Select to expand quoteSubculture said..dusta said..
The schools also don't do any education with their students as they themselves have NFI . They are all blowin instructors . The school owners have nfi what is going on down there . I've given up telling people to keep their kites over the water , not coming right into shore and doing a transition etc .
I couldn't agree more dusta.
I drove by one day recently and parked up to watch. Soul Kite instructors, (even wearing their T-shirts with the business name on the back!) were repeatedly riding and jumping exclusively inside the markers, right up to the beach. Kites over the footpath, you've seen it all before anyway dusta. BUT from a school who regularly teach down there, I thought how fkn short sighted and inconsiderate of them.. Make a quick buck this season with no thought to the future, or for anyone else. Nice advert guys, way to set an example!! BTW, was there a big scary shark outside the markers? You can't swim? Or was the 'chop' (lol) too big.. Pathetic.
Anyway, if that school ignores the guidelines set in place by WAKSA to keep the place open, how do they expect their many students (and everyone else watching) to have any respect for keeping the place accessible.
Before any smartass bleats "why didn't you say anything"? I wasn't kiting, I gave up kiting there a long time ago. I've spent years down there, educating the ones who pleaded ignorance & asking the others with egos bigger than their kites to do the right thing.. If I'd got the f off reply or disrespect that particular day, I'd probably be up on an assault charge.
Yes the writing's on the wall, and it's only the regular crew down there who can blame themselves when the privilege has gone. Educate, police it, or lose it.
There's too many of us older crew are past caring now.
... just a thought, if you didn't know of the existence of this website, or much about WAKSA, how would you know the "rules" down there re markers etc??
Obviously you could ask someone, but what if they don't know either.
Could a sign outlining the rules have helped here?? E.g. Rules for kitesurfing this area 1. Do not hold kite over road 2. Do not kite inside yellow marker 3. etc ....
A definitive sign could help be referred to when a more experienced kiter is giving some guidance to the less experienced or ignorant, and hopefully help with settling any arguments etc.
Sounds like it is all too late now, but has there ever been any discusion of designing and erecting an appropriate sign?
I would have guessed the council would have liked that idea, and it would show that kiters care about safety etc. It sounds like issues have been brewing for a while now, and there has been no talk of any proactive communication with the council in an attempt to resolve the issues that were obviously being documented by the Ranger.
I personally don't kite there so don't really care to be honest, but it were my spot I would have been onto this. Having said that if this joint gets banned, it might set something of a precedent for other councils that kiting can be banned.
Imagine if a meeting was organised by some of the crew that kite there and give a toss, and then some communication with the council was arranged. Probably all too much hassle I spose.
you could probably have found the same text in a similar post annually since about 2007, and copied and pasted it to save time in writing your response above marno.
someone from waksa might be bothered noting down all the efforts made negotiating with council from around then to keep it open ,and any reasons given why a sign isn't up (probably aesthetics and the hard word of the residents with the views of the river), but they are probably fatigued of it all by now as well. 
Select to expand quotemarno said..
Subculture said..
dusta said..
The schools also don't do any education with their students as they themselves have NFI . They are all blowin instructors . The school owners have nfi what is going on down there . I've given up telling people to keep their kites over the water , not coming right into shore and doing a transition etc .
I couldn't agree more dusta.
I drove by one day recently and parked up to watch. Soul Kite instructors, (even wearing their T-shirts with the business name on the back!) were repeatedly riding and jumping exclusively inside the markers, right up to the beach. Kites over the footpath, you've seen it all before anyway dusta. BUT from a school who regularly teach down there, I thought how fkn short sighted and inconsiderate of them.. Make a quick buck this season with no thought to the future, or for anyone else. Nice advert guys, way to set an example!! BTW, was there a big scary shark outside the markers? You can't swim? Or was the 'chop' (lol) too big.. Pathetic.
Anyway, if that school ignores the guidelines set in place by WAKSA to keep the place open, how do they expect their many students (and everyone else watching) to have any respect for keeping the place accessible.
Before any smartass bleats "why didn't you say anything"? I wasn't kiting, I gave up kiting there a long time ago. I've spent years down there, educating the ones who pleaded ignorance & asking the others with egos bigger than their kites to do the right thing.. If I'd got the f off reply or disrespect that particular day, I'd probably be up on an assault charge.
Yes the writing's on the wall, and it's only the regular crew down there who can blame themselves when the privilege has gone. Educate, police it, or lose it.
There's too many of us older crew are past caring now.
... just a thought, if you didn't know of the existence of this website, or much about WAKSA, how would you know the "rules" down there re markers etc??
