Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
So you think I need a fleet of the $4 300 cars?
No. I think you need to go back to primary school and study arithmetic.
Select to expand quoteUncleBob said..
Ah, the question was, would you buy this car for $5600.00 AUD so you gold purchase would be 2.1875 ounces. 
No. It would be 21.875 ounces. You need to study arithmetic too.
www.carsales.com.au/cars/van-bodystyle/electric-fueltype
somthing similar is already here.
I did look at it for a work vehicle (the idea was to charge it on the job site and use the builders power) but the figures just didn't work the battery was not going to last long enough to justify the cost, now I drive an old deisel (not a Toyota) that gets really good km/l
Select to expand quotecisco said..UncleBob said..
Ah, the question was, would you buy this car for $5600.00 AUD so you gold purchase would be 2.1875 ounces.
No. It would be 21.875 ounces. You need to study arithmetic too. Perhaps literacy is not your high point, the original question was would you buy it for $5600 AUD, that is five thousand six hundred australian dollars, if you can purchase 21.875 ounces of gold for that figure I want in.
I beg my pardon. My brain added a zero to the figure. 
I would still buy gold rather than an EV.
What about this for around town?
No licence required. (Quadracycle)
Not made in China...
Select to expand quoteGavGav said..
What about this for around town?
No licence required. (Quadracycle)
Not made in China...
That is fair comparison.
Now lets people to decide which one they may want to purchase. GM or Mini Frog ?
Here is another one, this time made by Google.
Also doesn't require driving licence, as don't have even steering wheel or pedals.
self driving is the furure!
Small cars are the slowest growth segment of the car market.
Cars are getting bigger not smaller.
The environment is forgotten when people buy cars.
Select to expand quotebjw said..
Small cars are the slowest growth segment of the car market.
Cars are getting bigger not smaller.
The environment is forgotten when people buy cars.
right, mayve city designers could help to make right decision by providing special roads, paths for ultra small vehicles? Engineered with shortcuts, escalators, that could get us quickly around the city avoiding traffic jams? Multi store parking lots, like pallet rackings, automated.500kg, 2meters length vehicles stored like pallets in warehouse, or transported by tramway and fast rail around city or between?
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..bjw said..
Small cars are the slowest growth segment of the car market.
Cars are getting bigger not smaller.
The environment is forgotten when people buy cars.
right, mayve city designers could help to make right decision by providing special roads, paths for ultra small vehicles? Engineered with shortcuts, escalators, that could get us quickly around the city avoiding traffic jams? Multi store parking lots, like pallet rackings, automated.500kg, 2meters length vehicles stored like pallets in warehouse, or transported by tramway and fast rail around city or between?
Thats a good idea but i think in the end it would turn out to be more hassle than its worth.
Electric vehicles for the general population is probably the most nonsensical idea around today.
So we all want to be moralistic, environmentalist, save the planet and yadda, yadda, yadda.
Ask yourself the question. What are the naturally occurring forms of energy?????
Electrical energy is low on the list. Lightning and static is all I can think of.
Heat energy we get from the Sun daily, not nightly.
Chemical energy is abundance all around us and can be harnessed in a multidue of ways but is dormant until we convert it into another form of energy by mixing one chemical with another or by applying heat energy to a chemical energy such as burning a fuel.
The basic law of physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Do I need to repeat that or have you all got it?????????????
It can be transformed from one to another, efficiently by lighting a gas stove and getting instant heat or inefficiently by turning on your electric stove. Consider how the electricty gets to your stove.
So you want to have an electric powered vehicle so that you can feel that you are environmentaly responsible and virtue signal to your friends what a cunny funt you are.
Where is your electricity coming from?? Are you on a daily delivery of a lightning bolt??
You are so airy fairy Macro. Get real.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
Electric vehicles for the general population is probably the most nonsensical idea around today.
So we all want to be moralistic, environmentalist, save the planet and yadda, yadda, yadda.
Ask yourself the question. What are the naturally occurring forms of energy?????
Electrical energy is low on the list. Lightning and static is all I can think of.
Heat energy we get from the Sun daily, not nightly.
Chemical energy is abundance all around us and can be harnessed in a multidue of ways but is dormant until we convert it into another form of energy by mixing one chemical with another or by applying heat energy to a chemical energy such as burning a fuel.
The basic law of physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Do I need to repeat that or have you all got it?????????????
It can be transformed from one to another, efficiently by lighting a gas stove and getting instant heat or inefficiently by turning on your electric stove. Consider how the electricty gets to your stove.
So you want to have an electric powered vehicle so that you can feel that you are environmentaly responsible and virtue signal to your friends what a cunny funt you are.
Where is your electricity coming from?? Are you on a daily delivery of a lightning bolt??
You are so airy fairy Macro. Get real.
Hey Cisco ...... have you ever tried using an induction stove? Instant heat, just like gas, but it comes from electricity.
The only good reason not to buy an electric car is range anxiety. I reckon they should be made with a towbar and connection point for a battery trailer. Most of the time, you can charge up from wind and sun to drive your few km a day. When you want/need to do 1000km you haul a battery trailer for the trip and drop it off at a charging depot for the next person to use
Select to expand quotecisco said..
