
My other consideration is 'what will I be able to sell it for' if I need to sell it in a reasonable time frame.
Some owners 'selling' price their boats by the time and money they have put in and occasionally this is a successful process if the result is special. Some of us will pay 'over the odds' to own it.
In my experience unfortunately this does not happen very often but it is all fun and games and how lucky we are to play.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..Andrew68 said..MorningBird said..
A week of cleaning and polishing and $10,000 on electrics and rigging and it is a great buy. Maybe another $10,000 on standing rigging but still a great yacht for the money.
That is the same price I sold Morning Bird for, $42,500.
If you have unlimited time, and money is not an issue then this is a great project.
We all have different criteria with variable skill sets. What is an enjoyable challenge for one can be a never ending nightmare for another.
Andrew's phrase 'where I was happy with it' resonates with me.
OK, I must admit I am new to sailing, but what I have found is that almost anything metal on a boat has a serviceable life of 20 years, or less.
The sailors I know that are doing offshore work are undertaking complete re-fits on a 10-15 year cycle and this is consistent with boats that are for sale that are being used off shore. I know about 10 people who have lost their rigs and I have seen first hand lots of examples of near misses - all on old kit that would have catastrophic. I have seen out of date life rafts fail, VHF radio's with less than a 5-mile reception, anchor fittings, fuel fittings, auto-pilot, bilge pumps fail. I have been the only yacht out of a half a dozen that has a floating dinghy with a working outboard motor.
If I was fair weather club sailing in the bay, sure no problem, but 100 miles off land in 40 knots it is a different story. Then you also need to consider the liability risk if you are taking on crew.
I think the costs depend on what point in the re-fit life cycle the boat is and whether you are prepared to run to failure or have a reasonable margin of safety. I am an engineer, qualified electrician, do all my carpentry, fibre glassing, engine servicing, assist my rigger, climb the mast, search the web on ebay, gum tree for cheap parts and I still couldn't get the costs down. All the small costs add up. Despite all the work, the boat still looks the same as when I bought it, I have pretty low standards, I just want to be happy that the boat floats, rig wont come down, the keel won't come off, I can call for help and I wont be sued. I enjoy the challenge and love the boat, but for most that want a similar level of safety to what they would expect for their family or work, it is expensive BOAT business.
There is definitely a group of sailors that are oblivious to safety risk. Here are some photos from my boat that previous owners and others have taken into bass strait. None of this was immediately visible and was not picked up even in survey. This sort of stuff seems common, at least in Victoria, in older boats and I think should be expected over a 20 year life cycle.
50% of the deck fittings were like this. All between 15-20years old:
crack in fore stay turnbuckle (under furler):
don't worry, you can polish out those rust stains...someone actually said this to me about this stanchion before it cracked.
Select to expand quoteAndrew68 said..Bundeenabuoy said..Andrew68 said..MorningBird said..
A week of cleaning and polishing and $10,000 on electrics and rigging and it is a great buy. Maybe another $10,000 on standing rigging but still a great yacht for the money.
That is the same price I sold Morning Bird for, $42,500.
If you have unlimited time, and money is not an issue then this is a great project.
We all have different criteria with variable skill sets. What is an enjoyable challenge for one can be a never ending nightmare for another.
Andrew's phrase 'where I was happy with it' resonates with me.
OK, I must admit I am new to sailing, but what I have found is that almost anything metal on a boat has a serviceable life of 20 years, or less.
The sailors I know that are doing offshore work are undertaking complete re-fits on a 10-15 year cycle and this is consistent with boats that are for sale that are being used off shore. I know about 10 people who have lost their rigs and I have seen first hand lots of examples of near misses - all on old kit that would have catastrophic. I have seen out of date life rafts fail, VHF radio's with less than a 5-mile reception, anchor fittings, fuel fittings, auto-pilot, bilge pumps fail. I have been the only yacht out of a half a dozen that has a floating dinghy with a working outboard motor.
If I was fair weather club sailing in the bay, sure no problem, but 100 miles off land in 40 knots it is a different story. Then you also need to consider the liability risk if you are taking on crew.