Obviously you could ask someone, but what if they don't know either.
Could a sign outlining the rules have helped here?? E.g. Rules for kitesurfing this area 1. Do not hold kite over road 2. Do not kite inside yellow marker 3. etc ....
A definitive sign could help be referred to when a more experienced kiter is giving some guidance to the less experienced or ignorant, and hopefully help with settling any arguments etc.
Sounds like it is all too late now, but has there ever been any discusion of designing and erecting an appropriate sign?
I would have guessed the council would have liked that idea, and it would show that kiters care about safety etc. It sounds like issues have been brewing for a while now, and there has been no talk of any proactive communication with the council in an attempt to resolve the issues that were obviously being documented by the Ranger.
I personally don't kite there so don't really care to be honest, but it were my spot I would have been onto this. Having said that if this joint gets banned, it might set something of a precedent for other councils that kiting can be banned.
Imagine if a meeting was organised by some of the crew that kite there and give a toss, and then some communication with the council was arranged. Probably all too much hassle I spose.
just like you said how would subculture know , how do you know that waksa hasn't already been in discussion over the years with the council on a sign like at safety bay or pelican point ?
The council doesn't like the idea of a sign there, it's been proposed many times over the years .
At the end of the day WAKSA can only speak on behalf of its members , it cannot vote on a decision and WAKSA vs ratepayers along melville beach road well i think you can guess who is going to win out of that battle .
@ marno & mazdon
Yes, there's been a Melville ban thread on SB every year that I've been kiting. It's all down to the don't give a fck types unfortunately.. Any considerate, decent type of person capable of rational thought (and therein lays the problem..) would educate themselves via WAKSA, local forum, or by simply asking on the beach what the local etiquette was..
Re signage, dusta will know more but as best as I can remember, there was rumour of council not allowing one. Yes, it would have been a great thing if it had happened. However, I guess at some level in today's world of lawsuits, putting one up may open a council to legal action in the event of some damages claim. Who knows, I'm no lawyer..
Anyway, with the sign and local residents, one wouldn't want to spoil ones million dollar view would one.. Also, those dreadful, nasty, noisy, smelly, smokey kites ruin the peace and tranquility of one's slice of paradise 
Edit - You posted while I was composing dusta 
While I'm at it, agreed on Safety Bay & Pelican signage. There's too many new to the sport who don't realise the hard work done in the past by WAKSA - that can be ruined in the shortest time by selfish idiots.
mazdon and marno you seem passionate enough , you are more than welcome to come down to the agm and volunteer some of your time to help waksa . As it might be your local next .
Living a couple of roads back from Melville I’d occasionally kite there but nowadays I’d rather drive 30 minutes to the coast for stronger, cleaner wind and in search of waves.
Yes the signage would make sense and has been suggested for many years but that’s a head against a brick wall.
I had a run in with the Soul Kite manager last season after raising the fact the instructors were show ponying inside the yellow markers or more a case of over the beach. He started to go on about other people inside the markers and learners upwind of the gumtree! I told him if he couldn’t run the school more responsible he deserved to lose the licence to teach in that area. I thought about blabbing on Seabreeze at the time but didn’t bother. By the sounds of it, it’s time to kick Soul Kite out and get a school that is interested in preserving or improving the fragile state of kiting at Melville.
Suggestions for (new) kite school
- Set an example as to areas you can and can’t kite.
- Inform and educate kiters who are not following Melville guidelines.
- Pro-active in maintaining area ie keep paths clear and pick up rubbish in slack time (this would go down well with local non-kiters).
melinfo@melville.wa.gov.au
is the email to send your gripes to..
No use complaining on a forum as obviously mr soul kite and the seabreeze kite school don't give a toss.
Write a succinct email with what your seeing/experiencing and then they will act on it.
I had my first kite lessons with Soul Kite about a year ago and can maybe provide some insight.2 out the 3 lessons I had were at Melville (1 at Pt Walter). While they did teach us the principles of kiting very well,
they didn't tell us what the buoys meant, and that the area was in danger of getting shut down. My
instructor said it was an "ideal place to learn" so of course, myself and many others chose to learn there. A year later I still kite
there, and hope it stays open. I don't think Soul Kite can be purely blamed for the poor etiquette and disregard to the rules
as it really is a lack of common sense that most of these issues have come from.
Damanic,
Yes soul kite cannot be purely blamed for the poor etiquette and disregard for the rules but they can be blamed for not following them. They have a duty to follow the rules, and if there are unsure they should have found out about the rules.
Common sense may be missing but the bigger issue is respect and doing the right thing. They should, as a school, lead by example.
