Elephant in the room!
A privately owned kite club has started offering insurance cheaper than the kitesurfing organisation.
Is it better or worse, for us and for the sport?
Is it a competitive or complimentary situation?
PKR Club is not privately owned.
The club is incorporated as a non for profit sports club.
The club have followed all the directions provided by DSR to get this far. http://www.clubsonline.dsr.wa.gov.au/
When the matter of insurance was reviewed, all options were considered.
VI Group (the broker used by KA) was also contacted to provide a quote but did not.
In the end we opted for a flexible and competitive rate with a high quality local AUS provider, who are also used by other Australian wind sport associations.
It would be worth while comparing to other memberships ( Windsurfing, Sup, Surfing)
windsurfingwa.tidyclub.com/public/memberships/new
supwa.tidyclub.com/public/memberships/new
www.surfingwaonline.com.au/apply-membership.php
I have been a member of waksa (until injury last year) and have enjoyed some of the events (wave comps and l2l) they have allowed me to enter. I think the most important thing is to have insured kiters on the water in case the unfortunate happens. Pkr sounds like it offers affordable insurance for the average bloke who has no interest in kitestock freestyle comps or wave comps. This argument has come up before where people dont want to pay for the events and just want insurance and have asked waksa for an insurance only option. Well I guess here it is!
I have always joined waksa, not so that I can enter events ( not interested in competing ) but so I can support my sport . Waksa fight on my behalf to keep the councils and various nut jobs from shutting down our access to our local beaches!
I love my kitesurfing and I can't thank these guys enough for being the voice to keep us all on the water
You won't see me standing in line waiting to go on the water to show judges how good I am, but I'll always have a waksa tag hanging off my harness!!
Knowing that I have some sort of insurance is just a bonus.
Waksa's key role, functions & success are undeniable and without question.
But Daggy do you not see a role for club helping develop the sport?
There is so much on offer in WA to help club grow and also support the local communities, in conjunction with the state associations, grow the sport.
Department of Sport & Rec have entire programmes and funding specifically to this effect, also the councils have additional support measures in place which many other clubs take advantage of.
There is a big difference between a club and an association, each has a their own specific & important role to play.
I guess the situation can be compared to sailing in a way. In that the clubs organise races etc and yachting federation looks after administration etc.
The system works with both entities in unison.
This is funny because I literally just posted a thread about the insurance certificate of currency on the AKSA website being out of date, and I guess I'll ask here aswell, does anybody know if its been updated.
Association Strategy (from websites):
Insurance
promote safe kite surfing practices
grow kitesurfing
run events for WAKSA members
+ maintain beach access for Western Australian kite surfers
Club Strategy (from website)
Insurance
promote safe kite surfing practices
grow kitesurfing
run events for PKR members
It does appear that the club has gone to a lot of effort to 90% duplicate of the association does?
Promoting safe Kiting:
We have made a firm commitment to Department of Transport, Surf Life Saving and WAKSA, that the club will to promote all the frameworks (http://www.waksa.org.au/safety/kiteboardingbesafe) that they have developed with the Kiteboarding safe campaign which was to ensure all agencies including new clubs, work from the same page and promote the same message.
We have leverage all the new frameworks for our operating standards.
Growing Kiteboard racing
PKR is racing focused, and would like to see more juniors, more ladies and more kiters enjoying the racing aspect of kiting.
Running Events:
Thats what the club was created to do, promote and create more racing days in the calendar.
Insurance:
To run an event a club need to supply a Certificate of Currency to Department of Transport, and the Council. For this the club needs insurance.
When a club takes out insurance for its events (which is not cheap), it costs no extra to have those members covered for non event days.
You are correct,there has been a great deal of effort, its takes many months, hundreds of hours of effort and several thousands of $ from peoples owns pockets to put a club in place.
PKR is not the only club that that has been launched in WA.
Expect to see more clubs forming (Clubs & Groups waksa.createsend.com/t/ViewEmailArchive/r/32043FA8D9EF13E82540EF23F30FEDED/C67FD2F38AC4859C/ )
Just seems like you're trying to re-invent the wheel....or undermine the existing club.
Select to expand quotePKR said..
You are correct,there has been a great deal of effort, its takes many months, hundreds of hours of effort and several thousands of $ from peoples owns pockets to put a club in place.
wasted effort, wasted time and wasted money.
