^^^ Govts will always have a purpose later on for remote facilities to house people they want to remove from society for a bit.
This is all very good practice for them with tracing, lockdown and remove/quarantine some of the population.
Yeah $700 million is expensive... but still its peanuts compared to the cost of the economy shutting down, i feel.
That cost is extrodinary though. You can build (not inc. land) a 4x2 house for $250K. (at least, untill recently, in wa...) So 1000 full size houses, $250 million. Not $700 million. add a few million to buy a farmers paddock. But the price estimate is typical of government cost estimate. E.g. i work in state government, and have costed out single cubicle, long drop toilet blocks, for $150,000. Fkn crazy, 150K for a long drop dunny. But there are cheaper ways, e.g. we build them ourselves rather than using contractors, and the price comes down to less than half.
Anyhoot, if someone wants to give me $700 million, id be happy to sort out suitable accommodation for a few thousand people. :)
$15 million for planning alone... crazy.
Alernative uses after the pandemic is done.... i agree there are many. Homeless shelters. Low security prisons. Emergency accommodation for bushfire evactuations. Quarantine centres for the next global pandemic even.... the list goest on. So its not going to be wasted money.
I guess the frustrating thing about all of this is that no one appears to be even trying, theres no sense of urgency. When this whole mess started, china built a massive new hospital, start to finish, in 3 weeks. Our governmnets taken 18 months now and are still arguing about if we need one, and whos job it is to do it/pay for it.
Decent quarantine was worked out long ago. It's pretty simple. Put people in an isolated area where they can't get out of till they are not infectious. Most Australian cities have islands nearby. You'd think with the amount of authoritarian power the State uses reducing our freedom that was unthinkable two years ago that most Australians seem to seem to be happy with, locking up people coming into Australia in quarantine gaols would be acceptable.
Hotels are not set up as quarantine facilities. They are set up as hotels.
Why don't they just vaccinate every arrival, that way there is far less chance of Covid jumping through the ventilation system or whatever is happening?
Select to expand quotebjw said..
I feel having the hotel quarantines at CBD hotels is also about giving a leg up to the local hotels, as without it they would be screwed. I think many would have closed had it not been for this.
I agree. I think they found it as a way to keep these places afloat. Maybe we can have both, which is the current suggestion. The hotels get the lower risk people, the higher risk people go straight into the purpose built detention camps quarantine facilities.
These newer strains are just moving too fast and the hotels cant cope easily.
It goes to show you how many people that came back from OS were negative, so in general they were low risk, yet now we are facing the possibility that we are getting plane loads of people coming back with them all having Covid as its highly likely they would catch it on the flight anyway. Any mistakes you could have gotten away with before are not going to work with this scenario.
Select to expand quotebjw said..
Why don't they just vaccinate every arrival, that way there is far less chance of Covid jumping through the ventilation system or whatever is happening?
Vaccines are not effective immediately. You are training your immune system to respond to the virus, so its quite conceivable that you could arrive with Covid, get a vaccine and still pass it along for ages. As you already have it it will be too late for you, but you are also going to be able to pass it onto the other people around you if they got the vaccine at the same time.
I don't know how long it takes to be effective, but you can take a hint from the need to have multiple jabs to reach a level where they consider it enough protection.
Edit: I found this:
"It typically takes two weeks after vaccination for the body to build protection (immunity) against the virus that causes COVID-19. You are not fully vaccinated until 2 weeks after the 2nd dose of a two-dose vaccine or two weeks after a one-dose vaccine."
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
Vaccines are not effective immediately. You are training your immune system to respond to the virus, so its quite conceivable that you could arrive with Covid, get a vaccine and still pass it along for ages. As you already have it it will be too late for you, but you are also going to be able to pass it onto the other people around you if they got the vaccine at the same time.
I don't know how long it takes to be effective, but you can take a hint from the need to have multiple jabs to reach a level where they consider it enough protection.
