Hey Perth Kiters!
I agree with those saying this stupid shark cull had been blown out of proportion. This token effort will not reduce the risk of attack, nor will the general shark population in WA be reduced in a measurable way.
Studies suggest traveling sharks are the man eaters and a high local abundance of whites does not necessarily increase the risk of attack . Sharks swim a bloody long way across the bight, up the WA coast and even to other countries . What is a baited hook 1km off the Cott gonna do ?? Feck all .
Sharks are required for healthy oceans that we enjoy skimming along , diving, spearing and line fishing in . Killing these animals for no benefit and just to make a scared public feel better is idiotic.
Anyone pro shark culls - stop being such a softy or take up snowboarding .
Hilton said...
This token effort will not reduce the risk of attack, nor will the general shark population in WA be reduced in a measurable way.
So what's the big problem then.... And more importantly wtf are you doing in your username picture....looks dodgy as 
Haha .. Just two guys enjoying a bit of light wind fun in the userpic . Few too many home brews last night - shark cull rabble rabble rabble .
Select to expand quoteBeelzebub said..lostinlondon said..Monkers said..
If anything they attack us because WE deserve it - how many sharks do we kill as bycatch? .
You statement is as offensive as that of the infamous Australian Mufti "Sheik Hilali", who said women deserve to be raped if they go around like uncovered meat.
You misquote me - If sharks had human feelings, then they would attack us merely in self defense on the basis of the sheer numbers of sharks we catch and kill in the fishing industry. But they don't have human feelings and they only attack us because we happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and are extremely unlucky.
"If it can inconvenience me AND if it's scary AND if there's a chance it can kill me - kill it". The age of narcissism and convenience at it's finest. Sound like a bunch of kitesurfers.
After 11 years of kiting, the best experience I had with a kite was not the long walls of Peru or the desert lefts of the NW or the ledges down south or the flat water at Woodies with one other mate out (7-8 years ago) - it was when I cruised past a great white about 500m off Brighton last year.
Suppose it's different for different people but I would rather die from a shark attack in the ocean than in a car on the bitumen. Currently, my chances of the latter far outweigh the former.
Shark attack is a true horror. If we can somehow take steps to prevent it, we have to do it. Fish can make up for any losses in numbers, it's a law they follow, just ask Charles Darwin. They will make up the difference, trust in Mother Nature. Those who don't spend much time in the water are not really qualified to weigh in here. Please try not to let your emotions or correct political aspirations affect your opinion. It's all about love, your brothers and sisters, lets not allow them to be eaten. If we can prevent our brothers and sisters from being eaten alive, why not do something?
Select to expand quoteSeptic said..
Shark attack is a true horror. If we can somehow take steps to prevent it, we have to do it. Fish can make up for any losses in numbers, it's a law they follow, just ask Charles Darwin. They will make up the difference, trust in Mother Nature. Those who don't spend much time in the water are not really qualified to weigh in here. Please try not to let your emotions or correct political aspirations affect your opinion. It's all about love, your brothers and sisters, lets not allow them to be eaten. If we can prevent our brothers and sisters from being eaten alive, why not do something?
I have to say I'm with you septic. Whether it works or not is very debatable, but at least it's something. I always wonder at those (and most of us) who have way too much wealth, time and security to the point, we devalue a human life against a prehistoric animal. Where most humans (as a percentage) are just trying to survive day to day, we sit here and debate the ecological merits of taking some sharks out the water. I suppose all great civilisations throughout history at their peak got to the point where they had the luxury to debate such benign topics.
I also agree with Eppo and Septic. I am certainly not wanting to eradicate every shark from our beloved Oceans and the drum lines probably won't work very well because the activists threats to the professional fishermen, have now put this task in the hands of people who realistically are not the best people to be charged with catching sharks. But thats another argument.
I have a theory I wish to share and invite comment.
I think these massive sharks, 4m plus that are coming close to shore are certainly looking for a slow moving meal. Being a top line predator, they fear nothing and have no qualms about leaving their natural environmental habitat of the open ocean, to get away from the overpopulated, highly competitive feeding grounds they normally haunt.
