I don't think cost of equipment has ever been the problem, nor will it ever be. If the big brands all increase tech and costs, it just opens up room for smaller brands to start up serving that end of the market.
I think the sport can become stale if you don't change it up from time to time, so it's good to keep an open mind to the various changes and options it throws up along the way.
I also think the sport is very reasonably priced for the fun and value you can get from it, especially if you buy wisely. It's not a cheap sport, but it's not super expensive either.
Cost ain't the issue. IMHO
DM
Kitesurfing is headed for harder times and so are many sporting recreational activities.
The younger generation are not interested in fringe sports or commitment. They are interested in tech, self promotion, indulgence and instant gratification with the least amount of effort and money required.
Based on my occasional brouse through the forums of late I've come to the conclusion causehecan is just stiring **** for giggles.
But there seem to be an awful lot of people taking the hook and running with it. Am i missing something here?
Cost ... what were we paying back in say 2002 for a kite. I can't quite remember but it was close to maybe 1500 odd for an airush lift dazza ?? Might have even been 2k. Please confirm.
So given inflation I'm not so sure it is "too expensive ". Economies of scale are well and truly set in place. But it didn't matter, we beg borrowed and went without (well I did anyway) to get on the water.
Go and look at an electric mountain bike or any decent high end bike. What about a jet ski ? What does one of your paraglider thingies cost caushecan by the way, can't be cheap. Bro just bought a fishing boat that would pay for my kiting needs for the next 5-7 years!! And it wasn't an expensive one either.
Its not expensive comparatively.
On another note causehecan does make posts posts interesting to read. I'm all for his zany comments really lol.
Headed same place as windsurfing - niche activity for middle-aged dudes (and 5-10% ladies) with the occasional grommet having the external encouragement, internal motivation, and the resources to give it a crack. Hopefully the market sorts out the decent manufacturers and retailers from the lousy ones, and those with the passion and skill to offer good products and service will survive.
I'm absolutely selfish in liking to kite solo or with a few others who can respect the space and share some stoke. On this front I'm not concerned about flatlining or gradually dwindling numbers.
However, if this is part of a trend across society to less outdoor, physical, challenging activity, then we're all going to suffer. Even at the simple level of our tax dollars and medical systems, if obesity keeps going up and self-esteem keeps going down, there will be more people unable to work and requiring resources to deal with their physical and mental health issues, and fewer people working to keep it all going.
End of the day, can not put a price on a great kite session with mates and even better having your kids enjoy the same and watching them grow into the sport.
Like any sport the future is in encouraging the youth and providing them with opportunities to socialise and kite together, whether it be in competitions or organised activities. Kite companies need to embrace this and develop gear to suit.
Select to expand quoteamirite said..ActionSportsWA said..
I don't think cost of equipment has ever been the problem
says the salesman
No one says you have to buy top of the line anything, least of all me. We have brand new 9m North kites for under $1000 with a superseded bar, and a second hand board you can be styling on late model new or near new gear for under $2k.
Its not the cost, a sport reaches a maximum growth and ceases to continue to expand, perhaps there just aren't enough adventurous people, perhaps it's shark activity, perhaps it's the apathy of gen Y, perhaps parents are both working so hard to pay a mortgage on a house which precludes them from the time and perhaps the money, but I suggest more the time to take little dazza or little shazza to the beach everyday.
Perhaos its the negative moaners having an effect on the interested masses. IDFK, but I strongly doubt it is cost. When a late model kite can last 6 or 7 seasons? TT's last forever now they no longer break.
What does it cost per session over over the life of a kite? I'm betting less than the cost of a cup of coffee.
Carry on ??
DM
Oh WOW... bring out the popcorn...you gotta love it.
One dumb arse troll states that kiting will cripple all kids who participate and it is on for young and old.
I would just like to say, "Thankyou", for providing me with a little light entertainment for the evening as there was nothing on tv 
Now I have only been to a couple of third world countries and they where areas where kiting was regularly practiced by tourists. I have never seen a local kid in a crippling state due to kiting to young.
Unfortunately a huge manufacturing f#$# up means that many kite bladders now, especially in hot locations are delaminating so that kites are not actually lasting that long.
I know a few younger riders that gave up due to cost.
When a young outgoing person walks into a kite store these days they usually show interest until they see the price tag.
With companies like Duotone trying to target the younger market with youth targeted wakesyle equipment $1290 boards no bindings, $690 bindings and $8000 3 kite quivers it is simply going to fail - well it already has hasn't it.
Tried to go more complex, more margin, more specialised and failed by pretty much by killing off its own future market.
