Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Vaccine who has it who hasn't who won't?

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Created by Razzonater > 9 months ago, 25 Jun 2021
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japie
NSW, 7145 posts
26 Aug 2021 8:38PM
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Kamikuza said..

lotofwind said..
You missed the important bit he was trying to tell you japie, Im sure that was accidental.
if you want the vaccine and have any heart history it would be worth talking to your GP about your vaccine choice, especially as AZ is readily available and does not have this side effect.

Which we all already know and has been said by every Doc and gov. since day one, talk to your GP.

But his case dosent count for anything, going by your logic, as he has a family history and an under lying history of heart problems.




Oh didn't realize you were a cardiologist or a GP...? If not, maybe you need to stay in your own lane. Like you keep telling the rest of us to do...


Don't shut him down Kami. I'm a big believer in setting reference points in my life. This one serves as a constant reminder of what it would feel like to have been Randle McMurphy after the lobotomy.

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
26 Aug 2021 8:51PM
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Hey japie, your daughter is a nurse here at our local hospital, what is her opinion on you self prescribing Ivermectin without first going to your local doctor to talk about it, only going on videos on the web ??

MickPC
8266 posts
26 Aug 2021 6:57PM
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lotofwind said..

MickPC said..
I'm far more fearful of the vaccines than of c19 given I'm not obese, not immune system compromised or have respiratory system issues...

Popped in to find a link some legend shared a few days back but was unable to find it here. Buried or another censored post, we really need far more transparency on this topic.

But anyway I was able to find it again, here ya go people.

***********************************************************************
rumble.com/vllnya-freedom-rally-darwin-nt-extended-footage.html
***********************************************************************



Aboriginal community complains they dont have to abide by Australia's laws, that are there to try to keep them safe.
Police officer agrees but asks them to make sure its non violent.

Aboriginal community gets wiped out from covid, then blames the gov. for not keeping them safe and asks for compensation.


Time will tell, I found their spokesman well informed & quick witted...I think we're in a far different time from when the first fleets arrived.

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
26 Aug 2021 9:04PM
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agreed

FormulaNova
WA, 15090 posts
26 Aug 2021 7:21PM
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lotofwind said..


Kamikuza said..





lotofwind said..
You missed the important bit he was trying to tell you japie, Im sure that was accidental.
if you want the vaccine and have any heart history it would be worth talking to your GP about your vaccine choice, especially as AZ is readily available and does not have this side effect.

Which we all already know and has been said by every Doc and gov. since day one, talk to your GP.

But his case dosent count for anything, going by your logic, as he has a family history and an under lying history of heart problems.








Oh didn't realize you were a cardiologist or a GP...? If not, maybe you need to stay in your own lane. Like you keep telling the rest of us to do...






???????? Ummmm no Im not, just quoting what this dude said ????? Seems he isnt a cardiologist or GP either, sooooo we shouldnt listen to him either

Or are you disagreeing with his advice of seeing a GP if you have a heart condition before getting a vax??

Seems pretty sound advice, but you dont think so??




www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/channel-7-journalist-hospitalised-with-pericarditis-after-pfizer-vaccine/news-story/43e3d637eeea6827962aa973db8cda7e

In the news.com.au version of that story they provided a link to a study which talks about this problem in people under the age of 20 who get Covid.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v1

Their conclusion whether you agree with it or not is "Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine."

I must admit, I got sidetracked after reading that story with this one www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/man-tragically-dies-after-using-glue-to-seal-off-penis/news-story/18db3fa55edcc40425396414f119e7f2

It seems someone should learn how to use prophylactics.

japie
NSW, 7145 posts
26 Aug 2021 9:30PM
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lotofwind said..
Hey japie, your daughter is a nurse here at our local hospital, what is her opinion on you self prescribing Ivermectin without first going to your local doctor to talk about it, only going on videos on the web ??


Funny you should ask that. One of the blokes I kite with is a nurse at Coffs.

He was given a script for ivermectin. Refuses to be jabbed.

