Jim621:
That's AS approved which is what they will require for a marine 'craft'.
Dusta:
Regardless of racing rules I think you'll find your impact vest won't have that AS number on it which will mean you can't use your vest anymore.
I don't mind about PFD or no PFD but I do think the AS approved ones that are currently on the market won't work for kiters. Most self inflating ones are set off by being submerged in water, that clearly won't work for kiting.
There needs to be laws made by people who actually know the sport not volatiles or pollies! I wonder how the reaction will be with the first few broken necks due to unsuitable PFD's? Perhaps a total knee jerk ban of PFD's when kiting? Or perhaps ban kiting all together, that's a nice quick instant injury solving problem.
How many other 'dangerous' sports can we ban???
This rule has been enforced in Victoria for years, yet you don't hear us complaining.
Don't want to wear one? Well don't! Stop complaining like your sister stole your Barbie doll, ya bunch of sissys!
Take your complaining to the WA SECTION too.
Select to expand quotesuniboy21 said...
This rule has been enforced in Victoria for years, yet you don't hear us complaining.
Don't want to wear one? Well don't! Stop complaining like your sister stole your Barbie doll, ya bunch of sissys!
Take your complaining to the WA SECTION too.
Too late, you just made it a national topic, haha!
So what set up is common for the macho-men over there to use?
Please explain how epirbs and flares are carried and what approved pfds are worn.
Having years of experience, you guys should have the set up nailed by now.
Show us how it's done.
Hey Kiterboy,
These are the jackets i'm talking about, and as far as I know the only ones with eperb/ pfd that doesn't auto-inflate, designed for wet-work. But as I said very $$, morte than a new board 
I know what I would rather and will spend my money on.
Select to expand quotedusta said..
i would love to know exactly how many tt and directional riders actually go more than 400m offshore anyway .
Alot of crying over something that is not going to affect 95% of the kiting community .
I'm being serious .
I would say almost all kiteboarders.
400 meters is not that far, those yellow markers along the metro cost are 200M off the shore, so it is only double that.
Traveling at 20Kts you will cover 400M in just 38.8 seconds, so I would say almost all kiteboarders would do at least one tack for longer than 38 seconds in a day.
Select to expand quotejuicerider said..dusta said..
i would love to know exactly how many tt and directional riders actually go more than 400m offshore anyway .
Alot of crying over something that is not going to affect 95% of the kiting community .
I'm being serious .
I would say almost all kiteboarders.
400 meters is not that far, those yellow markers along the metro cost are 200M off the shore, so it is only double that.
Traveling at 20Kts you will cover 400M in just 38.8 seconds, so I would say almost all kiteboarders would do at least one tack for longer than 38 seconds in a day.
That's exactly right. That vast majority of kiters we see at our local spot would go regularly past 400m from the shore on a daily basis and some even further. It's easy to tell because of a yellow marker 400m from the shore.
The fact is with a growing population of kiters, more kiters are needing to be rescued every year. If anything, I hope such a rule will help bring some common sense into kiters. Far too many times I've seen kiters getting in trouble beyond 400 meters from the shore without having the ability to self-rescue competently and in a timely manner. Many of them attempt swimming against their kites, others ditch the kite. After a spending a while drifting downwind it's normal for others to get worried and start calling for rescue.
Unfortunately wearing a life vest and having flares or EPRIB's won't make you better at self-rescue.
Personally I think if all kiters wanting to go out in deep water spots would have to demonstrate efficient self-rescue skills we would see far less people in need of assistance. Deep water Self-rescue has to be the least mastered skill not only amongst beginners but other more experienced kiters as well.
Last year during a safety clinic, amongst the 40 active kiters present, only 12 of them have been asked to perform a deep water self-rescue during their lessons! Most of them, at best, have only had a demonstration from the instructor in shallow waters...
2 NM off the metro coast and 400m off rotto seems much more reasonable. Inshore of that it is an issue of personal responsibility and possibly a bit of self-policing among kiters.
Select to expand quoteparrotdroppings said..
Jim621:
That's AS approved which is what they will require for a marine 'craft'.
Dusta:
Regardless of racing rules I think you'll find your impact vest won't have that AS number on it which will mean you can't use your vest anymore.
actually according to the DOT website
Select to expand quotePFD Type 3 (AS2260) Also known as a buoyancy garment. Available in range of styles and colours. Like PFD Type 2, used by board sailors, water skiers, PWC operators, canoeists, etc.l
PFD Type 3 (AS2260)Also known as a buoyancy garment.