Too many people just don't give a flying f**k, to many people are ignorant - they spoil it for all.
regardless of how competent the schools are. They should practice and preach the local rules. Not piss on them.. The licence to operate is a privilege not a right. I'm guessing the swan river trust and Melville can revoke the licence if they misbehave..
Despite the morons, cr@p wind, cobblers and noobs. Loosing access will only shift the schools and crowds somewhere else.
Agree'd, the schools have a moral obligation to ensure that kiting at Melville is preformed in accordance to WAKSA's guidelines, but is there any legal obligation? Since the council approves permits for kite schools to operate at Melville, are there any conditions as part of the permit that ensure the school is teaching students guidelines set by either the council or WAKSA's? AND why aren't the schools doing more to enforce the guidelines on others?
One solution I see on the cards is for the council to make Melville a AKSA/WAKSA member only kiting beach like Cottesloe (probably hard to police though). As a AKSA/WAKSA member a rider has a responsibility to follow local guidelines and standards set by the association... Then there's the added bonus of having public liability insurance through the AKSA/WAKSA membership, which could mean some peace of mind for residents.
Are there any guidelines or rules set by the council to kiters at Melville? - Had a look on the council website and wasn't able to find any.
Who has responsibility for ensuring these WAKSA/Council guidelines are upheld? There's no doubt that we take responsibility for our own safety when kiting, but what about the responsibility of others peoples safety? If you see someone doing something stupid that is going to endanger the someone, property or the reputation of the sport are you going to say something to them or just look the other way because your worried about creating a scene or conflict? You can always see what someone is truly committed to by their actions.
*Disclaimer* - I do work for a safety organisation - But for me safety is around culture, relationship and communication. Your more likely to put a mate straight if he's been out of line than a complete stranger. Why? because its easy as you already have a relationship with him, which mean ease of communication. A sign with the guidelines will only tell rider what they need to know, but other kiters should be holding other kiters to account if they are riding outside of those guidelines... and this needs to come from the more experienced riders... think Jedi Master/Padawan.
Schools have the basic responsibility to train each and every student to become safe, responsible and independent. Needless to say most are failing at this...
We happily share our training methodology with other schools during meetings and such, but it doesn't seem to have any influence.
Amongst other things, the very first topic we discuss with each student in their first 2 minutes of their first lesson (we also email them this information) is this:
1- Kiteboarding regulations
Kiteboarding is a regulated sport which means that you are only allowed to kite in certain designated areas. Every kiteboarding location has its own set of rules, pros and cons, dangers, obstacles etc. Some locations are more suitable for beginners and others for advanced riders only. It is your responsibility to gather this information and fully assess each location where you plan to kite either by asking local kiters and/or looking for official information Online. Kiteboarding location guides for Perth are available here: www.waksa.org.au/locations/ , and here www.seabreeze.com.au/Articles/Kitesurfing/Where-to-kitesurf-in-Western-Australia-official_4992834.aspx
It's so simple, yet so important. Hard to understand how schools can skip such basic information...
Christian
Select to expand quotedusta said..
mazdon and marno you seem passionate enough , you are more than welcome to come down to the agm and volunteer some of your time to help waksa . As it might be your local next .
yeah i've thought about it but i work away alot, and not sure what contribution i could make consistently in all honesty. my other problem is i don't like to consider myself a kiter like alot of the people that take up the sport, and therefore don't identify with this constant need to be around other kiters, talk kiting, and promote kiting - i just seem to use a kite a lot in the ocean either by myself or with a few mates, and trawl seabreeze as a procrastination/distraction tool incessantly haha
by the way, my post was trying to point out that waksa volunteers have already spent countless hours on this issue and therefore people pointing out the obvious re: signage on this forum (sorry marno, i probably shouldn't throw stones in glass houses either), doesn't really help and calls into question the work already done. i'd be pretty annoyed if i had been a waksa volunteer from the past reading that, but again, would be a bit tired of regurgitating the things done in the past and defending the organisation over and over.