She is my daughter in law. She's well read, supportive and not vaccinated. Travelled extensively. Knows that ivermectin is available over the counter in more countries than it's not.
You're vertically challenged aren't you. Took a little while to put my finger on it??

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
26 Aug 2021 9:37PM
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Your finger is definitely on it lol
Is she allowed to keep working in the hospital unvaxed? They are giving the staff ivermectin instead ?

I dont know any of the male nurses, only know your daughter in law is cause you posted it on here.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
26 Aug 2021 10:47PM
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lotofwind said..
???????? Ummmm no Im not, just quoting what this dude said ????? Seems he isnt a cardiologist or GP either, sooooo we shouldnt listen to him either

Or are you disagreeing with his advice of seeing a GP if you have a heart condition before getting a vax??

Seems pretty sound advice, but you dont think so??



Sorry, I don't take medical advice from experts on the internet.

Oh wait, are you now saying that we're allowed to reference and repeat advice, data, and hypothesis from medical experts?

That's quite an aboutface for you.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6493 posts
26 Aug 2021 10:52PM
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FormulaNova said.
www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/channel-7-journalist-hospitalised-with-pericarditis-after-pfizer-vaccine/news-story/43e3d637eeea6827962aa973db8cda7e

In the news.com.au version of that story they provided a link to a study which talks about this problem in people under the age of 20 who get Covid.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.23.21260998v1

Their conclusion whether you agree with it or not is "Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine."

I must admit, I got sidetracked after reading that story with this one www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/man-tragically-dies-after-using-glue-to-seal-off-penis/news-story/18db3fa55edcc40425396414f119e7f2

It seems someone should learn how to use prophylactics.


Yes these are all things that have been brought up pages and week, if not months, ago here, so it's not news. Can't be bothered reading it, but I doubt they've addressed the risk of myocarditis in under 20's from a vaccine either...

Clearly he wasn't scared of that superglue enough

But yes, I'm with lotofwind on this one -- we need to more mandatory medical procedures in place to protect the best interests of the community, starting with sterilization and retroactive prophylaxis.

FlySurfer
NSW, 4460 posts
27 Aug 2021 1:12AM
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Australian Immunisation Register (AIR) - ceasing correspondence and release of information form (IM017)

www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/organisations/health-professionals/forms/im017

kiterboy
2614 posts
27 Aug 2021 6:32AM
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Ivermectin
Emergency use authorization for the vaccines cannot be granted if there are effective alternative approved treatments for Covid19.
So, if the pharmaceutical industry is going to make any money off covid, they must suppress the existence of any existing off patent drugs that may be effective in treating or preventing covid:

www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization

Meta-analysis on the efficacy of Ivermectin in treating Covid19: journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx

A double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled trial shows that Ivermectin is able to significantly reduce viral load within 6 days for most people:
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258081v1

More evidence that Ivermectin treatment leads to much faster recovery from Covid19:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.26880

A study reveals that a five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Ivermectin stops replication of covid:
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888155/

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties against covid:
www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-

Ivermectin binds to Covid19 proteins to block the virus:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Evidence that Ivermectin can be effective as a prophylaxis, Argentinian frontline healthcare workers were given Ivermectin as a preventative and zero got sick with covid, whereas 58.2% of the control group who did not take Ivermectin got covid:
www.buongiornosuedtirol.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Nota-Journal-of-Biomedical-Research-Safety-and-Efficacy-Iota-Carrageenan-and-Ivermectin.pdf

Ivermectin safe to give 12mg per day for 5 days:
www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712%2820%2932506-6/fulltext

Ivermectin safely administered 60mg per day for 6 months:
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10428194.2020.1786559

airsail
QLD, 1565 posts
27 Aug 2021 8:37AM
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FlySurfer said..
Australian Immunisation Register (AIR) - ceasing correspondence and release of information form (IM017)

www.servicesaustralia.gov.au/organisations/health-professionals/forms/im017


What's the point of that, wouldn't you want your GP or another emergency service to know what vaccinations you have had to discount various illnesses if your sick.