Edit: I found this:
"It typically takes two weeks after vaccination for the body to build protection (immunity) against the virus that causes COVID-19. You are not fully vaccinated until 2 weeks after the 2nd dose of a two-dose vaccine or two weeks after a one-dose vaccine."
I heard vaccination doesn't stop you from getting covid but greatly lowers your chances of going to hospital and getting intensive care.
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..FormulaNova said..
Vaccines are not effective immediately. You are training your immune system to respond to the virus, so its quite conceivable that you could arrive with Covid, get a vaccine and still pass it along for ages. As you already have it it will be too late for you, but you are also going to be able to pass it onto the other people around you if they got the vaccine at the same time.
I don't know how long it takes to be effective, but you can take a hint from the need to have multiple jabs to reach a level where they consider it enough protection.
Edit: I found this:
"It typically takes two weeks after vaccination for the body to build protection (immunity) against the virus that causes COVID-19. You are not fully vaccinated until 2 weeks after the 2nd dose of a two-dose vaccine or two weeks after a one-dose vaccine."
I heard vaccination doesn't stop you from getting covid but greatly lowers your chances of going to hospital and getting intensive care.
So Covid SARS 19 vaccines reduce the symptoms of infection but do not stop infection?
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..FormulaNova said..
Vaccines are not effective immediately. You are training your immune system to respond to the virus, so its quite conceivable that you could arrive with Covid, get a vaccine and still pass it along for ages. As you already have it it will be too late for you, but you are also going to be able to pass it onto the other people around you if they got the vaccine at the same time.
I don't know how long it takes to be effective, but you can take a hint from the need to have multiple jabs to reach a level where they consider it enough protection.
Edit: I found this:
"It typically takes two weeks after vaccination for the body to build protection (immunity) against the virus that causes COVID-19. You are not fully vaccinated until 2 weeks after the 2nd dose of a two-dose vaccine or two weeks after a one-dose vaccine."
I heard vaccination doesn't stop you from getting covid but greatly lowers your chances of going to hospital and getting intensive care.
I think they say that for variants that may not have been used for the development of the vaccines. It sounds like its a bit uncertain, but it seems that the WHO believe that the existing vaccines are effective for current strains.
The suggestion sounds reasonable though.
Planet America last Friday said that out of 100M Yanks vaccinated so far, there have been about 660 cases bad enough to go to hospital and about 130 deaths. So that's a fatality rate about 0.0001%, vs about 2%-3% for an unvaccinated population.
Surely the bean counter phd economic mathematicians have done the sums and are advising both state and federal governments on the overall cost benefit of build in these facilities.
remember it's the small Mum and dad businesses that bear the brunt of these lockdowns. The large giant global oligopolies all seem to be "essential"
businesses" it seems. Funny that hey.
Basic logic dictates that we pay and built these facilities. But it ain't that simple when you throw in the political influence of our corporate over lords.
I have worked in the design and testing of containment facilities for years and at the start of this Pandemic a local builder of portable accomodation for mines, construction etc sent out expressions of interest for portable self contained negative pressure rooms built and tested to the recognised containment standard PC1.
All they needed was Power, Water and a Sewer connection, pricing was good, the Idea sound but it never went any further.
Politicians are blinkered by their term, the heads of public departments are career orientated and in some states (Vic) act like they're Oligarchs, conjure recollections of "Yes Minister" and you'll probably get an accurate and realistic picture of why we have what we have.
Innovation requires foresight and risk taking, attributes not easily reconciled with Government and the Public Service.
Yeh a mate of mine worked in Canberra for
a while in a government department and said the "hollow men" was hard to watch because it was so scarily close to truth.
Select to expand quoteDeefer said..
...
Politicians are blinkered by their term, the heads of public departments are career orientated and in some states (Vic) act like they're Oligarchs, conjure recollections of "Yes Minister" and you'll probably get an accurate and realistic picture of why we have what we have.
