Flysurfer Sonic 18m or 15m for light wind and TT ?

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Kamikuza said..

MaxVMGRacing said..

flirferler said..

I can't find much feedback about the Chrono V2 then is there big changes with it ?
Cheers

Chrono V2 was only launched 2 weeks ago, the first orders only starting to arrive to customers now.
Very big changes. New shape, new cell count, new design features, new bridle.

So, they would have been v1 then. Well, they got plenty of scope for improvement.

With some fairness, the registration cycles and limitation that IKA had imposed to allow/deny brand's kites being used at racing events did not help.
It stopped more brands bringing foils sooner to market the previous season, ( since no racers could race them so why buy them) and forced brands to launch models that might not have been as refined as they wished. Once your design was registered it was locked down.

The previous racing season only Elf had a foil race kite ready and registered.... Ozone managed to get a Chnro V1 in just in time. Had they not... the whole race scene for the entire year would have exlcusively just Elf kites at the top end. Looking at of any of the photos from that season, Ozone chrono, Elf and North ( a rebranded Elf).... nothing else. Ozone had to get a kite to market for that equipoment registration cycle to a deaddline that wasnt their own or risk no market share for a whole year.

Now that more racing is mostlly outside of the IKA restriction this is no longer as much of an issue. also everybody has now had more time to evolve.

As with the the hydrofoils, all the 2nd and 3rd gen versions of the Ramair kites will be a big improvement. That'll be common to all the brands not just Ozone. More competeing brands and designs will also help with refinements and innovations as it did with the hydrofoils.

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MaxVMGRacing said..

Kamikuza said..

MaxVMGRacing said..

flirferler said..

I can't find much feedback about the Chrono V2 then is there big changes with it ?
Cheers

Chrono V2 was only launched 2 weeks ago, the first orders only starting to arrive to customers now.
Very big changes. New shape, new cell count, new design features, new bridle.

So, they would have been v1 then. Well, they got plenty of scope for improvement.

With some fairness, the registration cycles and limitation that IKA had imposed to allow/deny brand's kites being used at racing events did not help.
It stopped more brands bringing foils sooner to market the previous season, ( since no racers could race them so why buy them) and forced brands to launch models that might not have been as refined as they wished. Once your design was registered it was locked down.

The previous racing season only Elf had a foil race kite ready and registered.... Ozone managed to get a Chnro V1 in just in time. Had they not... the whole race scene for the entire year would have exlcusively just Elf kites at the top end. Looking at of any of the photos from that season, Ozone chrono, Elf and North ( a rebranded Elf).... nothing else. Ozone had to get a kite to market for that equipoment registration cycle to a deaddline that wasnt their own or risk no market share for a whole year.

Now that more racing is mostlly outside of the IKA restriction this is no longer as much of an issue. also everybody has now had more time to evolve.

As with the the hydrofoils, all the 2nd and 3rd gen versions of the Ramair kites will be a big improvement. That'll be common to all the brands not just Ozone. More competeing brands and designs will also help with refinements and innovations as it did with the hydrofoils.

What do you imply by "As with the the hydrofoils, all the 2nd and 3rd gen versions of the Ramair kites will be a big improvement. That'll be common to all the brands not just Ozone. More competeing brands and designs will also help with refinements and innovations as it did with the hydrofoil".

My understanding is that Ram Air are available on the market for quite long time with relatively good performance.

For those who've ridden the Chrono2, I'd be very interested in a more detailed review, perhaps in a new thread.

Wow how did I miss this thread ! I'm sitting in the Belgrade airport returning after a week in Montenegro (former Yugoslavia) with Flysurfer riding all the new prototype foils and LEIs that will come to market in due course.

Spending time face to face with the developers was hugely beneficial. We looked at current and new airfoils and construction in detail, and discussed why Flysurfer build their kites the way they do ( you all know I'm the WA rep right ??)

I'll write a proper review in due course, but to quickly cover a few points raised in this thread.

FS dont use mesh over the intake vents as they freeze over in cold (think sub zero) snow kiting conditions. We are discussing some kind of protection for the sand as a way to stop sand blowing in when parked. But, that's why FS also have a drainage system that allows sand to move to the wing tips and then exit the kite when flying. I believe we are the only one doing this. This system also lets water drain quicker too.