airsail
QLD, 1565 posts
27 Aug 2021 8:40AM
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kiterboy said..
Ivermectin
Emergency use authorization for the vaccines cannot be granted if there are effective alternative approved treatments for Covid19.
So, if the pharmaceutical industry is going to make any money off covid, they must suppress the existence of any existing off patent drugs that may be effective in treating or preventing covid:

www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization

Meta-analysis on the efficacy of Ivermectin in treating Covid19: journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx

A double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled trial shows that Ivermectin is able to significantly reduce viral load within 6 days for most people:
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258081v1

More evidence that Ivermectin treatment leads to much faster recovery from Covid19:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.26880

A study reveals that a five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Ivermectin stops replication of covid:
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888155/

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties against covid:
www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-

Ivermectin binds to Covid19 proteins to block the virus:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Evidence that Ivermectin can be effective as a prophylaxis, Argentinian frontline healthcare workers were given Ivermectin as a preventative and zero got sick with covid, whereas 58.2% of the control group who did not take Ivermectin got covid:
www.buongiornosuedtirol.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Nota-Journal-of-Biomedical-Research-Safety-and-Efficacy-Iota-Carrageenan-and-Ivermectin.pdf

Ivermectin safe to give 12mg per day for 5 days:
www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712%2820%2932506-6/fulltext

Ivermectin safely administered 60mg per day for 6 months:
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10428194.2020.1786559


But you don't get your 1000 Qantas frequent flyer points if you take Ivermectin.

kiterboy
2614 posts
27 Aug 2021 6:54AM
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Select to expand quote
airsail said..

kiterboy said..
Ivermectin
Emergency use authorization for the vaccines cannot be granted if there are effective alternative approved treatments for Covid19.
So, if the pharmaceutical industry is going to make any money off covid, they must suppress the existence of any existing off patent drugs that may be effective in treating or preventing covid:

www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization

Meta-analysis on the efficacy of Ivermectin in treating Covid19: journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx

A double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled trial shows that Ivermectin is able to significantly reduce viral load within 6 days for most people:
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258081v1

More evidence that Ivermectin treatment leads to much faster recovery from Covid19:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.26880

A study reveals that a five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Ivermectin stops replication of covid:
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888155/

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties against covid:
www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-

Ivermectin binds to Covid19 proteins to block the virus:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Evidence that Ivermectin can be effective as a prophylaxis, Argentinian frontline healthcare workers were given Ivermectin as a preventative and zero got sick with covid, whereas 58.2% of the control group who did not take Ivermectin got covid:
www.buongiornosuedtirol.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Nota-Journal-of-Biomedical-Research-Safety-and-Efficacy-Iota-Carrageenan-and-Ivermectin.pdf

Ivermectin safe to give 12mg per day for 5 days:
www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712%2820%2932506-6/fulltext

Ivermectin safely administered 60mg per day for 6 months:
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10428194.2020.1786559



But you don't get your 1000 Qantas frequent flyer points if you take Ivermectin.


Damn, there goes the 1/8th of the toaster I wanted

kiterboy
2614 posts
27 Aug 2021 6:58AM
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The Potential for Autoimmune Disorders

There is a potential for an autoimmune response from the vaccines. The vaccines that were developed for Sars-Cov-1 used the spike protein, just like the vaccines for Sars-Cov-2.
Unfortunately, the old vaccines caused the animals to develop serious autoimmune disorders and causing severe organ damage.
There is a question about whether these new vaccines, which also focus on the spike protein, will also cause autoimmune disorders.
Since both the old vaccines and the new vaccines utilize the spike protein to elicit an immune response, there is a danger that the new vaccines will have the same issues.
The problem is that autoimmune disorders take a long time to develop and to be detectable. It may take a long time before doctors and scientists can link the sudden rise in certain kinds of autoimmune disorders with these vaccines.
Usually, in a vaccine trial you closely monitor your trial group for years and years. This allows you to identify the signals.
With the current program of injecting millions of people, there will be no clear way to link causation to the vaccines and an increase in autoimmune disorders may just fly under the radar.
We may not know for a very long time or we may never know. Another concern is that because of the way the mRNA vaccines work, they cause your own cells to present as foreign entities.
Your immune system comes over and starts killing your own cells. This has never been done before in human history.
We have no idea if there will be long term consequences for teaching your immune system to treat its own cells as foreign material. We will have to wait and see whether this will lead to autoimmune disorders.