Innovation requires foresight and risk taking, attributes not easily reconciled with Government and the Public Service.
Large businesses end up the same. People become involved in politics and looking after their own agendas and not worried so much about delivering.
I can imagine that designing these things can be mired in rounds and rounds of meetings and consultations and end up with something not as good as an individual could come up with themselves.
The worst thing you can do is let a group like this know what their budget is. They will eat it up and then ask for more as they don't feel a sense of urgency until they have already run out of funding. There are approaches now of doing this iteratively and 'just good enough' which seem to be more practical in delivering something and then making it better.
here you go
cut and paste
half the price
www.bhp.com/careers/get-to-know-our-business/south-flank/mulla360-page/
Quarantine Camps.
Whilst they are the right thing to do, the Government won't do it.
If these facilities are made, it has to be all in for them to do quarantine properly; no more hotel quarantine at all.
Classifying people as 'low risk' and 'high risk' to determine if they can go into hotel quarantine or a quarantine camp is a dangerous route to go.
How do you tell who is 'low risk'? Really? How many 'low risk' people have caused outbreaks.
A low risk / high risk system would also be open to so much corruption...
Movie stars actors, sports stars players and other precious petals would be so outraged at having to stay in the FIFO style quarantine camps that would be made, cause that's the dismal standard of accommodation that would be made, the government would have to create separate 'upmarket' accommodation in the camps, more than likely as a separate section completely, to pander to these super important members of our society.
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..
Send four hundred Victorians there:
1. One hundred who have taken Pfizer
2. One hundred who have taken Astrazeneca
3. One hundred who have had virus (maybe Missy Higgins dad could be captain?)
4. One hundred volunteers, or safe injecting room users, who haven't had the virus.
We could lower them into India using helicopters and big numbered cages for 24 or more hours.
That should help the government know what to do next.
I also would like to see the results of this study.
Surely the two hundred vaccinated people will be completely fine, right? That's what the vaccines are for, yeah? To protect us?
The official word on vaccinations:
'Vaccination is a simple, safe, and effective way of protecting people against harmful diseases, before they come into contact with them.'
I think the sample study is a bit low, add in another 100, long term dole-bludgers.
And another 100 people who tuck their ears under their baseball caps.
Select to expand quotePoida said.. here you go, cut and paste, half the price
www.bhp.com/careers/get-to-know-our-business/south-flank/mulla360-page/
I can point you towards a site that is within spitting distance of Charlie Gairdiner's and the West Leederville St. John of God Hospital.
Sealed roads, pleasant surroundings, good comms, already plumbed for water supply and sewerage, power supply can be sorted pretty quick - and coincidentally - already earmarked by the W.A. Govt. as the site for an emergency "refugee" camp in case fire/flood/sky falling finds us needing somewhere to stash a few thousand people at short-ish notice.
1994/95 The Scouts held a jamboree at Perry Lakes - 12500ish Scouts under canvas, and part of the deal of having use of the site was that the upgraded water supply and sewer system was to be left in place.
It took us less than 10 days to fence the whole place, set up freezers, bulk stores and transport, set up and commission our pre-made ablution blocks. [nothing fancy- but cheap!!]
Between the local Scouts and Seventh Day Adventist Church we had 90% of the canvas set up for the admin areas, international arrivals and most of the interstate troops within 3 days.
Some of the power was run from the [upgraded] existing supply, with other areas using industrial sized gen-sets.
When we packed up the site, the sewer points were sealed and buried - with a steel plough disk or similar about 300mm underground to protect the junction and to make them easy to find with a metal detector.
Water supply and drainage points were decommissioned in a similar manner - with a fair sprinkling of the water supply points left as potable water taps for park users and drinking fountains.
Part of the site is now gone - [developers strike again] but it could still possibly cater for a couple of thousand in "donga style" accommodation - as long as the local gentry didn't complain too much. 