Reports from fishermen claim that these days they have "hundreds" of sharks following their boats, compared to a few years ago when, there were half a dozen or so.
I reckon these large sharks are either too slow, or too sick, to hunt and survive with all the other sharks, so they hang around the shallows, looking for a freebie, so to speak.
If they were fit and healthy sharks, they would be out in the open ocean eating whales and other ocean creatures.
They do not belong in shallow waters.
To all the activists and misinformed who brand people like me a "softy"(hiltonhood), perhaps you need to hear the stories from people on the scene of a shark attack. People who have dragged a bleeding, lifeless body of a mate from the surf in shallow waters. Hardly the act of a softy.
These sharks are huge and will bite a person in half with one chomp, no problem. They cannot discriminate between a seal, a surfer or an outboard motor, if its in the water and its moving, it must be food.
Sadly we do need to remove these threats from our waters, because they won't go away if we ask nicely.
Some of these monsters are spotted by surfers and kiters so regularly, they have been given names, "the kombi" "brutus" and "puss puss".
Poor little "puss Puss"wouldn't hurt anyone.
So, if you really want to protest, go jump in the water when the kombi or puss puss is after a snack. Really make your point.
Select to expand quoteSeptic said..
Shark attack is a true horror. If we can somehow take steps to prevent it, we have to do it. Fish can make up for any losses in numbers, it's a law they follow, just ask Charles Darwin. They will make up the difference, trust in Mother Nature. Those who don't spend much time in the water are not really qualified to weigh in here. Please try not to let your emotions or correct political aspirations affect your opinion. It's all about love, your brothers and sisters, lets not allow them to be eaten. If we can prevent our brothers and sisters from being eaten alive, why not do something?
I'm sorry, my mind just exploded. You just misrepresented Charles Darwin's theory on evolution and managed to sound like an evangelical minister all in the one sentence. I'm not letting my emotions get in the way - cold hard logic and common sense says the culls are a waste of time. Let's see how many "man eaters" these drumlines catch. By your own admission, the "fish" can make up for any losses in numbers. So why cull them in the first place if they are just going to breed and fill the gaps?
If it about saving life, there are many lower hanging fruits to have a go at.
Ok @wads - sorry for dropping softy at yous ...
But seriously mate ....
- 12 to hundreds over a few years ?
- geriatric 4m man eaters eating anything slow moving in the water ?
Get in the water to make a point ?? Of course - surfing , diving and kiting whenever I can .
I think you are making up these scary scenarios in your imagination, perceiving a risk level that is not real.
What are we doing about bees?
They kill more people than sharks each year in Australia. Should we cull them? Exterminate them? Nuke them? Make everyone wear bees suits? Put bee-proof netting around all our buildings?
Or take preventative measures so that people who get anaphylactic shock from bee stings avoid bees where possible and carry an epipen?
I think effective prevention measures are order of magnitude better than politically motivated ineffective attempts at "cure" (culling).
Select to expand quotePeterc150 said..
What are we doing about bees?
They kill more people than sharks each year in Australia. Should we cull them? Exterminate them? Nuke them? Make everyone wear bees suits? Put bee-proof netting around all our buildings?
Or take preventative measures so that people who get anaphylactic shock from bee stings avoid bees where possible and carry an epipen?
I think effective prevention measures are order of magnitude better than politically motivated ineffective attempts at "cure" (culling).
Where can I get a shark bite epipen?
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..Peterc150 said..
What are we doing about bees?
They kill more people than sharks each year in Australia. Should we cull them? Exterminate them? Nuke them? Make everyone wear bees suits? Put bee-proof netting around all our buildings?
Or take preventative measures so that people who get anaphylactic shock from bee stings avoid bees where possible and carry an epipen?
I think effective prevention measures are order of magnitude better than politically motivated ineffective attempts at "cure" (culling).
Where can I get a shark bite epipen?
Use Penthrane (Green stick) provided by Ambos if bitten. Won't cure anything but will help with the pain.
Prevention measures include:
* Early detection and alarm systems (such as tagging more sharks with radio trackers so they "Tweet" their location and can be tracked).