This means that caution, at the very least, is justified and rational.

Journal article from 2004 on autoimmune disorders from Sars-cov1 vaccine that also focused on the spike protein:
www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2004/12/sars-vaccine-linked-liver-damage-ferret-study

Journal article from 2005 on autoimmune disorders from Sars-cov1 vaccine that also focused on the spike protein:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15755610/

Journal article from 2012 on autoimmune disorders from Sars-cov1 vaccine that also focused on the spike protein:
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421

Journal article from 2020 on autoimmune disorders from Sars-cov vaccine (can't figure out if they're talking about cov1 or 2):
jvi.asm.org/content/78/22/12672.abstract

Journal article from 2020 explains why immune disorders happen with covid vax, because human and Covid19 proteins are similar:
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589909020300186

airsail
QLD, 1565 posts
27 Aug 2021 8:59AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
kiterboy said..

airsail said..


kiterboy said..
Ivermectin
Emergency use authorization for the vaccines cannot be granted if there are effective alternative approved treatments for Covid19.
So, if the pharmaceutical industry is going to make any money off covid, they must suppress the existence of any existing off patent drugs that may be effective in treating or preventing covid:

www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization

Meta-analysis on the efficacy of Ivermectin in treating Covid19: journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx

A double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled trial shows that Ivermectin is able to significantly reduce viral load within 6 days for most people:
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258081v1

More evidence that Ivermectin treatment leads to much faster recovery from Covid19:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.26880

A study reveals that a five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Ivermectin stops replication of covid:
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888155/

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties against covid:
www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-

Ivermectin binds to Covid19 proteins to block the virus:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Evidence that Ivermectin can be effective as a prophylaxis, Argentinian frontline healthcare workers were given Ivermectin as a preventative and zero got sick with covid, whereas 58.2% of the control group who did not take Ivermectin got covid:
www.buongiornosuedtirol.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Nota-Journal-of-Biomedical-Research-Safety-and-Efficacy-Iota-Carrageenan-and-Ivermectin.pdf

Ivermectin safe to give 12mg per day for 5 days:
www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712%2820%2932506-6/fulltext

Ivermectin safely administered 60mg per day for 6 months:
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10428194.2020.1786559




But you don't get your 1000 Qantas frequent flyer points if you take Ivermectin.



Damn, there goes the 1/8th of the toaster I wanted


Got my 1/8 of a toaster, happy to share my vaccination certificate with anyone who wants it, especially my employer.

kiterboy
2614 posts
27 Aug 2021 7:01AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
airsail said..


kiterboy said..



airsail said..




kiterboy said..
Ivermectin
Emergency use authorization for the vaccines cannot be granted if there are effective alternative approved treatments for Covid19.
So, if the pharmaceutical industry is going to make any money off covid, they must suppress the existence of any existing off patent drugs that may be effective in treating or preventing covid:

www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/mcm-legal-regulatory-and-policy-framework/emergency-use-authorization

Meta-analysis on the efficacy of Ivermectin in treating Covid19: journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/Abstract/9000/Ivermectin_for_Prevention_and_Treatment_of.98040.aspx

A double-blind, randomized placebo-controlled trial shows that Ivermectin is able to significantly reduce viral load within 6 days for most people:
www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.31.21258081v1

More evidence that Ivermectin treatment leads to much faster recovery from Covid19:
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.26880

A study reveals that a five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness:
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/

Ivermectin stops replication of covid:
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0166354220302011

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3888155/

Ivermectin has anti-viral properties against covid:
www.nature.com/articles/s41429-020-0336-

Ivermectin binds to Covid19 proteins to block the virus:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7996102/

Evidence that Ivermectin can be effective as a prophylaxis, Argentinian frontline healthcare workers were given Ivermectin as a preventative and zero got sick with covid, whereas 58.2% of the control group who did not take Ivermectin got covid:
www.buongiornosuedtirol.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Nota-Journal-of-Biomedical-Research-Safety-and-Efficacy-Iota-Carrageenan-and-Ivermectin.pdf

Ivermectin safe to give 12mg per day for 5 days:
www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712%2820%2932506-6/fulltext

Ivermectin safely administered 60mg per day for 6 months:
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10428194.2020.1786559






But you don't get your 1000 Qantas frequent flyer points if you take Ivermectin.