Nothing will be build, well my opinion anyway. The government is focusing on vaccination now, once Pfizer becomes readily available by the end of the year for the greater population anything built will go end up sitting idle as they open the borders.
Building is the easy part, finding good staff with the current shortages will be difficult, especially since it will be such a short employment term.
I'm sure the government has a magic percentage of the population vaccination before not requiring quarantine for returning travellers and tourists, probably around 70%. Considering we are probably around 30% now (first jab only) after the wave of vaccinations taking place due to the Vic lockdown it should be achieved early next year possibly.
Those unvaccinated will just have to take their chances, protect themselves as best they can. Sad, but this is the direction Australia is heading, as is the rest of the world. Interesting that many of my family and workmates are now vaccinated or have their appointment booked, big uptake in the last month.
There was ebola in Africa, SARS ripped through Asia pretty bad, now we have the global situation with Covid-19 + it's variants. All pretty recent history, if we are going to travel internationally in the future remote containment facilities should be on the cards in all states and territories. Placing potentially infected people in the heart of dense populations is blatant stupidity.
Select to expand quotesn said..
Lots of stuff.
That's more like a set up for an emergency situation rather than a suitable long term quarantine arrangement for incoming travelers.
Select to expand quoteairsail said..
Interesting that many of my family and workmates are now vaccinated or have their appointment booked, big uptake in the last month.
It's very commendable that they have volunteered to take part in the clinical trials.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..airsail said..
Interesting that many of my family and workmates are now vaccinated or have their appointment booked, big uptake in the last month.
It's very commendable that they have volunteered to take part in the clinical trials.
Watch this space, they are looking at opening borders quicker than even I thought, but only for those vaccinated. Another nail in the coffin for any type of quarantine facility.
www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/01/trial-allowing-vaccinated-australians-to-travel-overseas-could-start-in-six-weeks
Select to expand quoteairsail said..
Watch this space, they are looking at opening borders quicker than even I thought, but only for those vaccinated. Another nail in the coffin for any type of quarantine facility.
www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jun/01/trial-allowing-vaccinated-australians-to-travel-overseas-could-start-in-six-weeks
Unlikely, with possible fresh outbreaks in NSW and WA just announced in last few hours.
Select to expand quotePoida said..
here you go
cut and paste
half the price
www.bhp.com/careers/get-to-know-our-business/south-flank/mulla360-page/
This one is on the market, good to go.
www.perthnow.com.au/news/regional/former-bhp-mine-workers-camp-in-port-hedland-goes-up-for-sale-ng-b881890239z
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Yeh a mate of mine worked in Canberra for
a while in a government department and said the "hollow men" was hard to watch because it was so scarily close to truth.
I can't watch this show, it sickens me.
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..eppo said..
Yeh a mate of mine worked in Canberra for
a while in a government department and said the "hollow men" was hard to watch because it was so scarily close to truth.
I can't watch this show, it sickens me.
Me too man, me too.
so vaccination border passes hey. Good grief the centralised control we are giving these pricks. On the surface it seems sensible and it will be sold as such. But where does it stop? After this what other measures can be put in place to control peoples movement as such. And this one is for a mortality rate lower than the common cold! Orwell is really starting to turn in his grave.
Can we skip the idea that Covid has lower mortality than the common cold?
The current statistics on Microsoft news coronavirus tracker are 171.7M cases worldwide, 3.7M fatalities, so that's a bit over 2% fatality rate.
How many people do you know who have died or even been hospitalised from a cold?
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
Can we skip the idea that Covid has lower mortality than the common cold?
The current statistics on Microsoft news coronavirus tracker are 171.7M cases worldwide, 3.7M fatalities, so that's a bit over 2% fatality rate.
How many people do you know who have died or even been hospitalised from a cold?
I am sure he meant mortality rate of people inside hotel quarantine compared to the common cold 
Yes, I am sure lots of people in India are not thinking 'it's not as bad as a cold' right now.