To do what ? Save a few kiters who arent prepared to support their sport $65 a year.
If kiters arent prepared to support their sport with a legitimate & recognised national & state representative body then we all better get prepared to travel to allocated "kite beaches".
Which wont include metro or downwinders through any populated areas.
Its a difference of $65 a year FFS.
PKR Club could have been set up without all the effort, time & money AND WOULDNT HAVE TO CHARGE EXTRA ON TOP OF THE MEMBERSHIP FOR ENTRY IN EACH ORGANISED EVENT.
Im sure when it fails someone will see the sense in jumping onboard with WAKSA to put Kite Racing on a solid footing - statewide & nationally.
I was desperately trying to keep my head down. Sorry to those who dont want to hear it ... BUT ... I cant help myself.
This really P1SSES me off.
Hundreds of volunteers have put in 1000s of hours to develop state KSA's & to pull a recognised national federation together. OK there have been lots of mistakes and lots of criticisms along the path of our initial 12 years of development. (show me one established volunteer organisation that hasnt been down the same path during their developing years).
But after 12 years WAKSA & the other state orgs - through the new KA federation - are now preparing for NSO recognition status.
This has been a primary and essential goal of organised kiting since day dot.
Within the structure of the KA federation there is not only provision for local kite beach clubs and special interest groups but a desperate need for for these entities to exist so that the KSA's & KA can operate to full potential.
It has been a long standing goal to get these local beach groups and specialist interest groups up & running. As always with volunteer orgs limited people & limited time has precluded any serious development in these directions. This doesnt mean its not essential.
Within the framework & member funding of the KA federation special interest groups like the 'kite racers' can be pulled together as a club with little effort, very little time & at no cost of any individuals funding. All it needs to make it happen under the far more legitimate & meaningful national body is the enthusiasm of a few willing volunteers.
If PKR Club is charging nothing on top of an 'at cost' insurance premium for membership then where will funds come from for race bouys, GPS's, safety boats, flags, public signage, website costs, event permit fees, membership tags, race shirts, 2way radios etc etc etc. My guess is members will be signing up for the at cost membership then will be hit with entry fees for every event. This will end up costing any regular enthusiast way more than the extra $65 it would cost if events were run under the umbrella organisation which has been purpose built specifically to cater for this 3rd tier level of our sport.
RANT over. (well almost)
(sort of makes me think of a keen high jumper setting up a 'reject shop' level 'high jump club' just for the parents who arent prepared to pay the 'Little Aths' annual fee)
No Doubt PKR has cost somebody/people a lot of time and effort and most likely cash if the cost to join is about what the insurance costs, that takes some commitment not found in many people, and there is no doubt the world would be a better place with more people wiling to put in the extra mile.
And there will be many hundreds of hours year after year
I do wonder if PKR if mostly for the racers and to promote events, would that same level of commitment and time had been better put to use from within WAKSA were there are surely already resources in place for dealing with all the things the club wishes to accomplish.
While there are a few who complain about insurance costs I am sure their collective WAKSA membership would not add up to what it would cost to setup and run a club just for cheaper insurance.
Our sport along with just about every other sport has many participants that are just care free and do what they want when they want, these people will most likely never join any organisation just for insurance so the argument about WAKSA being to expensive for just insurance would surely be null an void as these people never bother to look what options they have, it just aint in their thought process.
All events need volunteers, sailing, football, surfing, pushbike etc that aren't participating to make them happen.
All events and clubs cost money, this has to come from somewhere, membership, sponsors, fund raisers, government grants, club membership is used to pay for most things but often the volunteers reward is seeing the organisation raise funds from events to help keep it sustainable into the future and do things better.
Coming from NSW and having been to a few WA events the yellow shirts are certainly appreciated.
Are there more volunteers out there not doing a job for waksa willing to assist PKR?
Will some waksa helpers also help out PKR?
Will PKR align with sailing clubs and use their support network?
will there be a divide between waksa and PKR
Will they be bidding to run events 
Will waksa waive the waksa membership for their events if you have somebody else s insurance
(the membership covers more than insurance)So many questions, Big Big job.
But most importantly
Will friendships be tested
Hopefully not as surely all concerned have the sports best interest in mind
Select to expand quotepuppetonastring said..
