Just taking a smaller company like Airush as an example...( could have used another)
Wave....................Razor...................Lithium..................Varial X..................Varial Race
And Ozone,
REO......................C4.......................Catalyst...........................................................Edge
Which one missing ? .......
Thoughts and suggestions from another brand to fill this gap for your mainly used kite ( 11 to 9m )?
Why asking? I'm so stoked on the zephyr, the aspect totally agrees with me!
No way we need more models mate. Ozone do things their way, they don't follow the crowd and have been innovative since entering the water kite market. More sizes, yes, but definitely not more models.....
i see where you coming from epps, but i like to look at a brand that has all angles covered
wave reo
freestyle wake c4
allround catalyst
race edge
dogstyle ???????
Select to expand quoteKitepower Australia said..
No way we need more models mate. Ozone do things their way, they don't follow the crowd and have been innovative since entering the water kite market. More sizes, yes, but definitely not more models.....
Spent a lot of time on the cat and the edge and now the zephyr. I disagree (although Steve I do totally respect your opinion), there is too large a gap in aspect between the cat and the edge for freeriders who want some aspect. Thing is, I just dig ozone.
Select to expand quotecauncy said..
i see where you coming from epps, but i like to look at a brand that has all angles covered
wave reo
freestyle wake c4
allround catalyst
race edge
dogstyle ???????
Yep, agreed. Ozone is unreal. But I'm not liking this gap. For the freerider who wants more than the punchy grunt the new cat gives, the only option is a full blown race kite, now with race bridles to make it even more efficient!!
Perhaps if you would spend less time on the forum and more under your kite having a play tweaking them, you would fill this gap without having to buy another one.
maybe if they beefed up the edge a bit for the freeriders a bit, although superbly made they are a bit light and dont like a good spanking especially since 2011, its a fine line between performance and durability, this is where say north has it covered with the rebel, its a great performer but can take a flogging, but does it fly as well as an edge absoulutely not, i read a while back that mentioned ozone may have a 2 edge model one for the racer and one for the freerider reverting back to the extra strutts and with more reinforcements, boosting huge on a kite with dental floss as a bridle makes your arse tweek a bit more though
Select to expand quoteLivit said..
Perhaps if you would spend less time on the forum and more under your kite having a play tweaking them, you would fill this gap without having to buy another one.
Ha ha, I'm a teacher. I rarely miss a session of wind when its on. Those who know me would be laughing at your comment. I also have a very understanding wife. But fair cop though, I know where ya coming from Livit.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
Maybe just switch to airush then,,,,just as an example.
Been there, great kites have that ozone refined feel, but until they realise that you cannot get away with delayed steering through pulleys they will can't match ozone for what I want. Although the razor is especially direct given it has pulleys, but that's not how I ride.
Oh no, I'm an ozone fanatic! But...the discussion is worth while.
Select to expand quotecauncy said..
maybe if they beefed up the edge a bit for the freeriders a bit, although superbly made they are a bit light and dont like a good spanking especially since 2011, its a fine line between performance and durability, this is where say north has it covered with the rebel, its a great performer but can take a flogging, but does it fly as well as an edge absoulutely not, i read a while back that mentioned ozone may have a 2 edge model one for the racer and one for the freerider reverting back to the extra strutts and with more reinforcements, boosting huge on a kite with dental floss as a bridle makes your arse tweek a bit more though
An edge freeride model would solve all my issues cauncy. Hey man you serious about this epic quest. What month you thinking? Not sure I got a kite small enough for gero! Unless I get out my old Airush VX...
In the end the edge wing is still the most perfect wing I've flown, but hey it's worth exploring this I feel.
Select to expand quoteKitepower Australia said..
No way we need more models mate. Ozone do things their way, they don't follow the crowd and have been innovative since entering the water kite market. More sizes, yes, but definitely not more models.....
To start with, I really rate Ozone kites. Build quality, bar, lines, inflation system, kites designed so well they negate the need for pulleys..
But: "definitely not more models"?? That statement would have been better if followed up with 'IMHO' don't you think?
I've ridden the 2013 models, in 2013 there is definitely a wider gap between the Edge and Cat. I'll not waste time here explaining. If people can't tell by riding, they are not in a position to legitimately comment (IHMO)
Eppo has a good point. However, a lot of folks will not understand what he is getting at.
It's not just a case of "beefing up" an Edge either. (Road legal tyres & more impact resistance on an F1 car anyone?....) Don't fark with perfection. Can an Edge be 'detuned' with bridle positioning or does it require a change in AR and other canopy subtleties.. For clues, as Eppo has pointed out, look at the Zephyr.