* Community education
* Increased scientific research
Select to expand quotePeterc150 said..
* Early detection and alarm systems (such as tagging more sharks with radio trackers so they "Tweet" their location and can be tracked).
* Community education
* Increased scientific research
I don't disagree with this stuff like the drum lines not fool proof and not necessarily going to work but equally IMO not likely to hurt, but bottom line is there's been a whole bunch of attacks in recent years and it's not like there isn't 100's of baited hooks thrown over the side of a boat everyday or for that matter a whole bunch of sharks hauled over the side of the boat headed for the fish and chip shop.
Guess we could always catch a few and release them in your back yard......when was the last GWS attack in Melbourne?
How I understand it some US research organisation offered to come and at their cost tag and research GWS but the greenies were the ones that cried that it was cruel and that they might not survive the "procedure" so I'm not sure......would that not have been an option regardless of the bait lines especially if they tag some of the big ones.......!!!!
Every clubbie I talk to is pro the bait lines, what about the lifesavers that volunteer their time to man the beaches keeping them safe for swimmers, imagine your child/partner gets eaten on a training run to making sure they are fit enough to be able to drag someone back to the beach.
Talk to the cray fisherman the abalone divers they are all saying they are diving in cages and would never venture into the water due to the number of sharks they see on their daily runs.
Like most things if we knew what was really swimming around us when we are out in the ocean I know I for one would start crying like a school girl with fear.
As far as I am concerned I do feel safer while no real justification but just the fact that knowing that a few big buggers are out the food chain.
The way I see it is we RAPE the earth whether it be mining, farming, fishing and housing while we don't see the instant effects as a shark copping some lead to the cranium on national TV they probably have the some if not worse repercussions over time......
I think we should have an auction and for a licence to catch anything 5m plus and the money can go to research and development and to finding better solutions/warning safety systems. I'm sure there would be some big game fisherman that would pay big coin for the opportunity an to take a 5m jaw to hang on the bar wall, but I guess that will start a whole new debate......LOL
I wonder how many of the protesters the other day at Cott had been to the beach in the last 6 months or had fish and chips that weekend.........I'm just saying............... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stay safe peeps.........;)
Select to expand quoteAddikt said..
How I understand it some US research organisation offered to come and at their cost tag and research GWS but the greenies were the ones that cried that it was cruel and that they might not survive the "procedure" so I'm not sure......would that not have been an option regardless of the bait lines especially if they tag some of the big ones.......!!!!
Every clubbie I talk to is pro the bait lines, what about the lifesavers that volunteer their time to man the beaches keeping them safe for swimmers, imagine your child/partner gets eaten on a training run to making sure they are fit enough to be able to drag someone back to the beach.
Talk to the cray fisherman the abalone divers they are all saying they are diving in cages and would never venture into the water due to the number of sharks they see on their daily runs.
Like most things if we knew what was really swimming around us when we are out in the ocean I know I for one would start crying like a school girl with fear.
As far as I am concerned I do feel safer while no real justification but just the fact that knowing that a few big buggers are out the food chain.
The way I see it is we RAPE the earth whether it be mining, farming, fishing and housing while we don't see the instant effects as a shark copping some lead to the cranium on national TV they probably have the some if not worse repercussions over time......
I think we should have an auction and for a licence to catch anything 5m plus and the money can go to research and development and to finding better solutions/warning safety systems. I'm sure there would be some big game fisherman that would pay big coin for the opportunity an to take a 5m jaw to hang on the bar wall, but I guess that will start a whole new debate......LOL
I wonder how many of the protesters the other day at Cott had been to the beach in the last 6 months or had fish and chips that weekend.........I'm just saying............... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stay safe peeps.........;)Select to expand quoteAddikt said..
How I understand it some US research organisation offered to come and at their cost tag and research GWS but the greenies were the ones that cried that it was cruel and that they might not survive the "procedure" so I'm not sure......would that not have been an option regardless of the bait lines especially if they tag some of the big ones.......!!!!
Every clubbie I talk to is pro the bait lines, what about the lifesavers that volunteer their time to man the beaches keeping them safe for swimmers, imagine your child/partner gets eaten on a training run to making sure they are fit enough to be able to drag someone back to the beach.
