Comfortable seaworthy 25-30 foot yacht

Mac's can drive on and off. Don't need a tilt.

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slammin said..
Mac's can drive on and off. Don't need a tilt.

Yes, but can you easily get on and off the boat when it is floating, but still on the trailer. Not so easy for an old fogy. Car driver and skipper two up its a breeze. Ramps that I frequent are very busy and people do not take kindly to one leaving the car/trailer on the ramp while you buzz off to park the boat on the beach or pontoon.

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Chris 249 said..

Yara said..

MorningBird said..

keensailor said...
No, not that I know of.

Yara got me a bit concerned. My mate Havefun as a NS and I'm confident he wouldn't have a boat with a known defect.

The thing that worries me is that with old boats,with keel bolts cast into a cast iron keel, there is no simple non-destructive way of testing them. They could look good on the surface, but be corroded underneath. There is a method of removing the nuts and screwing a jack on and then stressing to the theoretical elastic limit. If it stretches then what? If they are bolts with access to both ends the situation is easier, but could still be a very expensive exercise.
I noted a technical paper where engineers developed an ultrasound test for buried bolts, but the technology is new and limited.

On the other hand, can anyone provide an instance where an old (say pre 1987) keel has fallen off? ISAF has a database of keel-loss incidents which shows the ridiculous toll that stupid modern high-aspect keels and poor design and building have taken - but I don't think there are any pre '87 boats that have lost keels without an enormous amount of other damage.

Obviously age is taking its toll, but when my keel bolts were pulled two years ago most of them were OK, and I know the cause of the issues with the ageing ones. Some older boats also had epoxy between the keel/floors/stub and the ballast, and in at least two cases I know of the epoxy alone was enough to hold the keel, rather to the dismay of the people trying to fit updated new keels.

That is re-assuring, but if you are sailing an old boat in heavy seas and your keel falls off, would you live to tell the tale?

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keensailor said..
these are the keel bolts on our 1984 NS27

For any yacht that has double row of keel bolts or staggered like these and look anywhere near as good condition as these, I would not be concerned about them and leave them alone.

If the keel bolts are just a single row I would be concerned and would consider removing the keel and reattaching with a double row of bolts.

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Yara said..

Chris 249 said..






On the other hand, can anyone provide an instance where an old (say pre 1987) keel has fallen off? ISAF has a database of keel-loss incidents which shows the ridiculous toll that stupid modern high-aspect keels and poor design and building have taken - but I don't think there are any pre '87 boats that have lost keels without an enormous amount of other damage.

Obviously age is taking its toll, but when my keel bolts were pulled two years ago most of them were OK, and I know the cause of the issues with the ageing ones. Some older boats also had epoxy between the keel/floors/stub and the ballast, and in at least two cases I know of the epoxy alone was enough to hold the keel, rather to the dismay of the people trying to fit updated new keels.

That is re-assuring, but if you are sailing an old boat in heavy seas and your keel falls off, would you live to tell the tale?

I'd have a comparatively good chance, actually - a wooden 28'er with an inboard is going to float high and you are less likely to be trapped down below or find it impossible to climb onto the hull and/or dive into the cabin to get the EPIRB out than in many boats.

But I don't really see the point. There were hundreds of half tonners built in Oz and the only one to lose a keel (as far as I know) was Planet X in 1989. She had a MME keel which is a very, very different kettle of fish to most of the earlier ones. I think I've got a pretty good handle on keel losses and half tonner losses; for example I know of the loss of S'fida (Ebbutt 30, off Darwin circa 1981), Copper Top (Viking 30, off WA, same time frame) and Newspaper Taxi (Whiting circa 1995, 3 Peaks Race), so it's unlikely that there are thousands of old bits of lead hitting the primaeval ooze full fathom five without it becoming known.

Add in all the old Endeavours, Compasses, Hoods whatever (and skating delicately around a beloved long-keel production 25 footer that has actually had at least one incident of major structural issues around the keel area....) and the record indicates that there are thousands of old boats with keels sticking firmly on. Bolts can last, as they do in the Harbour Bridge.

The issue is not that there is absolutely zero chance of an old keel falling off - it's basically unknown, but there is a chance. This issue is that as MB says, the chances are so mind-blowingly low (with proper maintenance, or perhaps even without it) that it's not anywhere near the top of a list of things to be concerned about. There are other risks that are miles higher that we should rationally spend our time on instead.*

Apparently the US Coast Guard says that only 26% of sailors who died were actually sailing at the time. Most of them fell off moored or docked boats - so within reason, spending time being aware of THAT hazard and working out ways to address that danger would be much more important than worrying about ageing keel bolts on a typical '60s-early '80s yacht.

Personally I'd be much more worried if I was one of the scarily high number of people who cannot swim well and cannot get back aboard their own boat unaided, even at a mooring. I had to pull a guy in that situation out of the drink a year or two back - in a fast-ebbing tide he was clinging to the mooring of a boat downstream and starting to struggle.

Please note - I'm one of the (probably) fairly small proportion of people who has actually had pros inspect and (where necessary) replace the keelbolts, so I'm not ignoring the issue. It's just a very low priority.


* S'fida, for example, cracked the hull around the P bracket when a rope went around the prop, and sank slowly.... damn inboards. Taxi failed around the rudder and I think I know why - I was on the other end of the nut when a previous owner was doing a bodgy patch job on the upper bearing beam. Copper Top went down slowly due to unknown hull damage. The lesson seems to be that a watertight bulkhead aft, perhaps even a partial one, may have saved them which is why I'm part-way through that job.

I was onboard a UFO that picked up the four crew from Copper Top. We had a crew of six so we ended up with 10 onboard.

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Toph said..
M26

i love mine cheers

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Donk107 said..
What about a Macgregor 26

Regards Don

stop taking the piss lmao

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Yara said..

stevetheadven said..

Toph said..
M26

i might have 1 for sale soon lol

Not a silly idea. The Mac 26 has the volume and will be a lot lower cost to own. Trips to Port Stephens or Lake Maquarie are safely and quickly done in any weather on the trailer. Only draw back I can see apart from the high capital cost, is that with a non-tilting trailer it needs two people to easily launch.

not hard to launch i do it single handed all the time . u a funny man lmao cheers

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rumblefish said..
We're starting to look at a boat like these too, only issue is my wife and I are both 6ft tall so finding a berth we both fit in is difficult. Would we fit in the V-Berth on the NS27?

I doubt it. My boats 30 foot but the V berth is about 5 feet long.

The trouble with V berths is, depending on which way you lie, you end up with either pointed toes or a pointed head.

I love open plan living, enslosed head, hot shower and a safe open cockpit, tiller, huuuuge scuppers.

Did you consider an Adams 28 Morningbid?
Rare as hen's teeth, but one of the better designed, built 28's ever made according to people in the know.
There is one for sale!

It is a support for the traveller bridge and a brilliant foot support to boot.

HG02 it was one of the major features_ the open un cluttered look below _ of the boat made me fall in love with it in a second. I love it even more, since.

As the occasion requires, l might perch on the seat or somewhere comfy according to wind and water.
Because l sail single handed most of the time l use the auto pilot a lot. After balancing the sails to my best knowledge l flick on the ST 2000 and l might be on the bow or up at the mast or below at the chart table while the auto pilot drives the boat. I do not race. It is pure fun, l am seeking enjoyment not glory.