PFD type 3
Level 50 special purpose
picture of my pfd and it's specs .
It is PFD 3 rated as you can clearly see with it's level 50 buoyancy and it has been checked at multiple events to conform with a pfd3 rating . Also there is a backpack that goes on it where i could carry the flares and epirb/pld if i was going further than 2nm .
Select to expand quotedusta said...parrotdroppings said..
Jim621:
That's AS approved which is what they will require for a marine 'craft'.
Dusta:
Regardless of racing rules I think you'll find your impact vest won't have that AS number on it which will mean you can't use your vest anymore.
actually according to the DOT website
PFD Type 3 (AS2260) Also known as a buoyancy garment. Available in range of styles and colours. Like PFD Type 2, used by board sailors, water skiers, PWC operators, canoeists, etc.l
PFD Type 3 (AS2260)Also known as a buoyancy garment.
PFD type 3
Level 50 special purpose
picture of my pfd and it's specs .
It is PFD 3 rated as you can clearly see with it's level 50 buoyancy and it has been checked at multiple events to conform with a pfd3 rating . Also there is a backpack that goes on it where i could carry the flares and epirb/pld if i was going further than 2nm .
I don't doubt it's a great vest dusta. BUT it doesn't have the the Australian Standards approval.
There's a motorcycle helmet on the market called a Simpson. Best in the world by a mile!!! Can't use it in Australia because it doesn't have the AS approval.
Hate to tell you but the maritime authorities will be looking for the AS number if they were to pull you up. (Which is not likely).
Look at the stamp on your vest "for swimming use in calm waters where help is nearby" (or similar).
It might be the best vest on earth, but unless it has the AS stamp, it won't pass!
Dusta, your still not getting it. Even if your vest was to standard (which its not) but your still talking of wearing your vest and carring a backpack with a eperb and flares,. just a tad annoying dont you think? As the tread title reads. Maby ok if you just crusing along in a straight line from pointto point but try getting smashed on the inside wearing that crap, not for me. I find that more dangerous as stated.
Considering that the law around boating in certain sizes boats requires you to have PFD's when in open water, don't you think its halve obvious that the same should be considered for kiting more then 400m offshore?
Select to expand quotesuniboy21 said...
Considering that the law around boating in certain sizes boats requires you to have PFD's when in open water, don't you think its halve obvious that the same should be considered for kiting more then 400m offshore?
Still waiting for you to tell us what the typical Vic set up is...
The Dept of Transport media release I just found.
Offshore kite and wind surfers need safety gear Kite and wind surfers operating more than 400 metres from shore are now required to carry safety equipment.
Department of Transport Coordinator of Safety Education Laurie Adams said the growing popularity of kite and wind surfing, coupled with recent developments in the sports and participants venturing further and further offshore had prompted new laws to improve safety of the activities.
"The laws, which apply from today (August 1, 2014), promote safety and have the capacity to save lives," Mr Adams said.
"Endorsed by the WA Kite Surfing Association and Windsurfing Western Australia following extensive consultation, the new requirements will be the subject of an education campaign and phased in over the next 18 months."
If a kite or wind surfer is between 400 metres and two nautical miles from shore they now require a lifejacket and can chose to carry either red and orange flares or an Emergency Positioning Indicating Radio Beacon (EPIRB) or Personal Locator Beacon (PLB). Between two and five nautical miles operators must carry a lifejacket and EPIRB and further offshore they must also carry parachute flares.
Mr Adams said recognition of kite and wind surfing as an aquatic activity also gave DoT authority to create on water areas for the activities in consultation with local Government allowing for improved safety and coordination of land based areas for rigging, take- off and landing. DoT has launched Kite and Wind Surf Safe to raise awareness about the about the new laws. To view the campaign visit www.transport.wa.gov.au/kitesafe
Stop sooking gents, all they have really done is recognise kiting within the existing legislation, up until now we weren't recognised as vessels which actually left us quite vulnerable within existing legislation, especially when it comes to right of way etc etc. 98% of kiters won't go out beyond 400 metres, of those that do venture out that far the tweak in the legislation most likely won't change their attitude towards wearing PFD's or carrying flares/EPIRBS. They either will carry them or they won't. And fark knows how DoT would actually enforce it anyway 
Marine flares work perfectly well when wet, EPIRBS are quite small these days and don't need to be touched for 6-7 years of their battery warranty (and only certain models are water activated), it also looks like beyond 400 metres it needs to be a type 1 PFD, there are inflatable type 1's on the market for less than $100 and I think these would tuck in under a rashie fairly well.