Select to expand quotemazdon said..dusta said..
mazdon and marno you seem passionate enough , you are more than welcome to come down to the agm and volunteer some of your time to help waksa . As it might be your local next .
yeah i've thought about it but i work away alot, and not sure what contribution i could make consistently in all honesty. my other problem is i don't like to consider myself a kiter like alot of the people that take up the sport, and therefore don't identify with this constant need to be around other kiters, talk kiting, and promote kiting - i just seem to use a kite a lot in the ocean either by myself or with a few mates, and trawl seabreeze as a procrastination/distraction tool incessantly haha
by the way, my post was trying to point out that waksa volunteers have already spent countless hours on this issue and therefore people pointing out the obvious re: signage on this forum (sorry marno, i probably shouldn't throw stones in glass houses either), doesn't really help and calls into question the work already done. i'd be pretty annoyed if i had been a waksa volunteer from the past reading that, but again, would be a bit tired of regurgitating the things done in the past and defending the organisation over and over.
there are fifo workers on the committee . Alot of correspondence is via email . Just because you kite on your own doesn't mean you can't do anything for the sport
Select to expand quotedusta said..mazdon said..dusta said..
mazdon and marno you seem passionate enough , you are more than welcome to come down to the agm and volunteer some of your time to help waksa . As it might be your local next .
yeah i've thought about it but i work away alot, and not sure what contribution i could make consistently in all honesty. my other problem is i don't like to consider myself a kiter like alot of the people that take up the sport, and therefore don't identify with this constant need to be around other kiters, talk kiting, and promote kiting - i just seem to use a kite a lot in the ocean either by myself or with a few mates, and trawl seabreeze as a procrastination/distraction tool incessantly haha
by the way, my post was trying to point out that waksa volunteers have already spent countless hours on this issue and therefore people pointing out the obvious re: signage on this forum (sorry marno, i probably shouldn't throw stones in glass houses either), doesn't really help and calls into question the work already done. i'd be pretty annoyed if i had been a waksa volunteer from the past reading that, but again, would be a bit tired of regurgitating the things done in the past and defending the organisation over and over.
there are fifo workers on the committee . Alot of correspondence is via email . Just because you kite on your own doesn't mean you can't do anything for the sport
for me it is a past time / enjoyable activity, not a sport. and my interest in it has no element of seeing it progress to be some kind of fully fledged sporting endeavour be it in racing, waves or freestyle. i know one could argue the pros and cons of progression til you are blue in the face if so inclined, but not today. maybe another time or thread...
lets see what happens this week/weekend,maybe theres been enough on here to make something happen,mmmmm or not!
The only way that this whole Melville issue will be resolved is if you put it down in an email stating the issues and concerns then send it to the Melville council email address I advised in my post above.
RPM
The last thing we should do is air our dirty laundry to the council. The council have the power to ban Kiting there. The thing that will be the final nail in the coffin will be kiters joining in with the hundreds of calls and letters complaining about kiting in the area I'm sure they get from local residents.
Even if they don't ban it, what are they going to do about it? Have a ranger policing the shore every windy afternoon?
Us kiters need to self police ourselves through constant vigilance in helping out learners and spreading the unwritten rules of kiting in the area. We don't need to be overbearing arseholes to each other, just friendly chats with guys who are obviously new to the sport.
i think what you guys are not understanding is the council cannot ban kiting as such . They can do things such as making melville beach road no parking or issue resident parking permits and enforce a no parking if your not a resident . They cannot touch you on the water as that is not under their control . Either way they can make it extremly difficult .
Sure they can ban it. Same as Cot can ban surfboards in summer on main beach. or ban dog walking without a lead. They can issue on the spot fines.
City of Melville do not manage the foreshore of the River. This is done by the Swan River Trust.
Melville provide comment to SRT on applications, questions etc.
Although they cant ban, they can make life difficult (within their jurisdiction - parking etc) or recommend a banning to SRT
Cottesloe and other Ocean front councils have built policies and are responsible for their own foreshore management.
And there is the possibly that all the councils will be more actively involved/responsible for their foreshore management in the near future
The SRT manage the river and forehore from an environmental juristriction.
Local issues of this nature and enforcement of them still fall under local councils. Just like dogs.
Haha I don't kite there if I don't have too, but coincidently I was there last night with a mate who's learning. Made my way through the wall of leaner kites with their kites at 12, and played outside. Good fun. I rescued one guys board for him. Helped a few on the beach.
Its just a place to learn. People will continue to stuff up there while they learn. Hopefully it doesnt get us banned.
I know I'm only new to the game but those guys at Sk are there for one thing only to make a quick buck. so many times I se them teach in under 10 kts,basicly with the kite lying in the water for an hour yet other schools refuse to teach in those conditions u learn absoluty nothing, at least your a zero to hero in 5 hours!!
Saw a kite get tangled with another on the beach today and then wrap itself around a tree and finally bump into a car. Really.
yep,two kites in trees on Saturday,should have seen the guys face of shame.Also a 7.5m Best kite has sadly passed away,saw some good times over its 8 yr life,RIP.
My mate is learning and went to Melville on Saturday.. He took this photo and sent it to me..
My bad on the flipped photo.. ****** iPhones
