Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
After re-rigging the tub I felt brave this morning and went for a fresh insurance quote for my boat. Some member mentioned youi
as a good alternative to Club Marine with whom l got one presently for $1000 without any extras.
Well...
this is ludicrous! Even by ClubM. standards. $ 5000
excess? $ 1557 premium? No extras.
So l kept on looking once l warmed up and behold, l found QBE
with an excellent quote $748 incl. all fees and gst and..., and with extra cover for special items $3000, sporting equipment $3000
and general equipment $5000 with $100 or $500 excess respectively.
My lucky day.
They must have a sale on.
I promise l never ever talk to youi again in my life.
I wonder why youi has called your rig optional cover this is not normal on my policy it states hull and then rig value not using the word optional anywhere it looks like you have the rig insured twice once in the policy and again as an expensive option
After recommending Pantanius to a few people, I won't be any more....
Racing yacht in WA, had rig inspection and was approved by insurer.
Not long after lost rig, made claim.
Insurer employed metallurgist to find fault with the rig and reject the claim
Select to expand quoterumblefish said..
After recommending Pantanius to a few people, I won't be any more....
Racing yacht in WA, had rig inspection and was approved by insurer.
Not long after lost rig, made claim.
Insurer employed metallurgist to find fault with the rig and reject the claim
3rd time I've heard the story. Not going to be good for their business in WA, small town and all!
Select to expand quoterumblefish said..
After recommending Pantanius to a few people, I won't be any more....
Racing yacht in WA, had rig inspection and was approved by insurer.
Not long after lost rig, made claim.
Insurer employed metallurgist to find fault with the rig and reject the claim
I'm with Pantaenius. First bad report that is more than anecdotal. I have heard on their claims after a few good ones.
I will contact them and enquire about this non payment of a claim. Can you tell me the boat name?
I'm on fore-aft mooring on the River and Youi were the only insurer to offer insurance without a full survey.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..rumblefish said..
After recommending Pantanius to a few people, I won't be any more....
Racing yacht in WA, had rig inspection and was approved by insurer.
Not long after lost rig, made claim.
Insurer employed metallurgist to find fault with the rig and reject the claim
I'm with Pantaenius. First bad report that is more than anecdotal. I have heard on their claims after a few good ones.
I will contact them and enquire about this non payment of a claim. Can you tell me the boat name?
Enterprise
Select to expand quotees02 said..
I'm on fore-aft mooring on the River and Youi were the only insurer to offer insurance without a full survey.
Is saving money on a survey worth it if they don't pay out in a claim?
Well, I do not know what the youi fella put on that paper and why, but my boat is 1989 to start with.
The rest is just dust as far as l am concerned.
He wanted me to put an insurance value on every main item
Like: value $42.000 out of this:
Rig:xyz thousand
Hull:abc thousand
Engine:xnu thousand
Contents:qwx thousand
I do not know where the other values have disappeared.
The whole process was childish. I had the feeling the fella did not want to waste effort on it.
He would rather be somewhere else.
That's for youi:
Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
Well, I do not know what the youi fella put on that paper and why, but my boat is 1989 to start with.
The rest is just dust as far as l am concerned.
He wanted me to put an insurance value on every main item
Like: value $42.000 out of this:
Rig:xyz thousand
Hull:abc thousand
Engine:xnu thousand
Contents:qwx thousand
I do not know where the other values have disappeared.
The whole process was childish. I had the feeling the fella did not want to waste effort on it.
He would rather be somewhere else.
That's for youi:
Allocating a value to the main components is fairly standard on boat insurance. That way, even if the boat is insured for $42k, if the motor is only worth $5k, and it is damaged in an accident, you only get $5k.
Just don't go to QBE. I first wrote to them asking for information on the progress of my claim in March. We've been through their complaints team, who keep on saying that the claims team will contact us. They still haven't.
It's a complete lack of care for customers. They did say that there may be delays because of cyclone Debbie, but my claim was in well before that.
I was with GIO for my boat. They advised me with 30 days notice before my renewal that they were no longer covering boats on swing moorings. That notice was on the 20th December. Makes it hard to get a survey done over Christmas and I was planning to be away for 3 weeks of that.
So I moved to Club Marine, who my sailing dinghy was already insured with. I also moved the car insurance, house insurance and business insurance away from GIO related companies. They did ring once to see why I was cancelling the policies, but didn't understand the connection.
I have had 2 claims with Club Marine, one for each boat. I pay extra for racing insurance, but that is to be expected. They are not the cheapest, but I have not had any problems dealing with them.
Select to expand quoteEC31 said..
I was with GIO for my boat. They advised me with 30 days notice before my renewal that they were no longer covering boats on swing moorings. That notice was on the 20th December. Makes it hard to get a survey done over Christmas and I was planning to be away for 3 weeks of that.
So I moved to Club Marine, who my sailing dinghy was already insured with. I also moved the car insurance, house insurance and business insurance away from GIO related companies. They did ring once to see why I was cancelling the policies, but didn't understand the connection.
I have had 2 claims with Club Marine, one for each boat. I pay extra for racing insurance, but that is to be expected. They are not the cheapest, but I have not had any problems dealing with them.