This really P1SSES me off.
lol.
Crew are just starting up a club, ok.
What's the big deal ?
I thought WAKSA was an advocate of kite clubs and groups engagement ?
It says so on the WAKSA website.
Anyway, this PKR thing is probably just a scam with some business dude making cash on the sale of gear.
You know, it's nearly always about the money.
*Wink.
WAKSA has done nothing for Perth WA kite racing - infact WAKSA has had in the past the opinion kite racing is a waste of time was its key events take up 99% of its time i.e. kite stock etc etc and fair enough ( I decided at that time to get off WAKSA committee because of this )- Perth kite racing only exists as a result of a few hardcore & organised racers over the last 4/5 years and the Guru Tim Turner and the L2L race. The l2L race got me personally into kite racing.
Ive been on the WAKSA committee for 4 years over the last 14 years so have some insight- they do a great job at what they do and can find time to do as all of the committee are over worked and under loved.
A WA Kite racing club is the only way forward - FAB 
If you want something do it yourself
P.S yes running any kite race requires insurance, approvals, etc etc we have been running kite racing series under yacht club insurances in Perth for the last 12 months - The WA race club just makes this easier for use to use different race courses around Perth and not get locked into 1 or 2 ****ty locations as previous years have forced on us.
Thats it negative dudes - if you want to know more about racing come along and feel the RUSH -
Phil you are correct, there are provisions within the KAL constitution to for clubs and to help those clubs with insurance.
But only sanctioned events ensure the members are covered.
We are a very new club, and are working hard with many organisations & other clubs of various sorts locally to get new events into the calendar. For this we needed agility to show we have insurance for the events we are proposing so that they could take us seriously. It would take additional time to then go back and get each and every event sanctioned. This is the insurance options we have chosen for the moment, and we relook it again at the end of the year.
It costs money to setup a club any way you go about it. (The club would also like to have some gear of its own, markers, radios, tshirts, maybe even some gear to help develop new racers before they buy their own gear etc, and dont forget about event application fees to councils and DOT etc) For this we do need to charge a fee.
WAKSA are working to help clubs and sustainable systems will no doubt be put in place in the near future. For now the club does need to charge a fee to stand on its own to feet, no grants, no funding sources no members fees were in place to pay all the upfront costs to start the club.
We want to ensure their is no split, no friendships are tested, and no fleets are split.
As such please see the membership page,
if you are a current and active member of WAKSA there will be only a $20 fee to join the racing club
AND for this next week the first 50 can join for $0.
https://perthkiteracing.tidyclub.com/public/memberships/new
Hopefully that settles that, and we can now get back to focusing on exciting new events.
No harm in being a member of both. You lads need to take a chill pill.
It's a step forward not backwards.
Select to expand quoteJohnnoKeys said..
WAKSA has done nothing for Perth WA kite racing - infact WAKSA has had in the past the opinion kite racing is a waste of time was its key events take up 99% of its time i.e. kite stock etc etc and fair enough ( I decided at that time to get off WAKSA committee because of this )- Perth kite racing only exists as a result of a few hardcore & organised racers over the last 4/5 years and the Guru Tim Turner and the L2L race. The l2L race got me personally into kite racing.
Ive been on the WAKSA committee for 4 years over the last 14 years so have some insight- they do a great job at what they do and can find time to do as all of the committee are over worked and under loved.
A WA Kite racing club is the only way forward - FAB
If you want something do it yourself
P.S yes running any kite race requires insurance, approvals, etc etc we have been running kite racing series under yacht club insurances in Perth for the last 12 months - The WA race club just makes this easier for use to use different race courses around Perth and not get locked into 1 or 2 ****ty locations as previous years have forced on us.
Thats it negative dudes - if you want to know more about racing come along and feel the RUSH -
I hear ya
Select to expand quotewaveslave said..
lol. Crew are just starting up a club, ok. What's the big deal ?
Thankyou waveslave, may your attitude pervade the naysayers.
Select to expand quoteJohnnoKeys said..
WAKSA has done nothing for Perth WA kite racing -
If you want something do it yourself
No argument Johnno. In fact WAKSA has never done ANYTHING for anything to do with kiting that hasnt been a particular interest of those who have given their time to WAKSA.