The mixer allows you to trim in/out certain characteristics on demand. It also allows you to restore your kite back to optimal flying after months / years of use. Fair to say all kites fly well when brand new, but our mixer lets us maintain our performance easily and simply over time. No cutting and modifying bridles needed (yes racers do this)

The mixer also a customer to introduce certain characteristics for certain courses - for example a course with a lot of downwind we can simply increase the camber of the kite so it can sit deeper and performs better downwind (this is what Diablo does with its new system) or we can flatten the kite to maximise upwind performance. All this can be done in seconds on the beach, at the time. The mixer doesn't create more need to tune the kite - all bridles across all brands are going to change over time, but we provide the customer a really easy way to maintain the original performance over time.

LCL's are short connection lines that sit between the canopy and people. This means if you need to replace a line, you can simple undo that one line from the kite and not have to open the whole bridle.

The Flysurfer philosophy is to build high performance kites but also kites that are friendly to use and maintain. The German build quality and attention to detail is evident in all details and stitching - everything has a reason.


For the OP - don't be afraid of the Sonic 18 in terms of its size - it's got massive wind range and most of us at the conference were comfortable using it in up to 18-20 kts. One thing tho, I'd say the 15 seems to jump higher - not longer hang time- but as it turns quicker you'll get more lift. Maybe that is of relevance to you ?


Anyway, I can promise lots of great kites coming from Flysurfer both in the LEI and soft kite range. My flight is being called - will give you the download from the conference in due course.

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Plummet said....

No mixer means less adjustment is needed. I like the fs mixer.... But you need to adjust the kite way more because of it.

Covered vents reduce sand intake. When i tested chrono/speed 4 back to back the chrono inflated as fast if not faster.


Terrible tip tucks and tangles? Don't be so damn ham fisted flying the kite.....

Did you fly the Sonic and the Chrono back to back?


It's funny saying the Ozone have a lot of catching up to do...... How many world championships has flysurfer won? It's flysurfer that's doing the catching up.

That's backwards, dude. I can hear you saying, "these damned tyres; I wouldn't have to keep putting air in them, if air couldn't be put in them. So, solid rubber tyres are better." You adjust it because you can adjust it... and like fiddling. I know you

I call BS on that. That mesh may stop twigs and small children getting into the vents, but sand gets in just fine. I forgot to look; are there dirt-outs?
Once it was in the air? Did you prefill? The other problem with the (supposedly) faster inflating Chrondo was it deflated almost instantly when back on the ground. The Sonic took longer than my Speeds to inflate too...

Yeah, that may be it, too but I was also commenting on all the other users that have them now. Everyone was used both says the Sonic is easier, and on race day the only kites still flying were Sonics.

Not on the same day, no. The Chrondo has easier access to low-end than my Speeds, but wasn't as easy to use and I doubt it'd be fun near its top end. Like my Speed2, without the triple depower...

Win on Sunday, sell on Monday, eh? Why aren't you using Elf then? I was talking about the overall package, fit and finish, not results PMU.

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MaxVMGRacing said..

Kamikuza said..

MaxVMGRacing said..

With some fairness, the registration cycles and limitation that IKA had imposed to allow/deny brand's kites being used at racing events did not help.
It stopped more brands bringing foils sooner to market the previous season, ( since no racers could race them so why buy them) and forced brands to launch models that might not have been as refined as they wished. Once your design was registered it was locked down.

The previous racing season only Elf had a foil race kite ready and registered.... Ozone managed to get a Chnro V1 in just in time. Had they not... the whole race scene for the entire year would have exlcusively just Elf kites at the top end. Looking at of any of the photos from that season, Ozone chrono, Elf and North ( a rebranded Elf).... nothing else. Ozone had to get a kite to market for that equipoment registration cycle to a deaddline that wasnt their own or risk no market share for a whole year.

Now that more racing is mostlly outside of the IKA restriction this is no longer as much of an issue. also everybody has now had more time to evolve.

As with the the hydrofoils, all the 2nd and 3rd gen versions of the Ramair kites will be a big improvement. That'll be common to all the brands not just Ozone. More competeing brands and designs will also help with refinements and innovations as it did with the hydrofoils.

... are you saying, Ozone rushed a kite to market that may not have been ready?

FS been at this for a while; the Sonic may be gen one but this isn't their first rodeo.

I see what you did there :) I have no idea or insight other that whats public knowlegde, IMO Ozone got a race ready kite to market so it could be IKA registered, to be used by advanced riders to win races

So it's not for the weekend warrior, average bloke then?

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Kamikuza said..


Not on the same day, no. The Chrondo has easier access to low-end than my Speeds, but wasn't as easy to use and I doubt it'd be fun near its top end. Like my Speed2, without the triple depower...

No the Chrono isn't as easy as the speeds. Its not ment to be. Neither will the sonic. They are race kites build for performance not comfort.

The top end of the chrono is indeed very exciting. I have been considerably higher boosting on the 12m chrono than I ever managed on my 15m speed 3 and yes before you ask in the same winds.