Talk to the cray fisherman the abalone divers they are all saying they are diving in cages and would never venture into the water due to the number of sharks they see on their daily runs.
Like most things if we knew what was really swimming around us when we are out in the ocean I know I for one would start crying like a school girl with fear.
As far as I am concerned I do feel safer while no real justification but just the fact that knowing that a few big buggers are out the food chain.
The way I see it is we RAPE the earth whether it be mining, farming, fishing and housing while we don't see the instant effects as a shark copping some lead to the cranium on national TV they probably have the some if not worse repercussions over time......
I think we should have an auction and for a licence to catch anything 5m plus and the money can go to research and development and to finding better solutions/warning safety systems. I'm sure there would be some big game fisherman that would pay big coin for the opportunity an to take a 5m jaw to hang on the bar wall, but I guess that will start a whole new debate......LOL
I wonder how many of the protesters the other day at Cott had been to the beach in the last 6 months or had fish and chips that weekend.........I'm just saying............... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stay safe peeps.........;)
Incorrect re: "Greenies" rejecting the US research organisation offer. It was the government who rejected the offer. They claimed that the wildlife might not be handled in accordance with local laws. And now they're catching and killing them with hooks? Whatever side of the debate you're on, that right there is just retarded hypocrisy.
There's a lot of anecdotal evidence that sharks, and comsequently big sharks in particular have bred up over the last couple of decades.
I'd love to see some scientific analysis of this.
My personal theory is that it's linked to the humpback whale population increase. My straw poll observation of whales passing horrocks, up and down, they are increasing 10 to 20 % a year. Just what I see.
I don't have a problem nailing a few sharks close to the beach. But the whales are back in Antarctica now so am not sure the big guys are actually around anyway.
wow the best part of this entire debate is how almost everyone, bar one or two who use their brains for reasoning, just picks one side, regardless of statistics or facts and just stick to their guns and refuse to look at the issue with an open mind and discuss compromises or alternative solutions.
First thing that grinds my gears is how everyone on the anti-cull side state all these bogus statistics about plane crash deaths etc. they are not taking the statistics into context. IE how many people fly per year vs how many die, how many actual accidents there are ( most accidents resulting in high number of deaths etc). same goes for when people quote how many more people die in the east coast from attacks without looking at figures PRE netting/drumming vs figures POST netting/drumming. there's a clear display of the decrease in number of attacks and fatalities.
The next is when people blindly state these drums will bring in more sharks and cause more kills with absolutely no factual information to support their argument, when at the same time arguing there is no scientific proof that drumming will work. IF this was the case then there should be shark attack frenzies on the east side of the country as they've had these drums out for years (based on your hypotheses).
The third is when people quote how many million sharks die per year without taking into consideration this number is not from "shark culling with drum lines" but from Asian markets fishing for fins etc, nor do they take the species into consideration. on average 100mil per year are killed, this figure in reality varies from 70 - ~200 mill. from some reputable website i found online (can't remember the link) they stated on average 600 sharks in QLD are killed per year from these drums/nets. above someone stated 900 something. So lets take 1000 to be fair, 1000 per year over the stretch of NSW - FNQ. that's only a microscoping 0.001% of the 100mil that die per year, not even a spec in the great scheme of life. So the 100mill is supposedly ~7% of their population, granted it is above sustainable levels (4.9%). but to put it into perspective it is 0.001% of 7% of a population, a number so infinitesimally small it has no impact on the eco system.
Qld has a significantly larger area that's baited and netted (nets being far more notorious for by-catch etc). So, using basic estimations it can be said that 100 sharks per year is an OVER ESTIMATION of how many could die in WA. 0.0001% of 7% . Anyone that has mathematic abilities above being able to count to ten should be able to see that this is an insignificant number and does not warrant the titles MASSACRE, MASS CULL, EXTERMINATION OF A SPECIES and all other such extravagant answers. Yes it's not ideal but it's a far cry from what everyone is suggesting is happening".