Damn, there goes the 1/8th of the toaster I wanted




Got my 1/8 of a toaster, happy to share my vaccination certificate with anyone who wants it, especially my employer.



Sounds good, but you can keep the ADE and autoimmune disorder.

kiterboy
2614 posts
27 Aug 2021 7:13AM
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Vaccine Enhanced Immune Escape
Vaccine enhanced immune escape occurs when a poorly designed or weak vaccine helps create new variants.
This happens in the exact same way as antibiotic resistance and regular old evolution.
In the case of evolution, if you want to make an organism stronger, you put it under evolutionarily unfavorable conditions. This way you kill all the weak examples of the organism and leave just the strong ones.
If you want heat resistant bacteria, put a petri dish full of bacteria under moderately high heat to kill 99% of the bacteria. Save the 1% that were able to survive, allow them to grow, and repeat the process over and over again while turning up the heat a little each time.
Do this until you have a population of bacteria that are all extremely heat resistant.
The same process occurs with antibiotic resistance.
When you only take half your meds, you kill 99% of the bacteria and leave only the 1% that were more resistant to the drugs.
Before they were a small part of the population but you've changed the conditions of their environment, so that they have an advantage.
You've killed all the normal bacteria that the mutant variants had to compete with so the antibiotic resistant bacteria are the only strain. So they surge in population to take over your body and now the antibiotics don't work very well either.
The principles apply to viruses and vaccines.
If you produce a vaccine that elicits a weak immune response, you are creating an unfavorable environment for the virus. You'll kill the weak 99%, and leave the 1% mutant virus particles that are not hindered by the vaccine's antibodies.
Whereas before these mutants were only a tiny part of the population and would have been unlikely to gain significantly in population.
Now the environment is in their favor and these mutant virus particles surge in number because they no longer have to compete with the other virus particles and your bodies defenses do not work against them.
They are now highly likely to transmit to the next person, whereas before they would likely not have been able to leave the host in which the mutation occured.
The current covid vaccines are good at creating variants for three reasons.
First, some vaccine manufacturers require two shots and now also boosters because the first shot produces a very weak immune response.
Second, the vaccines are very leaky. Even after you have gotten a full immune response from both shots, you can still get and transmit the virus onto others.
Well, which virus particles are likely to get passed on by a fully vaccinated person? Clearly they will be those virus particles that have the ability to multiply quickly while avoiding the antibodies produced by the vaccines.
This will create very virulent and antibody resistant variants. Watch for these variants in the news as time goes on, we're already seeing things like Delta, Lambda, Eplsion, etc.
As we implement boosters, they will start to come at faster and faster rates, and over time data scientists will start to see timed correlations between the implementation of mass boosters and the emergence of new strains.
Third, the vaccines do seem to help reduce the severity of the disease when people are infected (although this may change as new variants emerge).
Why would this be a concern?
Well, because of the leakiness of the vaccines we just spoke about. If you have very low symptoms but you can still get and transmit the virus, then you won't even realize that you're sick and you'll be spreading the virus to even more people as an asymptomatic carrier.
So, these vaccines will only increase transmission by creating more and more asymptomatic carriers (although this may not be a bad thing, if everyone in the world gets the virus and everyone is asymptomatic, then there's really no need to care about covid anymore.
But this is an unrealistic idealization that is unlikely to occur, some people will still get sick and die or suffer long haul covid).
One additional point to address here is the claim that the unvaccinated are causing the emergence of new vaccine resistant variants.
Let me be clear, the unvaccinated absolutely have the ability to facilitate the creation of new variants. However, it would require a statistically enormous number of people to get the virus before they could produce a new variant by chance.
This is because a mutant virus particle will only make up a small portion of the virus population inside a person's body. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that this particular particle will be able to spread to a new person.
Whereas, in the vaccinated, their weak immune response specifically selects for the mutant variants. It is highly likely that if a vaccinated person passes on the virus to another person, the particles they pass on will be those that have the ability to escape from the immune response elicited by the vaccines.
An analogy would be if you did an experiment with 500 room temperature petri dishes filled with bacteria and 500 heated petri dishes with bacteria, then found a heat resistant variant but didn't know which dish it came from.
It would be absurd to think that the heat resistant strain of bacteria came from the room temperature petri dishes. It would possible, sure, but completely improbable that the heat resistant strain had suddenly appeared in a room temp petri dish. There would be no reason for it to become a dominant strain in that environment. Logically, statistically, and evolutionarily, it must have come from the heated petri dishes.
This is a very basic and obvious conclusion, but the media and government bureaucrats in lab coats are trying to tell you that the absurd thing is true.
They're trying to say that the unvaccinated (the room temperature petri dishes) are where the vaccine resistant strains are coming from.

