Select to expand quoteKierannq said..
my daughter goes to private school, we pay the top amount due to my income, we get nothing back from anyone or any govt dept.
You may not "get" anything back in your pocket, but our taxes are subsidising your choices.
Even when private schools are building equestrian centres, rowing complexes and heated indoor swimming pools and posting net profit after tax, we are still subsidising them.
In fact, some of the richest schools in Australia like Haileybury and Geelong Grammar post some of the healthiest bank balances even after massive and lavish capital works projects.
I think it's disgusting and we should revert to the UK model. You choose to go private - you pay 100%.
If you choose to drive a car instead of public transport, you pay 100%. It should be the same with a private education choice.
Select to expand quoteBonominator said..
If you choose to drive a car instead of public transport, you pay 100%. It should be the same with a private education choice.
That's not correct. The public purse has contributed to the infrastructure and services that enable you to drive your private car. There's clearly an argument for giving a level of funding to all students (not necessarily equal amounts) and then allowing citizens to "top up" with their own funds, e.g. private school, in the same way as you can send your child to a state school and then "top up" by employing a tutor at home after regular school hours.
BTW, I support the notion of 100% private funding for 100% private schooling.
Just to be clear the extra facilities enjoyed by some private schools are not taxpayer funded.
They are either donated by old boys (giving back to the school) or the result of tireless fundraising by parents on P&F committees. Some of the private schools in QLD with the best facilities are also servicing some pretty big loans with constant fundraising. I wouldn't have thought there was anything stopping the state school P&f's from fund raising to provide extra facilities.
I think Australian children should be funded dollar for dollar by the government for education.
If the government were to stop funding private schools their fees would go up significantly resulting in a mass exiting of kids from private schools to the state system which simply couldn't cope.
If you want a shock have a look at the sums of money bequeathed to tier 1 universities.
Select to expand quoteMain said..
I wouldn't have thought there was anything stopping the state school P&f's from fund raising to provide extra facilities.
True true. Why don't the parents stop being so poor?
To be fair it might be because they live in poor suburbs, which begs the question why not just move to a richer suburb?! Like, why would you chose to live in a townhouse for example?
My parents helped us buy a property in Sydney in the late 90's, which we promptly paid off, used that to buy some investment properties and now that money goes toward the childrens' private schools, overseas excursions, horses and the like. I guess I'm just thankful my parents didn't choose to be poor and passed that wisdom onto me. I'll be passing it onto my children too.
Select to expand quoteflanagaj said..
If you go down the private eduction route in Australia, do you receive any type of tax rebate, or is it like the UK model where private eduction is your choice and although you are taking the weight off the state education system, you don't get any rebate back for it?
Thanks
Has anyone actually answered the question? 
No. The reason being the education system gives money to every school for every child.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said...Main said..
I wouldn't have thought there was anything stopping the state school P&f's from fund raising to provide extra facilities.
True true. Why don't the parents stop being so poor?
To be fair it might be because they live in poor suburbs, which begs the question why not just move to a richer suburb?! Like, why would you chose to live in a townhouse for example?
State school parents are too poor to fundraise !?!?
What a crock...
Select to expand quote
State school parents are too poor to fundraise !?!?
What a crock...
Yes and no, as a crude generalisation government schools dont have a rich community to raise funds from. Nor do they have developed and prestigious 'old boys clubs' etc and government schools cant register as charities therebye complicating donations that may be swayed by tax free status. All that said, all government schools fundraise to an extent.
Select to expand quoteCal said..
State school parents are too poor to fundraise !?!?
What a crock...
Yes and no, as a crude generalisation government schools dont have a rich community to raise funds from. Nor do they have developed and prestigious 'old boys clubs' etc and government schools cant register as charities therebye complicating donations that may be swayed by tax free status. All that said, all government schools fundraise to an extent.
yes they do by charging $80 for a school shirt,$15 for socks ,$another $80 for shorts...Then the uniform has been changed three time in the last four years... I could not believe my eyes. I think a uniform is great,it brings a culture for a school. The school I went to we were proud to wear ours. This is just trying to squeeze the poor kids out and help their cause to be lifted to a select school. So from my understanding of what this school is saying,is that poor kids are dumb
Clearly your unhappy with a specific situation crispy, sorry to hear that and I hope your analysis isnt completely accurate. I also hope that isnt indicative of the normal happenings at any scale, local or nationally.
Select to expand quoteCal said..
Clearly your unhappy with a specific situation crispy, sorry to hear that and I hope your analysis isnt completely accurate. I also hope that isnt indicative of the normal happenings at any scale, local or nationally.
I just don't agree when I see some of my groms mates being told to go home because they have last years uniform as they cannot afford this years. They are polite and great kids. Kids im glad my son can call a friend.
So a class war begins and children are made to feel uncomfortable. Uniforms are supposed to make children become equals...but come on $80 for a shirt,ffs sake I would want it to be Egyptian cotton for that price.
Select to expand quotechrispy said..Cal said..
Clearly your unhappy with a specific situation crispy, sorry to hear that and I hope your analysis isnt completely accurate. I also hope that isnt indicative of the normal happenings at any scale, local or nationally.
I just don't agree when I see some of my groms mates being told to go home because they have last years uniform as they cannot afford this years. They are polite and great kids. Kids im glad my son can call a friend.
So a class war begins and children are made to feel uncomfortable. Uniforms are supposed to make children become equals...but come on $80 for a shirt,ffs sake I would want it to be Egyptian cotton for that price.