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geordieboy said..

flirferler said..
Hello All,


I travel around 15/20 times a year by plane to kitesurf.

sounds like you got enough dough to take all your gear MR MONEYBAGS

In Europe you can fly internationally for $40 each way or less.

One time the absolute cheapest way from me to get from Southern France to Paris was to fly Pau to London, then London to Paris.

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Loftywinds said..
A bit off topic, but last weekend Marvin from InTheLoop took out his FS Sonic 11m in 19 to 22knot winds thinking that it would handle it ok. Well it did, but man he was lofted to huge heights well above 10m at least! Unfortunately one of the lines snapped after a couple of jumps and he had to call it a day retrieving the kite from the mangroves. But my point is the FS race kites are phenomenal when it comes to boosting, jumps and big airs, and for an 11m kite to pull that hard was incredible. Thank goodness Marvs didn't go out in a 12 or 15m FS.

Incidentally, Flo (another local from InTheLoop) was out on a 9m FS Boost LEI. He was lit! Did some mega loops easily, some big jumps and smooth landings. Out of all LEI's I've seen, the FS Boost is living up to its name for sure.

I prefer a Chrono personally. Easier to manouver and just as boosty and floaty. FS Speed 4, etc are a bit over priced for the same thing.

Lofty ask marv to get a demo Chrono V2 in to try, i had an 11m out on Saturday in 16-22 building to 18-26 riding a foil.... insane conditions but kite was well behaved, even tho lit like a christmas tree!!! Pulls like a truck but look away and you'd be mistaken for thinking and feeling there is a LEI at the end of your lines. Every person that has tested on the weekend said the same.... feels like an inflatable to fly, for the everyday punter i think thats a good thing!

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Loftywinds said..

I prefer a Chrono personally. Easier to manouver and just as boosty and floaty. FS Speed 4, etc are a bit over priced for the same thing.

... and there it is.

You haven't flown the Sonic or Speed4s either, have you? Or a Chrono?

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Kamikuza said..

Loftywinds said..

I prefer a Chrono personally. Easier to manouver and just as boosty and floaty. FS Speed 4, etc are a bit over priced for the same thing.

... and there it is.

You haven't flown the Sonic or Speed4s either, have you? Or a Chrono?

I never said I'd flown a Sonic or a Speed4. Chrono 12m, yes I have. Plenty of witnesses incl Marvin who can vouch for that.

Speaking of which, what about you Kami? Where is proof of anything you even kite surf!?

he still sells ozone foil kites

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eppo said..

Loftywinds said..
A bit off topic, but last weekend Marvin from InTheLoop took out his FS Sonic 11m in 19 to 22knot winds thinking that it would handle it ok. Well it did, but man he was lofted to huge heights well above 10m at least! Unfortunately one of the lines snapped after a couple of jumps and he had to call it a day retrieving the kite from the mangroves. But my point is the FS race kites are phenomenal when it comes to boosting, jumps and big airs, and for an 11m kite to pull that hard was incredible. Thank goodness Marvs didn't go out in a 12 or 15m FS.

Incidentally, Flo (another local from InTheLoop) was out on a 9m FS Boost LEI. He was lit! Did some mega loops easily, some big jumps and smooth landings. Out of all LEI's I've seen, the FS Boost is living up to its name for sure.

I prefer a Chrono personally. Easier to manouver and just as boosty and floaty. FS Speed 4, etc are a bit over priced for the same thing.

So you 'prefer' the Chrono personally against the other kites mentioned yet you haven't flown them personally and your other comparison of the chrono's superiority is against a zephyr in marginal conditions...yeh no sh$t.

Relax Epps. I am only putting out an opinion on the Chrono against, well lets' just say the Speed3, HQ Neo III, Montana V and Elf Joker5. I have tried them all, and my 15m LEI kites.
Chrono is the only Ozone kite I froth over, but gee if I had the cash I would get. FS Speed4 lotus any day.

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eppo said..
Yeh I like to try the sonic and the new chrono actually. Foil resurgence happening!

One thing I noticed being different than most LEIs is the turning ability of a foil is "slower" than a LEI. The Chrono turns on a dime, but compared to my 12m C4, the C4 turns even quicker And that's a 2011 model! I think ram air kites simply have to push through the wind a lot more than other kites simply because they are constantly letting air in and out all the time. Whereas with LEI kites, obviously the air is pumped and held in there.
the way I've over come this slowness feel of foil kites is by using a wider bar 55cm at least.

my 11m sonic is just as nimble as my 11 edge but pulls a ****ton more than the edge .