Anyway, let's see what 2014 brings. Personally, I'd like to see the Cat moving a bit further out of C4 territory into 'Edgesville' 
Rest assured, if budget allows, Rob is the man to do it..
Edit: Or I could always buy my fantasy quiver of 17, 12, 9, & 7m Zephyr 
Over and out 
Select to expand quoteSubculture said..Kitepower Australia said..
No way we need more models mate. Ozone do things their way, they don't follow the crowd and have been innovative since entering the water kite market. More sizes, yes, but definitely not more models.....
To start with, I really rate Ozone kites. Build quality, bar, lines, inflation system, kites designed so well they negate the need for pulleys..
But: "definitely not more models"?? That statement would have been better if followed up with 'IMHO' don't you think?
I've ridden the 2013 models, in 2013 there is definitely a wider gap between the Edge and Cat. I'll not waste time here explaining. If people can't tell by riding, they are not in a position to legitimately comment (IHMO)
Eppo has a good point. However, a lot of folks will not understand what he is getting at.
It's not just a case of "beefing up" an Edge either. (Road legal tyres & more impact resistance on an F1 car anyone?....) Don't fark with perfection. Can an Edge be 'detuned' with bridle positioning or does it require a change in AR and other canopy subtleties.. For clues, as Eppo has pointed out, look at the Zephyr.
Anyway, let's see what 2014 brings. Personally, I'd like to see the Cat moving a bit further out of C4 territory into 'Edgesville' Rest assured, if budget allows, Rob is the man to do it..
Edit: Or I could always buy my fantasy quiver of 17, 12, 9, & 7m Zephyr
Over and out
if youve rode the 2013 models of the edge and not seen its lacking properties as a freeride kite then imho youve not rode it hard enough, as a race kite its superb but if you push it, it has its flaws, personally i like the way ozone have their kites categorised, some brands have too much interplay between models, take the norths great quality but imho the only model thats completely dedicated is the vegas, the rest is a mixed breed , same goes with most board models being freestyle/ wake/freeride/, wtf just make a specific board to its specific use, as for beefing up the edge the edge has actually been de beefed over time , its still a very similar canopy but much lighter, its been made that way to keep ahead in the race categorie not for the freeriders
Hey Cauncy no need to defend the edge so vigorously I agree it is a great wing. But it depends on each persona definition of freeride. I also agree with your opinion on the north kites. But I feel there is a large gap between the cats and the edge and the new cat sits too close to the C4. I think based on your premise their is too much of an overlap here. I'd like to see the cat move more towards or have a bit more aspect to it. In between the C4 and the edge. Not where it currently sits.
I ride the edge as hard as the next bloke, including looping and wave riding with it. But I do maintain their is a place and a market for something less than a full blown race kite. I'd like to see rob push the edge right into race or as far as it can go anyway given basic physics and provide a kick ass high performance freeride kite. The cat is nothing is the sort. And yet the edge is too full on in terms of aspect. But that's where I am at the moment. Again worth discussing. Respect your opinion.
Now what bit of ocean you thinking of transversing?
Select to expand quotecauncy said..
as for beefing up the edge the edge has actually been de beefed over time , its still a very similar canopy but much lighter, its been made that way to keep ahead in the race categorie not for the freeriders
I know that Cauncy. It's been lightened ever year along with dropping down from 7 struts etc.. It's a race kite, arguably the best.
I was (as was Eppo) referring to design not durability.
Do I think the Cat is too close to the C4? Yes, especially 2012 C4.
Was it good business sense to push 2013 C4 the direction they did? Yes.
Would Cat sell better if closer to the Edge? Who knows.
However from a 'freeride' perspective - sometimes current trends dictate where they shouldn't... (there's cryptic for ya...)
Far be it from me to tell kite designers/companies their business though..
Again, I understand where Eppo is coming from.
BTW, with a simple bridle mod, they could have effectively two Edges.. Just sayin...
That's what's good about this time of year, we wait and see
Reo................... cat................2011 c4............ edge
That's what the old c4 used to do for me. sit in between cat and edge. It was a great kite before they changed it in 2013.
For me the perfect 10m size kite would be a morph between edge and old c4.
Personally, Selfishly I think ozone made a mistake killing the c4 for freeride use. But let us see what they do for the next batch of kites.
I'm a diehard ozone fan. Been on ozone since 2006.
PS the new flysurfer looks interesting. flysurfer.com/project/cronix/
probably sits in that gap your talking about eppo.