There is a mountain of work that has to be covered by the core c'tee. All the background boring detail that MUST be covered before there's time for optional activities like events and comps etc.
My beef with the PKR Club is that those with all the spare time and enthusiasm for racing could have simply jumped on board the official AUS kite org and done EXACTLY the same as has been done far easier, in far less time, at far less cost, with far more validity and with a bank of resources already available to them. The whole reason for spending 12 years getting the KA federation into shape to be the representative body for all the various interests of kiting was to cater for special interest groups like kite racers - a very small minority which should take full advantage of all that national sporting org offers.
No need for new websites, incorporation costs & all the hassles involved. No need for personal $ outlay for those prepared to put in the enthusiasm. BUT whats most important is that by being part of the system we have built for you you are bolstering the organisation which is purpose built to service the need.
OK the existing c'tee may not have time to put in to cover all the logistics of a specific special interest group but they are there & available to cover most of the background stuff. WAKSA is also perfectly positioned to promote & provide volunteer support on the day for the running of any event (prime eg L2L & Russells wave comps).
As kiters we are an incredibly small and insignificant part of society. To have the clout we need to have an effect in the most important elements of our sport - ie beach access; a credible voice on regulations, the right to run events in public areas etc etc - depends on all with the enthusiasm to push toe sport (in any direction) to be a part of the whole.
It simply makes no sense at all for those with the time & enthusiasm to develop our sport to do it outside of the structure thats been built to support any/all area/s of kiting interest.
Totally counter-productive as well as being half-arsed at its very best. And thats regardless of the motives & massive effort of those involved in developing ANY discipline of kiting.
Im not here to knock the organisers of PKR Club (those involved know that). Its taken a huge effort and a massive level of commitment. But as it stands its misplaced. Far more destructive than constructive. We need coordinated unity - not a splintered group of messy special interest groups that outsiders find confusing when 'kiting' issues arise.
If anyone out there has a passion for any area of kiting interest then contact WAKSA (or your own local KSA) and find out for yourself how much simpler & effective it can be if you work within the establishment.
Local Beach User Groups are the core of the interest groups WAKSA is super keen to assist but no less enthusiasm will be forthcoming for any special interest group that would like to organise their own activities.
Select to expand quoteJohnnoKeys said..
WAKSA has done nothing for Perth WA kite racing - infact WAKSA has had in the past the opinion kite racing is a waste of time was its key events take up 99% of its time i.e. kite stock etc etc and fair enough ( I decided at that time to get off WAKSA committee because of this )- Perth kite racing only exists as a result of a few hardcore & organised racers over the last 4/5 years and the Guru Tim Turner and the L2L race. The l2L race got me personally into kite racing.
Ive been on the WAKSA committee for 4 years over the last 14 years so have some insight- they do a great job at what they do and can find time to do as all of the committee are over worked and under loved.
A WA Kite racing club is the only way forward - FAB
If you want something do it yourself
P.S yes running any kite race requires insurance, approvals, etc etc we have been running kite racing series under yacht club insurances in Perth for the last 12 months - The WA race club just makes this easier for use to use different race courses around Perth and not get locked into 1 or 2 ****ty locations as previous years have forced on us.
Thats it negative dudes - if you want to know more about racing come along and feel the RUSH -
Sorry Johnno
You say "WAKSA has done nothing for Perth WA kite racing" I don't think that is quite right...
My eyes may have been a bit red and dusty but did I not see DREW from WAKSA out there busting his b@lls at Oceanics, Lighthouse to Lighton and Ocean Classic? You may not have seen him, as he was running around like a blue @ss fly getting things done.. Like many other members of a volunteer group, like many others who have worked hard to get their own state up and running, who hold events, with out any thanks or reward OR even participation in the event. Great you 'Hardcore' riders have set up a club and get the ball rolling, as there are so many great parts of our sport, be it racing, waves, or just mad kooking it up. Good luck with the club I look forward to coming down for a race, you are right, the team is over worked and underloved and best of luck to you and Andy with the club.
People don't forget its just a club of guys who love to race, its not a new state body, but in saying that don't forget all the hard work that has been put into growing and developing our sport into bigger and better things, that one day maybe recognised for more than just big airs and damage
Hi Picker - I'm talking real racing - Formula & Foil board style weekly racing its all yacht club based and should be until now. They are truly niche sports.