Geert Vanden Bossche is a virologist who has been sounding the alarm on this issue, you can visit his website or see a full collection of his videos down below:
www.geertvandenbossche.org/

Evidence of cov2 immune escape:
science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/06/30/science.abi7994

Article from 2015 that explains how imperfect vaccination (like the Pfizer and moderna that require at least two shots to be effective) can create immune escape variants:
journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002198

Article from 2021 explains that unless vaccination is done quickly, there will be a high probability of escape mutants:
www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3

CDC warns COVID-19 may be a few mutations away from evading vaccines. The virus isn't mutating to avoid the vaccines because of unvaccinated people, it's because the vaccines are putting evolutionary pressure on the virus:
nypost.com/2021/07/27/cdc-covid-19-may-be-a-few-mutations-away-from-evading-vaccines/

FormulaNova
WA, 15090 posts
27 Aug 2021 7:25AM
Thumbs Up

Ahh, okay, it really has gone heavy weather now. Time to drop out of this one.

'Walls of text'

kiterboy
2614 posts
27 Aug 2021 7:28AM
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Select to expand quote
FormulaNova said..
Ahh, okay, it really has gone heavy weather now. Time to drop out of this one.

'Walls of text'


Horse, water.
The rest is up to you.


P.S. - I don't see how discussion with legitimate links included is heavy weather material.

airsail
QLD, 1565 posts
27 Aug 2021 9:29AM
Thumbs Up

I'm enjoying this thread, the crap pushed by the antivax few is quite irrelevant to me as I choose to be fully vaxed. But it's good reading the arguments for and against in the past few weeks.

It seems the antivax community is getting more desperate to get their message out, walls of text that most of us won't bother with. And social media is clamping down too, some a resorting to mailbox drops.

Good luck in your chosen paths, will be interesting to see who is still here in 12 months time, maybe Kiteboy and Japie will be alone.

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-27/coronacheck-school-student-vaccination-misinformation/100410132

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
27 Aug 2021 9:47AM
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Select to expand quote
airsail said..
Good luck in your chosen paths, will be interesting to see who is still here in 12 months time, maybe Kiteboy and Japie will be alone.



Maybe you are right, it will be up to kitekid and japie to breed and repopulate the world.
I think they may already be practicing.

kiterboy
2614 posts
27 Aug 2021 7:55AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
airsail said..
I'm enjoying this thread, the crap pushed by the antivax few is quite irrelevant to me as I choose to be fully vaxed. But it's good reading the arguments for and against in the past few weeks.

It seems the antivax community is getting more desperate to get their message out, walls of text that most of us won't bother with. And social media is clamping down too, some a resorting to mailbox drops.

Good luck in your chosen paths, will be interesting to see who is still here in 12 months time, maybe Kiteboy and Japie will be alone.