Hey eppo if your looking for a high aspect kite as an alternative to the edge that flies more with the free ride character of the zeph give the Plynn Fury a demo avail in 6,7,9,11,13 and 13,15,17,19 fury light ,I was out a couple of months ago with a guy on a 17 zeph and he took my 15 light for a blast,about an hour later he came in and was blown away by the kite ,the latest models have just been released and I think you'll be very surprised when you try one,well worth the demo although it sounds like you've got too many kites already.
Basically Peter Lynn have done what your asking of the edge/zeph they have the fury light race/free ride range, and a beefed up fury range in the smaller sizes that are built to take a hammering without compromising on performance.
Maybe ozone will introduce a similar range in the future of smaller zephs
But would be great if you could get a demo of the Furys as would like to hear your take on the kites having spent so much time on the edge and zeph.
Select to expand quoteSubculture said..Kitepower Australia said..
No way we need more models mate. Ozone do things their way, they don't follow the crowd and have been innovative since entering the water kite market. More sizes, yes, but definitely not more models.....
To start with, I really rate Ozone kites. Build quality, bar, lines, inflation system, kites designed so well they negate the need for pulleys..
But: "definitely not more models"?? That statement would have been better if followed up with 'IMHO' don't you think?
I've ridden the 2013 models, in 2013 there is definitely a wider gap between the Edge and Cat. I'll not waste time here explaining. If people can't tell by riding, they are not in a position to legitimately comment (IHMO)
Eppo has a good point. However, a lot of folks will not understand what he is getting at.
It's not just a case of "beefing up" an Edge either. (Road legal tyres & more impact resistance on an F1 car anyone?....) Don't fark with perfection. Can an Edge be 'detuned' with bridle positioning or does it require a change in AR and other canopy subtleties.. For clues, as Eppo has pointed out, look at the Zephyr.
Anyway, let's see what 2014 brings. Personally, I'd like to see the Cat moving a bit further out of C4 territory into 'Edgesville' Rest assured, if budget allows, Rob is the man to do it..
Edit: Or I could always buy my fantasy quiver of 17, 12, 9, & 7m Zephyr
Over and out
Definitely IMHO, I'm just a brand rep and no way am in charge of anything to do with design. But you guys are, and for sure I'll be taking these comments to Ozone and believe me they do listen, and especially to Australian riders because we have a long season and many of us ride a hell of a lot. Haha a Zephyr quiver!
Select to expand quoteSubculture said..cauncy said..
as for beefing up the edge the edge has actually been de beefed over time , its still a very similar canopy but much lighter, its been made that way to keep ahead in the race categorie not for the freeriders
I know that Cauncy. It's been lightened ever year along with dropping down from 7 struts etc.. It's a race kite, arguably the best.
I was (as was Eppo) referring to design not durability.
Do I think the Cat is too close to the C4? Yes, especially 2012 C4.
Was it good business sense to push 2013 C4 the direction they did? Yes.
Would Cat sell better if closer to the Edge? Who knows.
However from a 'freeride' perspective - sometimes current trends dictate where they shouldn't... (there's cryptic for ya...)
Far be it from me to tell kite designers/companies their business though..
Again, I understand where Eppo is coming from.
BTW, with a simple bridle mod, they could have effectively two Edges.. Just sayin...
That's what's good about this time of year, we wait and see
Yeh agreed I'm not questioning rob from ozone at all, he's a genius. Nor do I know sh1t about kite design and running a successful international kite business!
My post is still offered with most utmost respect for ozone and their kites. Its funny that plummett mentions the older C4s, while I'm asking for more edge....it seems we all have out little pet likes and they can't make kites for every single riders idiosyncrasies.
We will see.
Radman as far as the fury goes, a mate of mine overlaid his fury over an edge of the same size and lets just say there was little edge canopy showing underneath...very suss...lol.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Thing is they did need a specific and full blown C kite though...not sure Andy Yates would have liked the old C4, lol. Nor the hardcore wake style rides. Just us finicky freeriders, man we are a pain in the ass...lol
Ps my bro has a 2012 c4 8m I will have to get on it a bit more.
I don't care about the wakestylers!!! I only selfishly care about myself.
Are there really more wake stylers than freeriders? surely not?
Definitely agree the edge needs more sizes. I have a 9 and 11 m but it would be better with an 8m instead of the 9m.
Whats the difference with the 2013 C4?
I have been riding Ozones from day dot, I think I was one of the first handful to get the instinct from KP with they first came out.
Right now I have a 11m Sport +, '12 Edge 9m and a '07 Sport 7m
Im heading to KP today ( Expect me in the shop after lunch steve) to replace the trusty old 7m, My 11m sport + is now useless since I got the 9m edge, The edge is a better ride in light winds over the truck of an 11m the sport + is (Im 65kg wet and ride a 125)
I want a kite with near all of the grunt of the edge, but some more depower of the older ozone kite for when the wind gets over 20's Ill ride my 9m edge into the 20's but on my small frame I have to stop throwing the kite around and watch where I put it.