Electric vehicles for the general population is probably the most nonsensical idea around today.
So we all want to be moralistic, environmentalist, save the planet and yadda, yadda, yadda.
Ask yourself the question. What are the naturally occurring forms of energy?????
Electrical energy is low on the list. Lightning and static is all I can think of.
Heat energy we get from the Sun daily, not nightly.
Chemical energy is abundance all around us and can be harnessed in a multidue of ways but is dormant until we convert it into another form of energy by mixing one chemical with another or by applying heat energy to a chemical energy such as burning a fuel.
The basic law of physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Do I need to repeat that or have you all got it?????????????
It can be transformed from one to another, efficiently by lighting a gas stove and getting instant heat or inefficiently by turning on your electric stove. Consider how the electricty gets to your stove.
So you want to have an electric powered vehicle so that you can feel that you are environmentaly responsible and virtue signal to your friends what a cunny funt you are.
Where is your electricity coming from?? Are you on a daily delivery of a lightning bolt??
You are so airy fairy Macro. Get real.
Never heard so much nonsense since Angus Taylor sprouted his usual misinformation
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
The only good reason not to buy an electric car is range anxiety...
Probably several more perfectly good reasons.
like ...I don't need one because I have a perfectly good car that will last many more years yet.
Or price. Or range choice and availability of suitable vehicles with the functions I require.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..Mr Milk said..
The only good reason not to buy an electric car is range anxiety...
Probably several more perfectly good reasons.
like ...I don't need one because I have a perfectly good car that will last many more years yet.
Or price. Or range choice and availability of suitable vehicles with the functions I require.
And don't forget the farcical claim that there are no emissions, powered from the grid so no emissions there, (rolleyes) batteries materials mined on one side of the world, shipped to battery manufacturer on the other side of the world, shipped to vehicle manufacturer wherever then shipped to point of sale in whichever country, warranted for up to eight years, then replace either car or battery. No emissions anywhere there, so yeah, very green. 
^^
The MG ZS EV is $41990 drive away, and the same car in petrol is $28990. $13k is probably a bigger reason than range anxiety I would have thought...
Select to expand quoteAUS1111 said..
^^
The MG ZS EV is $41990 drive away, and the same car in petrol is $28990. $13k is probably a bigger reason than range anxiety I would have thought...
That's a chicken and egg issue. The MG ZS EV is $13k more expensive because of range anxiety in our local market. It's equipped with a battery 3 times larger than is needed 99 days out of 100. (On the 100th day you pull up for a coffee beside a supercharger).
The GM Wilung has a 9.2 Kw hr battery the Tesla S, catering for western car culture, has a choice of 60 to 100 kWhr batteries.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..
It's equipped with a battery 3 times larger than is needed 99 days out of 100. (On the 100th day you pull up for a coffee beside a supercharger)...
Same logic says the petrol version must have a fuel tank 6 times larger than required then.
( Google tells me the EV MG has a range of just under 300kms and the petrol a tank capacity of 48 litres and fuel consumption of about 8l/100km, so a range >600km )
So, would you buy a petrol car with a tank capacity of 8 litres ?
Why not ?
Just your unjustified Australian-centric "range anxiety" ??
Select to expand quotecisco said.. >>>
Where is your electricity coming from?? Are you on a daily delivery of a lightning bolt??
You are so airy fairy Macro. Get real.
Have you heard of solar panels?
It is looking increasingly likely that travel by plane is a thing of the past for us plebs anyway - the new normal.
I am betting on travel by car will eventually be phased out too.
Electric cars will reduce our time on the road for certain and they will legislate due to their BS climate change theory that we cannot have even electric cars. Thinking around 2035.
Likely part of The Great Reset.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..Ian K said..
It's equipped with a battery 3 times larger than is needed 99 days out of 100. (On the 100th day you pull up for a coffee beside a supercharger)...
Same logic says the petrol version must have a fuel tank 6 times larger than required then.
( Google tells me the EV MG has a range of just under 300kms and the petrol a tank capacity of 48 litres and fuel consumption of about 8l/100km, so a range >600km )
So, would you buy a petrol car with a tank capacity of 8 litres ?
Why not ?
Just your unjustified Australian-centric "range anxiety" ??
But you don't keep a petrol bowser at home. With the EV, you can have it charging all the time it is in the garage. There is plenty of talk about how the power company will pay you to let them use its battery to help them deal with peak demand.
The equivalent for a petrol car would be to drop in to the station most times you go for a trip and let the attendant syphon a bit out if it happened to be peak hour.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..
Same logic says the petrol version must have a fuel tank 6 times larger than required then.
Weight and expense is driving the ev logic. The 85 kWhr battery in a Tesla weighs 540 kg at a cost of $150 per kWhr. 50kg of petrol will do the same distance, a 75 litre tank is not expensive so why not?
And weight compounds. To cart around that extra 500kg all the structural and dynamic components have to be beefed up. The whole Tesla weighs 2.1 tonnes. If we could shelve the range anxiety they could build an electric car doing the same job as a Tesla, with a range of 100km, but much lighter and cheaper. A 100 km a day is 36,500 km a year, even at 100kph that's 15 full days of the year behind the wheel! Life's too short to even think you need an ev with a range of more than 100km.