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-27/coronacheck-school-student-vaccination-misinformation/100410132



Of course you won't bother reading it.
You obviously don't want to read a well written discussion, with legitimate links, that may cause you to question the decision you made to be part of the experiment.

P.S. - you're not 'fully vaxxed' and you won't ever be till you get the booster shot, then the one after that, then the one after that...

Enjoy keeping your 6 month travel passport valid with your 4 monthly booster shots.

kiterboy
2614 posts
27 Aug 2021 7:59AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
lotofwind said..

airsail said..
Good luck in your chosen paths, will be interesting to see who is still here in 12 months time, maybe Kiteboy and Japie will be alone.



Maybe you are right, it will be up to kitekid and japie to breed and repopulate the world.


Possibly, but a world populated with our inbred, malformed offspring would still be more intelligent than you.

lotofwind
NSW, 6451 posts
27 Aug 2021 10:01AM
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Select to expand quote
japie said.
Funny you should ask that. One of the blokes I kite with is a nurse at Coffs.

He was given a script for ivermectin. Refuses to be jabbed.

She is my daughter in law. She's well read, supportive and not vaccinated. Travelled extensively. Knows that ivermectin is available over the counter in more countries than it's not.
You're vertically challenged aren't you. Took a little while to put my finger on it?

NSW mandates COVID-19 vaccines for healthcare workers | HRD Australia (hcamag.com)

All healthcare workers in New South Wales are now required to get vaccinated against COVID-19, becoming the first Australian state to implement such mandate. In a new public health order, Health Minister Brad Hazzard said that healthcare workers should receive their first dose by September 30, and then be fully vaccinated by November 30.

Those who fail to present proof of vaccination to their employers will be "excluded from the workplace," according to the order, though exemptions can be made for those with medical contraindications.

This was posted today, is your daughter in-law and male nurse friend going to get it now or quit?

psychojoe
WA, 2239 posts
27 Aug 2021 8:05AM
Thumbs Up

Wow, that escalated quickly.
The numbers on either side of the debate were never so high as to make a noticeable difference but suddenly one in four forum users will be dead from complications of a virus/vaccine by next year.
OK...

Pugwash
WA, 7729 posts
27 Aug 2021 8:05AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
kiterboy said..

lotofwind said..


airsail said..
Good luck in your chosen paths, will be interesting to see who is still here in 12 months time, maybe Kiteboy and Japie will be alone.




Maybe you are right, it will be up to kitekid and japie to breed and repopulate the world.



Possibly, but a world populated with our inbred, malformed offspring would still be more intelligent than you.


The fact that you posted this is enough evidence that this statement is wrong.

TonyAbbott
924 posts
27 Aug 2021 8:13AM
Thumbs Up

High proportion of part-time actors affected by covid in Australia ... stay safe





airsail
QLD, 1565 posts
27 Aug 2021 10:16AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
kiterboy said..


airsail said..
I'm enjoying this thread, the crap pushed by the antivax few is quite irrelevant to me as I choose to be fully vaxed. But it's good reading the arguments for and against in the past few weeks.

It seems the antivax community is getting more desperate to get their message out, walls of text that most of us won't bother with. And social media is clamping down too, some a resorting to mailbox drops.

Good luck in your chosen paths, will be interesting to see who is still here in 12 months time, maybe Kiteboy and Japie will be alone.

www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-27/coronacheck-school-student-vaccination-misinformation/100410132





Of course you won't bother reading it.
You obviously don't want to read a well written discussion, with legitimate links, that may cause you to question the decision you made to be part of the experiment.

P.S. - you're not 'fully vaxxed' and you won't ever be till you get the booster shot, then the one after that, then the one after that...

Enjoy keeping your 6 month travel passport valid with your 4 monthly booster shots.



I have my flu vaccination every year, even paid for by my employer, I see no difference with the Covid 19 vaccine. Whether it is either annual or biannual I'm happy to have it and will be first in line. I'm well paid, a great quality of life and intend to keep it that way.



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"Vaccine who has it who hasn't who won't?" started by Razzonater