And don't take 'recent developments' as incidents, yeah it could be PilotPete's collision, or simply its someone in DoT that identified a hole in existing legislation and was also looking for an example for a promotion application 
. I also know for a fact that there are a number of searches conducted every summer in Perth metro waters for kiters in distress that involve expensive search and volunteer assets, most of which rarely make the news or this forum.
And I guess many of you started sooking before you actually looked into it and missed this bit Mr Adams said recognition of kite and wind surfing as an aquatic activity also gave DoT authority to create on water areas for the activities in consultation with local Government allowing for improved safety and coordination of land based areas for rigging, take- off and landing.
Select to expand quoteChris6791 said...
And I guess many of you started sooking before you actually looked into it and missed this bit Mr Adams said recognition of kite and wind surfing as an aquatic activity also gave DoT authority to create on water areas for the activities in consultation with local Government allowing for improved safety and coordination of land based areas for rigging, take- off and landing.
Sounds more like laying the ground work for implementing heavy restrictions on designated kiting areas...
^^^ As opposed to getting smashed by local government already? All I read from the majority above is whinging about something that they are going to ignore anyway, that seems like a waste of time to me?
thank **** there is one other person who is thinking before going and having a sook .
Like chris said how does everyone even think that they will enforce this anyway . Perfect example is bag limits for fishing . Apart from a few busy boatramps they do jack sh@t
Don't wear one
wont wear one
dont go out further than you are prepared to swim or self rescue back to shore.
Dusta... Your PFD and all PFD 2&3 are useless if you are solo sailing as they do not support your head above water if you get knocked out.
Select to expand quoteharry potter said..
Dusta... Your PFD and all PFD 2&3 are useless if you are solo sailing as they do not support your head above water if you get knocked out.
really ?
thanks for pointing it out bro , never would have known that .
Select to expand quotedusta said...harry potter said..
Dusta... Your PFD and all PFD 2&3 are useless if you are solo sailing as they do not support your head above water if you get knocked out.
really ?
thanks for pointing it out bro , never would have known that .
Ahh, so they're not for keeping you from drowning if you're knocked out, they're just to make it easier to find the body.
I'm sold.
This would have to be the biggest load of wank I've heard from the state government.
So then I would expect this to also apply to anyone surfing offshore reefs on a surfboard.
Most accidents happen with kiters while near the beach due to freak accidents where they are lifted by a gust into something. Someone get a grip and get some common sense. Does anyone know anyone who has been knocked out while kiting over 400m offshore? Of course not. The only time you get knocked out is while showing off to the hot chicks on the beach while trying a cool trick. I don't know why anyone kiting would think this new rule is ok.
What good is a life jacket when you have a line caught on it and you are being dragged face down while your kite is doing a death loop. I actually think the lack of movement and possibility of snags from kite lines will make it more dangerous.
Select to expand quotedusta said..harry potter said..
Dusta... Your PFD and all PFD 2&3 are useless if you are solo sailing as they do not support your head above water if you get knocked out.
really ?
thanks for pointing it out bro , never would have known that .
Dusta mate,
how about the gov. says 'wear a helmet from now on' coz our poor friend died? Would coldshot agree on wearing one? Not likely, I think.
Myself lived in Holland where everyone laughs about OZ laws of push bike helmets. With 14 mil. riders I think they know something about it.
How about the govt. restrict how high I jump? Hey, it only affects 5%...
D.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..suniboy21 said...
Considering that the law around boating in certain sizes boats requires you to have PFD's when in open water, don't you think its halve obvious that the same should be considered for kiting more then 400m offshore?
Still waiting for you to tell us what the typical Vic set up is...
Kiterboy, I never venture out further then 400m.
A Few of the boys that I know who are regularly doing offshore downwinders carry eperbs and handheld radios in a backpack.
Yes they also wear PFD's.
Id recommend all of you winging girls to have a go at knocking yourselfs out 1km off shore and then try attempt a water pack down and a swim back to shore in a howling 25kn breeze before you start to complain about the new laws.