Some of these other insurance companies might be cheap and sound good when taking out insurance but when it comes claim time it is pretty hard to go past Club Marine and Nautilus Insurance.
I may just mention that I didn't go for QBE to get a cheaper policy. The premium was dramatically higher than my current premium with Nautilus, when compared to the amount insured. I was happy to pay extra for an older wooden boat given the higher risk, but not happy to have to pay again by being treated like this.
There's no way I'll insure our shiny 'glass boat, which recently passed survey with flying colours, through QBE. Nor will we insure the houses, the car or the cat and dinghies with them in our lifetime.
A friend is having a good experience with CM and our new boat is with Nautilus. The cat and dinghies will remain with GIO for the time being with everything else, because they were great with the Hobie claim last year - one of only two previous claims I have ever made.
Well, the period that QBE set themselves to answer complaints has now expired. So not only have I not had any official information from them since March, I also haven't had a response when I complained about not being contacted. Now I've complained to them that I haven't heard about my complaint about not hearing anything..... this is getting Kafkaesque
I've had to lodge a complaint with the Financial Services Ombudsman now.
I am happy with the NRMA.
They are good to deal with and there premiums were much better than Youi.
I am much more confident about making a claim with them than the bad experience I had with Youi.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..rumblefish said..
After recommending Pantanius to a few people, I won't be any more....
Racing yacht in WA, had rig inspection and was approved by insurer.
Not long after lost rig, made claim.
Insurer employed metallurgist to find fault with the rig and reject the claim
I'm with Pantaenius. First bad report that is more than anecdotal. I have heard on their claims after a few good ones.
I will contact them and enquire about this non payment of a claim. Can you tell me the boat name?
I have received my Pantaenius renewal, $900.28 for $65,000 Agreed Fixed Value.
I emailed them re the claim on the WA yacht Enterprise rig claim. Interesting to see if they elucidate or say it is subject to privacy laws or somesuch.
The renewal also raises whether the sum insured is still appropriate. Seaworthy ocean going S&S34s can probably be had for less than $65,000 so am I over insuring?
I could buy a basic boat for say $35,000 and fit it out/refit it for another $20,000. I suppose it isn't much difference.
Just paid for second year with Youi. Initial renewal notice had huge increase on premium, but rang and wound him down a lot then took higher excess ($1K), and got back nearly to last year's amount. Only need cover for the marina really, as would self-insure the Tophat 25 anyway. Good for total loss I suppose. Basically $500 for $20K .
In my opinion, there's no choice between the two... Go QBE! Here's why:
- I insured my boat with Youi when I had it at Airlie Beach. The premium for comprehensive insurance was $891 per year.
- I sailed it back to Sydney, and advised Youi of the change of mooring location. The premium jumped to $1,804. Apparently, Sydney harbour is classed as a 'high risk' area, whilst Whitsundays is not. Go figure...
- I allowed the Youi policy to lapse, and have recently insured with QBE. The premium is $602 per year - a significant difference!
In both cases, I chose to have a higher excess (ie $1,000) to reduce the premium amount. The insured value is the same. Also, QBE offer more inclusions - personal effects, etc. No survey was required.
I'd say Youi are OK if your boat is located in northern QLD - most insurers won't even consider insuring there. Otherwise, I'd give them a miss...
Select to expand quoterumblefish said..
After recommending Pantanius to a few people, I won't be any more....
Racing yacht in WA, had rig inspection and was approved by insurer.
Not long after lost rig, made claim.
Insurer employed metallurgist to find fault with the rig and reject the claim
I got a call from Pantaenius this morning and this is their story. He was happy for me to retell it.
Enterprise is a 2002 Farr 40 bought into WA from Asia. It was raced for some years and then sold to the owner who lost the rig and made the claim.
The rig was removed and inspected but not crack tested or xrayed and was reinstalled.
The report was provided to Pantaenius but the age of the rig was not declared and Pantaenius will not cover rigging over 10 years old. This is stated in their policy.
Pantaenius maintain the owner knew or should have known the age of the rig as he bought it off the person who imported the boat and it was clear on inspection and from the importer when Pantaenius contacted him the rig was original to the boat from build. The owner stated he couldn't contact the previous owner but Pantaenius are aware he bought sails from him just prior to the rig loss.
Pantaenius did not pay the claim as the owner did not fully declare the situation and they do not cover rigs over 10 years old.
I spent a significant sum on a rerig last year as mine was last done in early 2006 and I knew Pantaenius would not cover it for the Lord Howe trip if it was over 10 years old. They do make it very clear.
Two sides to every story.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
Two sides to every story.
Three sides according to our local police. This side, that side and the truth.
Select to expand quotecisco said..MorningBird said..
Two sides to every story.
Three sides according to our local police. This side, that side and the truth.
Too true. I can't help with that one. As it would be easy to prove the age of your rig I tend to believe the insurer might have a solid case. I doubt I'll ever know for sure!
Select to expand quoteSailPlan said..