Now people saying it's okay to fish for food but not okay to kill sharks you're not looking at a whole picture. Sharks (large ones) eat seals and other larger sea life, who in turn eat fish. reduced fish population = reduced larger sea life population = reduced food for sharks = sharks increased hunger. Yes this is completely over simplified but it's purely to make an understandable point. You can't go and massacre one thing without it affecting the other, people harping on about the ecosystem being destroyed by culling a few sharks and being completely anti-cull but at the same time doing nothing about the drastic overfishing occurring in the world. That argument folds both ways but people generally only want to accept the one side of the coin.
I'm not saying it's the perfect solution but in my opinion it is better than doing nothing. A protected species with growing numbers while it's food supply is rapidly decreasing is also a great imbalance in the marine system.
I understand that people should have their own opinions and support what they feel is right, and good on you for doing it. In saying that, I have to say, to both parties, to use your brains. Research and build your own database of information before jumping on a band wagon and believing what ever is the next biggest hype.
www.theaustralian.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes
ocean.nationalgeographic.com/ocean/critical-issues-overfishing/
www.ypte.org.uk/environmental/over-fishing/29
These are some things that are actually worth talking about and fighting against, yes fish is food but it is by no means a necessity, it's a luxury. Why aren't we all up in arms, calling each other names and getting hysterical about these more concerning topics? I read a statement somewhere that if trends continue fish stock will be completely depleted before the end of the century. What will all these innocent sharks eat then? The reason you don't see anyone having such a bitch and moan about it though is because everyone is far too busy enjoying sunday fish n chips to care.
Select to expand quotePeterc150 said..kiterboy said..Peterc150 said..
What are we doing about bees?
They kill more people than sharks each year in Australia. Should we cull them? Exterminate them? Nuke them? Make everyone wear bees suits? Put bee-proof netting around all our buildings?
Or take preventative measures so that people who get anaphylactic shock from bee stings avoid bees where possible and carry an epipen?
I think effective prevention measures are order of magnitude better than politically motivated ineffective attempts at "cure" (culling).
Where can I get a shark bite epipen?
Use Penthrane (Green stick) provided by Ambos if bitten. Won't cure anything but will help with the pain.
Prevention measures include:
* Early detection and alarm systems (such as tagging more sharks with radio trackers so they "Tweet" their location and can be tracked).
* Community education
* Increased scientific research
Prevention measures....most surfers are very well educated about the ocean and don't need community education. Im sorry mate but you sound like the gezzer off south park mmm sharks are bayyydd, They generally take lumps out of ya and no green pen will take that pain away.
Small bits of the ocean are our playground/domain, the same as large parts of the African bush became our home and the dark forests of Europe where we had to deal with ****in big bears and wolves. But there was no such thing as hippies then with **** all else to do.
Its a straight forward question society or environment ?? Personally I quite like people I have no sharks as friends.
Gotta say I was out at Dutchies yesterday arvo while the fisheries boat was checking the drumline located off Cott groyne and the idea they are baiting hooks to attract sharks into an area that is inside of where I normally kite out to was making me feel very uncomfortable.
I would think the main target of these baited hooks are GW's but apart from a few that roam around Perth waters the majority have followed the whale migration and are now probably hanging around off Bremer Bay or are in the Bight.
How about moving the drumlines further out rather than attracting these guys close to shore???
Can you jump them? Any good for sliders ?
Personally I'm sick to death of hearing from modernised born again environmental hippies who live in such a structured, safe environment now (after our ancestors learnt to control their predators as best they could) they can quote stats and dribble sh1t about ecological sustainability, while writing their messages on their iPads, phones, computers which they drive to work in their cars, then turn on the air conditioning while they type and eat their packaged meal bought from one of the two chain stores...
Which all equates to an enormous carbon footprint....
And have the absurd notion that every animal has as much right to survive as a human. Let's put you in a survival situation, maybe chuck ya kids and wife in their for good measure and then listen to you try and quote some theoretical bullsh1t, and dribble copious amounts of statistics,
Ps I have degree in biological and environmental science, extractive metallurgy, with a minor in advanced mathematics.
Spent 6 years listening to this absolute crap. Keep it real. Got to try everything and anything to at least give the impression that human lives are trying to be preserved.