*** you I won't do what you tell me
*** you I won't do what you tell me
*** you I won't do what you tell me
RATM...
.....every time I kite it's well over 1km off shore usually 20k's from anybody, compulsory swimming lessons are what's needed, people need to loose there affinity with there 'expensive' gear, get shot of it and swim in, knowing I can swim in from at least 2km helps .
Select to expand quotesuniboy21 said...kiterboy said..suniboy21 said...
Considering that the law around boating in certain sizes boats requires you to have PFD's when in open water, don't you think its halve obvious that the same should be considered for kiting more then 400m offshore?
Still waiting for you to tell us what the typical Vic set up is...
Kiterboy, I never venture out further then 400m.
A Few of the boys that I know who are regularly doing offshore downwinders carry eperbs and handheld radios in a backpack.
Yes they also wear PFD's.
Id recommend all of you winging girls to have a go at knocking yourselfs out 1km off shore and then try attempt a water pack down and a swim back to shore in a howling 25kn breeze before you start to complain about the new laws.
You want us to do a deep water pack down and swim in after knocking ourselves out??
LOL, if you call 25kn howling, perhaps kiting isn't for you.
Select to expand quotesuniboy21 said...kiterboy said..suniboy21 said...
Considering that the law around boating in certain sizes boats requires you to have PFD's when in open water, don't you think its halve obvious that the same should be considered for kiting more then 400m offshore?
Still waiting for you to tell us what the typical Vic set up is...
Kiterboy, I never venture out further then 400m.
Hahahaha, and you're calling the WA crew sissies.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..suniboy21 said...kiterboy said..suniboy21 said...
Considering that the law around boating in certain sizes boats requires you to have PFD's when in open water, don't you think its halve obvious that the same should be considered for kiting more then 400m offshore?
Still waiting for you to tell us what the typical Vic set up is...
Kiterboy, I never venture out further then 400m.
Hahahaha, and you're calling the WA crew sissies.
Mowing Klms of ocean on a surfboard is not my thing kiterboy.
I for one are going to be non compliant with this law.
It is amazing reeding this how many people seem to think it does not apply to them, 400 is not very far at all and any descent waterman would be able to swim this in about 10-15 minutes. (<5 if you are in the oz swimming team). If I lost my board and kite 400m offshore this is what I'd do. However if I was to comply with the law Id have a BFD1 on, that would keep my head above water but make it impossible to swim. I therefore would be forced to drift about and activate my epirb and rely on dads army from the volunteer sea rescue to come and pick me up. During a week day they would all be at home with there grandkids and by the time they got organised and found me (without running me over first) I would have probably drifted out past the drum lines.
No I'll be swimming in.
As for being knocked out offshore, pilotpete is the only person I have ever heard about, that this has ever happened too. Maybe a high vis vest would be more appropriate. I'll be taking my chances with this also.
I'm still going to go out to little island and kite the waves there without a life jacket, and in the glory days of windsurfing I have had to swim in from there, and it takes a good hour, but if I had a lifejacket on I'd probably never have made it.
I have knocked myself out once kitesurfing and I can honestly say that a lifejacket, flares and epirb would not have helped at all, so I'll be taking my chances again without them.
Dont get me wrong I think there is definitely a place for lifejackets and flare and epirbs, and certainly in racing, but not for the average kiter hugging the shoreline.
If you think you don't go more than 400m from the shore, you are wrong, it is not that far, and kitesurfing at 20kts you will cover this distance in only 38 seconds.
If you think that a lifejacket, flare's and an epirb are going to do anything more than give you a false sense of security, again I think you are wrong.
I foresee more rescues because people cant swim properly and are going out further because of their new found sense of security.
Select to expand quotembuckley said..
400m isn't "venturing" offshore it is a short tack or a freestyle swimming event.
I know right,.. When I was 12 we used to paddle out to hole in the wall (Lancelin) and I would say that would be easy 400. And now I regularly kite Centres Greenhead and I recon that?s at least double, and yes I have swam that a few times. But its each to their own, some people are comfortable in the water and are happy to swim those distances, some stress in the pond, personal comfort. That?s the point, you wear what you believe you need for the conditions you are comfortable. As I said I?m comfortable paddling 1km out surf for 2-3hrs and paddle back. So for me to wear a jack 400m offshore is overkill and more of an inconvenience that a safety aid.
just out of interest how far from the shore are the yellow boys at melville. it seams that is more then 400m from memory.