I think the costs depend on what point in the re-fit life cycle the boat is and whether you are prepared to run to failure or have a reasonable margin of safety. I am an engineer, qualified electrician, do all my carpentry, fibre glassing, engine servicing, assist my rigger, climb the mast, search the web on ebay, gum tree for cheap parts and I still couldn't get the costs down. All the small costs add up. Despite all the work, the boat still looks the same as when I bought it, I have pretty low standards, I just want to be happy that the boat floats, rig wont come down, the keel won't come off, I can call for help and I wont be sued. I enjoy the challenge and love the boat, but for most that want a similar level of safety to what they would expect for their family or work, it is expensive BOAT business.
There is definitely a group of sailors that are oblivious to safety risk. Here are some photos from my boat that previous owners and others have taken into bass strait. None of this was immediately visible and was not picked up even in survey. This sort of stuff seems common, at least in Victoria, in older boats and I think should be expected over a 20 year life cycle.
50% of the deck fittings were like this. All between 15-20years old:
crack in fore stay turnbuckle (under furler):
don't worry, you can polish out those rust stains...someone actually said this to me about this stanchion before it cracked.
Like Andy says, on Defiance, the only metal not replaced has been the rudder shaft, keel bolts (previously done), stanchions (not original) and chainplates which were removed and resealed.
even the shaft tube was replaced with a GRP tube.
But the aim was to make it seaworthy.
Select to expand quoteAndrew68 said..Bundeenabuoy said..Andrew68 said..MorningBird said..
A week of cleaning and polishing and $10,000 on electrics and rigging and it is a great buy. Maybe another $10,000 on standing rigging but still a great yacht for the money.
That is the same price I sold Morning Bird for, $42,500.
If you have unlimited time, and money is not an issue then this is a great project.
We all have different criteria with variable skill sets. What is an enjoyable challenge for one can be a never ending nightmare for another.
Andrew's phrase 'where I was happy with it' resonates with me.
OK, I must admit I am new to sailing, but what I have found is that almost anything metal on a boat has a serviceable life of 20 years, or less.
The sailors I know that are doing offshore work are undertaking complete re-fits on a 10-15 year cycle and this is consistent with boats that are for sale that are being used off shore. I know about 10 people who have lost their rigs and I have seen first hand lots of examples of near misses - all on old kit that would have catastrophic. I have seen out of date life rafts fail, VHF radio's with less than a 5-mile reception, anchor fittings, fuel fittings, auto-pilot, bilge pumps fail. I have been the only yacht out of a half a dozen that has a floating dinghy with a working outboard motor.
If I was fair weather club sailing in the bay, sure no problem, but 100 miles off land in 40 knots it is a different story. Then you also need to consider the liability risk if you are taking on crew.
I think the costs depend on what point in the re-fit life cycle the boat is and whether you are prepared to run to failure or have a reasonable margin of safety. I am an engineer, qualified electrician, do all my carpentry, fibre glassing, engine servicing, assist my rigger, climb the mast, search the web on ebay, gum tree for cheap parts and I still couldn't get the costs down. All the small costs add up. Despite all the work, the boat still looks the same as when I bought it, I have pretty low standards, I just want to be happy that the boat floats, rig wont come down, the keel won't come off, I can call for help and I wont be sued. I enjoy the challenge and love the boat, but for most that want a similar level of safety to what they would expect for their family or work, it is expensive BOAT business.
There is definitely a group of sailors that are oblivious to safety risk. Here are some photos from my boat that previous owners and others have taken into bass strait. None of this was immediately visible and was not picked up even in survey. This sort of stuff seems common, at least in Victoria, in older boats and I think should be expected over a 20 year life cycle.
50% of the deck fittings were like this. All between 15-20years old:
crack in fore stay turnbuckle (under furler):
don't worry, you can polish out those rust stains...someone actually said this to me about this stanchion before it cracked.
The best post I have ever read on this or any forum, great thanks, trust all on the forum read it and take it on board for their next preventive (or preventative whichever you prefer) maintenance to-do list.
Having just started my own journey with a 1977 Currawong, I can only second r13's comments and commend Andrew68's post to all those contemplating buying their first boat.
Thanks, Andrew68!
By messenger, I have been chatting to a few people about the current focus of the thread as to buying boats cheaply and the costs of truly making them reliable for offshore passages.
Here are some unflattering pics of Defiance on the way through.
So be brave and jump in and get the big issues early.
Engine bay with engine removed for replacement and cleaning
The last one was a very small weep under a skin fitting that required a huge repair of three layers of Oregon planking
all the expensive work was fixing modifications made after launch that had not been done properly.
Deck repair because of a poorly installed anchor locker.