Most other kites bore me now I have owned the edge for a while, I love the sheer power of the thing.
I was planning on getting an 8m 2013 C4 today, but this thread makes me need to know more about it. Damn you all!
Select to expand quoteNthScb said..
Definitely agree the edge needs more sizes. I have a 9 and 11 m but it would be better with an 8m instead of the 9m.
I predict and its only a prediction that given the ever increasing market share of ozone and i feel edge riders in general as the market has matured, that there could be more edge sizes in 2014.
Select to expand quoteMacca Wollongong said..
Whats the difference with the 2013 C4?
I have been riding Ozones from day dot, I think I was one of the first handful to get the instinct from KP with they first came out.
Right now I have a 11m Sport +, '12 Edge 9m and a '07 Sport 7m
Im heading to KP today ( Expect me in the shop after lunch steve) to replace the trusty old 7m, My 11m sport + is now useless since I got the 9m edge, The edge is a better ride in light winds over the truck of an 11m the sport + is (Im 65kg wet and ride a 125)
I want a kite with near all of the grunt of the edge, but some more depower of the older ozone kite for when the wind gets over 20's Ill ride my 9m edge into the 20's but on my small frame I have to stop throwing the kite around and watch where I put it.
Most other kites bore me now I have owned the edge for a while, I love the sheer power of the thing.
I was planning on getting an 8m 2013 C4 today, but this thread makes me need to know more about it. Damn you all!
Agreed about getting bored after appreciating the edges power. Not sure I'd define it as grunt though. Smooth and powerful, the power generated by an efficient wing developing immense apparent wind.
The new C4....there is a huge thread on it in the gear review section, have a read. I'm sure Steve will set you right anyhow given you describe what exactly you are looking for. Good luck and let us know what you get!
Select to expand quoteMacca Wollongong said..
Whats the difference with the 2013 C4?
I have been riding Ozones from day dot, I think I was one of the first handful to get the instinct from KP with they first came out.
Right now I have a 11m Sport +, '12 Edge 9m and a '07 Sport 7m
Im heading to KP today ( Expect me in the shop after lunch steve) to replace the trusty old 7m, My 11m sport + is now useless since I got the 9m edge, The edge is a better ride in light winds over the truck of an 11m the sport + is (Im 65kg wet and ride a 125)
I want a kite with near all of the grunt of the edge, but some more depower of the older ozone kite for when the wind gets over 20's Ill ride my 9m edge into the 20's but on my small frame I have to stop throwing the kite around and watch where I put it.
Most other kites bore me now I have owned the edge for a while, I love the sheer power of the thing.
I was planning on getting an 8m 2013 C4 today, but this thread makes me need to know more about it. Damn you all!
look at the 7 edge ive been on the 8 cat as my high wind kite for a few years, very happy with the change
definitely agree with KP comments regarding size range, very hard to build a balanced quiver with only even sizes in the cats & reos e.g. my preferred choice would be 6, 9, 12 and my mate who weighs 7 kg more would prefer 7, 10, in the waves. this is about the only thing that ozone don't do well. ( not relevant to your topic eppo but if this info is going to be fed back to ozone)
hey eppo how cheap are you getting kites to dribble on about ozone this this long, seriously mate if your not getting kick backs you should be
Select to expand quoteterryzarmzof said...
hey eppo how cheap are you getting kites to dribble on about ozone this this long, seriously mate if your not getting kick backs you should be
No kickbacks mate. My intentions are totally pure here. I have held my tongue for a long time now ha e been thinking like this for a while. Especially after spending time on the zephyr then getting back on the zephyr. Aspect to me equals performance well performance I dig. I thought the new cat would bridge a gap between the edge and their lineup. I think the gap has increased especially with the new C4 for us small population of freeriders. (Sarcasm of course).
Select to expand quoteeppo said...terryzarmzof said...
hey eppo how cheap are you getting kites to dribble on about ozone this this long, seriously mate if your not getting kick backs you should be
No kickbacks mate. My intentions are totally pure here. I have held my tongue for a long time now ha e been thinking like this for a while. Especially after spending time on the zephyr then getting back on the edge. Aspect to me equals performance well performance I dig. I thought the new cat would bridge a gap between the edge and their lineup. I think the gap has increased especially with the new C4 for us small population of freeriders. (Sarcasm of course).
Don't think rob probably gives a sh1t what eppo thinks anyhow and not should he. He has engineered some exquisite kites I got no runs on the board on that.