When competing in a sport depends on your wealth also to maintain competitive equipment when it really doesnt have to be that way (kiteboarding offers so much performance on entry kit - but it is never marketed like that for obvious reasons) it is also a fail IMO
I think equipment like foils seen around today actually puts new younger riders off the sport, like the opposite of what happened like 10-12 years ago when things started taking off and everyone was flying around busting out moves and progression was happening.
I would be good if kiteboarding could be ever so slightly more like something like skateboarding - 30 years of pretty much the same equipment where people are more concerned about the riding, not the gear. All talk though, I expect my hipster kite brand would fail anyway.
Select to expand quotecausehecan said..
Go to the countless islands and villages thru out the developing countrys where kite tourism has been for last 20 years and look for yourself at the droves of crippled kids hobbled over hand walking like 80 year old steel fixers because theyre parents pulled them from school and forced them to be kitesurfers.
Or you know use your head and wonder if something that can pull a yacht should be attached to a childs spine.
General rule of thumb is if they cant do weight lifting cause theyre spine isnt fully developed then they cant kitesurf yet
I call bull**** on this. Coming from a farming background, it was a matter of pride to be able to throw bales of hay onto a truck/trailer as a kid or try and lift anything an adult could. There was a great sense of invulnerability and crashing dirt bikes, dealing with sheep and cattle etc were seen as normal last century. My back is pushing 60 and has been no trouble my entire life. Much of which was in physically demanding work.
And if you research a bit deeper you'll find that when teenagers lift weights it increases their physical strength and their bone strength index (BSI)
It also results in decreasing fracture risk and rates of sports-related injury.
So get your kids kitesurfing, it's f$#*ing good for them!
As someone who has sold windsurf and kitesurf gear for decades, I don't believe cost is the issue if you're young and really interested in the sport. I would gladly support any young person who really wants to kitesurf for more than a few weeks with some low cost gear that wasn't crap and basic lessons. Young people are socially well connected, which is pretty obvious, and if you can get one interested a lot can follow. So it's a good business move to get youth into the sport.
However no-one seems to be interested except ageing baby boomers. I don't even see young people on the beach much or even in the street any more, even in school holidays. Some of the rare occurrences of youth I see on the beach is so soft and pudgy looking that a few minutes on an inflatable water toy on flat water would be all they could handle physically. Or they're too busy posing for that perfect instagram photo which was the only reason they were on the beach anyway.
As a matter of interest how any people on this forum are under 30. Hands up people!
I was in my 20's when I started windsurfing along with many others similar age... last century
Select to expand quotecausehecan said..
Go to the countless islands and villages thru out the developing countrys where kite tourism has been for last 20 years and look for yourself at the droves of crippled kids hobbled over hand walking like 80 year old steel fixers because theyre parents pulled them from school and forced them to be kitesurfers.
Or you know use your head and wonder if something that can pull a yacht should be attached to a childs spine.
General rule of thumb is if they cant do weight lifting cause theyre spine isnt fully developed then they cant kitesurf yet
This is what I've been saying all along...
Is what is wrong with our children today. More cotton wool around kids is what is needed.
Maybe this thread needs to separate into sections
1. The industry
2. The sport
3. The woosie weakies weeded out at childhood.
Select to expand quoteRAL INN said..
Maybe this thread needs to separate into sections
1. The industry
2. The sport
3. The woosie weakies weeded out at childhood.
1. What the girl said
2. Kiting is a hobby. It's not athletic enough to be a sport.
3. Kiting shouldn't be done by anyone 15 yo. Appropriate sports below:
Cost is 100% a contributing factor, not the only one but definitely is there, most people that kite near me at least, are supporting young families. I have watched over the years as people just can't justify purchasing a new kite even though they are frothing on the sport, it's a maybe, a big maybe on a new one when they don't have a choice or mostly there buying second hand for sure. To think otherwise is to be narrow minded, times are tuff for some people out there, people don't like to spend money in tuff times especially on non essential items, wake up to yourselves lol. If you believe it's the younger kids not interested in outdoor activities you are dreaming, heaps of young surf gromies popping up everywhere at my local, go figure......... I don't mind, like others having space to kite isn't a bad outcome 
, but just find it amusing how out of touch some are with maybe half their target demographic that they are trying to sell to. Young people can't afford new equipment unless their well off mums and dads are there to buy it for them, most normal mums and dads cannot afford to buy their kids new kite equipment. You got to be joking lol, saying young people no longer like outdoor activities hahaha
Select to expand quotebeefarmer said..
Based on my occasional brouse through the forums of late I've come to the conclusion causehecan is just stiring **** for giggles.