In my opinion, there's no choice between the two... Go QBE! Here's why:
- I insured my boat with Youi when I had it at Airlie Beach. The premium for comprehensive insurance was $891 per year.
- I sailed it back to Sydney, and advised Youi of the change of mooring location. The premium jumped to $1,804. Apparently, Sydney harbour is classed as a 'high risk' area, whilst Whitsundays is not. Go figure...
- I allowed the Youi policy to lapse, and have recently insured with QBE. The premium is $602 per year - a significant difference!
In both cases, I chose to have a higher excess (ie $1,000) to reduce the premium amount. The insured value is the same. Also, QBE offer more inclusions - personal effects, etc. No survey was required.
I'd say Youi are OK if your boat is located in northern QLD - most insurers won't even consider insuring there. Otherwise, I'd give them a miss...
I was with QBE. I have just had to go back once more to the Financial Services Ombudsman. After taking several months to do basically nothing, they finally agreed to pay for all the damage to the boat after I took them to the FSO. To complete the claim within the FSO's required response time, we agreed that other ongoing costs would be negotiated later.
They then sent me a form for some of the claim, which stated that it was a full and final payment. Obviously I was not going to agree to that because it was agreed that we would come to a full and final figure later. So I contacted QBE to be told that the person who had to deal with it was on holidays....odd for such a large firm. When he got back we got into contact and he agreed to finalise the matter. That was weeks ago. Since then neither polite phone calls or polite emails have been answered.
To repeatedly ignore emails is bizarre behaviour from a large and supposedly professional company. I have now had to re-open the complaint with the FSO.
I've only ever had three insurance claims in my life, not one of them with QBE. They have been a complete and utter nightmare to deal with and appallingly unethical and unprofessional. Good luck if you want to make a claim with them!
I am really disappointed to hear your horror story with QBE.
It is the luck of the draw with insurance companies, as it seems to me, the horror stories are equally distributed within the industry.
Nevertheless, l am happy with the insurance I have with QBE at the moment.
I was expecting my old insurer ClubMarine to contact me after my insurance lapsed with them but that just didn't happen, Club Marine didn't care to do so.
Whatever the future brings, l hope l won't need them, ever, but if l must claim, l am going to pursue my rights with utmost vigour.
Ok so my local sailing club has a thing on their website that encourages members to consider going through Yachting NSW for insurance because "our club gets a rebate for every policy taken via this scheme! "
So of course I went to get a quote and see if I could help the club. Through a number of broken links on yachting NSW website I ended up here:
www.sailing.org.au/insurance/
And then here:
www.nautilusinsurance.com.au/cruiser-and-sailboat-application-form-0
I filled in the form and then get an email a day later saying Nautilius does not insure boat more than 10 years old on swing moorings!! Regardless of age, survey,
Why would Australian Sailing partner with someone who wont insure such a large share of the market?
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
The renewal also raises whether the sum insured is still appropriate. Seaworthy ocean going S&S34s can probably be had for less than $65,000 so am I over insuring?
I could buy a basic boat for say $35,000 and fit it out/refit it for another $20,000. I suppose it isn't much difference.
Overinsuring is good. If you lose your boat do you really want to spend months refitting another one? Or walk out and buy one better than what you had?
Just updating my Nautilus insurance at the moment, I pay an additional premium on top of the full comp insurance ($4500) to cover offshore racing .
Distance from shore : 250nm.
Total race distance :500nm.
Premium: $1000.
Excess : $5000 (that's admittedly the worst excess which is mast/rigging/sails, goes down to $500 for personal effects) Ouch.
Australian Sailing are asking Nautilus for an explanation. They weren't aware of the condition.
i am aready with Pantaenius but just shopping around. If I can get a better deal and help my club as well then it would be worth the paperwork.
I'm in the middle of a Debbie related claim now with Club Marine and would give them a 5 or 6 out 10. Service, follow up etc. has been good as has items covered all with the exception of cover for sails. Headsail was furled with additional 4 or 5 wraps of jib sheets around it but still came unfurled and shredded.
Should have been taken down before the storm but I was in Sydney and she was in Airlie. No insurance cover for the new headsail.
To be fair the Club Marine Policy wording is pretty clear on pages 19 and 20,
'We will not cover You for: Loss or Damage to sails caused by crew error, the wind, or water, unless Your Boat is stranded, sunk or in a collision or suffers mast or rigging failure'.
Always read the PDS I guess. Apparently I'll be fine if the sails are attacked by termites in future.
Select to expand quoteAgent nods said..
But you really to need read through each policy.
This was from a quote from Pantaenius:
"Single Handed Warranty - No single handed sailing allowed before dawn or after sunset."
So you go out for a single handed sail, intending to return before sunset - but a afternoon storm develops (as they do!).
So you take shelter till it passes, which means returning after sunset. You are now not covered if something happens.
But if you stupidly went out in the raging storm, so as to get home by dark you are!
Ha ha, yes I was comparing quotes from Club Marine and Pantaneous earlier this year, when I got to that clause I went to Club Marine in a heartbeat. Pantaneous are a bunch of idiots! I wonder if their policies in europe are the same, or is this somethling Australia specific?