- Drew & the WAKSA team are great and amazing and love the guys - and true they do support and help run the L2L - The Ledge to Lancelin & Oceanics and this is well acknowledged.
The Perth racing club is about the every day racing scene week to week and running world class training racing days so local riders can go to international IKA events and be competitive. Not about big yearly events - WAKSA isn't about developing and running kite racing and never should be - IMO as long as The kite kite club is WASKA associated both are amazing for a niche part of the great sport of kiting.
Puppet we all know you the good of kiting on your mind in this case though I feel you are not on the money - I reckon just let the racing guys alone and let us rip up the ocean and river as we do from 5 to 30 knots every day - If anyone wants to get into the vibe just rock on down - join the club and you will be in the loop as the where everyone is training that day.
Thats it for me I'm off for a race kite on the river with the other 10 racers who chat every day on messenger and meet up and train together as the WA kite racing team - 90% of us are off to Sail Townsville in 2 weeks as part of the IKA world kite racing series. Funny I', sure 99.9% of Perth kiters and WAKSA have no idea this event is even on. The Perth kite racing club & its members are all going to Townsville.
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Select to expand quotebardunyah said..
Elephant in the room!
A privately owned kite club has started offering insurance cheaper than the kitesurfing organisation.
Is it better or worse, for us and for the sport?
Is it a competitive or complimentary situation?
Insurance cheaper than the kitesurfing organisations,,, sound good to me.
A bit of competition for them might keep high insurance costs down for the average low income earner who isnt interested in competing in comps to progress/increase kiting
, dont know why any kiter would want to increase numbers/promote kiting at their local to make more crowds and more beach closures??
, but just wants the insurance and enjoy being covered when out enjoying the ocean so they have the peace of mind their family can still have a roof over their heads and food on the table if daddy hurts himself and cant work for a few months.
A bit of healthy price wars between insurance companies usually means more affordable premiums for the consumer. Hopefully many more insurance companies jump on board to cover us with out promoting or increasing numbers out in the water like all the shops who sponsor and support it want.
Sorry to burst a bubble here but the insurance is to prevent having your house taken away from you through your negligence while kiting, not to put food on your table or pay your mortgage during injury.
As far as competition for insurance, they aren't falling over themselves to cover what they regard as a high risk category. The best way to get lower insurance premiums is to spred it out over more members sharing the load.
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
, but just wants the insurance and enjoy being covered when out enjoying the ocean so they have the peace of mind their family can still have a roof over their heads and food on the table if daddy hurts himself and cant work for a few months.
A bit of healthy price wars between insurance companies usually means more affordable premiums for the consumer. Hopefully many more insurance companies jump on board to cover us with out promoting or increasing numbers out in the water like all the shops who sponsor and support it want.
I think it is great that there is a new club starting up, we should be embracing the brotherhood of kiting not nitpicking amongst ourselves. But......insurance should be held by the governing body and be an umbrella for all other clubs to come under. With more members the cost of insurance should make it easier and cheaper to operate.
I am glad there a bunch of guys putting in the hard yards getting things done behind the scene, well done and thanks.
PUBLIC RETRACTION..... otherwise known as pulling your head in.
My abject apologies to the PKR organisers for my over-the-top reaction to launch of the club.
It appears there are issues to be contended with in achieving the aims of the Perth Kite Racers of which I was totally unaware. There is also a longer term aim of the PKR organisers to fully support KA & the individual state KSA's which KA represents. A motivation I fully applaud.
The fact that it wasnt as simple as my previous posts suggested for this particular kiting group to work directly under the WAKSA umbrella is an issue which needs to be addressed in another place.
The prime movers behind the setting up of the PKR Club are well known to me - to the degree I would count several of them very good friends. Whilst my comments may, in part, have presented as personal abuse I am grateful that the guys have taken it as expression of frustration on my part. Thankfully it would appear that friendships have not been compromised.
It is obvious from any approach that the PKR Crew have done an exceptionally thorough, professional job in setting up the club. The fact that it was so well done; and so well presented; is a big part of the reason for my disappointment that the effort and outcome wasnt presented as a new sector of WAKSA services to its members.
I wish you guys well. Thanks.