We also need to consider that city car is mostly designed to get to work place and then back.
While standing at work , why not to recharge for free? ( at workplace expense or solar panels at parking lot.)
Then range of 200 km ber day seems to be very reasonable.
I doubt any person at sane mind travel to work 600 km everyday.
If such person even exist, I could even fire him immediately- because will be completely usless after driving that much.
I am tired about constant complains about range.
How many km really people tend to drive without stopping?
When stopping to eat or pee , why not to reachrge and km limiter counter get resest.Where are those heroes driving everyday thousand km??I do drive to my farm 300km and I think that is max what human may stand or enjouy , Anything more is just a torture.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
There is plenty of talk ....
Yeah, plenty of talk. Talk, talk, talk.
Plenty of talk also about teleporters and the nirvana of heaven.
Doesn't mean a 100km range vehicle has any actual value to a large number of people though.
Would I buy an vehicle with a 100km range to replace my current car ? - nope.
Would you ? - I bet not.
But we can all talk about how everyone else should.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
We also need to consider that city car is mostly designed to get to work place and then back
If you are in the city why not take public transport ?
Or walk ?
Or ride a bike ?
Or move out of the city.
Cities are what will kill civilization, not a slow uptake of EV.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..Macroscien said..
We also need to consider that city car is mostly designed to get to work place and then back
If you are in the city why not take public transport ?
Or walk ?
Or ride a bike ?
Or move out of the city.
Cities are what will kill civilization, not a slow uptake of EV.
If we look at public transport, after hours, empty trams and busess going on their daily route.
What a waste, one may say.
It must be better way to manage communal resources.
Maybe even public self driving vehicle that get people to destination directly, instead of big empty buses and trams.
BTW
I fully agree that big cities are completely oudated idea.
Population could spread into smaller town, more evenly.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..Carantoc said..
Same logic says the petrol version must have a fuel tank 6 times larger than required then.
Weight and expense is driving the ev logic. The 85 kWhr battery in a Tesla weighs 540 kg at a cost of $150 per kWhr. 50kg of petrol will do the same distance, a 75 litre tank is not expensive so why not?
And weight compounds. To cart around that extra 500kg all the structural and dynamic components have to be beefed up. The whole Tesla weighs 2.1 tonnes. If we could shelve the range anxiety they could build an electric car doing the same job as a Tesla, with a range of 100km, but much lighter and cheaper. A 100 km a day is 36,500 km a year, even at 100kph that's 15 full days of the year behind the wheel! Life's too short to even think you need an ev with a range of more than 100km.
There is easy and cheap solution to convert short range city car into unlimited km monster.
In place of 2 passengers in this 4 person car - portable battery pack, hired from petrol/electric charging station.
200kg divided by energy density 300wh per 1 kg = 60 kwh !!! ~ 700 km extra range
ok, modern, popular battery have now only half of that density so let it be 30kwh.
30kwh divided by 8.5kwh = 350 km
my solar panel at home deliver not > 100kwh , that is 1100 km of free ride every day!
Then can be swapped at petrol station in 2 minutes for new, fully charged.
If still not enough , why not to attach trailer to tow bar- then we could drive all Australia around on single charge....
This extra battery pack should be hired only in preperation for longer trip, so doesn't effect vehicle price and weight for everyday commuting.
Yes !!! I want an electric car and no we don't get a choice. Every manufacturer has now got an end date for an ICE car. Remember we don't make cars anymore so we get what the world builds. Currently there are no cars available that will work with what I need. Range has to be 400 km min, a van and capable of towing. I may yet build something that suits my needs but cheap it's not. Current costings are north of 50 K, but the fuel is free via my panels.
Adding a battery to the back seat is just dumb, where does that weight go in a crash. Fit it underneath where it should go.
Cisco....cheap power comes from wind and solar, but I'm happy for your faith in coal. It really is dead , it just not buried yet.
Select to expand quoteIan K said..
100 km a day is 36,500 km a year, even at 100kph that's 15 full days of the year behind the wheel! Life's too short to even think you need an ev with a range of more than 100km.
the average Aussie car wouldnt even be doing 20,000 klicks a year...
edit .....
curiosity got the better of me, google foo says the average milage for an Aussie vehicle [all vehicles - not just cars] is closer to 13,000km
Here in W.A. it is closer to 12,000km, with only Tassie being lower average milage [but they get more hilly bits than us to compensate]
Select to expand quotesn said..Ian K said..
100 km a day is 36,500 km a year, even at 100kph that's 15 full days of the year behind the wheel! Life's too short to even think you need an ev with a range of more than 100km.
the average Aussie car wouldnt even be doing 20,000 klicks a year...
edit .....
curiosity got the better of me, google foo says the average milage for an Aussie vehicle [all vehicles - not just cars] is closer to 13,000km
Here in W.A. it is closer to 12,000km, with only Tassie being lower average milage [but they get more hilly bits than us to compensate]
13,000 divided by 365 = 35 km per day