But there seem to be an awful lot of people taking the hook and running with it. Am i missing something here?
Nope you are on it I reckon. And a few of us think causehecan and amirite are the same person! He used to work in the industry for a very well known retailer (No not KP).....
Select to expand quotetheDoctor said..causehecan said..
They are trying very hard to turn people against me and using alternative accounts lots of personal attacks and insults they dont want me here on this forum. they know whats happening and They know whats coming. And THEY stop for no man......WINDWINGS 
Jebus tap dancing christ, paranoid much..?
what's the diagnosis doc?
NEWS FLASH people....the current health crisis crippling third world and developing countries is not ebola, dysentery, malaria, malnutrition, poor water quality or dengue but kite surfing!! World Health Officials are trying to stem the current outbreak of a new health issue hitting these unfortunate countries....wing surfers!
Select to expand quoteMrexport said..
Any chance I can get the formula for working out the horse power of my Kite Causehecan?
Ill drink to that.
I doubt if a kite could put a load of 350kg on a kids back, or anyone for that matter. For a 50kg kid that would be pulling 7G.
The load is created by the power in the kite and the tension in the lines. No tension in the lines means no load on the rider. The only way you're going to get a lot of tension on the lines is to be a heavy unit and/or to edge really hard.
The bulk of the time the load on the lines would be some proportion of your body weight. If you load up hard and pop then arguably the load would be your body weight plus a bit more. I doubt if the load ever approaches 2G.
We've had a few 8 year old kiters at our local. One has gone on to be a world class competitor. The others keep at it and end up pretty good kiters. Some give up to do other stuff. I've seen that scenario repeat several times.
I have seen similar outcomes in other sports. Hard core competitive dad ends up with a son that is equally hard core and competitive in some other sport. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.
The main factor has been the parents. Some push the kids to be just like dad, with varying degrees of success. Others the kids just can't get enough of it and dad ends up being their kite caddy.
Gorgo is you do a google and check the thread your right about the weight etc and they were able to calculate a big dude can actually get equivalent to 12hp from kite.
Which is pretty amazing but yeah im im going to stick with my 5hp cause it measures up quite nicely with our kite line strengths doesnt doesnt it? Wonder if it was sheer pot luck that it worked out that way.... Hmmmm......
Select to expand quotecausehecan said..
The witch hunting for who i am is getting interesting. Ive been accused of being several different people. And even multiple people at once.
I'm confused to what is my crime?
Pointed out that kites dont last for 2000 hours and that having a rope around a kids back and yanking him to the tune of 350kgs is bad for them?
Not exactly mind blowing.
I think the real situation is that you all think im somebody.... Somebody some of you dont like? Why?
Or is it just someone new has joined the knitting circle so theres alot of gossiping going on and a possible adjustment in the tribal standing?
Btw as for the youth in sport.... Its embaressing reading all of you talk about it. Honestly.
E sports we have teenagers in australia winning millions of dollers cash far greater then any of your coveted sports and hobbys would ever net them and you say theyre weak and lazy? E sport athletes are performing on a level you cant even comprehend. And its hilarious just how proudly ignorant alot of you are.
I personally don't give a flying pigs grunt who you are, but it's highly entertaining with or without pants and a mullet riding a horse.
Don't know about crippled youths in developing countries, have traveled extensively in my life (over 60 countries) but maybe they were hidden away from me. As for sports in childhood, I did competitive show jumping (horseback) and BMX racing from the age of 7 and had plenty crashes. I'm now 47, still kite, mountain bike & rock climb. Still wake up without pain or stiffness but reckon regular exercise, Pilates and stretching has a lot to do with it.
Well, to get back to the point: Where is our sport headed? I taught both my boys on appropriate sized equipment, the 10yo decided kiting wasn't for him and currently trains 14 hours per week and competes at state level gymnastics. All the research I did said "weight lifting is damaging under the age of 15 or 16 but body weight exercises (like gymnastics) are very beneficial for growing bodies" He still loves wake boarding though.
My 12yo loves kiteboarding, is now pretty much self sufficient and kites with me any chance he gets. He also surfs and wake boards at the cable park.
I have never pushed my boys into their sports but always tried to support them as best I can, 12yo needed a larger kite this season and I found a good 2016 option 2nd hand on SB for $650 including bar. Hasn't flown the smaller kite since.
After selling the smallest kite which is 2 sizes down, the change over cost per session was definitely cheaper than tenpin bowling, video games or going to a movie.
As kiters we should encourage the young and so should the brands. As for each different discipline in kiting, they all have their merits and target market. I'm just not into foiling ......yet!