Come on we all know these damn drum lines are an exercise in PR, so what's there to argue about for gods sake. But it is SOMETHING....
This morning, the Subiaco Post (page 3) reported a 2.9m tiger was caught off Cottesloe Beach about 5pm on Tuesday. The story said people on the beach watched the anaimal 'thrashing about' as attempts were made to measure it. The Fisheries boat floated within 200m of the beach during this, it said. No mention of whether the tiger was dumped there, dead or alive, or towed out to sea.
Select to expand quotealverstone said..
This morning, the Subiaco Post (page 3) reported a 2.9m tiger was caught off Cottesloe Beach about 5pm on Tuesday. The story said people on the beach watched as the anaimal 'thrashing about' as attempts were made to measure it. The Fisheries boat floated within 200m of the beach during this, it said. No mention of whether the tiger was dumped there, dead or alive, or towed out to sea.
as soon as the media hysteria stops, which it kinda has (really, they just cant be fcked heading out to sea each day), people forget about the bandwagon they were on and go back to their soy lattes and the issue whether to have 1 sugar or just half.. Until the next big thing.. lets talk about shale gas down south 
oh my, the outraaaaaage!!!
Select to expand quotedefault said...alverstone said..
This morning, the Subiaco Post (page 3) reported a 2.9m tiger was caught off Cottesloe Beach about 5pm on Tuesday. The story said people on the beach watched as the anaimal 'thrashing about' as attempts were made to measure it. The Fisheries boat floated within 200m of the beach during this, it said. No mention of whether the tiger was dumped there, dead or alive, or towed out to sea.
as soon as the media hysteria stops, which it kinda has (really, they just cant be fcked heading out to sea each day), people forget about the bandwagon they were on and go back to their soy lattes and the issue whether to have 1 sugar or just half.. Until the next big thing.. lets talk about shale gas down south oh my, the outraaaaaage!!!
Spot on brother!!!
Select to expand quotePeterc150 said..
What are we doing about bees?
They kill more people than sharks each year in Australia. Should we cull them? Exterminate them? Nuke them? Make everyone wear bees suits? Put bee-proof netting around all our buildings?
Or take preventative measures so that people who get anaphylactic shock from bee stings avoid bees where possible and carry an epipen?
I think effective prevention measures are order of magnitude better than politically motivated ineffective attempts at "cure" (culling).
Without bees there is no fruit or vegetables.
So all the vegetarians would die.....hmmm....not such a bad idea.
Select to expand quotewishy said..Peterc150 said..
What are we doing about bees?
They kill more people than sharks each year in Australia. Should we cull them? Exterminate them? Nuke them? Make everyone wear bees suits? Put bee-proof netting around all our buildings?
Or take preventative measures so that people who get anaphylactic shock from bee stings avoid bees where possible and carry an epipen?
I think effective prevention measures are order of magnitude better than politically motivated ineffective attempts at "cure" (culling).
Without bees there is no fruit or vegetables.
So all the vegetarians would die.....hmmm....not such a bad idea.
FYI: The kids at Beehive Montessori School near Leighton Beach have just set up beehives with the Dept of Ag to test if the mite that's killing bees across the world jumps ship from nearby Freo Port. On that basis, Cottesloe and Margaret River primary schools' kids should be allowed to have pet sharks with lasers on their heads ...
Results of WA drum lines so far: 66 sharks — but zero great whites — caught on drum lines in three weeks
Almost 75 per cent of the sharks caught on the baited hooks over the past three weeks were under the target three metre size.
Of the 49 undersized sharks, nine were found dead on the hooks and 40 released alive.Fisheries officers patrolling beaches in Perth and a contractor in the South-West killed 17 sharks longer than three metres.
According to the State Government’s SharkSmart website, tiger sharks “may only have been responsible for one shark bite in WA since 1980”.
Zero great white sharks — responsible for all but one of the fatal attacks in WA over the same period — have been caught and killed.
www.perthnow.com.au/news/australia/66-sharks-but-zero-great-whites-caught-on-drum-lines-in-three-weeks-ng-1a98e8174c3eaec928da223e32dd9dc1