Yeah, that stuff's bad, but I think it must be that school. I am not sure if they can really force you to wear a particular uniform, especially if you argue you can't afford it. I would hope a strong parent would be able to talk to the school and sort it out.
My parents couldn't afford to pay for us to go on a lot of school excursions, and in the same sort of way as the uniform example, the teachers used to blame me for not being able to afford to go. So, I guess it comes down to idiotic individuals (teachers or principals) that make this sort of thing a problem, not the public system as such. At least I hope that is the case!
Select to expand quotechrispy said..flanagaj said..
Holy sh!t. I stirred a hornets nest with that post!
private schools and tax breaks...you are unemployed and about to exit the country. something smells
I am not in the country. That's the problem. Still here in London
Select to expand quoteCal said...
State school parents are too poor to fundraise !?!?
What a crock...
Yes and no, as a crude generalisation government schools dont have a rich community to raise funds from. Nor do they have developed and prestigious 'old boys clubs' etc and government schools cant register as charities therebye complicating donations that may be swayed by tax free status. All that said, all government schools fundraise to an extent.
Funnily enough the richest are often the hardest to get to donate. One bloke in particular who brags he has US$1B sitting in cash offshore is so stingey he's embarrassing. and some of the most generous are middle class working mums and dads who want their kids to get the best facilities.
I think state money should only go to state schools, if you want a private education you still can but that's your choice
Select to expand quoteMain said..
^^ Irrespective of all the problems that will cause?
Wouldn't the money that now goes to private schools then flow to public schools?
So, on balance, more money would be spent on public schools, and there will still be kids that go to private schools regardless.
So, the funding for public schools will be better than ever before and less people will opt out. Those that do were going to do it anyway.
All up, it sounds like a great idea. Thanks for suggesting it!
No
The fees in private schools would double and people would leave them in their droves.
The state schools would be overflowing and the private schools would be half empty.
Select to expand quoteMain said..
No
The fees in private schools would double and people would leave them in their droves.
The state schools would be overflowing and the private schools would be half empty.
So the private schools would truly be elite then, and those parents would love that.
. The parents I went to school with would never send their kids to public schools no matter what it cost. Geez they resented us getting scholarships. Pretty funny considering their cupboards would have been empty without it
Select to expand quoteMain said..
No
The fees in private schools would double and people would leave them in their droves.
The state schools would be overflowing and the private schools would be half empty.
How could the state schools be overflowing? With all that money coming in, they would expand and perhaps get bigger locations. With bigger local schools you get more teachers and more subjects, and more economies of scale.
They don't just start gold plating the toilet cubicles. They build bigger schools, get demountables in as a temporary measure, employ more teachers, get a better range of subjects.
As a net result, the quality of teaching available in state schools would get better. There would still be crap teachers and crap students, but these would be at the lower level, so anyone striving for results is not going to see them.
Is it a bad thing if people leave private schools in droves? Why? Why should anyone care if they are half empty? FWIW you can't really have both. If the private schools are increasing their fees, AND are half empty, they will either reduce their fees to what the market will pay, or they will reduce their size. (They even teach Economics in State schools!)
From what I see, people go there because they are scared of state schools and see no alternative. If the state schools get better funding, then they will be better.
The 'elite' private schools would barely be affected.
The middle range and low fee private schools would have to ramp up their fees a lot and some or many would fold
It would result in a big influx of 'quality' families and teachers into the public system with little to no change in the quality of education those kids in private schools are getting now - but it would take God out of the equation.
Select to expand quotetmurray said...
God out of the equation.
Not with the Libs forcing chaplains on any school just wanting to offer some councelling.
That funding is an operational expense. ie to run the schools.
The capital cost to buy more land and build more classrooms needs to be factored in.
I think you'd be surprised how many people make large sacrifices to send their kids to an elite private school. I know many!! If the fees were to go up 50% they'd have to move
Select to expand quoteMain said..
That funding is an operational expense. ie to run the schools.
The capital cost to buy more land and build more classrooms needs to be factored in.
I think you'd be surprised how many people make large sacrifices to send their kids to an elite private school. I know many!! If the fees were to go up 50% they'd have to move
not if they the private schools folded. the land alone is worth billions. So it will not happen....
as I said previously , you know the 50% that would not pay ,well I went to the school where the parents of the other 50% would take up the slack....oh and they would be so very happy.
We the private schools can adjust their expenditure according to their incomes just like the state schools or maybe just close the school, sell of the land and the kids can go to another school, again just like the state schools
I send my kids to private school five of them its been a struggle to afford it and its just the local catholic school in a low socio economic area of logan in Brisbane hardly an elite school.
Some of the comments about rich people exploiting state money at the expense of the poor give me the craps. First I contribute tax the same as anyone else why should my kids be denied their share of government funding for their education .
Second if i took them out of private and put them in public it would save me about 15k a year but probably cost the government an similar amount. How would that help the country or kids in public school. All it would do is make the existing finite money get spread among more kids meaning less for all.
Financially I would be better off because I would take more off the government but the really stupid thing is that the lefty ideological would see that as beneficial for the country. I dont understand that thinking. Less money in tje system means less money for all.
Cammd, you dont seem to understand how the funding currently works. Dont worry, not many do including me to an extent. But, if you moved your kids to state school, the government funding moves too.
Sure i get that but at a private school the goverment contibutes less to my kids education than if they were public.
If we accept that it is the government's responsibility to provide free education I effectively subsidise the government by sending them to a private school.
Again cammd, not quite true. Read the Gonski review and you might not feel like youre subsidising anything.