Theres only one clear path for kitesurfing and thats for it to take to the skys.
The water boys with fast sunglasses are going to start copying the snow kiters and doing big jumps off mountains and cliffs and landing in water.
Select to expand quotecausehecan said..
Anyone seen my horse?
if you stand back from your screen and squint a bit
you can make out the shape of a pony in that cloudy backdrop
Select to expand quotecausehecan said..
Hay you know what would save your kids spines? Windwings! Get em while theyre hot
I hope ive pointed out exactly how this whole game works.
I should change my name to atticus
You're probably right about that, makes an extremely safe alterative for kids to enjoy the power of the wind with no consequence.
Personally I'm teaching my kids to windsurf (eldest is now hooked). For me the risks of kiting were to high ,for someone else maybe not in their assessment.
Geez at 62 been on this forum for nearly 14 years now , in the early days we would post about actual kitesurfing , boards kites techniques and helpfull imformation etc , not this absolute bull#@4 conversations that i see now on every second post, the post start out with relevant stuff then gets hijacked ,can only imagine that they come from keyboard warriors not actual surfers that work ,
Bit older and crankier than used to be , social media has a lot to answer for me anyway, sebreeze still one of the best forums around when the BS is kept out
Laurie might be time to set new boundarys to what is posted
Post about kitesurfing in the kitesurfing section , if you need to dicuss anything else talk to your therapist
Keep the stoke not the Bul@#$
Ok I'll bite.
For the record, I am Lofty - not "causehecan" - nothing personal @chc. I actually find his banter quite funny and stirring, unlike the usual stagnant discussions here recently, so thanks Steve M for raising this thread.
Speaking of Stevo - I spoke a while back with him during his "Ozone Tour of NQ". I admit I was left with a sour-taste in my mouth, but frankly that is what the industry is like. Friends? LOL! What friends? If any they are those with thick wallets. Everyone else are "fans" and "noobs".
It reminds me of my mobile DJ-ing days back in the 80s and the massive amount of ego and backstabbing that went around. If you don't have a thick-skin in this, you get nowhere. And the hype around localism - I laugh. This is not the cemented surfboard industry! They know what true localism is and it's been around for over 40 years! How old is this sport really? 20 years? And we still call it an "extreme" sport? LOL
Unfortunately, it seems to be the way within any profession or trade - you have to take the good and hold on to it as much as you can - and deal with the bad just as easily. You know the saying, "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer!".
This is why my Northern Kites Australia business is still running - repairs, sales and lessons. That's it. It's a simple formula that works, and I don't have any agreement with anyone or any brand. I simply buy, recondition and on-sell. I owe no one anything!
Like many here said, the justification to spend over $2000 on new or near new equipment is beyond the reach of most people - of people of ANY age. Kids want to do this to feed their adrenaline and impress their peers and girl-friends, and us old farts love it because it's an escape from the kids, family and jobs. It keeps us fit.
So the sport will survive I have no doubt, but the market has to look at it from all angles - from low income to high income, from kids up and from all nationalities. The days of feeding "elitists and heroes" of the sport are over. They have to feed themselves and they do.
Until institutions including the IOC and others, take kite-surfing as a genuine mainstream sport and we get away from this "extreme - I am a hero attitude - sport" BS, then we'll always be "fringe" and sales will suffer because of it. Most kite stores rely on lessons, clothing, accessories or their parents! Why is it they don't go into shopping centers!? Nuff said.
Finally, for all the naysayers, stirrers, and other BS artists I've come across in this hobby - thanks! No seriously thanks. You've made me stronger and more determined. You've taught me how NOT to relate to customers and people, and hey... your losses are my wins! Keep going the way you have always been.
^ lol name dropping lofty now I know you're not a kiter.
Back on topic: We would probably see a fair bit more growth (especially amongst the juniors) if we had more established infrastructure eg. Kite club with lockers shower etc.
Its still pretty daunting for someone of the street to walk up to someone with a kite and ask them what it is / how to get involved.
I would have gone to the beach to watch maybe five or six times before I actually went up to a dude and asked him how to start.
I know its hard to get the numbers on the east coast but surely on the west at places like the pond?
How good would it be: kite, warm shower then a beer on the veranda, you would probably survive on social members alone 
Aswell: I would be more likely to hand down my last year kites to a club to use for youth dev as I'm sure most people would which would alleviate some of the costs etc.
The next problem for kiters is more expensive materials such as ORs Aluula fabric.
If a kite ends up lasting twice as long for 50% more expense, it'll scare off new kiters and kiting will go the way of windsurfing.
Yes, they could still build cheaper kites, but they just won't sell if the tech is better.
